New To Kahr Talk (Satisfied PM9 Owner considering moving to PM40)

[MrColionNoir]

I was referred here by deadhead1971 and look forward to learning even more about my kahr. My experience so far has been pretty good. I did a review on my khar pm9 prior to joining to this forumhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwVAlgR13M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwVAlgR13M)

I did a quick search and nothing pulled up, but basically would like to know what you guys think.

I love my pm9, but have been eying the pm40 lately. Should I make the jump?

If there is already a thread on this topic, I apologize and would love the link to it.

Thanks.

[Joe L]

I bought a used PM40 as my first Kahr. I was looking for a PM9 at the time but found this PM40 locally from a guy I knew. Since I wanted more than one carry pistol anyway, I took a chance. The PM9 and PM40 function and break down identically. The trigger is identical to your PM9, which means it is excellent, the best of all the subcompacts.

The difference is in the recoil. The PM40 is not a range gun that I would want to shoot 100-150 rounds per range visit. The PM9 is much more comfortable to shoot, from a recoil standpoint. Shooting steel silhouettes at 50 yards is a blast with the PM40, however, so I put up with it occasionally. For a carry gun, the PM40 is perfect, just like your PM9. For a range gun, I would pick something a little heavier if I wanted to shoot 40 cal. To me, the PM40 is an excellent hand gun mechanically, just like the PM9. But it is light, and this means more recoil and a little slower to get the second shot off.

If I already had a PM9 and wanted a second carry gun that I wouldn't be shooting much, I wouldn't hesitate at all to get a PM40.

Joe

[Bill K]

Welcome to Kahrtalk!

I just got back here to post after viewing your 2 part Kahr PM9 review videos. I thought they were very well done and liked that they're are from a regular concealed carry gun owner.

Two questions if I may... 1) Had you considered the CM9 before choosing the PM9? 2) Your Glock 36, have you any opinions on the G36 vs. the CW9 that you'd be willing to share?

Bill K.

[MrColionNoir]

Welcome to Kahrtalk!

I just got back here to post after viewing your 2 part Kahr PM9 review videos. I thought they were very well done and liked that they're are from a regular concealed carry gun owner.

Two questions if I may... 1) Had you considered the CM9 before choosing the PM9? 2) Your Glock 36, have you any opinions on the G36 vs. the CW9 that you'd be willing to share?

Bill K.

Thanks. I know there are a lot professional reviews on pm9, but I wanted to do one more grass roots.

1). I considered the CW9 before I was aware of the CM9. I went with the PM9 over the CW9 because it was smaller. Honestly, if i was aware of the CM9 at the time, the price difference and minimal functional difference may have pulled me over to the CM9. But I must say, every time i clean my PM9 I learn to appreciate the quality of the gun more and more.

2) The G36 was a no brainier for me. Glock durability (its ugly so i don't mind messing it up) + Kahrish Slim Frame (single stack) + .45 ACP + little to no maintenance = winner in my book. My favorite gun is my Kimber Ultra Raptor. The gun ide choose if I could only have one is my Glock 36. The Gun I have on me 86% of time is My PM9.

[MrColionNoir]

I bought a used PM40 as my first Kahr. I was looking for a PM9 at the time but found this PM40 locally from a guy I knew. Since I wanted more than one carry pistol anyway, I took a chance. The PM9 and PM40 function and break down identically. The trigger is identical to your PM9, which means it is excellent, the best of all the subcompacts.

The difference is in the recoil. The PM40 is not a range gun that I would want to shoot 100-150 rounds per range visit. The PM9 is much more comfortable to shoot, from a recoil standpoint. Shooting steel silhouettes at 50 yards is a blast with the PM40, however, so I put up with it occasionally. For a carry gun, the PM40 is perfect, just like your PM9. For a range gun, I would pick something a little heavier if I wanted to shoot 40 cal. To me, the PM40 is an excellent hand gun mechanically, just like the PM9. But it is light, and this means more recoil and a little slower to get the second shot off.

If I already had a PM9 and wanted a second carry gun that I wouldn't be shooting much, I wouldn't hesitate at all to get a PM40.

Joe

Jesus, this was exactly the kind of break down I looking for. Thank alot. I guess the hard part for me is that I would have to get rid of my PM9 in order to get the PM40. I am not in a position to have both (Read: limited funds at the moment).

I can put up with quite a bit of recoil, so the kick of the PM40 is not much of a turn off to me. I just don't know if the benefits of the .40 (I feel like im sparking a caliber debate) is enough for me to let go of my PM9.

