Is it OK to remove the LCI for the P380?

[RenegadeRebel]

Hello all, I live in stupid Kalifornia, and I had to pay a couple extra pretty pennies to have a "safe" P380 here.

The magazine disconnect was the biggest turn off to me. I could not even dry fire my new baby without a mag inserted. That got to be a pain in the ass real quick, as the slide would always lock back when I cocked the gun. Not to mention I think that feature can be dangerous, as I might need to execute a mid-fight reload, and if I have one in the chamber, it would be scary to know I couldn't use it.

So the first thing I did was completely disassemble the entire gun, and made the necessary cuts with my trusty Dremel to disable it. Boy putting that thing back together was tedious; especially since there are no guides that I know of. Figured it out ricky-tick though and now she will fire with no mag! :D

Now I want that pesky loaded chamber indicator gone. That feature doesn't bother me too much, as it is nice to be able to quickly ascertain whether the gun is hot or cold...but still, when it is up, it gets in the way of my front post, and more importantly, I'm having problems with stove pipes. I think the way the LCI works, it is interfering with the case when it ejects. I'm also having a problem with the gun going into battery, and I can visually see that the LCI is getting in the way of the rim. I was wondering if I could shave the part of the LCI that touches the case all the way off, rendering it inert.

Will that hurt the function of my firearm though??

Thanks for all the help everyone, this site is a great resource!

[CJB]

The spring tension on the LCI should be very low. I dont think it would hamper things.

Do this - remove it. Just take it out. Now test the gun. You'll know plenty soon enough if the LCI is causing problems, and can deal accordingly. If you're gonna mess with it.... you probably want to alter it where it touches the rim. I dont think you're gonna have to. That type of LCI is not a Kahr invention, and has worked really well for others in the past.

[MW surveyor]

Not sure of the gun laws in CA regarding modifications to guns that have to be sold with required devices. Just remember that any modifications that you do, could put you in serious jeopardy with the laws if you use the gun in a self defense shooting.

JM2c YMMV

[wongman1]

"might need to execute a mid-fight reload, and if I have one in the chamber, it would be scary to know I couldn't use it."


I also recently aquired the CA P380.

If you have a round in the chamber and load a new mag, you can still fire that round. But the slide will lock back after you fire the one in the chamber and you will need to drop the slide to load the next round from that fresh mag. Ive tested this a couple of times down range.

Does your mod change that?

I didnt have a prob with the lci getting in the way of the site pic. What I do mind is that because of the lci, there are currently no night sites available for the P380. This is due to the rear site not being tall enough to clear the lci.

Kahr say Trijicon should have a set of night sites in a month. Unfortunately, I want the XS Big Dots... XS says they are waiting for a sample gun from Kahr. Kahr says they are trying to fill the demand. I guess paying customers before mfg's.

With 200 rds so far, Im pleased with the performance of this gun. But it will be a few hundred more before I feel its reliable.....

[RenegadeRebel]

CJB, I think that is a great idea. I will remove it and do some test firing. I assume you just punch out the roll pin at the top of the slide, correct?

MW; CA law requires the gun to be imported in the "safe" configuration; however, there is no law saying it has to be kept in original condition. You can modify as you see fit with no legal issues at all.

Wongman, that is very strange indeed! I never knew that was a feature of CA P380's. I will have to test that out and see if mine does the same thing. I cant see how the mag disconnect would effect the slide lock. If you see how the mechanism works, it seems almost impossible (its basically a small metal tab under spring pressure that comes into contact with the top of the magazine; when the mag is removed, the tab allows the trigger bar to drop, disconnecting it with the sear). I suspect your ammo with a topped off magazine is hitting your slide release and forcing the lock. It is a common problem with many other P380's, CA version or not.

[dannyeller]

I firmly believe in the "for each their own". But for the life of me I can't see the wisdom in the hatred for mag disconnect safeties. I was in the military for 25 years and in law enforcement for five and still would be in law enforcement if it were not for the 20 plus years of jumping out of airplanes (body parts no longer agree with fight'n drunks). This in addition to 20 some years of competitive shooting of some kind. In all that time almost ALL, I say again almost "ALL" accidental/negligent discharges (ADs/NDs) with some causing either life altering injuries and some deaths were the sole result of the shooter taking the magazine out of the pistol after racking the slide (or not racking the slide at all) and then either shooting themselves or someone else by accident. Even when no one was injured the ramifications were usually career altering to say the least. A simple mag disconnect safety would have prevent each and every one of them. Such things as Loaded Chamber Indicators (LCI) (an external extractor works as one anyway) and mandatory safeties on double action types of firearms are mandated by people who do not know what they are doing. But the mag safeties are a good thing. I would pay $50 to $75 right now to have one installed on all three of my Glocks and both of my Kahrs now if they were available.

