How to get a clean mag drop on CM9/PM9

[Joe L]

I've done a little experimenting with my CM9 and its 6 round magazines. When I got the pistol, the magazines were tight in the frame and would not drop. I checked and smoothed the inside of the magwell and polished the mag release face, nothing really helped. Then I measured the width of the magazine at the top. They were all 0.492-0.495 inches near the lips. Down lower on the magazine the width was less. I squeezed the mags in a vise very carefully at the lips to get the width down under 0.490. Problem solved. Follower still free, rounds still free, no problems at all. Then I polished the mags with 600 grit and some Flitz, especially above the mag catch slot, to smooth the insertion. Now I have 3 perfect mags and a perfect CM9 and am comfortable trying it in an IDPA club match next month. If I practice some more!

I also added the CW40 base plates and base plate retainers to these magazines for a little more pinky grip and to take the ground hits on drops.

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-hg4KHq8/1/L/i-hg4KHq8-L.jpg

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-hKkQGHc/0/L/i-hKkQGHc-L.jpg

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-98GtscM/0/L/i-98GtscM-L.jpg

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-Dvr3jQZ/0/L/i-Dvr3jQZ-L.jpg

[Papa13]

Where did you get your base, etc., your mags looks great. just recently got a CM9, and like that with the mags, and also got to see if front sights can be changed and all. Have only run 100 rounds so far but have had no problems at all. First Kahr, and really like it so far.

[Joe L]

Where did you get your base, etc., your mags looks great.

Got the retainers and the mag base plates from Kahr direct. Not cheap, for plastic. I removed the lip at the front of the base plate with a Dremel and some 600 grit. Go look at the CW40 parts list for magazines and you will see what I bought.

I did the same thing on my PM40 mags and base plates. It works great also.

Joe

[mightymouse]

Great tip, but another DIY required being a Kahr owner. On my Kahr 6 rnd mags, one drops, the other tight. I'll have to measure.
I don't really mind fiddling around with the CM9, but really wish Meccanica Del Sarca (Beretta) would take over their magazine production. Seems the Italians have the corner on high quality mag production.

[Joe L]

I kinda like making these very small adjustments to get the gun exactly the way I want. I have a three dot rear sight coming to. And I've adjusted the sights already. My 1 month old gun looks old! It is definitely mine, all mine.

Joe

[garyb]

Good input for those who are having a mag drop problem and want it corrected. I've been lucky with all my PM40 mags...no problems. But if I do develop a problem, now I know where to start looking. A final buffing with Johnsons Floor Paste Wax helps too. An old wood worker's trick to get the surface of metal parts to be slick and protected without sticky residue. TX.

[jocko]

nice job and good photos to back it up. That is what helps alot---PHOTOS AI am sure most all issues are mag related andnot magwell related and ur fix kinda proves that point to.

again nice work and as long as thefollower moves upward freely --SQUEEZE AWAY

[jb7304]

I have two 6 round mags that don't drop free and one 6 round mag that does drop free.

Thanks for the tip, I will have to measure them and see what I have.

[Joe L]

Got the retainers and the mag base plates from Kahr direct. Not cheap, for plastic. I removed the lip at the front of the base plate with a Dremel and some 600 grit. Go look at the CW40 parts list for magazines and you will see what I bought.

I did the same thing on my PM40 mags and base plates. It works great also.

Joe

Note that I also had to take 0.030 or so off the top of the CW9 baseplate to allow full insertion of the magazine. If you just put the baseplates on the magazines and insert them in the pistol, the mag release won't catch.

Also, if you try using the metal base plate retainer with the plastic baseplate, the baseplate will fly off the first time it hits the ground. You can push the plastic baseplate off the magazine without depressing the metal retainer plate. You MUST use the plastic retainer plate with the plastic baseplate.

[Bawanna]

Good way to remove the unsightly gap between mag base and frame. Do you still end up with a little gap to be able to make the catch work or is it closer to flush?

[Joe L]

Good way to remove the unsightly gap between mag base and frame. Do you still end up with a little gap to be able to make the catch work or is it closer to flush?
Just enough to that you can see the metal magazine with a light, probaby 0.020 gap all the way around with the magazine latched in place. All the way around is the important part.