[jocko]

The gun ide choose if I could only have one is my Glock 36. The Gun I have on me 86% of time is My PM9.


a wise choice on the PM9. If I choose my G19 over my kahrs it would only be for the 15 rounds, nothgingmore. I truse my PM9 withy thousands of rounds through it as much as I would any glock, and more so than some glocks..

[MrColionNoir]

The gun ide choose if I could only have one is my Glock 36. The Gun I have on me 86% of time is My PM9.


a wise choice on the PM9. If I choose my G19 over my kahrs it would only be for the 15 rounds, nothgingmore. I truse my PM9 withy thousands of rounds through it as much as I would any glock, and more so than some glocks..


So far my PM9 has not let me down except for that minor reset issue, otherwise, I love this lil gun.

[TheTman]

Welcome to the forum MrColionNoir. Don't have any experience with the PM series, but I would suspect that shooting +P ammo from the PM9 would be close to the experience you'd have with the PM40. I went with the CW40, then bought the CW45. I guess adhere to the old saying, "Never bring a gun whose caliber doesn't start in 4 to a gunfight." Actually I am looking at a pocket 9 for summer carry, I'd pack +P ammo for carry. 9mm is as small a caliber as I want to carry. (My apologies to all you .380 packers out there). I'm a small guy so I have to have a big gun to compensate. :)

[Bill K]

Oops! I meant to ask 2) Your Glock 36, have you any opinions on the G36 vs. the CW45 that you'd be willing to share?

But it was good to hear about your G36 & PM9 thoughts.

Thanks

[TucsonMTB]

Welcome to the forum, even if I am not nearly the first to offer. :)

My wife also shoots. As much as we enjoy our PM40 and CW40, if we had other 9mm pistols a PM9 would have made more sense. But, we do not.

I enjoy shopping online for ammo, usually buying case lots when a bargain surfaces. The result is a nice stockpile that favors a limited number of calibers for simplicity. It was a little hard to justify adding .40 S&W, but a PM45 just won't fit in any of my pockets. :rolleyes:

Anyway, consider the cost of ammo as part of the equation., as I suspect you already are. Unless you are willing to chase bargains, it's hard to compete with 9mm prices, as I am sure you have noticed. Otherwise, PM40's are really fun to shoot. :D

[O'Dell]

I was in my GS today looking at PM40's. They had a couple of nice used ones plus, of course, the new ones in black and SS. I've got the PM9 and LCP for pocket pistols, so I DON'T NEED another small gun right now. [I keep telling myself that] However, I really like the shooting CW40 and it's only an oz heavier than the PM, so other that the smaller grip, it shouldn't be that much different. I don't need another pistol, I don't need another pistol, I don't need...............

[Bawanna]

A lot of good information thrown your way. I would not part with the PM9 for a PM40 for reasons already stated. The 9 is cheaper to feed and a lot more pleasant to shoot. I'm not recoil sensitive but for a carry gun I like faster follow up shots if needed.

The 40 is a great round without question but I like it in a larger package.

If your not gonna pocket carry I'd step up to the PM45. While its not quite as fast as the 9 for followup shots its way faster than the firebreathing 40 in my hands anyway and I like fat bullets.

In your shoes and this is just my opinion of course I'd keep the PM9, bond with it and add something else that might belt carry as a running mate when the piggy bank is full enough.
Oh looking back I see the Ultra Raptor, a perfect running mate right there.

[TucsonMTB]

I was in my GS today looking at PM40's. They had a couple of nice used ones plus, of course, the new ones in black and SS. I've got the PM9 and LCP for pocket pistols, so I DON'T NEED another small gun right now. [I keep telling myself that] However, I really like the shooting CW40 and it's only an oz heavier than the PM, so other that the smaller grip, it shouldn't be that much different. I don't need another pistol, I don't need another pistol, I don't need...............
With both a CW40 and PM40 in hand, I can tell you that the shorter grip makes the PM40 noticeably more lively. To me, the CW40 is a pussycat by comparison and more fun as a range toy for my wife. As usual, YMMV ;)

Still, for me, it's hard to beat a nice hand cannon for pure fun. Yeah, I might be a recoil junkie. :rolleyes:

[Glock3540]

A lot of good information thrown your way. I would not part with the PM9 for a PM40 for reasons already stated. The 9 is cheaper to feed and a lot more pleasant to shoot. I'm not recoil sensitive but for a carry gun I like faster follow up shots if needed.

The 40 is a great round without question but I like it in a larger package.

If your not gonna pocket carry I'd step up to the PM45. While its not quite as fast as the 9 for followup shots its way faster than the firebreathing 40 in my hands anyway and I like fat bullets.

