CW9 carry with one the chamber??

[Arkansasboy]

Does anybody carry with 1 in the tube?...i carry my CW9 everyday all-day and im still not really comfortable with condition 1....any thoughts, storys, experiance.....ETC.....

Thanx
Justin

[jocko]

Does anybody carry with 1 in the tube?...i carry my CW9 everyday all-day and im still not really comfortable with condition 1....any thoughts, storys, experiance.....ETC.....

Thanx
Justin

ur decision, not ours to make for you, but my feelings are this, if you bought a gun to carry for protection, then for Gods sakes carry it loaded , or leave it at home. that CW9 is as safe as any semi made, never been a drop fire EVER.

[oldtex]

Does anybody carry with 1 in the tube?...i carry my CW9 everyday all-day and im still not really comfortable with condition 1....any thoughts, storys, experiance.....ETC.....

Thanx
Justin

Justin, IMO there are several things to think about here.

First, IMO, a handgun if carried for the purpose of defense must be immediately capable of being brought into action with only one hand available; in other words if you have to use two hands to bring your handgun to bear then that's a serious possibly life-threatening handicap. What if your other hand is injured, or you're using it to fend off a close-range attack or to push a loved one out of harm's way? The time necessary to rack the slide in a fight is something which would delay you bringing the gun to bear even if only for a second or so; this time could be critical. There's also the possibility of a failure to feed while you're racking the slide. Under the extreme stress of a fight, one could even forget to rack the slide. IMO there are just too many drawbacks with carrying empty-chambered. If these points aren't compelling, then I recommend that you take a force-on-force class and try the empty-chamber technique during that class.

Secondly, the Kahr has a device built-in to prevent it from firing if dropped.

Third, how are you carrying? If you're carrying in a pocket holster and the holster is properly designed and made, then it should prevent the trigger from being pulled inadvertently while the gun is in your pocket. If you're carrying in a pocket but without a holster then I'd get a good pocket holster as soon as possible. I would not carry with a round in the chamber unholstered; I consider this very dangerous. If you're carrying IWB then a good IWB holster would protect the trigger while the pistol is actually in the holster, but not while holstering. That's up to you to slowly and safely reholster.

Fourth, some folks just can't ever become comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber. If that's true in your case, then would you be more comfortable carrying a revolver? If so, that would be my recommendation.

I never ever carry without having a round in the chamber. I carry Glocks IWB in a Raven Concealment Kydex holster or in a Bianchi fanny pack. (My Glocks all have the Cominolli aftermarket thumb safety installed). I carry S&W j-frame revolvers in pocket holsters(DeSantis or Bianchi), and when I carry my PM9 I carry it in a pocket holster as well(DeSantis).

[Arkansasboy]

I have a galco leather holster IWB and will soon have a supertuck. If the kahr really does have a mechanism to prevent it from firing when dropped, that makes me feel better, plus the holster does cover the trigger completly so i probly shouldnt worry too much.

[oldtex]

I have a galco leather holster IWB and will soon have a supertuck. If the kahr really does have a mechanism to prevent it from firing when dropped, that makes me feel better, plus the holster does cover the trigger completly so i probly shouldnt worry too much.

Drop Testing Result of H.P. WHITE LABORATORY, INC. (http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_hp_0400.html)

Above link is to a site showing results of drop tests done by HP White

[wyntrout]

Arkansasboy, here is a link to independent drop testing of Kahrs This info can be found in the archives of reviews on the Kahr Site. I think that it was from the 1999 Archives, but there may be others. I just looked at the first few years.

Drop Testing Result of H.P. WHITE LABORATORY, INC. (http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_hp_0300.html)

<<Oldtex, I see that you got this link in while I was getting carried away here>>

Kahr guns can only fire if the trigger is pulled full cycle. That's plenty of safety for me. I like the example of a knife threat. Your pistol is just a paperweight or ROCK if it ain't loaded, and that means one in the tube ready to fire. If you're up close and personal in a "knife" fight -- 'cause you didn't quite bring a "gun", you're in a world of hurt. One slash and maybe you don't have the capability to rack the slide... ever!

It's something to think about. The first thing you should think about, and probably the most important, is whether or not you can shoot someone... for any reason. If you wait until the last instant with indecision and hesitate, you might not have another chance to think about anything.

