PM trigger job

[G-9]

Has anyone had a trigger job done on their PM? I am thinking about it. Any thoughts or experiences? Also does any one know of someone in SW Michigan that has a good reputation on doing this. Thanks

[varoadking]

I am thinking about it.

What do you hope to improve?

[Grabbrass]

Yeah ummm .... I'm one of those guys who comes in on trigger job threads and nags that it's not a good idea to modify the trigger components of a carry weapon.

FWIW, I was a prosecutor for 5 years. If the investigating detective's report says the defendant's gun had been modified for a lighter trigger break, that prosecutor will use it. Any prosecutor would love to be able to tell a jury the defendant's gun had a 'hair trigger.' And no amount of explaining you might do can take the words back out of their ears.

If you just really feel the need for a single-action type trigger break, consider something like the Springfield EMP. I don't think a SAO weapon is a good idea for carry either, but at least you can keep it stock.

Just my opinion so disregard if you like. I just think trigger jobs are best reserved for competition, recreational, and hunting guns. Any firearm you may someday use for defense of self or others should be kept free of modifications to the trigger group.

[Wayne's World]

I think “Grabbrass” had the definitive answer. In court, they would have your ass for lunch. One way or the other, you would become the bad guy. Besides, the PM9 has a very smooth trigger to begin with. Unless there is something catching or dragging in the pull, I’d leave it alone.
Just another 2 cents.

[G-9]

Thanks gentlemen for your responses. I really had not thought of the legal aspect. Thanks and good thought Grabbrass!. I do agree the PM has a pretty smooth pull. I have very small hands. I was hoping to achieve just a slightly shorter pull. No matter though, the legal ramification has pretty much made up my mind. Thanks again.

[jocko]

I seriously doubt any trigger job will get one in trouble. I really do, if u polish up the action , that is not going to get u into trouble. YMMV. kahrs trigger systme is totallysmooth to begin with, really not much you can do to make it any better . I was one of those newbies back when and I contrcted with cylinder and slide to do a PM9 tune job etc, cost me damn near a grand and it was the biggest waste of money I have ever spent. If the gun came back any smoother, I sure in hell could not tell it.

Leave ur kahr alone, they are that smooth and rounds down range will only make the gun even smoother...

I have never read of a court case concerning the above remarks. not that it can't happen but I ain't buying it... If u shoot a priest in a grocery store with a untouched gun or one with some action work, your gonna go to jail either way, but if u shoot a BG because he tried to rob u or even kill your or breaks in your home, then a gun with any action work or just basic stock,,, IMO is not going to even come into play. We could play this scenario out to shooting hp ammo over fmj or ammo with shot in them so as to not kill. Guess we could evens ay night sights could get u into legal issues if u had to use the gun. If all these things worry a person who wants to carry, IMO best not to carry. I wold rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6..

[kpm9]

I've done it on all of mine. ;) 500 rounds will smooth that trigger right out.

[jocko]

I've done it on all of mine. ;) 500 rounds will smooth that trigger right out.

I bet yours is as smooth as my $1000 C & S job...:third:

[deadhead1971]

I am not sure I follow the "'hair trigger" legal argument. They may try to spin it as an accidental discharge, but on the flip, if you use a DAO, then the prosecutor will tell the jury that the shooter "intended" to shoot.

So which is better for the shooter, an accident (SAO) or willful intent (DAO)?

[jocko]

I am not sure I follow the "'hair trigger" legal argument. They may try to spin it as an accidental discharge, but on the flip, if you use a DAO, then the prosecutor will tell the jury that the shooter "intended" to shoot.

So which is better for the shooter, an accident (SAO) or willful intent (DAO)?

that if the BG is dead on arrival, he can't tell his side of the story. Again I've never read of a legal action due to hair trigger stuff. Indeed a double action revolver put in single action mode is certainly a hair trigger compared to the double action sequence. Personally I guess for me, we are making to much out of nothing, YMMV..