In your shoes and this is just my opinion of course I'd keep the PM9, bond with it and add something else that might belt carry as a running mate when the piggy bank is full enough.
Oh looking back I see the Ultra Raptor, a perfect running mate right there.


Well Spoken,
This is very close to my exact opinion.
I love my new PM9 and so far it has been 100%.
I do prefer my G27 (that I have carried daily for well over a decade now) as well as my larger pistols, but this little PM9, with the laser, just fits the bill for lighter clothing. I'm not a laser guy. I always thought of them as a gimmick for the movies but I must admit, this little Crimson Trace addition is changing my mind a little.
My beloved G35 is my favorite but a little harder to ALWAYS have it on me. My .45 is larger still.. I don't completely trust my P3AT (a few misfires will make a man doubt a weapon when it counts so I carry it when "I'm not carrying a gun".
Sorry to chase rabbits and thanks for letting me put in my .02.

Blessings,
Brian

[RogerP9fan]

I prefer 9mm in a subcompact pistol. You can only get two fingers around the grip. You never know in a crisis, you may have to fire one-handed. The .40 blast is a bit much for a subcompact. That's why I roll with a G26 and soon to be CM9. As we all know, with right 9mm SD ammo, you're good to go.

[Bawanna]

Well Spoken,
This is very close to my exact opinion.
I love my new PM9 and so far it has been 100%.
I do prefer my G27 (that I have carried daily for well over a decade now) as well as my larger pistols, but this little PM9, with the laser, just fits the bill for lighter clothing. I'm not a laser guy. I always thought of them as a gimmick for the movies but I must admit, this little Crimson Trace addition is changing my mind a little.
My beloved G35 is my favorite but a little harder to ALWAYS have it on me. My .45 is larger still.. I don't completely trust my P3AT (a few misfires will make a man doubt a weapon when it counts so I carry it when "I'm not carrying a gun".
Sorry to chase rabbits and thanks for letting me put in my .02.

Blessings,
Brian

Hey if you agree with me and share my opinions your welcome a thousand times over to chase rabbits and put in your .02 any ole time you get the slightest desire. I got your back.
You fellas and gals take heed, Brian agrees with me. That's once.

I think this here calls for a celebration.

Seriously Brian, well I don't really do serious but welcome, glad you found us and hope you hang out.

[jocko]

With both a CW40 and PM40 in hand, I can tell you that the shorter grip makes the PM40 noticeably more lively. To me, the CW40 is a pussycat by comparison and more fun as a range toy for my wife. As usual, YMMV ;)

Still, for me, it's hard to beat a nice hand cannon for pure fun. Yeah, I might be a recoil junkie. :rolleyes:

easily solved: PORT IT!!:)

[Bill K]

I prefer 9mm in a subcompact pistol. You can only get two fingers around the grip. You never know in a crisis, you may have to fire one-handed. The .40 blast is a bit much for a subcompact. That's why I roll with a G26 and soon to be CM9. As we all know, with right 9mm SD ammo, you're good to go.

+1 IMHO, for us civilians, your one hand shooting skills should be developed and practice more than your 7+ yard two hand sighted shooting. I believe that most nines will be easier to get back on target, one handed shooting, that most .40 S&Ws or even pocket .380s (because of their very light weight and very small grips).

Bill K.

[garyb]

First ask yourself WHY you are considering a PM40. Once you have that figured out, if you still feel the 40 is the way to go, by all means make the move. If not, keep your 9...because it is a good gun and caliber. Whatever you have confidence in and can shoot well. Taking nothing at all from the pm9, I happen to love my PM40. I quit getting into the dialog of comparisons with the pm9 vs PM40, nor calibers of 9 vs 40, because it is a very individual decision and the same arguments/discussions apply over and over again.

MY PM40 operates flawlessly and eats everything I have fed it. I did the Jocko prep when I first purchased my PM40 and prior to taking it to the range. I have never had a failure of any kind. Thank you Jocko. I have fed it all kinds of manufacturer's ammo and a wide spectrum of reloads and charges. Never a failure. I keep her clean and lubed and she just works everytime.

As for recoil, the discussion seems silly to me. She felt a little obnoxious at the first round, but the more you shoot this fine little lady, the more you will love her. My PM40 is a real pleasure to shoot. Honestly. I am confident in this caliber as a defensive carry weapon. Once you get the feel for the muzzle flip, by keeping your eye on the front sight and follow through with a neutral grip, it returns to the target like it is spring loaded. It's a feel. Let's face it, the gun does not shoot fast or slow on its own. It is the shooter. You get the feel for how a gun tracks. Every gun and every caliber is different.