Carrying for self-defense is serious business and you need to be prepared mentally as well as physically to use deadly force. When and if you need to fire in self defense, you shoot to disable the assailant(s), to render them incapable of further threat to you or others. That usually means two or three rapid shots to center of mass, and then head shots if the assailant is still closing on you. A head shot defeats any armor and turns even drug-crazed wackos off... and Zombies, too!

You need to think about countering attacks -- what you would have to do in different situations... all of the time. You need situational awareness and watch out for developing situations. I think that too many people just strap on a gun and that's it. It takes practice at the range shooting and handling the weapon, especially reloading -- dropping and inserting magazines rapidly.

It takes at least some thought about possible scenarios and how to counter threats. It's hard to practice without real stress for situations, but having a plan -- having thought out what to do, over and over and over... just mental practice -- can be a big help.
I'm no expert, but I've been around a bit and I read a lot. I certainly think about actions and reactions all of the time and I try to stay aware of my surroundings.
Wynn

[Raoul]

Try the search function.

http://kahrtalk.com/ccw-tactics-training/685-one-pipe-not.html

[Arkansasboy]

Well, i dont just strap on a gun and think all is well...I am active duty military and ive had training numerous times not to mention numerous trips to the range. I guess my concern was the whole drop factor.

[wyntrout]

No offense meant, Arkansasboy. I'm retired USAF -- enlisted 1964-1968 and 1972-1988 commissioned. I "saw" combat... some pretty close, but never fired at anyone... 'cause they were not close enough and M-60 in the tower above me wasn't firing. I did have a ring-side seat for the ongoing action there on the southern perimeter of Da Nang AB on the morning of the first Tet Offensive, though. I wish I'd had my movie camera then. Subsequent TDYs weren't nearly as exciting.
I've had lots of discussions about shooting at someone for real... like in combat. It's amazing how many AF desk jockeys thought they were trained to kill. Paper targets can't shoot back and you have all the time you need to aim and fire... at the bullseye.
And by the way. THANKS for your service. Not enough people know the sacrifices our armed forces make... AND that blank check you signed... for up to and including your life. My wife is retired USAF as well, but had to go back to work while I take care of the house, etc. She's 10 years younger and her training and degrees translate over to civilian jobs.:)

[rickmn50]

Does anybody carry with 1 in the tube?...i carry my CW9 everyday all-day and im still not really comfortable with condition 1....any thoughts, storys, experiance.....ETC.....

Thanx
Justin

Without question...especially for a single stack magazine...one in the tube for sure. If you run into trouble you will not have time to cycle a round.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bawanna]

Nothing to say that hasn't been said. Feed the tube.

[atypicalparkie]

Hi all- woo, my 1st post here on kahrtalk. I bought my cw9 about 2 months ago. I actually carry it with one CCI 'snake shot' round in the chamber, and 'real' loads fill the rest of the magazine and all of my back-up magazine. And I've tested this set-up a whole bunch of times (± 25 magazines full with the 1st being the snake shot), it has ALWAYS cycled to the next 'real' rounds without problem. Every single time. And on the one occasion I loaded a magazine with only snake-shot rounds, the cw9 happily cycled all the way through perfectly...

BUT I didn't attempt this arrangement until I'd put about 500 'real' rounds through it. Surprised the heck out of me that it does cycle to the next round just fine, but it does! (note though that I've ONLY done this with my cw9). You might want to try this out in yours.

I do this on the advice of local LEOs, their thoughts being that God forbid I need to fire on a BG, 1) many baddies flee at the sight of a citizen pulling out a gun at all; 2) the flash-bang of ANY ammo scares off many more; 3) an errant shot would be much less risky to bystanders; and 4) juries would be a lot more sympathetic to an armed citizen who'd intentionally loaded a 'less-lethal' round in the chamber for a 1st shot... even if that citizen then needed to empty their full magazine to neutralize a threat...