Again, we must all remember , when we put that gun in our pocket or on our side, we are saying also that I accept the liability that might come from this, if not don't carry..

judged by 12 or carried by 6, ur choice

[deadhead1971]

that if the BG is dead on arrival, he can't tell his side of the story.

Well then why do they (gun experts) suggest using hollow points because the BG is less likely to die because they will only have 1 hole instead of 2 from fmj over penetration? I have read in some of the leading gun magazines that hollow point ammo is "safer" for the bg, and the bg is less likely to die from being hit with a hp.

But don't "we" want to use hp because it creates a larger wound? :)

The two contradict each other to me. have you not heard or read both of these arguments?

[jocko]

Well then why do they (gun experts) suggest using hollow points because the BG is less likely to die because they will only have 1 hole instead of 2 from fmj over penetration? I have read in some of the leading gun magazines that hollow point ammo is "safer" for the bg, and the bg is less likely to die from being hit with a hp.

But don't "we" want to use hp because it creates a larger wound? :)

The two contradict each other to me. have you not heard or read both of these arguments?

have never read that theory about HP ammo being safer for the BG, Makes zero sense to me and I would think every reader. Hell these HP rounds today will open super and go through both sides of most all BG. There is alot more TRAUMA from being hit with a HP round than any fmj round could ever dream of..

No doubting you but I myself think that is pure unadulterated B. S.

[alnitak]

Well then why do they (gun experts) suggest using hollow points because the BG is less likely to die because they will only have 1 hole instead of 2 from fmj over penetration? I have read in some of the leading gun magazines that hollow point ammo is "safer" for the bg, and the bg is less likely to die from being hit with a hp.

Never heard that. In some cases, actually heard the opposite if the bullet doesn't hit a critical area and just goes through flesh/muscle, exiting out the other side. An easier wound to heal without intrusive surgery, etc.

Don't believe everything you read or hear. I use HP for maximum effectiveness, including dumping all the energy into the target rather than going through the other side with energy still intact.

[jocko]

Never heard that. In some cases, actually heard the opposite if the bullet doesn't hit a critical area and just goes through flesh/muscle, exiting out the other side. An easier wound to heal without intrusive surgery, etc.

Don't believe everything you read or hear. I use HP for maximum effectiveness, including dumping all the energy into the target rather than going through the other side with energy still intact.

dumps a hell of alot of energy, much bigger inner hole,much bigger exit hole, much more trauma. FMJ acts like a ice pick, round hole, pushes back tisssue more than destroys it and wants to keep on going. It will penetrate more than most HP but most of today good defense rounds will exit the body also. Once outside the body, it then becomes a flying hazard for innocent people.

[alnitak]

It will penetrate more than most HP but most of today good defense rounds will exit the body also.

True.

[G-9]

Wow. Trigger job turned legal troubles turned hollow points vs FMJ. Some thread. All good reading. As for me, I would like a tad smoother trigger, a good lawyer, good shot placement and Winchester Talons or Federal hydra shocks.
Among other things.:D:D

[zena]

Thanks gentlemen for your responses. I really had not thought of the legal aspect. Thanks and good thought Grabbrass!. I do agree the PM has a pretty smooth pull. I have very small hands. I was hoping to achieve just a slightly shorter pull. No matter though, the legal ramification has pretty much made up my mind. Thanks again.

I too, have very small hands. I compete with an even bigger gun (double stack 40). Practice, practice, practice. And do hand strengthening exercises if you need to. The trigger pull on that Kahr is so smooth it's really just a matter of "learning" it in your hands. Try shooting with speed and accuracy. Get a timer to work with...It will tell you draw to first shot and timing between consecutive shots. And it's awhole new level of fun!:33:

[jocko]

Wow. Trigger job turned legal troubles turned hollow points vs FMJ. Some thread. All good reading. As for me, I would like a tad smoother trigger, a good lawyer, good shot placement and Winchester Talons or Federal hydra shocks.
Among other things.:D:D

indeed, we do tend to get carried away sometimes:target: