How many rounds?

[Dietrich]

At what point do you deem a handgun reliable enough for carry purposes?Most of us choose some form of hollow point ammunition for self defense purposes so how many rounds of it do you put through the gun to make sure it feeds properly?I usually fire around 300 rounds of FMJ target ammo and then at least 100 rounds of JHP self defense ammo.If the gun functions perfectly firing those rounds,I feel that it`s good to go.I would like to know what the rest of you do to put a new gun through its` paces.Thanks,D.

[melissa5]

The Gen 3 Glocks are pretty much ready to go out of the box, but I still run 50 - 100 FMJs and 25 Gold Dots through them just in case.

Everything else, I double those numbers and then see how I feel about the gun.

[ripley16]

No set number for me. I've only carried a couple guns in the 36 years I've done so. I usually shoot several hundred just getting familiar the gun and shoot several boxes of whatever carry round I end up using, after testing several brands to find said round.

The only gun I started using after only one range trip was my HK P2000sk, but at that point I was already a HK fan and very confident in the quality of the brand.

When looking at the Kahr P45 as a potential CCW I shot over 800 rounds before dropping it from consideration.

When looking at the Kahr P9 as a potential replacement for the HK, I fired over 500 rounds before feeling warm and cozy with it's reliability. Based on prior bad experiences with the P45 and a CW9, I needed convincing.

The gun I shot the least was my old and trusty Seecamp. I can't recall how many rounds I put through it before it went in my pocket, but based on it's reputation and the actual results I produced, (no failures), it was, as I recall, only two or three mags worth, maybe as much as a full box of 50, but not more.

[jocko]

One can shoot these glocks, kahrs, smiths, HK for 500 rounds and never a glitch and then when u need it, it might go south. We can't predict what that next trigger pull will produce. If 50 rounds makes you feel good about your gun, then 50 rounds it is. 500 for some make sum feel good, so 500 it is.

all we can do is keep it clean, lubed and properly serviced and thenh shoot it like u stole it. sometimes I also think we blame the gun for a one or two time glitch that maybe is our fault to. Guns can't talk back, so for most it is always the guns fault. If my gun goes bang every time I can forgive it ,,, if it fails to lock open once or twice..

some buy a gun shoot it a 100 or so rounds kand load it up with defense stuff and then it sits and is hardly shot. I guess I take the other route, I feel my 3 kahrs are built like a brick sh-t house, so I shoot my defense gun 24/7. It is my defense gun and I want to know it as well as I do my wife, etc. U ain't gonna wear out a good gun, actually muy PM9 is so so so smooth today that it is not the same gun as 1000 of its first rounds, and I swear u can look at my PM9 today and it looks new, with virtually not a sign of wear anywhere. almost like the slide is riding on air. Maybe I just got a good one, but I think not. Would you trust your kahr less at 32,000 rounds like mine has thanone with a 1000 rounds???

[TheTman]

I like to put together 200 trouble free rounds at least. 1 FTF, FTE, or stovepipe, and the count starts over. I have one pistol, a Star Model 30 in 9mm, that has never passed the test. Mostly it stovepipes. So that one is put away and only comes out for target practice once in awhile.
One SD ammo, I can't afford a whole lot, so if can get 50 troublefree rounds after the initial 200 with FMJ, then I call it good to go.

[Bawanna]

I like to put together 200 trouble free rounds at least. 1 FTF, FTE, or stovepipe, and the count starts over. I have one pistol, a Star Model 30 in 9mm, that has never passed the test. Mostly it stovepipes. So that one is put away and only comes out for target practice once in awhile.
One SD ammo, I can't afford a whole lot, so if can get 50 troublefree rounds after the initial 200 with FMJ, then I call it good to go.

That's pretty much what I do. I really like to get at least 500 practice and 300 or so carry type ammo with zero glitches. At the cost of ammo thats hard to do for me anymore. I've pretty much got my carry wardrobe done now also so I seldom have to do that anymore either.
It's all about confidence as always, if you feel good with it and have faith in it, your there.

[knkali]

for me its 50 rnd trouble free. My gun is broke in and this weekend its to the range. I will put 50 through it. If it doesnt hiccup then I am good to go. I also include shooter error too. If the gun is really sensitive to my input as to causing the hiccup then it isnt good for me to carry either.

[JimBianchi]

Since I've had a few guns fail me over the years, my testing procedure has evolved to a much more strict standard for carry weapons. All my SD guns now go though a rigorous test before I bet my life on them. (I've been carrying, were legal, since 1988)

Generally, a 1000rds of mixed ball and JHP ammo, all mags, all holsters. Practice shooting on the move, range time and from the holster.

I can do it over a week, two at the most.

During all this I will also shoot a minimum of 150rds of my carry ammo. In the rare case I run out of carry ammo (127+p+ became scare recently) I will start over with my new choice.

Currently all my 9mm's are using HST 147. I have enough on hand to remain proficient for several years, and I could even break in a new 9 if I needed to.

When I was carrying only my G30 6 years ago, Double Tap 230grn +p was my SD ammo. They raised the price so high that it became cost effective to switch to a more mainstream manufacture, Win Ranger T 230grn.

Just as important as gun reliability, are failure drills, drop drills and movement and cover drills. You should be as reliable as your gun.

While I am proficient with all my guns, I generally only carry a GLOCK (90%) or Kahr (10%). Both have similar triggers and I find I shoot them the same and can switch between them without any hiccups.

Practice makes permanent.

