CW9 Striker Channel

[mr surveyor]

Today, on another site (defensivecarry.com) a poster started a thread concerning his "former" CW9... the whole escapade sounded a bit ... uuuhhh.. unusual. But, to try to sum it up, he said that he was about to clean his CW9, dropped the mag, and retracted the slide about 1/4 to 1/2 inch when it "just went off". First thought was BS. The gun apparantly wasn't damaged, nor was the shooter's..... uuuuhhhh.... handler's hand injured... from a gun that wasn't in battery. From following the complete discussion, obviously full of conjecture from those of us that weren't there (it actually stayed pretty civil), I think the "handler" may have partially retracted the slide, it slipped from his grasp, bumped into battery...then may, possibly, have AD'd. Again, just a theory from piecing together all the possibilities floating around. Before I add my nickle's worth to the guessing, and add my questions for the more informed members here, I'll briefly finish the story from the original "handler's" account. After the AD occurred, he stated that he had a bit of dry wall to fix, but nothing major... then immediately sold the gun to a "friend" (whose dad just happens to be a gun smith), then bought an LCP.... busy day, huh?

Anyway, the brain waves were rocking in the thread over the possible cause of a striker fired handgun "just going off by itself" as described, and some interesting possibilities were brought up. It seems that quite a few folks have detail stripped their Kahr uppers and found a sizeable amount of brass shavings (a few even said they found what appeared to be steel shavings from the milling process) in the striker channel. Someone indicated that there was a possibility of the strikerbeing trapped by the gunk, then releasing if it were bumped or jarred.... which to me would indicate that the trigger had to be intentionally pulled, fully cocking the striker, leading to the striker being jammed until dislodged by some type of jarring force. Also, the striker disconnect would have to fail as well.... possibly as gunked up as the striker channel???? Actually, the whole story just doesn't seem to add up to me.

So, guess what the surv did all afternoon? I finally got around to taking advantage of the excellent instructions borrowed from GlockTalk for detail stripping the Kahr upper. With only 519 rounds through my CW9 I wasn't expecting much in the way of brass shavings, but was proven wrong. I used a dozen q-tips (both ends) soaked in Hoppe's #9 cleaning out the glittery brass crud and mud (I do NOT lube the striker) and a half dozen dry ones to get it all clean and shiny. After reassembly, and function testing cycling and extraction (didn't have a chance to go to the range in the rain), I spent several hours searching the net for Kahr ND's and AD's..... not much of anything to really get queasy about.... except the guy that dropped his gun and took out a potty.... could it be the same possible stuck striker and possible coincidental striker safety block failure as conjectured above? Is any of this even possible?

Now, if you've stayed with me this long, I have a couple of questions.

First, I think that somewhere I saw a picture of "normal primer strikes" from Kahr pistols that looked like an off center, oblong dimple. Maybe it was another manufacturer (I read WAY too much gun related stuff), but I'm thinking it was Kahr. If it was inded the case, could the striker/firing pin be nipping brass from the casing and excessively retracting the glitter back into the striker channel?

Second, Jocko mentioned using a high pressure spray solvent applied in the "cleaning hole" on the underside of the slide to blow the crud out of the striker channel. The Kahr manuals don't mention the existence of a cleaning hole.... actually they don't even have a recommended lubrication method mentioned in the manual. My question to Jocko, or anyone else with actual knowledge of the mechanics involved, is whether or not the spray method should reliably flush out the glittery goo?

Thanks

surv

[jocko]

if u feel taking the slide all the way down to clean it, no problem from me on it. I just know in 25,000 rounds my striker channel "
acts" perfectly clean. I use that little clean out hole 24/7 every time I clean the gun. I feel it is totally clean. YMMV. That guy on the potty that said his gun was drop fired, was later on proven out to be lying. (he was a police officer) He was playing with the gun while sitting on the damn pot. that story has been disproven. Can a drop fire possably happen, even on kahrs which has never had it happen, certainly so. they are made by man, things can break. I trust my kahrs (all of them) but I also every time I clean it manually push in on the striker block to see if #1, it s releasing the striker, #2 to see if it is also locking the striker back as it is designed to do.

Alof of semis have a clean out hole in the slide, and I do think that is because the mfg-er really doesn't want one tearing down the slides completely. Why kahr does not put a note in their manual about that little hole is definitely something that I think they should be doing. course maybe they also think that a shooter will soon figure it out also.

If crud can get into the front of the breech face, then IMO, that clean out hole up front can certainly dissolve and blow that crud right back out of the same hole it came in from. I could tell you that I have taken all 3 of my kahr slides totally down and they have been spotless, but I would be like the guy on the potty. Who knows there might be some crud in my striker channel from all the rounds down range. I just seriously doubt it though. I spray my 3M solvent in that little hole and it has alot of pressure behind it and fluids just pour out front and back of the slide striker openings. I just feel very comfortable about it being clean from that spray job.

It is not rocket science to take the slide apart either. Once one does a few times , they can do it blindfolded. the two things one has to be careful of, is #1 that black rod at the very back will come flying out when taking it down and also trying to reinstall it. #2 that little striker block spring, if you drop it, trust me, it is gone. It is that small.

I have never had my extractor channel apart in any of my 3 kahrs. It can be spray cleaned from behind the extractor and a drop of oil in that area also is a good thing. Kahr has a patent on their extractor, and in their verbage on the patent they "claim" their extractor is self cleaning yadda yadda (one should read their patent for more details)

I have never had my G19 upper slide totally apart either. It has a clean out hole and it seems to work well and I have never had one issue with my G19. their striker rides on a nylon bushing inside the striker channel and there fore also needs NO OIL..

so Surveryor, not sure I properly answered your questions as they were good questions. I can only relate my esperience and experiences of other kahr shooters who introduced me to the mechanics of kahrs etc and from talking with some good inside kahr tech people who have passed on this info to me.

