P380 success!

[BuckeyeBlast]

You guys might remember my thread "At my whit's end with my P380" (I had premature slide lockback repeatedly, and POI way off of POA) http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6494
or when I continued getting angry and tried to go higher up at Kahr http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6617
and ended up finally getting someone to listen after I contacted the BBB http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6908
and finally got the Kahr into service http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7221

Well, SUCCESS! I got it back the other week, and finally got it out to the range. They ended up replacing the entire gun, leaving me under the impression that the frame was out of spec somewhere. This could explain both the accuracy issue and the lockback issue I would imagine. Prepped, lubed, and cycled the slide a few hundred times before getting to the range today.

100 WWB: 0 failures of any kind
appx 25 American Eagle: 0 failures of any kind
appx 35 PPI hollow points: 0 failures of any kind
4 Gold Dots: 0 failures of any kind :w00t:

I cleaned out all my .380 ammo today except for 7 rounds of carry ammo, no failures whatsoever. None. :cheer2:

I'll be removing my complaint w/ the BBB and offering my personal thanks to Doug at Kahr. :yo:

Now, my new P380 is a new model, with the 2 screw right sideplate. My old one was a single screw. Old serial number was RA8896, new serial number RC3XXX.

Oh, and the accuracy? Right behind the front sight. :D

[Cokeman]

Hell yeah!

Mine worked great today too.

[BuckeyeBlast]

It was a good feeling, the kind of feeling you should always get after purchasing a quality firearm. I hope the newer model P380s are all exerting this kind of performance!

[avid]

Buckeye,

Thanks for your post. I am planning on purchasing a p380 and hope to get a good one the first try. The serial number sequences you cited will undoubtedly help. The two screw side plate should also be a useful clue. I have looked at a lot of p380 photos and can't see the screws. You wouldn't have a photo that shows their location would you. Thanks!

[BuckeyeBlast]

Bump this thread tonight and I'll get a pic for you. :)

[Bill K]

This is great to read! Good for you! Continued good shooting with your P380.

Your P380 would make a great BUG when carrying something bigger and not a bad primary when you can't or choose not to carry something with more snot.

[jocko]

You guys might remember my thread "At my whit's end with my P380" (I had premature slide lockback repeatedly, and POI way off of POA) http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6494
or when I continued getting angry and tried to go higher up at Kahr http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6617
and ended up finally getting someone to listen after I contacted the BBB http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=6908
and finally got the Kahr into service http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7221

Well, SUCCESS! I got it back the other week, and finally got it out to the range. They ended up replacing the entire gun, leaving me under the impression that the frame was out of spec somewhere. This could explain both the accuracy issue and the lockback issue I would imagine. Prepped, lubed, and cycled the slide a few hundred times before getting to the range today.

100 WWB: 0 failures of any kind
appx 25 American Eagle: 0 failures of any kind
appx 35 PPI hollow points: 0 failures of any kind
4 Gold Dots: 0 failures of any kind :w00t:

I cleaned out all my .380 ammo today except for 7 rounds of carry ammo, no failures whatsoever. None. :cheer2:

I'll be removing my complaint w/ the BBB and offering my personal thanks to Doug at Kahr. :yo:

Now, my new P380 is a new model, with the 2 screw right sideplate. My old one was a single screw. Old serial number was RA8896, new serial number RC3XXX.

Oh, and the accuracy? Right behind the front sight. :D

the serial # tell me there are over 24,000 out there already. Ur not gonna find any one screw P380 NEW inany dealer show cases, that change was made well over 1year ago tothe two screw thing, nothing internal that I know of, although I have been told that the newer models now have alittle stouter recoil spring and I think that was done to get better return to battery I was told the inner spring was the change and not the outter..Mine is one of the first 125 made and once back to kahr for a issue has since been a great gun.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Buckeye,

Thanks for your post. I am planning on purchasing a p380 and hope to get a good one the first try. The serial number sequences you cited will undoubtedly help. The two screw side plate should also be a useful clue. I have looked at a lot of p380 photos and can't see the screws. You wouldn't have a photo that shows their location would you. Thanks!