I never recommend semi-autos for use by women. Not that some can't use them to great effect but MOST women have trouble racking the slide. especially .380s and smaller calibers. Since most of them work on a blow back type action they have must heavier recoil springs than even a .45. They can do things like cocking the hammer if the pistol has one before trying the rack the slide but remember these things are to be used in a time of stress. At least if a woman or a weak wrist-ed male (could be due to an injury or age related illness and not to the lack of testosterone) can make a semi-auto ready in a non-stressed environment and then just take out the magazine to render the gun safe. They could then just insert the mag to make the gun ready just as fast if not faster than racking a pump shotgun.

The only magazine disconnect I've every had an issue with was on a Brit colleague's Highpower when we were working together in Iraq. That particular mag disconnect safety would prevent the magazine from falling out of the weapon during a quick reload and you had to stick your finger way up the magwell to push a protruding button before you could drop the hammer. Which was required as part of a weapons clearing procedure before entering certain areas.

The reasons given just do not make since to me. If I am holding someone at gunpoint unless the slide is locked back the last thing I'm going to do is a reload. Just don't see it... And the wisdom of being able to use the pistol as a magazineless single shot just does not make up for the overwhelming number of ADs and NDs that occur with semi-auto handguns, period. Each one of those ADs and NDs is just another arrow in the quiver of those socialist, Godless bastards that want to take our firearms away.

But if you have bought it then I have no problem with you disabling it for your use. But be warned... You have... say again.... YOU HAVE sharpened the very blade those socialist, Godless bastards mentioned earlier are gong to use to cut your heart out, even if your shooting incident is 100% justified.

[wongman1]

I suspect your ammo with a topped off magazine is hitting your slide release and forcing the lock. It is a common problem with many other P380's, CA version or not


Im fairly new to firearms and really new to the P380. I used WWB for the 200 rd break in. I did not have any failure to lock back on last round. I did do the check for the little slide release tab hitting the bullet on top of the mag as per the sticky. It was just barely touching.

I was able to reproduce that particular scenerio by:
1. Loading the chamber via a mag and dropping the slide with the slide release.
2. Drop the magazine
3. Load a new full mag.
4. Shot the round in the chamber, which would lock the slide back.
5. Drop the slide via slide release and continue shooting away

I did this 3 times during my break in period. Albiet all with WWB fmj. Once again, I did not have any other failures to lock back.

I will try different ammo, maybe some HP, where the bullet doesnt touch the slide release. My glock doesnt behave this way. So, I may need to shave that little tip off the slide release. I really dont know if this is normal behavior with the CA additions or not. Maybe a call to Kahr on Tues will clear all that up...

[RenegadeRebel]

Yes if you could call and get a for sure answer then that would be best...That is too weird though...

Now that you mention it, when I did my break in, I loaded the chamber several times with the same method you did above. I wanted to simulate a 6 +1 gun because thats how I would carry it. Not once did it do what your gun did. I am pretty sure its your ammo, but I cant say for certain.

BTW that was before I did the disconnect modification. I have not shot the modified gun yet...

Let us know when you figure it out...

[RenegadeRebel]

Danny, I replied to your message in your other thread. Funny enough, I seen your other thread before your message in this one...I can say that we are night and day on this issue though...

[jocko]

Im fairly new to firearms and really new to the P380. I used WWB for the 200 rd break in. I did not have any failure to lock back on last round. I did do the check for the little slide release tab hitting the bullet on top of the mag as per the sticky. It was just barely touching.

I was able to reproduce that particular scenerio by:
1. Loading the chamber via a mag and dropping the slide with the slide release.
2. Drop the magazine
3. Load a new full mag.
4. Shot the round in the chamber, which would lock the slide back.
5. Drop the slide via slide release and continue shooting away

I did this 3 times during my break in period. Albiet all with WWB fmj. Once again, I did not have any other failures to lock back.

I will try different ammo, maybe some HP, where the bullet doesnt touch the slide release. My glock doesnt behave this way. So, I may need to shave that little tip off the slide release. I really dont know if this is normal behavior with the CA additions or not. Maybe a call to Kahr on Tues will clear all that up...

glock is 3x bigger. apples and oranges IMO.

