PM9 - Mag problem?

[SCNick]

My PM9 has developed symptoms almost the same as Devo's
See Thread (http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6929)

Today at the range my PM9 started "nose diving" 80% of the time always on the second round. I would insert the mag, release the stop, first round would chamber and shoot, slide would catch and not close, 2nd round nose down on the ramp and wouldn't feed. This would happen with both the 6 and 7 round mag. Always on the 2nd round

The first trip to the range after all the suggested break in procedures resulted in over 200 rounds of the same Federal 9mm shot without a problem.
Again, I used the same ammo as the first time.

I reduced the number of rounds loaded by 1 each time until I hit 4 rounds. At 4 rounds everything worked perfectly. If I loaded 5 or more I would get 80% 2nd round nose dives and slide "lock' I say slide lock but Im not sure if the slide locked or just was stopped from closing by the nosedive.

If I understand the other thread, jocko stated

"another thing to try . take 2 rounds out of your 6 round magazine now load the gun leaving 3 rounds still in the magazine. See if it function perfectly.(by shooting it) By leaving 3 rounds in the magazine with one in the piple you have now let that follower slide past that slot opening in the magazine."

Doing this resulted in no failures to fire from my PM9 (four rounds or less loaded, hit slide lock to load first round, results in one in the pipe and 3 left in the mag.

I'm pretty new to handguns so I want to make sure I understand. In this scenario the follower is past the slot opening in the mag eliminating the follower catching on the slot opening

what exactly am I supposed to file down to eliminate this catching? is it that metal button on the follower?

Sorry for being long winded, but I want to make sure I'm understanding this

TIA

[jocko]

heh, BGB6491 post ur photo tutorial for this fella. he can fix this himself with ur help. will save me alot of time trying to explain.

[jocko]

scnick: PM sent to u.

[SCNick]

I just took the mag apart and inserted it in the gun. tried to run the follower up with the spring and it IS catching about 2/3 the way up....in fact it wouldnt come down without releasing the mag.

[jocko]

i sent u a fix, u now can figuyre it out, u have found the issue, now solve it. and then just shoot it like u stole it..

[SCNick]

thanks jocko.....I'll let you know how it turns out

[Sarge55]

jocko or SCNick: Any chance in sharing the fix with me? I've been through 3-7 round mags, all of which nosedive the rounds in the same manner and frequency. Just got another replacement mag from Kahr, and I'll be willing to bet it too will have the nosedive issue. All my 6 rounders work great. Have owned 2 other PM9's and never had a problem with any of the mags. I'm stumped.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Sarge55

[SCNick]

I tested my PM9 as jocko suggested and the follower was sticking at the mag release. I marked the follower with a silver sharpie as it passed by the mag catch hole. I then filed down the follower as he suggested until I got the follower running smooth as silk.
I havent tested the fix yet as I have not been to the range yet. Hopefully get to the range this week sometime.
Jocko - I hope you dont mind I posted this here !!!

From Jocko

"take the magazine and load it and then slowly pop each round out by hand until you see that follower come into view with that slot in the magazine. If u have a little scribe, or pin head, just outline that follower.

MNow take the floor plate off themagazine and pull the spring and follower out. look at ur mark u made, now with a fine file or some mdeium gri sand paper just file/sand down in that scrobed area and retest in thegun until it slides past that magazine button.

a good way to put thatmmag spring in to kso it doesn'tburtr anyone is to push it in the magaze as far as u can by hand and then in that last hole jusrt slide a nail througfh it and it will keep that spring in without any tension, then what is hanging out, just gentley push it in and put the floor plate back on.

ONow to seeif u sanded enought off, with the floor plate off the maazine and no spring in there either, after sanding/filing, just drop the follower in the magazine well that is now in thegun and see if it just slides right past that button, If so you have went far enoough. Why they do this is odd and smetimes like yhours it shows up after rounds are shot therogh the gun. I attribute that to maybe the mag catch now wearing in some from being so new and it is hitting that follower. I wold not mess with filing the mag catch but only the follower. U can't realy hurt anything by messing with the follower for the worstu can do is ruin the follower and u just buy another one, the best u can do is fix this little issue yourseof.

good luck, take ur time."