As requested.

[avid]

Buckeye thanks so much. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[jocko]

Buckeye thanks so much. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

this forum is full of great picture takers...:cheer2:

[AustinTX]

I sure hope I'm posting something like Buckeye's success story before too long. My P380 is now on its fourth vacation to Kahr in a little more than two months.

I really loved my P380 from about round 150 to round 275, but then an ever-growing series of problems began. Each time it comes home from Kahr it shows the same problems as before -- and then displays a novel issue in short order. Kahr replaced the frame on the third trip back (changing the serial number from RB32xx to RC29xx), but several problems persist.

I really want a P380 I can love and trust. Properly functioning, it's easily the best .380 pocket pistol design on the market, in my opinion. I've put 400+ rounds through two other P380s with no issues at all, so I know that at least some of them work well. That "properly functioning" status has proven to be very elusive for my P380 so far, though, even after more than 1,000 rounds and three prior vacations to MA. :(

Even though it would entail further break-in expense, I'm hoping that Kahr will agree to replace my gun with a completely new one. Nothing they've done so far has come close to making it reliable.

[HadEmAll]

I sure hope I'm posting something like Buckeye's success story before too long. My P380 is now on its fourth vacation to Kahr in a little more than two months.

I really loved my P380 from about round 150 to round 275, but then an ever-growing series of problems began. Each time it comes home from Kahr it shows the same problems as before -- and then displays a novel issue in short order. Kahr replaced the frame on the third trip back (changing the serial number from RB32xx to RC29xx), but several problems persist.

I really want a P380 I can love and trust. Properly functioning, it's easily the best .380 pocket pistol design on the market, in my opinion. I've put 400+ rounds through two other P380s with no issues at all, so I know that at least some of them work well. That "properly functioning" status has proven to be very elusive for my P380 so far, though, even after more than 1,000 rounds and three prior vacations to MA. :(

Even though it would entail further break-in expense, I'm hoping that Kahr will agree to replace my gun with a completely new one. Nothing they've done so far has come close to making it reliable.

Good luck with that. The only thing that's kept me from sending mine back for a 3rd time is that I'm not sure I can talk nice to anybody at Kahr any more about the P380. I'm waiting until I cool down a little more. I realize talking smack to the guy on the phone is going to accomplishing nothing, though talking nice hasn't either.

Meanwhile, my LCP is doing the bulk of my .380 pocket carry work. The P380 currrently is a pretty and expensive little experiment in progress.

[jocko]

I sure hope I'm posting something like Buckeye's success story before too long. My P380 is now on its fourth vacation to Kahr in a little more than two months.

I really loved my P380 from about round 150 to round 275, but then an ever-growing series of problems began. Each time it comes home from Kahr it shows the same problems as before -- and then displays a novel issue in short order. Kahr replaced the frame on the third trip back (changing the serial number from RB32xx to RC29xx), but several problems persist.

I really want a P380 I can love and trust. Properly functioning, it's easily the best .380 pocket pistol design on the market, in my opinion. I've put 400+ rounds through two other P380s with no issues at all, so I know that at least some of them work well. That "properly functioning" status has proven to be very elusive for my P380 so far, though, even after more than 1,000 rounds and three prior vacations to MA. :(

Even though it would entail further break-in expense, I'm hoping that Kahr will agree to replace my gun with a completely new one. Nothing they've done so far has come close to making it reliable.

IMO u have went over board to get your P380 right. The Ruger lcp is a great running little 380, buy it and move on, peddle the kahr. I love kahrs, I think they make the best 9,m and 40and 45, but they don't make the best 380. It should not be a crap shoot but it is. I had a little piddly survey done here about a month or so ago and I think only about 50 replied (I think) but over 50% had to send their 380 Kahrs back. Now I know some could be shooter error to but again I don't know that for sure, the fact is that 50% had to go back to kahr to get right. I will give any good gun that I like one trip back to the maker to get right and then after than I have no alegiance to it. I have a P380 that had to go back and it is running great. I have a lcp that had to go back and it has been great since. If I had to trust one of the two, I would pick my lcp. I carry neither though as my PM9 can do it all and it is reliable. I know some here will think, damn jocko, this is a kahr forum, and it sure is, but there are just to many OTHER good guns out there to get frustrated over one bad gun. I will ask this though, if u peddle it, be up front to the buyer, or dealer or send it back to kahr and let them fix it and whenu get it back then peddle it before shooting it and u should have a clear conscince.

