What changes would you make to Kahrs...

[ripley16]

If you could... if you were in charge... if you were the new designer...

What changes would you make to Kahrs? What would you do to make the Kahr line your perfect gun?

Here are some changes or additions I'd like to have made... if I were King of the Kahr;

* Different standard sights or at least normal three dot sights offered as standard. That would be easy to do.

* A slightly longer length of pull, that is the distance from the front of the trigger to the back strap. Big hands don't always feel comfy on a Kahr.

* Same problem, different solution... interchangable back straps, on at least the polymer guns. I have this on other brands and it works well to get a custom fit. HK's P30 offers some 20+ combinations.

* Double strike. A true DA. Even if it were heavier, at least it would be there.

* Change takedown so that pulling the trigger is not reguired. I always thought that's a safety thing. Probability is that someone, somewhere, sometime will screw up... people being what they are and all.

* Redesign the follower so it doesn't drop rounds or nose-dive.

There, that's the start of my list. What would you do, if anything, to make your Kahrs perfect for your use and enjoyment?

[Willieboy]

I would like a shorter reset on the trigger... on the order of a Glock.

Melted slide would be nice on a carry pistol.

Three dots.

Flush fit magazines.

And a Kahr that would do my yard work which is hanging over my head today.

[BuckeyeBlast]

I like the sights, I like the trigger. Hammer fire is something I would consider.

The #1 thing I would do is REDESIGN THE SLIDE STOP!!!

Oh, and I would also do something with that trigger bar that sticks up on the right side of the frame.

[melissa5]

short 1911 style trigger :D

[mightymouse]

-Sub out the magazines to Italy.
-Have the design team clean up the bottom plate so it is consistent, flush with the lines/ materials of the rest of the gun.
-Takedown like my Beretta where no pieces are removed, no tools needed. Flip a lever and slide pops off. Slide it on and lever snaps back.
-Add a metal sight to the CM line. Such quality throughout the gun, and then plastic.
-Better out the door QC, shooting ready guns. All this file here, sand there, squeeze mag in a vise, rack 500 times. Not everyone likes to fiddle with, albeit simple things to make them reliable.
-Another vote for 3 dots



And a Kahr that would do my yard work which is hanging over my head today.
Do the Kahr poster girls mow lawns?

[Longitude Zero]

Shorter trigger reset
Three dot night sights stock

[BuckeyeBlast]

I'm really surprised how many prefer the 3 dots sights.

[Tilos]

Take that stupid, finger rubbing, bump out of the trigger guard.
just sayin'
Tilos

[crazymailman]

Slide stop, follower & mag base.

[CJB]

Hmmm.

I don't mind the sights, "pattern VonStavenhagen" as Sig uses. Dot the i, or whatever ya wanna call 'em. They're ok.

Trigger... could get nick picky on the pull - BUT ROUND THE DAMN EDGES on the trigger itself. Those front corners, those sharp edges... jeeze its a double action only pistol, you'd think they'd do up the trigger so it would be more comfy.

INTERCHANGEABLE back straps, to accommodate different hands.

Flat .45 magazine base

Lanyard loop option!

Factory porting option.

Better melt on PM's

Guttersnipe sight option.

Better melt on slide stop

My striker spring retainer mod!~ (of course)

Frame colors option

Oh the usual fare......

[TheTman]

I'd like to see an all metal .45
Melissa, you were kidding about the trigger weren't you? I'd hate to see them put a 1911 style trigger on the Kahr, that is the main reason I bought the Kahr was that long double action trigger that ain't gonna go off by accident. Some of us older shaky guys need a little wriggle room on the trigger on our CC weapon, now for target shooting, I'll take that 1911 trigger every time.

[melissa5]

I'd like to see an all metal .45
Melissa, you were kidding about the trigger weren't you? I'd hate to see them put a 1911 style trigger on the Kahr, that is the main reason I bought the Kahr was that long double action trigger that ain't gonna go off by accident. Some of us older shaky guys need a little wriggle room on the trigger on our CC weapon, now for target shooting, I'll take that 1911 trigger every time.

No, I wasn't kidding. I don't see a problem if you carry it in a holster. OK maybe. How about a Glock style trigger? DAO is not my favorite trigger system.

[mr surveyor]

sounds like Melissa needs to check out the Kimber Solo.

Personally, I bought my CW9 because I DID like everything it had to offer. If I wanted it to be something else, I would have looked elsewhere. Now, with all the new wonder nines on the market (Sig, Kimber, Kahr, Ruger, Diamondback, etc), there's plenty of variety to choose from. I like variety and my small collection shows that....Kimber, Sig, Beretta, Kel-Tec, Ruger, Mossberg, Kahr, Marlin, Laurona, J.C. Higgins...even an old RG14, as well as a few antiques. That doesn't near cover the list of all the others I have parted ways with over the years. Every one I keep (except for a few with special meaning) has a particular use, or a percieved use. If they don't fit my personal physical requirements, or don't prove to fit my needs, or prove to be unreliable, I move on to the next model.

There's a whole world of fine firearms out there, and most folks will probably never find the perfect firearm for all possible needs or applications.

Set your phasers to stun:D


surv

[Willieboy]

Good idea CJB on the Gutter Snipe sights.

[Bawanna]

I'd like metal inserts any where a screw has to screw into poly. Make all the slide stops like the K.
I like the factory sights, I would like a shorter reset on the trigger but for it's purpose the long smooth pull is just right for me.
Flush mags would be nice but that's just cosmetic.
I've been locked out all morning, we'll see if this gets thru.

[melissa5]

sounds like Melissa needs to check out the Kimber Solo.

surv

No, I read that the trigger pull is 7 lbs on the Solo. For what's on the market right now, I think the PM9 is the best.

[Bawanna]

Melissa being a recent 1911 convert is naturally and expectedly enamored with the awesome 1911 trigger. I too don't care much for DAO and really don't like DA/SA. I used to but once I went to Para's LDA I found I couldn't shoot em very good any more.

I do get along fine with the kahr trigger transitioning between it and a 1911. I personally would not care much for a glock type trigger either, too short and unforgiving. To me the only real downfall to the kahr trigger is the long reset and I think we're your staring down the elephant you probably won't even notice it anyhow.

Far as finding the perfect firearm, I think I came as close as I'll get with my Cbob. To me its just close to perfect.

[Bill K]

Good idea CJB on the Gutter Snipe sights.

Curious as to why you guys would want this change made to the Kahr. What do you guys see as the pros and cons vs. the current Kahr sights or 3 dot for that matter.

Thanks,
Bill K.

[Bawanna]

Curious as to why you guys would want this change made to the Kahr. What do you guys see as the pros and cons vs. the current Kahr sights or 3 dot for that matter.

Thanks,
Bill K.

Many like that type of sight for a pocket gun so theres nothing to hang up. Many prefer kahrs because they have real sights so I guess you can't have it both ways. I suppose they could offer both versions but I personally doubt the gutter sight would be a hot mover.

Many don't like the kahr sights but they work very well for me. I like the XS sight system which many people don't care for either so again I guess it's all personal preference.

[melissa5]

I really like the "dot the i" sights on the PM9.

[kb2wji]

Make all models all metal, but as light as the PM series. And I want 3 or 4 more rounds of capacity without going double stack, and without making the grip longer. And while ur at it, please bag all my groceries in one bag, but dont make it heavy.

[Rainman48314]

"Better out the door QC, shooting ready guns. All this file here, sand there, squeeze mag in a vise, rack 500 times. Not everyone likes to fiddle..."
[Let me add that I no longer own a vise, have never owned a caliper micrometer and shy away from 85% of DIY jobs]

I'd like a 6# SA trigger and a thumb safety (see Kimber Solo or Sig P238).

EASIER disassembly

Better pricing (a P380 needs to be more tempting, especially since new owners will need to tinker and shoot lot$ of ammo before the gun is ready to carry).

Kahr always picking up shipping costs when there really is a problem.

[CS534]

-Better magazine design, more traditional loading and no nose dives or rounds that move
-The slide release to chamber around is quirky
-Flush fit mags
-Less agressive checkering on the front strap
-Better quality control..after spending so much on the gun there should be no reason that it is not ready out of the box-no prepping
-Lower the prices
-Lifetime warranty

[G3709]

I like to have shorter trigger reset, t.a.s. style sight option instead of guttersnipe sighting system that looks good in theory but does not really work with every eyesight (I have guttersnipe on my ASP but learned to point and shoot), better magazine design so cartridge would not move forward because of recoil, add external safety as option, just like the PM9 MA, and better quality control.

[ripley16]

I'm a little surprised no one mentioned;

a rail under the dust cover to attach their favorite light or laser.

a decocker. I'd like that myself.

more calibers offered. A P22 or K22 would be great.

suppressor ready barrels. That could be an aftermarket, alternate manufacturer item I guess.

[cgarcop]

1-better quality control. A $700 gun shouldnt have to be shipped back to the manufacturer 2x to made right. And along that note, eliminate the shipping fee for warranty work.

2-Flush fit mags. kahr pistols are a thing of beauty. Well designed and compact. like gems. The ill fitting mags give it a sloppy look. more thought could have gone into that aspect.

Aside from the mags, which is just cosmetic, i wouldnt change a thing about the pistols themselves. An all black CM9 would be nice.

[OldLincoln]

I agree with the quality control being #1. I think it is improving, but needs fluff & buff stations for components that rub together & clean out the striker channel.

Once that is done, fit the mags better, closing the gap, make them drop freely, and not loose rounds in the pocket.

I'm guessing most complaints we see from new owners would go away with these two items.

[Jitterbug]

I agree with the quality control being #1. I think it is improving, but needs fluff & buff stations for components that rub together & clean out the striker channel.

Once that is done, fit the mags better, closing the gap, make them drop freely, and not loose rounds in the pocket.

I'll second the above.

Regarding the trigger.

Sorry Melissa... please don't fix it, leave it alone.

I'm a big time fan and user of the 1911, and I love light triggers, all of mine have them, but for the PM9 and what it's designed for, the current PM9 trigger is perfect. I transition back and forth between PM9 and 1911 without issue all the time.

Next perfect trigger in a sub gun, pocket pistol is the S&W J frame, but this takes time to master and in my opinion the Kahr system is superior, as it is in many ways to the J-frame.

[rwblue01]

#1. Quality control needs to be fixed. My PM9 will be going back to the factory on my dime. So right now I am not happy with Kahr. You will probably see me bitching about Kahrs QC/QA on multiple forums.
#2. They have a magazine problem. I expect my gun to run with ANY factory mag.
#3. I would like gills along the entire length of the slide because sometime I don’t grab the slide at the right spot.
#4. I don’t like the end of the main spring. The little wire that can poke people is not necessary. They need to make both ends the same.
#5. The front of the magazine well needs to be beveled like the sides.
#6. I like the glock trigger system. I like the glock safety on the trigger. I don’t think they can do this for patent reasons.
#7. I would like a shorter trigger pull. I am not asking for much here, but my big hands and this gun….. A quarter of an inch would really help.

It is the details that make me question if this gun is worth the money.

[Rainman48314]

#1. Quality control needs to be fixed. My PM9 will be going back to the factory on my dime. So right now I am not happy with Kahr. You will probably see me bitching about Kahrs QC/QA on multiple forums.
#2. They have a magazine problem. I expect my gun to run with ANY factory mag.
#3. I would like gills along the entire length of the slide because sometime I don’t grab the slide at the right spot.
#4. I don’t like the end of the main spring. The little wire that can poke people is not necessary. They need to make both ends the same.
#5. The front of the magazine well needs to be beveled like the sides.
#6. I like the glock trigger system. I like the glock safety on the trigger. I don’t think they can do this for patent reasons.
#7. I would like a shorter trigger pull. I am not asking for much here, but my big hands and this gun….. A quarter of an inch would really help.

It is the details that make me question if this gun is worth the money.

If Ruger can copy the Glock trigger safety, and M&P devise their own hinged version, Kahr shouldn't have a problem. I still prefer a 1911 type setup with a thumb safety.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Man, I'm also surprised how many don't like the trigger! I mean, that trigger is one of the things that makes a Kahr, a Kahr IMO.

[MW surveyor]

^^^^Buckeye - I'm with you on this ^^^^

If I had wanted a Glock, I would have bought one.

[CJB]

Man, I'm also surprised how many don't like the trigger! I mean, that trigger is one of the things that makes a Kahr, a Kahr IMO.

I dunno... to tell ya the truth, the Sig P250 has a nice trigger too, for a DAO. And it resets itself for 2nd strike capability.

Dunno how useful the 2nd strike really is - pro and con on that. I'd rather have 2nd strike and not use it, than not have it and wish I had.

[Rainman48314]

Man, I'm also surprised how many don't like the trigger! I mean, that trigger is one of the things that makes a Kahr, a Kahr IMO.Some feel that the job of a trigger is to fire the gun, not to be pressed into service as a safety device. If you think about firing the gun, logically, you think about accuracy and repeatability. A SA does this better and easier than a DAO. My two cents...which probably reflects the fact I did not grow up on revolvers.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Some feel that the job of a trigger is to fire the gun, not to be pressed into service as a safety device. If you think about firing the gun, logically, you think about accuracy and repeatability. A SA does this better and easier than a DAO. My two cents...which probably reflects the fact I did not grow up on revolvers.

I agree w/ you on the safety thing, but I just happen to like the feel of the trigger. I wouldn't want a 'fire button' on a handgun. Not only does it fire the gun, but it's an integral part of the feel of the gun. Hey, if I'm in the minority - then so be it. :cool:

[TucsonMTB]

Ya' know, I like the design. Even the goofy trigger guard is OK, now that I realize the edge of the larger open area, not the inward lump, is what's whacking the heque out of my trigger finger when shooting the PM40. After all, it's a plastic defense pistol, not a 1911. :p

But, man could those guys building the slides use some counseling. The surface on both my breach faces is dismal and the extractor is an obstacle to proper feeding. Both only needed several sessions of polishing to cure their ills. Kahr's reliance on break in rounds to do that just doesn't seem right, especially when the starting finish is so poor that breaking in the pistol is not sufficient to achieve reliable feeding.

Yeah, I feel a little smug that even though Kahr customer service did not make my PM40 run well with my chosen carry ammo, I was able to by polishing the breach face. But, I didn't need the grief leading to that realization, nor the ineffective trip back to Kahr. At least shipping was on their dime, but they could have saved themselves money and me grief with just a little more attention to detail in that area. Horizontal machine marks in the breach face (PM40) are not a good feature. Even the vertical machine marks in the breach face of the CW40, while not troublesome, certainly make the pistol look cheaper than the $430 dealer sticker price at our local Sportsman's Warehouse. :rolleyes:

Whacks side of head . . . yeah, they are not 1911's. I need to get over that. :D

[ltxi]

Pretty much change nothing.

A shorter trigger would require a safety. I have 1911s for that. The slick revolver like/length pull is a serious plus on the PM9.

[yqtszhj]

Every Kahr should come with a shooting range close by so that we can save money on gas and spend the savings on more ammo.

[gkstemple]

Start a Quality Control Program. Right now I can not recommend Kahr to first-time gun buyers who may well need to defend their lives the very night of the day they bought the pistol. Incompletely machined and out-of-spec parts belong in the reject/recycle bins, not in customer's guns.

I believe a RELIABLE .22 would help build brand loyalty (much as it has in the past for Colt, Ruger, etal).
Shorter trigger reset, but not at the expense of harder trigger pull.
"Dot-the-I" night sight option across all product lines.
Flush-fit magazines that don't project up to 0.35" beyond the bottom of the frame.
Metal inserts where screws are used in polymer frames AND nyloc-style screws used there.

[rwblue01]

If Ruger can copy the Glock trigger safety, and M&P devise their own hinged version, Kahr shouldn't have a problem. I still prefer a 1911 type setup with a thumb safety.

Funny thing is, I can not stand a safety on self defense handgun.

A rifle it is different, a rifle is an offensive weapon.

[TucsonMTB]

Every Kahr should come with a shooting range close by so that we can save money on gas and spend the savings on more ammo.
Mine did! The Pima Pistol Club range (http://pimapistolclub.com/) is an easy mountain bike ride from our house. In fact, I rode over there to shoot earlier today. Life is good! :D

[Rainman48314]

Pretty much change nothing.