[Joe L]

I didn't have to squeeze the new 8 round mag I received from Kahr today, haven't measured it either. It was fine, dropped without modifications or even polishing, but I polished it up some anyway.

[atm7819]

Nice DIY and great photos. I am a new CM9 owner and still soaking up all the info on here. How about a picture of an inserted mag so we can see the gap (or lack of)?

[Joe L]

Here are photos, as requested...
http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-jHsrTvK/0/M/i-jHsrTvK-M.jpg

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-z2c5c5n/0/M/i-z2c5c5n-M.jpg

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-GRFPgZn/0/M/i-GRFPgZn-M.jpg

These also show the pinky wrap provided by the small extension of the plastic base plate.

Joe

[Devo6684]

Good post! Someday I will pick up a CM9, but for now the info you provided will help with the same issue i have with my CW9. Failure to have the mags drop freely is very frustrating. Thanks again!

[Joe L]

Devo6684--At least worth checking on your gun. Keep in mind that 0.005" difference in magazine width is all it takes to be the difference between drop clean and drag. This seems to be the result simply of the tolerance during manufacture of the mag when the lips are formed. I think this is why some mags drop and some don't. The tolerance in the gun's magwells seems to much tighter--every Kahr gun I tried my mags in behaved exactly the same--a slightly wide mag dragged in every gun, one under 0.490 always dropped. Note also that my calipers are not machine shop quality, so just measure yours and squeeze it 2-3 thou from your starting point and try it in your gun. Also take some 600 paper wrapped around a screwdriver shaft or punch and smooth the surface of the mag catch where the mag makes contact when being inserted.

Joe

[OldLincoln]

Something to look at when putting the squeeze on your mags is bullet wiggle. If they wiggle side to side excessively before the squeeze it should tighten them up a bit in the process, for as you know, "Loose Lips Sink Ships."

Not just a funny.... those who leak rounds in their pockets might find this helps keep them where they belong.

[jb7304]

Joe L

Did you remove the follower and spring when you squeezed the mag in the vice?

[Joe L]

Joe L

Did you remove the follower and spring when you squeezed the mag in the vice?

Nope, just pushed it down 1/2 way with a toothbrush handle.

[gb6491]

Nice DIY and great photos...
I agree; very well done Joe L:)
Regards,
Greg

[k421incubus]

This worked perfectly. I just picked up a CM9 today, and the magazine wouldn't come out without a firm pull.

After a couple small adjustments, the mag drops perfectly now. Thanks a bunch!

[Joe L]

I'm glad I was able to help. Just trying to help others here as I have been helped. This is a great forum that has been a lot of help to many people. If I can come up with about 20 more good ideas, I will be getting closer to repaying the more experienced people here for all their help.
Joe

[Sgt_Rock]

I picked up a CM9 about a month ago. The mag that came with it would not drop without pulling on it. I checked the clearance on it from top to bottom of the mag well and it was smooth until it got to the top by the receiver. I just sanded the inside of the well from the top side being very careful and it then dropped free.

Next I bought 2 more new 6 rd mags. They dropped free also without any further modifications. I wanted to be able to accept any mags without having to modify each magazine so that is why I modified only the mag well.

What I noticed on my original mag was that it had good clearance until the last 1/2" of the top inside the magwell so I dont believe the magazine was "flared" so much as the magwell is tapered. Also I noticed that when fully inserted the clearance between the walls of the well and the magazine itself were not even even with the release depressed. I guess that is what you get with plastic.

[jocko]

nice job..

[stumprat]

Glad I found this thread. I had been irritated that all 3 of my CM 9 6 round mags would stick when released.
Took a look at them tonight. And sure enough. A noticable swell at the feed lips. Gave the mags a pinch with some chanelock pliers. Problem solved!

Great post!

[Ressom]

With this mod to the magazines (sqeezing slightly) are the magazines falling completely out of the magwell? I haven't done the mod, but when I press the mag release, my magazines fall about an inch and then I need to pull them out. Is that normal?

[bobthegunslinger]

thanks!my 6 round mag that came with my cm 9 was not quite drop free;so after just squeezing the mag towards the top near the feed lips with pliers and a rag with mag disassembled just squezzing a little bit did the job!after reassembling the mag it is now completely drop free!i have two 7 round kahr arms k820 mags on the way from tsgcom(the gun source)for $64.97 shipped and i will check these as well!

[garyb]

Good thread Joe L...and should be a sticky. All my mags drop and I'd expect that if someone's mag did not drop freely, they might try your solution. Then again, some may not care about the tactical advantage.

Even if Kahr farms out their mag production, they "should" QC check all mags before leaving their factory so they would have one less complaint about their product. However, this problem is not exclusive to Kahr. My handgun trainer has the same problem with one of his Glock mags. I will make him aware of your solution.

Helpful info to the forum and thanks for sharing and this needs to be a sticky!

[jocko]

my one G19 mag stick, kinda hard to squeeze plastic. I can live with it, as I don't carry a spare mag ever..

[Joe L]

Glad to see some of our new members have seen and used some of the fixes presented here. Carry on. I can shoot a camera better than a pistol sometimes.
Joe

[tomwalshco]

my one G19 mag stick, kinda hard to squeeze plastic. I can live with it, as I don't carry a spare mag ever..

They're stainless, just wrapped in a thin layer of polymer or plastic. Squeeze away.

[Ressom]

With this mod to the magazines (sqeezing slightly) are the magazines falling completely out of the magwell? I haven't done the mod, but when I press the mag release, my magazines fall about an inch and then I need to pull them out. Is that normal?

I went back and did this mod and now my magazines fly out of the gun! Went out and tested and they still feed perfectly.

The trick is to pinch near the top third of the magazine after you remove or push down the follower.

[jmk1138]

In the FWIW category, I had problems with one dropping (one 6rounder worked), but then I polished it nice and shiny and didn't have any problems.

I was going to come on here and post something about the black baseplate, too. I slipped it right on and it works well. I've only tested with snap caps by running malfunction drilss and everything seems to work well.

[southernjeepn06]

So i've read this whole thread and I decided to go measure my new CM9s mag. Using my calipers it measures .486 near the top. When I push the mag release it drops 1/2" or so then stops. I checked the magwell to see where the mag was "dragging" and it wasn't on the sides at all but on the front face of the magwell.

Should I consider taking a small file to the inside of my magwell to shake the excess? I have 2-7 round magazines coming in the next few days so I will check them before I do anything. Just didn't see anyone stating that they have the same problem as me.

[Micha2u]

For what it's worth, I also had the problem with mags on my CM9 that would not drop free. After reading this thread I understood the proceedure but was a bit concerned about squeezing my magazines.

After disassembling my magazines and inserting them into the frame, I carefully looked and at the magazines (using soot) to determine where they were getting hung up on the frame. I then cut a small (1/2 " x 1/2") piece of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and attached it to the magazine where it was grabbing on the frame with some 2-side sticky tape. I inserted and removed the magazine 5 times.

This removed just enough of the polymer frame to allow for free-fall dropping of all my magazines.

Again...for what it's worth... I was more comfortable with removing the small amount of polymer on the frame than squeezing my mags and this worked well for me. My mags all fall free with no hangups.

[Joe L]

Micha2u--good point. I did clean up the magwell before I squeezed the magazines and then only when I verified some were wider than others.

[Micha2u]

I should add that my magazines all measured less than 0.490 near the lips and were still hanging up in my CM9. This measurement was what you were squeezing down to on yours and I was already there.

Taking off the small amount of polymer the way I did it was AFTER I measured all my mags and found them all to to measure the same at the "squeezed down' dimension that you were targeting.

[southernjeepn06]

i try what you posted. I received my new mags over the weekend and they also stuck. I can def tell it's hanging up on the front wall of the mag well before the mag release "spring". I'll try the sandpaper

[Brad737]

Jocko,
Glock mags are metal-lined. Give it a squeeze!



my one G19 mag stick, kinda hard to squeeze plastic. I can live with it, as I don't carry a spare mag ever..

[mikeg26]

Thanks, Joe L, for the magazine lip modification. My one CM9 magazine stuck and one slight clamp with a machine vise with the follower held back did the trick!

Other than that, I shot another 120 rounds yesterday with no problems except that I have to learn to shoot it better.

MikeG26

[FiddleDog]

I thought that they had not intended the mags to drop free. Aren't the rails inside the grip there to retain the magazine?

