Sudden PM9 Problems (Opinions Requested)

[Native]

Just had a minute before I have to go off and do something else and wanted to solicit opinions in the likely event that some of you guys may have an idea that I won't think of regarding a (first) problem with a 3 week old PM9 that has a little over 500 perfect rounds through it under all kinds of conditions. Here's the story:
On round 30 something after a good cleaning I got my first ever (with either of two PM9's I've got) failure to return to battery (by about a quarter inch). Rechambered using slide stop and that round and on subsequent round went bang. Then had to go do some other stuff. Came back with the gun in same condition (didn't do anything to it other than load the magazine) and got four light primer strikes in a row. Had to quit knowing there is a legit problem and am asking for opinions. I won't have time to clean and inspect until later tonight. By that time I figure some of you will have chimed in. I'm suspecting recoil spring and or some crud developed not allowing slide to return fully to battery. On visual and tactile inspection after the first light strike the slide appeared to be all the way home. I didn't give it a bump as I'm trying to diagnose this issue. Thanks in advance. I'll check in later.

[Bawanna]

Too early to need a recoil spring unless it was weak to start with. I suspect your gunked up or questionable ammo theory. A good cleaning and hosing out the striker channel or breaking it down to clean (if your comfy doing that) is always a good start.

[jocko]

I wish u couldhave given that slide a slight bump. it is out of time somewhere, you cleanedit, u lubed it, assuming the ammo is good stuff top, check recoil spring to see that the outter spring is on correct, then retest again. U might have encountered an out of spec triger bar that is just starting to show itself. I agree with bawanna, to early for something tobe wrong with the recoil springs but if it persists,I would give kahr a call an d see if they would send you a new set to retest. One never knows, u could have a very weak outter recoil spring and even though it looks to be in full battery it just might not be.If the new recoil assembly does not work, then IMO it might need to go back. check the chamber to see if a good polishing might not be in order, anything to ensure smoother feeding, helps to get to full battery also.

[Native]

Thanks for the quick replies. Here's a quick followup. Just to rule out magazine issues I tried it again, still dirty and got clicks with both magazines (very light strikes). I persisted and was able to get two rounds to fire, however, the next round went click. Both times it didn't even "attempt" to eject the casing and it was still in the chamber. Curiouser and curiouser. I think later when I break it down the problem should be obvious with all this going on. Something like a broken recoil spring perhaps? I'll do that after the birddog gets run (priorities). Thanks again.

[jocko]

no way , not a broken recoil spring,, are u sayng it would not eject a fired casing?? or do u mean when it clicked there was still a live round in the chamber andu had to manually eject it??.

Have u cleaned that striker channel ouyt using that cleanout hole in the bottom ofthe slide up by the breech face. A spray nozzle in that hole willblow crapoola out both ends, no oil in there needed, leave it dry. If you have done that already and still gettibnglight strikes, IMO u might have a trigger bar that is out of spec and the gun will need to go back, . a callto kahr and ask for eion or jay anbd state ur issues and what is happening kand what allu have done, ans ask them to issue a pre paid pick up on your gun. If the slide is going completely closed and no taping on the backof the slide is helping it any, then it is out of time some where. . I would give that striker channel a good sprqay cleaning thorugh that cleanout hole and then retest andif all that dails, it needs to go back..

[Native]

Thanks Jocko. Right after I typed my last post I took the gun apart to see if anything looked out of sort. Recoil spring(s) look and feel fine. Barrel didn't look particularly gunked up. I dropped a live round into the chamber and it went in fine with the standard amount of slop. I blasted out the striker channel with canned air and put it back together, dirty and tried it again. First round fired second round click. On that squeeze it did click and appeared to be back in battery. I racked the slide and the empty casing was still in there. That happened just before the last post also. So since it went click it had to have cycled and then returned onto the empty casing, correct? I am going to call Ian tomorrow. But, I wonder should I clean this thing up again and try it once more. The one thing I did differently after the last cleaning was clean just the barrel with some break free on about round 20 subsequent to the prior cleaning without breaking the gun down. What are the chances of excess lube crudding up the chamber? I usually wipe that out with a q tip when the gun is broken down but this was just a quick barrel/chamber clean I did for accuracy testing. Thanks again for your responses.

[jocko]

ur saying it fired and it didn;'t eject the casing, check ur extractor, it should take that empty casing out of the chamber when fired. there should be no empty casing in the chamber, if the guh fireds, it should eject , trhere is no way the slide is retracting with an empty casing and then reloading that same empty casing, that just can't happen.

am I getting confused on this maybe???

[Native]

I too am getting confused by this problem. Specifically after the light strikes I kept trying using the slide release to chamber a round. I got three to fire and I wouldn't know by looking if the slide cycled or a round ejected, it's just not what I notice. I then (without so much as changing my grip) pulled or jerked or squeezed the trigger and it made the distinctive click and the tactile sensation was the exact same as dry firing. I expected to have a light primer strike again and when I racked the slide the empty casing from the previous round firing was still there (I can't remember if it ejected by hand but I think so).WTF.
Part 3 (or whatever) I've since given it another full cleaning using the identical methods I always use (Break Free, canned air, q tips) relube where needed with M Pro). I was then (just now) able to go out in the yard and replicate the light primer strikes on 3 more rounds from 3 magazines. This is the same ammo I've been using for about 250 flawless (Fiocchi Extrema). This time (as I always do when it has fired umpteen flawless rounds) I blew out the striker channel and then did it again. The striker is protruding as you'd expect after dry firing. Like I said, very confusing. The gun is now very clean, lubed and still having the same problem so Kahr tec should be able to duplicate it without a problem. I'll be very interested in hearing what they change out, because remember the first sign of trouble was a failure to return to battery by about a quarter inch though the round "fed fine" from the magazine, near as I can tell. Thanks again for the help. I'm kind of happy in an odd sort of way that it wasn't just a one off ftrtb or light strike. At least now I know it is a significant problem and I'm sure they'll make it right. That platform has treated me (and plenty of other people) too well do be an inherent PM9 issue. Thanks again.

[Native]

Got it. Should be fine now. Not the gun or ammo. 100% operator error. Thanks for the help.

[Rainman48314]

Got it. Should be fine now. Not the gun or ammo. 100% operator error. Thanks for the help.
Now I'm confused or missed a post. What was the error?

[jocko]

Got it. Should be fine now. Not the gun or ammo. 100% operator error. Thanks for the help.

I give up, what was the operator error?????:banplease: Help us out here, so mayhbe we can help another out down the road. We have to share our tributes and trials..

[Native]

I had to shoot it again and figure out how to word this after I calmed down. The gun is still the same flawless PM9. They say The Lord looks after fools and drunks. Well I don't know about the latter but I was certainly the former. When I came in to get a new box of shells (I know: cartridges) yesterday right before the gun started acting up I picked up my only box of Fiocchi Extrema .380 ACP. I usually put on my glasses and check because I'm shooting 115 grain through this PM9 and shoot 124 of the same brand out of my other one. This time I just came in and grabbed the box of 115 grain where I swear I had left them. Without my glasses the 3/16" difference didn't appear to me. It wasn't till I slowed down and started thinking that I figured it out. Sure enough, upon further review, I was trying to shoot .380 Extrema (that looks identical only shorter) out of a 9. DUH. Gotta wonder how I've managed to spend nearly half a century on this planet with all my limbs and eyes. After I quit beating myself up I thanked God. Since 2 or three of them had gone bang (yes it's possible no matter what anyone says) I was concerned about pressure and gave the gun a thorough once over under my fly tying magnifier, put my woodhooking chainsaw gear on and gave it a magazine for function testing. Then shot another 68 for a total of 75 flawless. No function or accuracy problems encountered at all. So from this Darwin award winner that didn't get any sleep last night because of it I recommend that you don't ever ever try this at home. Thanks for all the help, I'm off to the eye doctor, maybe neurologist too.

[jocko]

super, takes a good man to admit this to us, so my hat is off to you. Mistakes are often made, admitting to them is not often done.

glad the PM9 is doing what it is designed to do.

Probably a good eye doctor is not a bad idea!!!!!

[DriveMyKahr]

Native,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I frequently shoot my son's Beretta Cheetah .380 at the (dimly lit) indoor range. I have often wondered what would happen if I accidentally loaded my PM9 magazine with his ammo. Now I know. Don't beat yourself up over as easy oversight. You made it through the experience and have helped countless others who like you and I will now break out the reading glasses when loading their magazines. Cheers!

[tsisco]

I am right now having almost the same issues (FTF, not going into battery, etc) with my PM 9 after 500 rds and I haven't been able to contact Kahr service yet. I'm thinking it is a recoil spring assy problem but I'm not sure.

[jocko]

that would be the first thing to try. Let another shooter shoot ur PM9, if he can duplicate the issues u are having then you know it is gun related "somewhere". If not then u know it is shooter related. U gotta start somewhere in eliminating the possabilities and shooter error is certainly in that list of "possables".

ur new here, have u visited the kaht tech section ahd hit on two good sticky's that just might be of some help.

#1 kahr lube chart

#2 propper prepping of ur new kahr.