As Brian Enos says in his book, "Practical Shooting" - "You want the gun to recoil as if it were a machine...it does not matter how high the sight tracks in recoil as long as it returns to the exact same place and that it travels on the exact path to get there. Watch how the sight tracks in recoil and make sure it's moving consistently, regardless of the shooting situation....allowing the gun to recoil in the same direction, to the same level, and on the same path - both in lift off the target and return to the target - on each shot. The grip and stance cannot control recoil in the sense of 'stopping' recoil. That is not possible. What is possible is control of the sight and gun, and that's what a neutral grip helps you realize. If the recoil you experience is consistent, it really does not matter how high the muzzle actually lifts."

Please understand that I am not an expert. But I'd say that Brian Enos is. You will adjust to the muzzle lift of the 40, the same way as you adjust to the muzzle lift of the 9, or 38, or 380, etc... if you practice neutrality as Brian describes in his book. You will get the feel for your own gun and how it tracks with the correct practice. It is in your neutrality and in your eye.

The pm9 and PM40 are both fine handguns. The decision is individual. Some prefer the pm9. Some prefer the PM40. I prefer the 40 for my own reasons. You will adjust. It is really that simple.

[Joe L]

I agree with GaryB. That is why I have both a CM9 and a PM40. I like them both, can shoot both fairly well, but they are different so I respond to them differently. Just like my P226 with a 9mm slide and barrel is very different from the same gun with a 40 or 357 cal slide and barrel. Practice, adapt, practice, adapt. But mainly practice and become proficient with every firearm you may need to use.

[O'Dell]

With both a CW40 and PM40 in hand, I can tell you that the shorter grip makes the PM40 noticeably more lively. To me, the CW40 is a pussycat by comparison and more fun as a range toy for my wife. As usual, YMMV ;)

Still, for me, it's hard to beat a nice hand cannon for pure fun. Yeah, I might be a recoil junkie. :rolleyes:

The CW40 is a OWB carry for me. With the temps here in the mid to upper nineties, and no relief in sight, I need something for the pocket or at least the ankle. Currently that would only be the PM9 or LCP. Is the PM40 that much worst than the PM9 with +P GD's? That I know I can handle OK.

[TucsonMTB]

The CW40 is a OWB carry for me. With the temps here in the mid to upper nineties, and no relief in sight, I need something for the pocket or at least the ankle. Currently that would only be the PM9 or LCP. Is the PM40 that much worst than the PM9 with +P GD's? That I know I can handle OK.
I don't think so, but I have never fired a PM9. At one time, we had a Kel-Tec P-11 (9mm) and P-40 upper (.40 S&W). Both slides worked about the same on the P-11 lower. I do not remember there being much difference in recoil between the two. My wife out-shot me with both, despite the horrible trigger and unsophisticated recoil spring system.

If you ever get to Tucson, you are welcome to shoot mine. :)

[Nickso]

I have a thread here on my PM40 problems. I just updated the thread so it should be at the top.

Hope the thread helps you.

[mudfish]

You're doubting the ability of the 9mm aren't you? Well... Mindset is extremely important, and having confidence in your equipment is vital. Yes the 40 recoil is slightly more, but not much compared to a 9mm +P+. Deal with it. If it makes you more confident, by all means do it.

You know you want it... (but this one is mine) :)
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/2025e1bb.jpg

[mudfish]

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/091072c3.jpg

[O'Dell]

I don't think so, but I have never fired a PM9. At one time, we had a Kel-Tec P-11 (9mm) and P-40 upper (.40 S&W). Both slides worked about the same on the P-11 lower. I do not remember there being much difference in recoil between the two. My wife out-shot me with both, despite the horrible trigger and unsophisticated recoil spring system.

If you ever get to Tucson, you are welcome to shoot mine. :)

Yeah, I had one of those P-11's several years ago too, but only in 9mm. I had to sell it because of that trigger.

Thanks

[O'Dell]

You're doubting the ability of the 9mm aren't you? Well... Mindset is extremely important, and having confidence in your equipment is vital. Yes the 40 recoil is slightly more, but not much compared to a 9mm +P+. Deal with it. If it makes you more confident, by all means do it.

You know you want it... (but this one is mine) :)
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/2025e1bb.jpg

I'm waiting on the CM40 and CM45. Those bells and whistles on the PM's aren't that important to me for a carry gun. I am keeping the PM9, however, while I wait.

[HadEmAll]

I bought the PM40 first. I liked it so much that I got a PM9 also. Both are reliable and work in pocket or gunpack just great.

Some days I feel like a .40, and some days I like the idea of the extra round and 9mm is good enough.