Of course, I'm open to others opinions on this! And for sure, those plastic-tipped snake shot rounds are fragile-- they don't like to be unloaded/reloaded into magazines 'cos they can easily break... what do others think of this set-up? I'm a total noob here so I won't be offended at any replies :)

[wyntrout]

If you're hiking and really worried about snakes, that set up might work for you. But if you're more likely to encounter something larger, you should be using a serious load... a good high-performance, defensive hollow point-type round. The snake shot is just that... something to give you a better chance of hitting and stopping a snake.
If an LEO told you to use that in a handgun, it's the first instance I've ever heard, and contrary to any serious defensive training courses. Most advise two shots center of mass(at least) and then a head shot if the bad guy is still advancing. This is done quickly, not "bang," look and see if the BG dropped, repeat as necessary, because it's not like in the old movies where the BG grabs his chest and falls down dead. The human body and most dangerous predators can be mortally wounded but live long enough to kill you. The idea is to immediately incapacitate, not scare off, and often this means seriously attempting to kill the person or animal attacking you... scaring or wounding may just make them angrier and more determined to kill you. If you drew your weapon and decided you need to fire, you don't wait to see if the BG or predator changed his mind and runs after ONE "warning shot". Warning shots are illegal here in Florida and possibly most places, though I might try firing a warning shot to scare off a large predator that WASN"T charging me at full speed... being worried about wounding a grizzly or lion, or something of that kind that a small handgun might not stop, anyhow.

I would be more concerned about living through a deadly encounter than looking appealing to a jury.

Please go back to the first post on this thread and read all of the advice and comments. Pretty much everything is covered on this thread.
Wynn:)

I don't know if the CW9 is any better at ejecting live CCI shot cartridges, but my K9 jammed every time I tried, so I would only use that stuff if I were hunting snakes. I think the overall length of the case and plastic shot capsule is too long for the ejection port.

[kramm]

:2rolleyes:Well Arkansasboy, what did you decide to do?

[jlottmc]

I gotta to agree with Wynn, snake shot only for no shouldered critters, maybe a grouse if the situation was just right, but I still wouldn't load it for that. I used to work for Dallas, and carried a load alternated for dogs (hardball, no need to waste a good hollow point), but always carry two reloads.

[O'Dell]

No offense meant, Arkansasboy. I'm retired USAF -- enlisted 1964-1968 and 1972-1988 commissioned. I "saw" combat... some pretty close, but never fired at anyone... 'cause they were not close enough and M-60 in the tower above me wasn't firing. I did have a ring-side seat for the ongoing action there on the southern perimeter of Da Nang AB on the morning of the first Tet Offensive, though. I wish I'd had my movie camera then. Subsequent TDYs weren't nearly as exciting.
I've had lots of discussions about shooting at someone for real... like in combat. It's amazing how many AF desk jockeys thought they were trained to kill. Paper targets can't shoot back and you have all the time you need to aim and fire... at the bullseye.
And by the way. THANKS for your service. Not enough people know the sacrifices our armed forces make... AND that blank check you signed... for up to and including your life. My wife is retired USAF as well, but had to go back to work while I take care of the house, etc. She's 10 years younger and her training and degrees translate over to civilian jobs.:)

Hey Wynn. I was there at the same time, but I was flying off the KittyHawk at Yankee Station as a registered member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club. Our first concern at the time of Tet was protecting the Marines at Khe Sanh from being overrun by the NVA. Since ours was a fighter squadron, VF114, this was the only time in my two years over there that I dropped bombs and fired Zuni rockets. I wasn't very good at it, but they never got the base, at least not until 1975.

[wyntrout]

Comment or Post moved to http://kahrtalk.com/general-discussion/3277-war-stories.html#post34224
Wynn:)

[atypicalparkie]

Hey Wynn, JLottmc & all--
advice well taken. I did indeed go back and re-read the thread! And hope I wasn't thread-jacking. Talked to more folks @ the Clackamas Co. sheriff dept./public range today in more depth-- those people agree with your points. And I'm signing up for a few more training courses :) Thanks again!

[wyntrout]

We're here to help and learn ourselves. YOU were on the right thread. :D Some of US, especially me, can get side-tracked, but that's how conversations go.
Practice and training can really help. Shooting your carry weapon lets you learn its capabilities and you improve your shooting skills so that you have a better chance of defending yourself and your family quickly and effectively.
Wynn:)

[jlottmc]

No worries, Wynn has a good point again. Train, and carry the thing like you mean business. We're all in this together.

[jfrey]

I look at it this way - the first time I rack the slide and it jams a bullet on the feed ramp, I'm glad I carry one in the tube.

As far as snakes or other vermin, I use a Taurus Judge for that duty.

[MattTheKnife]

"I look at it this way - the first time I rack the slide and it jams a bullet on the feed ramp, I'm glad I carry one in the tube"

Excellent point!
I've always said if a person doesn't feel comfortable carrying a modern handgun loaded, they need to immediately get rid of it for a safer system - or maybe training.