A shorter trigger would require a safety. I have 1911s for that. The slick revolver like/length pull is a serious plus on the PM9.But, if you agree that a PM9 is a self defense gun, and that SD implies concealability, the 1911 is not the first or second choice in carry. To me, that means fix the PM9 and make it more 1911 like. Why train with two systems? I eagerly await the availability of the Kimber Solo. Seems like a perfect design.

[jeep45238]

Redesign the fire control mechanism so that there is a short reset between shots.

That honestly was the reason why I sold mine. I ran a front night sight, a plain rear, and never had any problems with dropping rounds out of magazines. Just as, if not more, accurate than my 1911's.

[Jitterbug]

I agree on the QC issues, but as far as being a pocket pistol, I think the PM9 is a tough act to beat, after 7 years with one, I'm sufficiently impressed that I just purchased another...for the wife and if I felt someone had a better design I wouldn't hesitate to try it out, I didn't find one that did.

I'm a Kimber owner, and my 1911 runs fine (at the moment), but I'm not holding my breath on the Solo, nor would I even consider one for at least 2-3 years, not to mention it's a larger gun.

I still use a J frame on occasion, but the PM9 is still #1, for a small, easily concealed pistol in my book. I consider the fire control system a big plus.

[TheTman]

For those that don't like the trigger, why did you buy the Kahr in the first place? The trigger system is what made me decide to go with Kahr for conceal carry. I look at it as basically a DAO revolver in semi form.
If you shorten the trigger pull and make it lighter, then a manual safety would be needed and that kind of defeats the purpose of the gun. It's made to be able to put into action very quickly with no levers to fuss with when needed. In a situation, I don't think the trigger pull is going to be that much of an issue with the adrenilin flowing and all. I'm very happy with it just like it is, although I would like an accessory rail. I'd like to see less problems with the guns, but then again people come here for help, and most don't bother with this site unless they have trouble. I wonder what percentage have to have work done on them? Someone stated less than 1% are returned to the factory, that's not bad. All companies have problem guns. My own experience is one with no problems, and one that had to go back for some major work. I don't mind the break in, as all my semi's require a break in whether the manual states so or not. If there is some polishing on parts or something that could be done to improve reliability the factory should do that. They could put a bevel on the end of the CW45 guide rod, I had them do that when I returned mine to Kahr, and it made it MUCH easier to put the guide rod back into place.

[ripley16]

For those that don't like the trigger, why did you buy the Kahr in the first place?

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I bought my first Kahr because of the size of the gun, it's simplicity, the calibers offered, the thin profile and the pleasant grip. It fit my hand mostly to a tee. As to the trigger on that first Kahr, an early K9... I hated it.

I later tried a Kahr with an elite type trigger and decided I could live with it but it has never been a favorite trigger. If the whole trigger assembly were moved toward the front, say 1/4" or so, the pull would, I believe, feel much more natural and less crimped and crammed into a too small space.

Some folks like Kahr triggers, some don't. Other than the QC/ reliability issues and the mag problems, the gun design is pretty commendable, IMHO.

[DriveMyKahr]

I would like these changes...

· Takedown like my Beretta - no pieces are removed, no tools needed. Flip a lever and the slide comes off.
· 3-dot or dot-the-I night sights standard.
· Interchangeable back straps standard.
· Flush fit magazines.
· Better quality control.
· Lifetime warranty

Don’t even think about changing the trigger pull / fire control system. It took me a long time to master it. But now I’m a believer.

[CJB]

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I bought my first Kahr because of the size of the gun
Now yer talkin'!! Having a lightweight, small, reliable, .45 in your pocket, is a very very comforting feeling.

[jeep45238]

For those that don't like the trigger, why did you buy the Kahr in the first place?

Ergonomics are superb on the T series, as is the build materials and fitting (on mine at least). But, I was faster and more accurate with the SW MP series...so now I have a 4.5" .45ACP one of those, and a 5" 9x19mm one of those.

If I ever get into steel matches, I'll be looking for a 5" .40SW MP model.

[ltxi]

But, if you agree that a PM9 is a self defense gun, and that SD implies concealability, the 1911 is not the first or second choice in carry. To me, that means fix the PM9 and make it more 1911 like. Why train with two systems? I eagerly await the availability of the Kimber Solo. Seems like a perfect design.

The 1911 always has been my first carry choice. But certainly not always the most practical. Having carried slicked up J-frames concealed for much of my life, the PM9 action feels perfectly natural. I think it's great and don't think it needs fixing.

I'm a Kimber fan. I have four. The Solo seems nice and I'll most likely take a good look at it. But unless there's some overriding advantage I see no reason to change.

[orangeandbrown]

Not much to dislike about my Kahrs. Take down would be simplified if the right side of the slide and frame had the "take down alignment marks" also. Metal inserts in the plastic for screws is a great idea. The trigger guard would look alot better without the "speed bump". These are minor gripes about a nearly perfect carry gun.

[OldLincoln]

I stopped using the alignment marks early on. I simply push on the slide stop pin while moving the slide to the rear. It engages when aligned and I simply push the slide back to the notch and pull the pin out. Not more than a couple seconds in the task.

[melissa5]

For those that don't like the trigger, why did you buy the Kahr in the first place?

The PM9 is the best ultra compact 9mm on the market right now.

[BuckeyeBlast]

I can assemble the Kahr in 30 seconds w/ my eyes closed and no tools. Try that w/ a Ruger Mk III. :D

[wyntrout]

The PM9 is the best ultra compact 9mm on the market right now.