[Joe L]

I thought that they had not intended the mags to drop free. Aren't the rails inside the grip there to retain the magazine?
No. The rails are there to minimize contact area yet keep the magazine straight in the frame. Very effective if everything is in spec.
Joe

[Brad737]

IMHO, that would be a ludicrous design point. Let's face it. As nice as Kahrs are to shoot, they aren't designed to be range plinkers. They're designed to be tiny CCWs. With such small mag capacities, a reload is virtually guaranteed if you're attacked by more than one thug. Why make it more difficult to perform a reload in a high-stress situation?


I thought that they had not intended the mags to drop free. Aren't the rails inside the grip there to retain the magazine?

[Bawanna]

As ludicrous as it may sound I recall seeing at one time that indeed Kahr designed it so the mags would not drop completely. They drop about 1/2 to 1 inch and you pull the rest of the way.
They have I've heard addressed the drop issue for people who prefer they drop and cured them when sent back.

I like them to drop out and I can use the empty mag in my PM45 as a last resort projectile. Point at the sky and hit the eject button and it will fly accross the room, maybe just enough to stun my attacker.

[jocko]

NO UR RIGHT GREAT ONE. In the manual by kahr it says to take themagazine out of the gun press the mgazine release button and then PULL the magazine out of the gun. I don't remember reading them saying it will fly out of the gun on its own. My two in my PM9 drop about what u posted. No complaints from me. IMO to much rambo TV stuff on this fast reloading stuff. What are talking about her 20 seconds mmore to pull the magazine out of thegun, 10 seconds, 5 seconds, 1 second??? I can tell you I am very fast at getting my magazine out of my gun course after that event I am basically screwed as i don't carry a spare magazine. If I can't do it in 7 more than likely I am dead. How many gun fights can anyone relate to where more than 7 shots was fired by one defending himself. Not count cops who can carry a bozopoka exposed with no grief from people and certainly not counting the BG whose motive is to shoot as many rounds as he can with bgasically no escape plan. I am talking about plain ol John Doe who carrys concealed. To much TV for me I guess. Actually for me I know of only one person on this forum that has evfger fired his gunin defense and it was a 380 and he sur ein hell didn't empty the gun, nor need a reload. How many members do we have 8000+-? Pretrty low percentage of anyhone even having to draw their weapon in anger/defense.

Now I now what I just said goes against the grain of many here, but this is my opinion and definitely like assholes, we all have one..

[Ubaldo99]

Jocko... Im right there with you 101%. If Im involved in a firefight (God forbid) and it goes beyond 6+1 then I dont figure to be among the quick anyway. Like you, I dont carry a spare mag. Im not looking to get into WWIII. Im too old to fight; too slow to run. Im not a fast draw artist; nor, am I a trick shot. I go to the target range for normal practice purposes. I carry concealed purely for personal protection purposes, and even that has its limitations. I try to practice situational awareness, and to be realistic about my own limitations.

[Popeye]

[QUOTE= I carry concealed purely for personal protection purposes, and even that has its limitations. I try to practice situational awareness, and to be realistic about my own limitations.[/QUOTE]

+1 That sort of thinking will do more for you than any pistol ever will.

[Scoundrel]

We're getting close to my viewpoint on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&feature=related

The commenters bash this video on a number of points, and they are valid points. But still, I think it demonstrates its subject very well.

They did play mean tricks by having the subjects wear long, stretchy shirts, big gloves, and bulky headgear. But those things were needed to compensate for it not being a "real" scenario and to simulate the loss of fine motor skills and the tunnel vision.

If I was in a situation like this, I'd like to think that my instinct will be to hide first, then see about getting the gun out when/if it makes sense to do so.
Crowded room, someone comes in with gun in hand and already shooting, that's a bad time to try and pull a concealed gun.

...and then getting around to the topic of discussion: If I have successfully survived long enough to get cover, get my gun out, and strategically empty it, then I hope to also be able to pull the magazine out in such a way that the BG won't hear it clinking on the floor while I fumble for my next one. that's assuming I have a next one with me (most of the time I don't), because (and here's the next logical progression of the discussion) it's not convenient to carry an extra magazine all of the time. So I'd do my best to make the 7 shots I have with me count.