We all want these small ass guns,,, and the makers are there to please us, but we have read in damn near every forum of damn near every maker when they come out with these small ass 380's of issue after issue. It's otjust kahrs. Kahr has over 30K of the 380's out there which is a hell of alot of gun and we only hear of the ones giving issues, so lets hope the rest are alldoing as they are designed. We gun owners can only go with the reports we read and our own personalexperiences with that particular gun. I can only base my comments on what I read on this forum and other. Lets face it the new cm9 that has come out is damn near flawless out of the box and what little piddle issues has popped up was soveable on this forum, so can we assumne that when you maybe get TO SMALL that issues are gonna happen????

I have toget off the band wagon, the local farmer needs it back tostack hay on, sorry for the rant.

[AustinTX]

I might be coming around to your point of view pretty soon, Jocko, but I'm still holding out a little hope. I'll give up the remaining hope if Kahr doesn't replace the gun, though, because I don't think I can ever trust this particular P380 enough again.

The Director of CS is supposed to call me to discuss the issues this time, so we'll see what he is willing to do to make this situation right. (Does anyone know who that might be and whether or not I should expect to receive a sympathetic hearing?) Given that between the original purchase price, ammo, range fees, gasoline, and FFL fees (new serial number after third trip), I've foolishly put more than $1,000 into this $525 pistol to still only have a totally unreliable piece of junk, I feel replacing it with a new gun is the very least that they could do that I would consider acceptable at this point. Really good customer service (S&W-style) would be to throw in night sights, the black finish, a couple of extra magazines, and break-in ammo as compensation for and acknowledgment of the unacceptable experience I've had so far. But I know I'm dreaming...

I've always believed that the Ruger LCP is the least problematic of all the pocket .380 pistols, but that gun and my large hands and long fingers are never going to be friends. We'll see. At some point, I may find that it's my only choice.

[jocko]

cost of doing business with the ammo, gas range fees etc. That is part of owning a gun. so forget kahr or anyone makng u well in that point. Being they already replaced one entire gun, I am at a loss as to what CS will do for you. If the gun is indeed defective and they cannot fix it, they will replace it and u will have to go through a FFL fee again, no doubt in my mind on that. In ur case sh-t happens and I can understand your grief. I really can't see Smith and Wesson throwing in nights sights, black finish a couple extra magazines and breakin ammo for compensation. I don't see that happening. I see a good company doing no more than they are obligated to do, fix the productd that is bad,be it a tv, refrig, car, gun etc and that is it. I am sure u will keep us posted and the only thing I can say is be very nice, re explain all that they have done etc and the amount of cost and time u are out and yet still no dependable gun. U might just hit the right CW person at the right time of day that he will be happy to take care of u. Who knows he just might have gotten alittle that morning before he went to work and is as happy as a lark. a pre-nooner is like a McDonalds HAPPY meal.

[DKD]

AUSTINTX,

All is still not hopeless if you are still focused on a .380 pistol. From my own personal experience first hand as well as what I had read the little Sig 238 could be a good fit for your needs. I realize it is a single action colt like pistol but with the typical cocked & locked positive safety I have no issues with it at all. Mine shoots great and has excelent sites. Even the old Colt 'Pony" magazines work with it as well.
Well it is an option anyway for a 380 acp and of comprable size. I have been known to carry mine as a backup to my PM9 or Kimber Pro Raptor 45 acp. Mine has been 100% since the day I bought it and is very accurate for a pistol with a 2.5" barrel.

[AustinTX]

cost of doing business with the ammo, gas range fees etc. That is part of owning a gun. so forget kahr or anyone makng u well in that point.