Yep, and the P380 is the best 9mm Kurz!

Wynn:D

[Rainman48314]

[QUOTE=thetmanski;78592]For those that don't like the trigger, why did you buy the Kahr in the first place? The trigger system is what made me decide to go with Kahr for conceal carry.QUOTE]

I bought it for its size, reputation, a friend's recommendation, and because I had doubts about getting my smaller Sig P238 to function reliably. Now that my second P238 is 100% with my carry ammo (first P238 was replaced by Sig), it lacks only in caliber. After twice weekly shooting for almost four months, I have to say that I shoot the Sig with its SA trigger much better. I'm still trying to improve with the PM9. The changes I want are both frosting on the cake, and a more familiar trigger. I believe everything can be improved.

[Zippo Guy]

I have had all of my Kahr's grips stippled by Accurate-Iron and would like to see that as an option. The ejector port on my P380 is very sharp. I would like to see that melted a bit.

[Jeremiah/Az]

My PM9 & P380 have been almost perfect, a very few malfs early. Do not change a thing!

In a SHTF situation, you ain't gonna see the sights anyway!

I would like to see a .22 lr or .22 mag the size of a P380.:cool:

[wyntrout]

I just want a K45... DLC... with NS. DLC not necessary, really, but all SS would be great.

Wynn:)

[ripley16]

I have had all of my Kahr's grips stippled by Accurate-Iron and would like to see that as an option.

I'd vote for that... good idea.

[JFootin]

Hmmm.

My striker spring retainer mod!~ (of course)......

CJB, can you give a link to this post?

[DKD]

Mellissa,

I had the opportunity recently to handle a Kimber Solo. I don't care what they posted the trigger pull as ...that was far and away the lightest, smoothest, shortest reset on any gun I have ever handled. That trigger must have been more like 5 lbs, crisp smooth stroke for sure. It is even better than our Kahrs. The fit and finish were supurb. I definatley want one in the future.

[CJB]

CJB, can you give a link to this post?

I didn't actually do it yet. Was going to, but then had the frame issue. What the plan was, is to modify the rear plate of the slide, so you dont have to fiddly fart and grow two spare hands in order get it apart. Involves a precisely centered hole in the plate and also involves a new striker spring guide, with a rearward projection that fits the hole. Use the slide stop to press it, and magazine spring to press the rear extractor spring pin, and the plate would come off very easily.

I wanna get some more rounds through the PM45, then order up a new plate and modify it. Then the pictures can be made.

[JFootin]

Oh, OK. Thanks CJB.

Some commented about the bump in the middle of the trigger guard. I am looking at the Alter Ego Tuckable Reversed IWB Holster (http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/Alter_Ego/alter_ego.html) from High Noon. In this picture, you can see that the retention adjustment screw sits right in the bump of the trigger guard of the Baby Glock. I think this might be the reason for the bump.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/HighNoonAlterEgoHolster.jpg

[mightymouse]

Mellissa,

I had the opportunity recently to handle a Kimber Solo. I don't care what they posted the trigger pull as ...that was far and away the lightest, smoothest, shortest reset on any gun I have ever handled. That trigger must have been more like 5 lbs, crisp smooth stroke for sure. It is even better than our Kahrs. The fit and finish were supurb. I definatley want one in the future.
And, oooh baby, look at how their designers integrated the mag into the grip instead of just hanging out unfinished. Very nicehttp://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/Kimbersolo.jpg.

[Diocoles]

The Solo is looking better all the time to me.
I don't like the external extractor. Kimber had issues with those before.

As far as my Kahr goes, CW9, I love it.

I would like a bit better sights, lower not so high.
I almost considered taking them off but then having the empty grooves wouldn't look good and would snag.

I thought it was me, with it shooting low out of the box or the sights.
Had a pro shooter test it and it's the gun. Sent it back, Kahr replaced the barrel (no charge) and it's great since. I paid shipping there, they paid it back.

I still don't like the sights. They catch on stuff and if they are going to use the dot the i type of sights, the opening in the rear sights I would like to see a bit wider to give more of a front sight picture.

I've thought about replacing them with something else, but don't know what.
Earlier there was a mention of "gutter" sights. I have no idea what that is. I can find references to it, but no definitive picture of what they look like.

I've gotten Meprolight for my Kimber and Trijicon for my Beretta and love them both. GAWD the Meprolights are bright. I can almost use them for a nightlight in my room at night.

The CW series should definitely come with night sights standard and a melt job.
Concealed is the purpose of the CW series after all.....

I just detail disassembled the slide for the first time in years a couple weeks ago. Mostly loose pieces of brass speckles in there. The extractor tip needed a good cleaning but otherwise it was surprisingly clean. Nice engineering.
Yes, I did need 4 hands and double joints to take it apart. That and the firing pin guide is plastic. Sorry, that's a bit cheap for something so important. I was so afraid of breaking it taking it apart and that pin is so .... pitiful.

I love my 2 tone.

I do think the metal inserts are a great idea. That little spring/screw thingy on the left side just does not inspire confidence.

The barrel I've noticed is starting to flake. I think it's called peening (?) I'm not sure. But the right side, just in front of the ejection port is starting to peel like it has a nickel plate or something on it. Otherwise the barrel is immaculate as to polishing compared to any other barrel I've seen straight from the factory. It was mirror bright on the ramp and breech area it's just so pretty. Sorry, can't think of any other way to put it. Wish the whole barrel were that polished, but then you'd just have to show it to blind your opponent and wouldn't have to shoot them.... ar.
Oops, rambling and have to get back to work....