Yeah, training's good.

And going back to the snake-shot dilemma: your attempt to flee (if possible and safe), verbal commands, and maybe a white light in the eyes are your less-lethal attempts to stop the threat.

[Mits3kgt88]

I had to mentally train myself to carry with one in the chamber. It's the best way to go. You don't want to be in a tense situation and not be able to quickly rack the slide and fix a malfunction if one occurs. I've heard the stories about people shooting themselves in the foot from carrying a handgun with one in the chamber(namely hammerless autopistols) but it's the operator's fault. There's a firing pin block there for safety reasons but stupidity while holstering will not prevent firing. You just need to learn to trust your gun and carefully holster and unholster when drawing.

[jocko]

keep ur finger up ur nose and out of the trggier area and u are safe as pie..

[Bawanna]

Crap Jocko, another one of my personal secrets out of the bag. I ain't tellin you no more stuff or the whole world will know everything I do.
Feel like a live in a glass house. Guess I better find another place for my finger, maybe I can use that place your always tellin me to put stuff.

icck

[atypicalparkie]

"I look at it this way - the first time I rack the slide and it jams a bullet on the feed ramp, I'm glad I carry one in the tube"

Excellent point!
I've always said if a person doesn't feel comfortable carrying a modern handgun loaded, they need to immediately get rid of it for a safer system - or maybe training.

Yeah, training's good.

And going back to the snake-shot dilemma: your attempt to flee (if possible and safe), verbal commands, and maybe a white light in the eyes are your less-lethal attempts to stop the threat.

You all are rad. Good advice, and advice taken. Carried yesterday & today with a 'real' round in the chamber= no worries. The cw being proven safe to carry with one in the tube, I have no hesitation doing so now with an appropriate 'real' round. (as long as I observe the cardinal rules like 'don't put your finger on the $&£% trigger unless you're gonna shoot') I'm glad those rules are ingrained into my subconscious.

And yep, I'll be taking a different additional 2-day training course each of the next 3 months- all signed up! Thanks all. I'm gonna enjoy hanging out here! (....and have been seriously coveting a Taurus Judge for fun in the woods...)

[Bawanna]

I've kind of got a mild hankering for one of them Judges my self. If you run on to one of them buy one, get one free deals, I'm your man!

I got one for my chiefs mother a few months back. She spends alot of time walking in the woods (I think she's a tree hugger) and wanted something mostly for animals that need to be scared away.
Last word I heard she really liked it. She refused all efforts at getting her an auto of any kind. I respect her for that, smart lady I think.

[Squib]

The way I look at it is if you do not have a round chambered, you are not quite armed.

We have discussed this point ad nausiam at the Old Geezers Sporting Club and Shoeshine Parlor. To cut to the chase, we have kinda, sorta determined some folks do not chamber that first round because they may not be ready to put themselves in the position of taking a life. And, when it comes down to it, there is another "safety" procedure between them and a target.

Of course, by then it's too late. If you carry, you have to make that decision prior to walking out the door. It's a straight foward and brutal choice.

[franco45]

I am in agreement with the concensus on this topic. I thought long and hard before I decided to carry. I am a retired juvenile parole officer and observed societal decline over the last 20 years. There are evil people out there who are not afraid to carry "one in the pipe". I do not want to put another step between me and protecting myself and my loved ones.

[recoilguy]

One in the pipe is the way to go. It has been my observation that folks who carry with out one in the pipe want to feel protected, those carrying with one in the tube want to be protected.

Just calling it like I see it. Carrying with a real bullet in the chamber requires that you take extra care.....it a gun you should take extra care.

RCG

[RogerP9fan]

This is precisely why I was practicing with one in the pipe and seven in the mag with my P9. The CCW posture. However, this is the only configuration in which I had trigger reset failures while firing.

I never had any problems when I'd put in a mag with seven rounds, drop the slide and start firing.

Just my .02 It's off to the Mothership I go....

[yqtszhj]

I have a 380 colt govt. model (1911 style) that I was concerned carrying "cocked and locked." Probably just some phobia of mine because that baby has a hair trigger. I practiced carrying one in the chamber w/ hammer half cocked and pulling hammer back when drawing. I could do it but it just didn't feel natural.

So now I carry DAO w/ long trigger, one in the pipe, practice regurarly, and now no worries. Another benefit is it's lighter that that colt. but the colt shoots "GOOD"