I do totally agree that kahr should mention that clean out hole in their manual,might save alot of peopel from sending their guns back just because of a gummy striker channel. I will pass this along to my kahr inside person and see if I get any reply back.

I think kahrs strikers make a primer indent that is oblong and that is by design. I have read that somewhere also..

[500KV]

I also saw that thread surv.
This is the link for those interested.
No Longer a Kahr Owner - DefensiveCarry Concealed Carry Forum (http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/92806-no-longer-kahr-owner.html)

IMHO the only way to be sure those brass shavings are completely cleaned out is to disassemble the slide and, as you say, use a Q-tip to clean the striker channel.
You have to disassemble it anyway to clean the extractor and extractor channel (a pipe cleaner works well for this). Only takes a few extra minutes to do it right.

It is the prevailing feeling from what I've read that the shavings come from the primers when the striker is pulled back into the channel.
Strange set of circumstances to cause those ADs no doubt.

[mr surveyor]

Actually, I kinda believe the more recent hypothesis that the OP in that thread is a 16 yr old mall ninja that has read just enough to be dangerous. I figure that he may indeed have shot a hole in mamma's wall. When those type posts show up one of the first things I do is read the OP's other posts, and a good bit of what this kid said could be contradicted by his previous statements. But, it did inspire me to detail strip and find a whole lot of stuff in the striker channel. I can imagine the striker getting restricted over time after several thousand rounds have been cycled through, unless the thing is stripped and cleaned or "pressure washed" like Jocko suggests. Mine was pretty fouled after 519 rounds. Now, whether this could possibly cause an ND (or AD if you want to blame the weapon), I really don't think so, unless the striker hangs after being fully cocked by a trigger pull and then releases only after a bump or jar.........

Then again.....I spent a good bit of time yesterday searching for AD/ND reports involving Kahr..... they just ain't happening!


surv

[jocko]

Actually, I kinda believe the more recent hypothesis that the OP in that thread is a 16 yr old mall ninja that has read just enough to be dangerous. I figure that he may indeed have shot a hole in mamma's wall. When those type posts show up one of the first things I do is read the OP's other posts, and a good bit of what this kid said could be contradicted by his previous statements. But, it did inspire me to detail strip and find a whole lot of stuff in the striker channel. I can imagine the striker getting restricted over time after several thousand rounds have been cycled through, unless the thing is stripped and cleaned or "pressure washed" like Jocko suggests. Mine was pretty fouled after 519 rounds. Now, whether this could possibly cause an ND (or AD if you want to blame the weapon), I really don't think so, unless the striker hangs after being fully cocked by a trigger pull and then releases only after a bump or jar.........

Then again.....I spent a good bit of time yesterday searching for AD/ND reports involving Kahr..... they just ain't happening!


surv

have to realize that most all AD k-booms with any gun is user error, but you also know that 99.995% will never admit to it, so there for it is told as a AD , not a ND. big differene, as u know

I don't feel the kahrs get anymore primer shaving inside the breech?striker channel area than any other semi. One must keep his gun clean and clear, and what ever method floats ones boat, as long as it works, just keep doing it. My comments referred to my 3 kahrs of which I know I keep clean. YMMV. If one looks at the striker on a kahr and its design, I feel myself that it is also a self cleaning striker in that it would take a tremendous amount of negligent build up in that area before light strikes could occur. I also have felt and proved with my 3 kahrs that once broken in an running smooth, one can back off on the amout of lubricant in a kahr. Contrary to some opinions, kahrs do not need to be running "wet". Now that being said you can run a kahr wet and it will give u flawless service but it will require alittle more TLC to make sure it is clean in the areas that HAVE TO BE CLEAN. Oils have a tendency to run where they are not wanted also, and for me my PM9 rides in my front pocket 24/7 so my slides are lubed with TW25 grease, It doesn't run and stain all over hell either.

[JAllen158]

I realize this thread has been inactive a while now, but I wanted to add my experiences. My CW9 slide gets detail stripped for cleaning every 500 rounds or so, and the striker channel is always full of little brass shavings. I too never lube any of the fire controls. I've never had a single problem with the debris (a few light strikes but they were caused by Wolf ammo) I just don't like knowing it's there.

[PETE14]

I believe what you are getting based upon first hand experience of stripping the gun and having a nickel teflon finish on the stiker flaking off. I posted this http://kahrtalk.com/kahr-tech/866-mk9-problem-not.html.
The coating that comes off tends to look like brass shavings but is not.

Since I have replaced the striker I have fired around 50 rounds thru it and stripped it and hard virtually nothing in it. Not that I am an expert but as far as I can tell it is a coating (teflon) that is there for longevity of the striker and is never going to be bad for the gun. My glock 23 channel was just as dirty it just didn't have the teflon shavings in it.

[JAllen158]

That may be, but the tiny shavings are the color of brass. The striker makes a bit of a swept impresion on the struck primers so I'm thinking every so often it frees a small piece and it follows the striker tip back in behind the breach face. I have noticed though, that my extractor is looking alittle ragged, I supose that could be the culprit too.:confused:

[PETE14]

That may be, but the tiny shavings are the color of brass. too.:confused:

When I took my Striker out and peeled some of the coating off the back of it was brass in color. That is where mine was coming from.