[melissa5]

Mellissa,

I had the opportunity recently to handle a Kimber Solo. I don't care what they posted the trigger pull as ...that was far and away the lightest, smoothest, shortest reset on any gun I have ever handled. That trigger must have been more like 5 lbs, crisp smooth stroke for sure. It is even better than our Kahrs. The fit and finish were supurb. I definatley want one in the future.

:cheer2: That's good to hear. If I ever find one in stock, I intend to dry fire it.

As for my PM9, I'm liking it a lot better since putting in the 5 lb striker spring. During a fast mag dump, the grouping is now more around the center than down and left. :D

[melissa5]

Oh, OK. Thanks CJB.

Some commented about the bump in the middle of the trigger guard. I am looking at the Alter Ego Tuckable Reversed IWB Holster (http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/Alter_Ego/alter_ego.html) from High Noon. In this picture, you can see that the retention adjustment screw sits right in the bump of the trigger guard of the Baby Glock. I think this might be the reason for the bump.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/HighNoonAlterEgoHolster.jpg

I had one of those. It was well made, but was pretty thick and stiff.

[ripley16]

I've thought about replacing them with something else, but don't know what.
Earlier there was a mention of "gutter" sights. I have no idea what that is. I can find references to it, but no definitive picture of what they look like.



Here's a link to a photo of "gutter" sights on a NAA Guardian. Can't get any lower a profile than this! ;)

http://www.naaminis.com/pix/gutsightrear.jpg

[jocko]

And, oooh baby, look at how their designers integrated the mag into the grip instead of just hanging out unfinished. Very nicehttp://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/Kimbersolo.jpg.

be smoother, IT IS 90-% PRECOCKED. It could have a 20# trigger on it and at that percentage ur just going through the motions until u get to the 90% area then it is a bang thing.

Kimber actually calls it "single action"

[balok1701]

How about making full size double stack versions in each caliber. It seems like that would only require a retooling of the polymer lower and magazine. Offering a 4.5" or 5" barrel would be appropriate too. Kahr has the concealed market well covered, but has nothing in the full sized tactical or duty category.

[CJB]

Why offer what is already offered by everyone else out there?

How about .38 Super ? 357 Sig.. etc. That wouldn't take much either. Dunno if they could get a 10mm to hold up, but size wise... its doable without much trouble.

Thing is... there's money to be made in .380, 9mm, 40cal and .45auto. The rest is fringe markets at best. Kahr goes where the money is. I dont blame them! Now is not the time to invest in fringe markets. Go with the bread and butter... safer that way.

[JFootin]

I had one of those. It was well made, but was pretty thick and stiff.

Good to know before spending $100, melissa5. Thanks. In pictures, the Silent Thunder looks thicker. Am I wrong about that?

[OldLincoln]

I didn't actually do it yet. Was going to, but then had the frame issue. What the plan was, is to modify the rear plate of the slide, so you dont have to fiddly fart and grow two spare hands in order get it apart. Involves a precisely centered hole in the plate and also involves a new striker spring guide, with a rearward projection that fits the hole. Use the slide stop to press it, and magazine spring to press the rear extractor spring pin, and the plate would come off very easily.

I wanna get some more rounds through the PM45, then order up a new plate and modify it. Then the pictures can be made.
Great idea!! using a punch through the centered hole, you could push the striker spring forward enough to clear the housing plate and you could just ride the plate up and out.

[wyntrout]

I can't believe they haven't made a K45. Kahr must have at least tried and had problems??

Wynn:confused:

[wyntrout]

Great idea!! using a punch through the centered hole, you could push the striker spring forward enough to clear the housing plate and you could just ride the plate up and out.

Now there's something I would want right in front of my eye or cheek... a back plate weakened with a hole in it!:eek: What if there's a ruptured primer!? Stuff happens!

All you need to use is a stout jeweler's screwdriver to push that pin to the right in far enough to slide the back plate down... without letting all of that stuff behind the striker and the extractor train go flying. With the slide supported on the table and a paper towel, it's a two-hander!

Wynn:)

[Diocoles]

Here's a link to a photo of "gutter" sights on a NAA Guardian. Can't get any lower a profile than this! ;)

http://www.naaminis.com/pix/gutsightrear.jpg


Dang it, I have to wait again till I'm home tonight to check that link. Can't get to it from work. sigh....:(

[ripley16]

didn't actually do it yet. Was going to, but then had the frame issue. What the plan was, is to modify the rear plate of the slide, so you dont have to fiddly fart and grow two spare hands in order get it apart. Involves a precisely centered hole in the plate and also involves a new striker spring guide, with a rearward projection that fits the hole. Use the slide stop to press it, and magazine spring to press the rear extractor spring pin, and the plate would come off very easily.

Great thinking outside of the box, but your solution sounds like it still requires extra hands. Pushing in two pins while holding the slide sounds like three hands, and moving the back panel may require a forth... that is if you could move it enough with the slide stop inserted.

IMHO, the only tool needed is a modified "Ripley Gizmo", with a flat, chisel like point on one end, to facilitate sliding behind the spring guide, a proper length, then a flat, but not chisel shaped, bend on the other end. Kahr probably would be adverse to such a tool, but it would work like a charm. Then you would only need one tool to capture the spring, hold it off the back plate and allow you to depress the rear pin with whatever punch or tool you use and easily slip the plate off of the slide.