[TucsonMTB]

For some reason, I can't find the thread with the pictures . . . :(

Basically, you sand or file the area of the follower that is hitting the magazine catch and then test again as you have already done. When it slides freely, you are done. It's not possible to screw up the follower by sanding too much and Kahr will cheerfully replace it if it breaks.

The area that needs to be filed already has a molded in relief, but it is not deep enough and the area of the front skirt next to it should be sanded down a little too.

I have sanded down all of my mag followers and it definitely solves the issue.

Best of luck . . . let us know how it goes. :D

[Sarge55]

Many thanks SCNick and TucsonMTB. Along those lines, now that I think about it, the mag catch and spring may need replaced. The catch is somewhat "mushy" and doesn't release the mag until the catch button is almost flush with the grip frame. Hmmm... Thanks again, and I'll let you all know how it works out.

Sarge55

[Bawanna]

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612

Here is Gregs really great tutorial on lots of fixes. This mag issue is on the first page.

Good stuff.

[Sarge55]

Well... Called Kahr again and they replaced my two 7 round mags with two new ones... And guess what? They both work great! Put 75 rounds of various fmj and jhp through each of them, and not as much as a stutter. I'm more confused now then I was before! I have to guess that my previous mags were from a different lot with slightly different tolerences. With that said, I'm thrilled. Also, because of the "mushy" mag release button, Kahr is sending a new button and spring.
Never needed them before, but I must say, their customer service has been excellent.
BTW, I've learned a bunch since joining the forum, and it's nice to see so many folks trying to help each out with their problems. All your efforts have been very greatly appreciated. Many thanks!

[TucsonMTB]

Awesome! Now that you have it running right, I would be reluctant to mess with the magazine catch, unless you have a specific malfunction to address. A little mushiness in the button may not count as a malfunction. There's no guarantee that a replacement will work any better.

Yeah, I drive older cars and subscribe to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought. Yes, we perform all scheduled maintenance, like lubrication and filter changes, but that's all. Funny thing is, both of our older cars run great and seldom cost us money . . . :D

[jocko]

as tucson stated. save the mag button, if it ain't broke don't fix it. the mag button spring don't loose any power as they are merely a straight rod. If it feels mushy, it might just be that the button is also very smooth working. leave all alone and just shoot it like u stole it.
evidently it doesn't take but a few thousands for a kahr magazine to be out of spec to not drop freely, but many fixes have been stated on this forum and all seem to work. If I had the desire to make my mags drop which I really don't, I would go with the waxing of the magazines first then the light sandings of ther magazines with polish work after that. and last resort, some compressions to the magazine as shown by a fellow poster. Last last resort would be to send um back and cross your fingers u get ones that work. All these fixes have worked for different folks on this forum.

[SCNick]

I finally got to the range today. After filing down the mag followers as suggested, the 6 round mag performed flawlessly. The 7 round mag hung up twice on the 2nd round (same symptom as before)....once with JHP and once with a Speer Gold Dot. The 6 round fired about 60 rounds flawlessly. The 7 hung up twice on about 70 rounds.
I fired an additional 50 of Speer in the 6 round with no problems.
I think a tad more off the 7 round follower and I'll be good to go !!!!!
Thanks for all the great help and info !!!!!

[AFDoc]

SCNick/Jocko,
I'm stuck in the sandy part of the world for another month or so but am interested in this as I too have had the issue of the nose dive/slide lock, occasionally. Do you mind sending a photo of the exact part you are talking about and an explanation where you filed it down? I'm sure if I had it in front of me to see I'd figure it out but I'd like to see it for sure before I try filing anything down. Thanks.

[SCNick]

Didnt use pictures but used this narrative from Jocko.....use a Silver Sharpie as it passes the mag catch opening and it'll highlight the exact area to sand down

From Jocko

"take the magazine and load it and then slowly pop each round out by hand until you see that follower come into view with that slot in the magazine. If u have a little scribe, or pin head, just outline that follower.