Oh, believe me, I know I was engaging in pure fantasy. A new gun would be all I would expect, but also all the minimum I would consider acceptable after four returns to Kahr.


Being they already replaced one entire gun, I am at a loss as to what CS will do for you.

They only replaced the gun in the legal sense (in that the frame is the gun), but the barrel and slide are both original. Two of the three major components of the gun have not been replaced.


I really can't see Smith and Wesson throwing in nights sights, black finish a couple extra magazines and breakin ammo for compensation. I don't see that happening.

Not to get off topic, but I've personally seen S&W do far more than what was required of them in two different cases. One person I know had problems with a used Walther PPS. Despite the fact that the gun was out of warranty and used, S&W paid shipping both ways twice, and when they could not remedy the issues, they sent him an entirely new PPS and threw in two extra mags ($114 retail). I know another fellow who had issues with an M&P that he bought new. After a couple of return trips (fully covered by S&W, of course), S&W declared the gun defective and sent him a new one with two extra magazines and night sights. I've read several other similar accounts about S&W service.

That is not the norm for CS in the gun industry, of course, and I'm certainly not expecting this from Kahr.


I am sure u will keep us posted and the only thing I can say is be very nice, re explain all that they have done etc and the amount of cost and time u are out and yet still no dependable gun. U might just hit the right CW person at the right time of day that he will be happy to take care of u. Who knows he just might have gotten alittle that morning before he went to work and is as happy as a lark. a pre-nooner is like a McDonalds HAPPY meal

Haha, that's my plan. I'm really steamed inside about this experience, but I know that nothing good ever comes from taking it out on the fellow at the other end of the phone who had nothing to do with the issues in the first place.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[AustinTX]

AUSTINTX,

All is still not hopeless if you are still focused on a .380 pistol. From my own personal experience first hand as well as what I had read the little Sig 238 could be a good fit for your needs. I realize it is a single action colt like pistol but with the typical cocked & locked positive safety I have no issues with it at all. Mine shoots great and has excelent sites. Even the old Colt 'Pony" magazines work with it as well.
Well it is an option anyway for a 380 acp and of comprable size. I have been known to carry mine as a backup to my PM9 or Kimber Pro Raptor 45 acp. Mine has been 100% since the day I bought it and is very accurate for a pistol with a 2.5" barrel

I appreciate the suggestion, and I'm glad that yours runs without issue, but I know more than one person who has had loads of trouble with their P238, so I'm a little wary of making that move. They are nice shooters, though. However, I personally find them a little large and heavy for what they are.

[TominCA]

The P380's can be a real pain. I think the tolerances are too tight and I suspect that there is a batch of slides / barrels that are marginally out of spec, making the break in overly long (mine took about 500 rounds and one trip back)

Add to that the fact that you can limp wrist them without thinking and they start getting too dirty at about 50 rounds, and you better keep the mil-tech on all surfaces and the oil fresh especially on the barrel where it contacts the frame and at the slide stop pin / lug area, plus your bullets better be in the mag just right or they will pop the slide stop and give you a premature lock back, and you have a lot of challenges. But it is still a neat little gun!

When I was having problems with mine I often thought that it is really too much cartridge for too little gun and the package would probably work a lot better in 32 ACP rather than 380. On the plus side the metallurgy is much better than just about anything else you can buy and they are beautifully made and designed. It was the materials and craftsmanship that kept me going when I was having trouble.

Having said all that, if you depend upon the gun for protection the PM9 is an absolutely flawless piece of work and has none of the p380 problems. It's a few ounces more, easier to shoot with more power and a better bullet selection and only .9 inches thick.

[avid]

Went to my local Kahr dealer and looked at the P380 they have in stock. It has the two screw side plate and the serial number is RC05xx. That sounds like a low number in the second run. The gun's action is very tight in my estimation.

The other option I have for purchasing a P380, it involves more work, is having one shipped to an FFL around 60 miles from me. If I was going to go this route which online authorized dealer would have the most recent stock? In other word, who is Kahr's biggest online reseller? Thanks!

[JFootin]

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