This gizmo pictured is only a bent coathanger, but it shows how the tool works to hold the spring until you've removed the back plate. I still need the jewler screwdriver to get behind the spring and pull it away from the back. With the chisel end, you could eliminate needing the screwdriver.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Kahrtool001.jpg

[steve666]

I think every Kahr should come with a free, lifetime supply of quality ammunition!!! And this should be offered retroactively to current owners.http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/signs/smiley-vault-signs-131.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

[Scimmia]

Ripley hit my only suggestion with his first post.

A true DA with double strike.

If you have a double action pistol, might as well be true DA! It's not like Kahr is using a glock-like halfcock, so it wouldn't change the trigger pull much if at all.

[jocko]

i sopmetimes wonder why they calls ome guns true double action. I understand the principal butr double action had tocme from revolvers and whenyou get a misfire ornothing, and u pull the trigger u not on the same round, it just moves the cylinder to the next round. to me kind of a misnomer to me, bvut heh its good advertisng. I always felt if I get a misfire why try to beat the primer to death, do the tap, rack and band drill and get that worthless ass round out of the gun..

[Scimmia]

Because the vast majority of the time, the round will fire on that second strike. I got ahold of some cheap ammo a while ago that wasn't firing all of the time on the first strike in my SW99 (which does have second strike). Second one would almost always do it.

Plus it makes dry fire practice a lot easier. ;)

[jocko]

i'll buy the dry fire theory, but will pass on the other..

[OldLincoln]

Now there's something I would want right in front of my eye or cheek... a back plate weakened with a hole in it!:eek: What if there's a ruptured primer!? Stuff happens!

All you need to use is a stout jeweler's screwdriver to push that pin to the right in far enough to slide the back plate down... without letting all of that stuff behind the striker and the extractor train go flying. With the slide supported on the table and a paper towel, it's a two-hander!

Wynn:)
The back or the striker spring guide is a reound flat deal similar to the recoil spring. It sits in a nook in the rear plate and must be pushed forward to clear it or you cannot get the plate off. Using the hanger device is by far the easiest way to remove the striker assembly, but without that it's more than 2 hands can comfortably handle. I know because I couldn't put my hands on mine the last time I cleaned it out. CJB's idea would eliminate the need for one tool in the process.

I don't know that a redesign of the back plate would necessarily weaken it. I do agree that simply drilling a hole might do it.

As long as the "tool" is in use it doesn't get much easier that that, but if Kahr were re-engineering the design, it could be something to look into.

[steve666]

Internal, guide-rod laser.

[jocko]

Because the vast majority of the time, the round will fire on that second strike.

I trust the tap, rack and bang drill better. "vast majority" is an unknown for me.

[jocko]

I have thought of what cjb has brought up also and a so so smallhole would be all that is needed, would not weaken anything but I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it holds true for that area to. It is not something that one takes down hardly at all, andfor me personally I have not taken my PM9 slide down in over 30,000 rounds. I can spray clean it perfectly through the clean out hole, so although a nice idea, , certainly not needed at all.. a ruptured primer could not blow back thorugh that hole as the striker spring guide back plate would be resting right against that small paper clip type hole.

[OldLincoln]

I can spray clean it perfectly through the clean out hole, so although a nice idea, , certainly not needed at all.

How do you know if you don't look. Only the phantom knows what evil lurks in the heart of the striker channel without looking.

[jlottmc]

The only improvement I would make to Kahr is this: make it so it wipes my ass. That is all that's needed.

[mightymouse]

The only improvement I would make to Kahr is this: make it so it wipes my ass. That is all that's needed.
You could try, but keep your finger off the trigger.

This would work better though...;)
http://bottombuddy.com/images/product_img.jpg

[jlottmc]

I didn't think about that finger on the trigger part. Is that what those body builders who can't bring their arms within 16" of their bodies use?

[Bawanna]

You guys are border line disgusting. Remember we have princess's in our midst.

Besides everyone knows that's what Kel Tecs are for.

[melissa5]

The only improvement I would make to Kahr is this: make it so it wipes my ass. That is all that's needed.

You are gonna shoot your arse off! :eek:

[CJB]

So... has anyone mentioned .22magnum ? Now THAT would be something, if they could pull it off.

[ltxi]

So... has anyone mentioned .22magnum ? Now THAT would be something, if they could pull it off.

The first prize for that would be the, sadly not going into production, NAA Ranger.

[Barth]

I would like these changes...

· Takedown like my Beretta - no pieces are removed, no tools needed. Flip a lever and the slide comes off.
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My only issue is with takedown as well.
(being spoiled by Sig P220 and P239).

As a minor improvement I'd take a K40 slide stop design over the MK40!
I bent the spring on mine - ops...

Oh well, nothings perfect.

[CJB]

The first prize for that would be the, sadly not going into production, NAA Ranger.

AMT had a 22 mag pistol they called the ... 22 "automag" I think http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQep2T5dRHgCCD9jBSHw1e8iHCFGcUd0 LyTVjfqqRWJTX4cSLAj

[Bawanna]

I have one, its my neighbors. It's a work in futility. Major extraction and ejection issues. The term jamomatic comes to mind but I'm not giving up on it.

[CJB]

Barrel ports... for the delayed action...

[jocko]

AMT had a 22 mag pistol they called the ... 22 "automag" I think http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQep2T5dRHgCCD9jBSHw1e8iHCFGcUd0 LyTVjfqqRWJTX4cSLAj

we sold a few back when and they never worked, none, nadda..:7:

[Lobo_79]

My only issue is with takedown as well.
(being spoiled by Sig P220 and P239)...