MNow take the floor plate off themagazine and pull the spring and follower out. look at ur mark u made, now with a fine file or some mdeium gri sand paper just file/sand down in that scrobed area and retest in thegun until it slides past that magazine button.

a good way to put thatmmag spring in to kso it doesn'tburtr anyone is to push it in the magaze as far as u can by hand and then in that last hole jusrt slide a nail througfh it and it will keep that spring in without any tension, then what is hanging out, just gentley push it in and put the floor plate back on.

ONow to seeif u sanded enought off, with the floor plate off the maazine and no spring in there either, after sanding/filing, just drop the follower in the magazine well that is now in thegun and see if it just slides right past that button, If so you have went far enoough. Why they do this is odd and smetimes like yhours it shows up after rounds are shot therogh the gun. I attribute that to maybe the mag catch now wearing in some from being so new and it is hitting that follower. I wold not mess with filing the mag catch but only the follower. U can't realy hurt anything by messing with the follower for the worstu can do is ruin the follower and u just buy another one, the best u can do is fix this little issue yourseof.

good luck, take ur time."

[Sarge55]

Yeah, I think I'll take everyones advice and leave the mag release button alone. Put almost another 50 rounds through each mag last week and no problems. Don't want to start screwing with things now that I'm starting to feel confident with the seven rounders. Maybe some time down the road I'll switch out the button... Or maybe not. At least I'll have one in stock in case I ever need it.

[JACQUESFAUST]

Please send the user BGB6491 nosedive solution to me.
I tried to find this user but not sure he is still part of the KahrTalk website.

I just broke my gun in with 200 hundred rounds 115gr S&W FMJ.
Day 1, 100 rounds, 2 nosedives,
-- once with the 6 round mag, 2nd round,
-- once with the 7 round mag, 3rd round.
Day 2, 100 rounds (same as above).

In total: 4 nosedives.

I'm a 50-year-old, 160 pound, in good shape guy.
I concentrated on good stance, square shoulders, locked elbows, and firm two-handed grip, so I don't think "I" was the problem.

[Ressom]

Hi JACQUESFAUST... the fix is in the following thread in the Kahr-Tech section (it is a sticky under "Proper prep of a new kahr"):

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1521


MAGAZINE FIX: some have reported that their 2nd or 3rd round tends to nose dive in their kahrs. Here is what is happeing, as the magazine follower is moving upward when it hits that area where about round 2 or 3 is still in the magazine, that follower is now in that magazine slot hole where the magazine button locks into it. That magazine button is actually stopping that follower from sliding past it without any hindrance. Now I can tell you the fix but if you will just go to the sticky by GB6491 on CW fixes, and scroll down, u will see in with a great photo tutorial how to fix this issues. It is a peace of cake. A quick test to see if u have this issue, is unload the magazine, take the floor plate off the magazine and pull the spring and follower out of the magazine. Now insert the empty magazine in the gun until it locks in place. Now with the spring still under the follower insert it slowly in the magazine upward and feel for a stoppage before the follower gets to the top of the magazine. If u feel stoppage, then go to GB 6491 sticky and see how easy this fix is. OR pull the follower out and sand the right side of the follower back alittle where it comes into view in that magazine slot opening, smooth it with 600+ grit paper and retest, It will not take much to get clearance.. I would even recommend one to pre-test this out before going to the range. will take 5 minutes to test out. Get ur gun prepped right and all the little tid bits of information that this forum can supply before that first range trip and it will be a big success... This magazine fix is usually the culprit in 90% of all NOSEDIVE ISSUES.

[jocko]

go to the kahr tech section andhit on two threads tha twill lead your through the follower things, AIf u do what SCNick did, it will give u ositivbe results.

look up these two stickys: read um completely.

#1 Propper prepping of ur new kahr, it address the follower thing and how to test for it.

#2 CW45 fixes by GB6491, his even shows some \photos of his work done on the followers.