[jocko]

Hello all, I live in stupid Kalifornia, and I had to pay a couple extra pretty pennies to have a "safe" P380 here.

The magazine disconnect was the biggest turn off to me. I could not even dry fire my new baby without a mag inserted. That got to be a pain in the ass real quick, as the slide would always lock back when I cocked the gun. Not to mention I think that feature can be dangerous, as I might need to execute a mid-fight reload, and if I have one in the chamber, it would be scary to know I couldn't use it.

So the first thing I did was completely disassemble the entire gun, and made the necessary cuts with my trusty Dremel to disable it. Boy putting that thing back together was tedious; especially since there are no guides that I know of. Figured it out ricky-tick though and now she will fire with no mag! :D

Now I want that pesky loaded chamber indicator gone. That feature doesn't bother me too much, as it is nice to be able to quickly ascertain whether the gun is hot or cold...but still, when it is up, it gets in the way of my front post, and more importantly, I'm having problems with stove pipes. I think the way the LCI works, it is interfering with the case when it ejects. I'm also having a problem with the gun going into battery, and I can visually see that the LCI is getting in the way of the rim. I was wondering if I could shave the part of the LCI that touches the case all the way off, rendering it inert.

Will that hurt the function of my firearm though??

Thanks for all the help everyone, this site is a great resource!

and this is just my opinion. I would have never touched or modified that gun until it was totally reliable. I can assure u, that cuttng that mag disconnet ad shaving that LCI down will void any warranty if you send that gun back. It just will, Ihave no doubts about that. doesn't matter if u think the ftf are unrelated to what u did, it is what kahr is going to think and tell you, and probably any outher gun maker to.

Not seing how the mag disconnet is in the kahrs, I have no idea as to how to disable them, I would think they sould be able to be taken out withouth a dremel but again I don't know that either. U are the first to have done this mod to the komifrnia P380.

Just my two cents.

On shaving the bottom of the lci, I see no reason why it would effect reliability. I would attach it that way instead of shaving off the top of the lci where it will be seen and will look like sh-t to, and I also think one can replace the lci if needed.

get the gun reliable before going any further, that is the important thing.

Have u visited the kahr tech section ahd hit on the great sticky's

#1 kahr lube chart

#2 Propper prepping of ur new kahr.

u should be able to reset the trigger on a kahr by pulling the slide back about a 1/4" inch therefore eliminating the locking open of the slide for practice purposes..

[RenegadeRebel]

and this is just my opinion. I would have never touched or modified that gun until it was totally reliable. I can assure u, that cuttng that mag disconnet ad shaving that LCI down will void any warranty if you send that gun back. It just will, Ihave no doubts about that. doesn't matter if u think the ftf are unrelated to what u did, it is what kahr is going to think and tell you, and probably any outher gun maker to.

Not seing how the mag disconnet is in the kahrs, I have no idea as to how to disable them, I would think they sould be able to be taken out withouth a dremel but again I don't know that either. U are the first to have done this mod to the komifrnia P380.

Just my two cents.

On shaving the bottom of the lci, I see no reason why it would effect reliability. I would attach it that way instead of shaving off the top of the lci where it will be seen and will look like sh-t to, and I also think one can replace the lci if needed.

get the gun reliable before going any further, that is the important thing.

Have u visited the kahr tech section ahd hit on the great sticky's

#1 kahr lube chart

#2 Propper prepping of ur new kahr.

u should be able to reset the trigger on a kahr by pulling the slide back about a 1/4" inch therefore eliminating the locking open of the slide for practice purposes..

I hear you Jocko, and you are totally 100 percent correct about the warranty thing...No way I'm going to send it back to kahr now unless I undo the modification. It actually wouldn't be that hard. Probably a 5 dollar part and she would be right as rain (at least in Kahr's eyes haha). I didn't plan on sending it to them anyways, because as you can probably guess I like to figure things out for myself. To be honest, I didn't know that these guns needed so much lube in all those different places, and I did not apply any oil or anything to the gun after I bought it, just took it out to shoot (probably bone dry). I'm going to polish some internals, oil her back up, and hold her much tighter (I didn't know you had to choke them either) and I have my suspicions that she will run great.

Your idea on the LCI sounds spot on too. But I agree I need to get her 100% before I go cutting any more things off, LOL.

BTW: Yes I did check those two threads, they were an immense help. Very good stuff indeed...

[dtlent]

Can you describe how you disabled the magazine disconnect feature on your P380-CA?

Thanks!