I agree although I don't have a problem with the take down as much as I'd like to see the mystery removed on how to re-assemble it. Sometimes I feel like it's precision guess work putting the slide back on the frame. The recoil spring and guide rod on my PM9 is pretty temperamental at times.

[CJB]

we sold a few back when and they never worked, none, nadda..:7:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQep2T5dRHgCCD9jBSHw1e8iHCFGcUd0 LyTVjfqqRWJTX4cSLAj

Yah me too, dozens of them. The AMT ones were a little better, the Irwindale Arms were terrible. AMT was never "great" but they lost it totally after they reorganized as IA. Sad. Remember that all stainless 10/22 clone they did? A bit before their time on that one. The .22mag pistol was VERY finicky about ammo, and the ports being ABSOLUTELY clean.

[BBSky]

I vote for 3 dot sights and, I hope I never need it, a lifetime warranty.

The Kimber Solo- nope not for me, I don't like a flippy type safety on a carry gun. I could live with a grip safety but that would be hard to do in a small gun.
Besides I bought TWO CM9's for not a lot more than a local dealer wanted for ONE Solo:cool: Did look nice, but I didn't even ask to handle it.

[Jball1125]

I agree on the hand size adjustment. I feel that the trigger its too close to the palm of my hand.

[O'Dell]

It may be sacrilege on this forum, but I'd like to see a Kahr the size of my PM9 with a light, short SA trigger and a manual safety. Before you suggest it, I don't care for Kimbers.

[JFootin]

It may be sacrilege on this forum, but I'd like to see a Kahr the size of my PM9 with a light, short SA trigger and a manual safety. Before you suggest it, I don't care for Kimbers.

Except for the size, it sounds like you are talking about the Para Ordinance LDA guns. One of the best competitive shooters uses one with a super trigger job and about 1.5 lb release to trounce the competition.

[O'Dell]

Except for the size, it sounds like you are talking about the Para Ordinance LDA guns. One of the best competitive shooters uses one with a super trigger job and about 1.5 lb release to trounce the competition.

I've never had a Para, so I'm not personally familiar with the LDA trigger. I did have a SIG P220 with a DAK trigger, but didn't like it, so I sold the gun. Anyway, size is important which is why I got the PM9 and LCP in the first place.

[jocko]

trust me the Para lda triggers are totally awesome..

[JFootin]

The LDA is a strange piece. The hammer is just kind of there for show. It is striker fired. The trigger is about 5.5 lb, but a trigger job can put that wherever you want it to be. (You don't have to worry about light strikes on the primer because the trigger just releases the striker.) The travel is short, so you would still need to use the thumb safety.

But what is the point? It is still a single action gun (with no second strike capability, ala Taurus.) So, why not just stick with the single action, get a trigger job on it, and forget about it?

But can the LDA be an even better trigger than the single action, with a little work?

[balok1701]

It's not that I want Kahr to copy the rest of the market. It's that I love what Kahr is doing now, and would also like to add a larger capacity model with the exact same controls and operation for consistency. I think having all of my guns operate the same way is safer in an emergency. No fumbling with levers missing or in different places on different gun designs.

[balok1701]

Another two guns I would like to see Kahr build would be a cw380 and a cm380.

[Foggy]

Kahrs are awesome guns. They fill a niche in the market quite nicely. My hats are off to them for that. I dearly love my K9. With that said I only lust for one small design change. I think the only plastic that should come near a gun is a credit card. So where is the aluminum frame model? Come on, with today's technology, I know they could do this ...

[O'Dell]

It's not that I want Kahr to copy the rest of the market. It's that I love what Kahr is doing now, and would also like to add a larger capacity model with the exact same controls and operation for consistency. I think having all of my guns operate the same way is safer in an emergency. No fumbling with levers missing or in different places on different gun designs.

You know, I've heard that opinion expressed a lot and for a long time. I now have 13 pistols in my active collection and they include S&W's with and w/o safeties, SIG's with and w/o, Kahrs, HK's, Springfields with and w/o, an STI and a Ruger. The other night I heard a noise in my house - it woke me up, so it could have been real or a dream. I grabbed the HK 40 that I keep outside the safe and the first thing I remember was looking across that green dot on the front night sight down the hall from my bedroom. I had swiped off the safety w/o even thinking about it, and that is odd because I have only shot that gun once. I think basically the same thing would have happened with any other of my pistols, with or w/o safeties.

[ripley16]

Kahrs are awesome guns. They fill a niche in the market quite nicely. My hats are off to them for that. I dearly love my K9. With that said I only lust for one small design change. I think the only plastic that should come near a gun is a credit card. So where is the aluminum frame model? Come on, with today's technology, I know they could do this ...

What would be the gain, what difference would there be in performnce between a polymer frame Kahr and a alloy frame Kahr? Both offer lower weight versus steel frame, but other than screw on grip panels, I can't think of a major advantage to be gained by the use of a alloy frame. What am I missing?

[JFootin]

IMHO, the ability to add Bawanna Super Thin wood grip panels (http://www.wix.com/bawanna45/bawannas-grip-emporium#%21portraits/photostackergallery0=2) to my Kahr would be FANTASTIC! Also, the alloy would not flex and deform like polymer, which causes mis-feeds, mags not dropping free, and stuff. It would add a little to the weight, softening recoil, and it would improve the balance of the gun.

[Bawanna]

Thats a good thought jfootin, thanks for thinking it.

Nice wood on any gun is a plus in my book. Not sure it's worth a material change to make it happen with the MK's and K's out there but a plus.