So to recap our hypothetical scenario:
BG bursts in, shooting.
I duck for cover and, finding myself still alive, carefully dig out my gun.
After waiting for my moment, it presents itself, and I pick my shots carefully.
Hopefully, at that point, I don't need any more bullets.

All of this is, of course, highly dependent on the situation, and you can poke as many holes in my "plan" as you can in a paper target at the range. And detailed discussions about what we could/would/will do in these situations is about as relevant to what will actually happen as putting holes in paper vs. putting holes in a BG.

[muggsy]

With a gun you have a chance. Without a gun you have none.

[ToneSurfer]

How does that size 3 Blackhawk fit? I'm looking for a holster and I think my Academy has those in stock (for cheap).

[ToneSurfer]

How does that size 3 Blackhawk fit? I'm looking for a holster and I think my Academy has those in stock (for cheap).


Answered my own question. I grabbed the Blackhawk size 3 at Academy. Fits just fine. I can't imagine going with a size 4, the gun would just get swallowed by the hoster. Size 3 fits perfect.

[Dustypuddle]

Wow Just recived my new cm9 today brought it home read the book. Then I Played with it unloaded and it took both my thumbs to realease the slide, They say there tight but is this normal. Im not a young buck at 57 but im no wus eather. I hope it will break in over time.

[ToneSurfer]

Wow Just recived my new cm9 today brought it home read the book. Then I Played with it unloaded and it took both my thumbs to realease the slide, They say there tight but is this normal. Im not a young buck at 57 but im no wus eather. I hope it will break in over time.

Word is that if you have an UNLOADED mag in the gun it makes it much harder to drop the slide with the slide release. If you had a mag in try it without and see if it makes a difference.

They will losen up with use. I'm a left and I drop the slide with the index finger of my shooting hand no problem.

[Thunder71]

The problem with my new magazines doesn't seem to be so much this, but the front to back dimensions - they squeeze in from front to the back, seems that's where the problem is (for me anyway).

[muggsy]

Most people think that they know how they will react in a high stress situation. What they think seldom reflects reality. The only thing that one can do is practice good gun handling/shooting techniques and hope that your training take over should the need arise. I carry a spare mag in a mag holster on my weak side. It's easier to conceal than my gun and weighs little. I hope that I never have to reach for it, but it's there if needed. I practice making mag changes as often as possible.

[muggsy]

How to;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAFxgQmxbGI

[ToneSurfer]

Ok help me understand this perfectly.

Are you putting the entire top end of the mag into the vise? Hence when you squeeze it you are compressing the mag even across the four corners (front left, front right, rear left, rear right)? I.E. the corners get squished too.

OR

Are you pinching just the middle portion of the mag so that you are just bending effectively the sides of mag "in-between" the corners?

If I were to guess, I'd go with the first option as that would keep the feed lips and everything square. Option 2 I could see would end up "warping" the lips in between.

None of my mags drop free and I'm thinking of trying this out.

[claycooper]

Tonesurfer - I just did this and got perfect results.

I took pliers and firmly squeezed the wide (where the round indicator holes are) sides of the magazine from the base all the way up to the lips, with a bit more pressure on the lips.

At first I did it too much on the sides near the top and the follower got stuck right near the top. This will lead the the magazine not popping out easily because the follower is stuck at the top and the spring wont decompress well. The spring decompression gives the magazine the initial "pop" to get it going. Also, you will know you did the lips too much if you get FTF because the round is getting stuck at the lips. I did that at first too. I then went back and used pliers to gently open the lips until the follower moved freely and the rounds fed and voila! Drops freely and feeds perfectly! Even slingshotting at the slowest possible speed chambers a round every time. Before the mod I could barely pull the mag out.

[Pappy]

Joe L......:)

Im a little confused on which base plates and retainers you used on your 6 round mags for the CM9.....I really like the way they look and fit...:D

Did you use....CW40 base plates and retainers or CW9 base plates and retainers...

Sorry Im new at this....:confused:.....But Im gonna do it...:o

[Joe L]

I think they were CW9 but I'm not sure the 40s aren't the same. Check the Kahr site and compare the parts numbers. Glad I could help. Mine are still working perfectly.
Joe

[Pappy]

Thanks for your reply....I will check it out further....:D