[knkali]

Since I've had a few guns fail me over the years, my testing procedure has evolved to a much more strict standard for carry weapons. All my SD guns now go though a rigorous test before I bet my life on them. (I've been carrying, were legal, since 1988)

Generally, a 1000rds of mixed ball and JHP ammo, all mags, all holsters. Practice shooting on the move, range time and from the holster.

I can do it over a week, two at the most.

During all this I will also shoot a minimum of 150rds of my carry ammo. In the rare case I run out of carry ammo (127+p+ became scare recently) I will start over with my new choice.

Currently all my 9mm's are using HST 147. I have enough on hand to remain proficient for several years, and I could even break in a new 9 if I needed to.

When I was carrying only my G30 6 years ago, Double Tap 230grn +p was my SD ammo. They raised the price so high that it became cost effective to switch to a more mainstream manufacture, Win Ranger T 230grn.

Just as important as gun reliability, are failure drills, drop drills and movement and cover drills. You should be as reliable as your gun.

While I am proficient with all my guns, I generally only carry a GLOCK (90%) or Kahr (10%). Both have similar triggers and I find I shoot them the same and can switch between them without any hiccups.

Practice makes permanent.

"Just as important as gun reliability, are failure drills, drop drills and movement and cover drills. You should be as reliable as your gun."

Great point!

[jocko]

"Just as important as gun reliability, are failure drills, drop drills and movement and cover drills. You should be as reliable as your gun."

not sure how old your are either but when u get my age some of those drills are just not something I practice or intend to practice. My gun is probably more reliable than I am, but it also doesn' have the miles on it that I have.

[O'Dell]

If the pistol doesn't exhibit any problems early on which is usually the case, about 250 to 300 with half being carry rounds does it for me.

Jocko, you seem pretty reliable to me, but then there's that PM9 of yours .........

[jocko]

so true, maybe more durable than reliable but if I like you, I will be there for u, but if I don't, well there's that damn PM9 of mine.!!!

[Bawanna]

so true, maybe more durable than reliable but if I like you, I will be there for u, but if I don't, well there's that damn PM9 of mine.!!!

Or the fish heads, don't forget the fish heads. And if they are really on the ca ca list horse heads rule the day. I feel qualified to talk, I have 3 under the bed so as not to scare the missus but they are getting a bit ripe.
Trying to be kind so I can move back to the fish head level, easier to dispose of.

[jocko]

but it took 3 horseheads for u to getthe point. I knew u were a slow learner. An with theeconomyt like it is, I have went to fish heads, the symbol is basically the same to those who receive one and it is better over all for the horse industry to. I use alot of carp for around here they are plentiful and we use um for fertilizer..

I have to make my yearly mecca to Italy to requalify to be able to send horse heads . U see the Italians eat the damn horses, so heads are everywhere. thats really the true story of how horseheads started to appear. The Italians just wanted to clean up their back yards alittle. Damn truth, so help me jocko

[melissa5]

Italy???? OMG, he's in the mafia! Is Jocko short for Giacomo?

[jocko]

ur very close Melissa. very close. They have alot of arch small birdges names after my family over there around LaCanavese, Italy.

[Bawanna]

Italy???? OMG, he's in the mafia! Is Jocko short for Giacomo?

You didn't know that? I thought everyone knew that.

I speak the truth. The FBI most wanted dude they caught the other day? Nickel and Dime compared to this family.

[jocko]

bawanna, u can be my mea figlio any day, Ur alright.

[JimBianchi]

"Just as important as gun reliability, are failure drills, drop drills and movement and cover drills. You should be as reliable as your gun."

not sure how old your are either but when u get my age some of those drills are just not something I practice or intend to practice. My gun is probably more reliable than I am, but it also doesn' have the miles on it that I have.

I am 48y old underemployed photographer, 22y retired USAF (retired in 2002), mostly Security Police, currently waiting on a new hip, UPS and the VA are due to drop it in Aug 29. Between that and the 5 blown disks in my back, those drills have to end on the ground, because getting up ain't fast or pretty...

I did just break in my K9 (bought used and abused, the factory fixed me it up) a few weeks ago, it went pretty well, I was moving slow the next day though. Thank God for Pharmaceuticals!

[O'Dell]

so true, maybe more durable than reliable but if I like you, I will be there for u, but if I don't, well there's that damn PM9 of mine.!!!

I noticed that you didn't say you liked me but 'if'. Should I be worried? :confused:

[rwblue01]

There are the tests of the:
1. Gun
2. Mags. all non-range-only mags get run twice.
3. Holster
4. Me shooting said gun.

Different makers = different results.

Kahr says don't complain until after 200 rounds. So there is a minimal limit.

All the Kahr mags don't run right off the bat, so.....

Gun is going back to Kahr so an issue.

Finding the right holster is an issue, so....

Me shooting the Kahr is not good either (I assume this can be overcome, but ....)

The flip side:
Glocks have run right out of the box.
All glock new mags run right out of the box.
Holster was an issue.
I shoot it like they were made for me.

[mr surveyor]

I look at firearm reliability a bit differently than just number of rounds. No matter if it's a revolver, semi auto pistol, rifle or shotgun...new or used.. I have a standard procedure to follow.

1. Read the manual (download one from the web if necessary) and study the field strip and detail strip instructions.
2. Check to make sure the barrel is clear and the action appears to function properly, then fire one full load/magazine before doing anything else.
3. Detail strip (as far as I am capable) and inspect every part closely, looking for anything that may be an imperfection or just poor machining, and give it a proper lubing. Keep notes, and/or take pictures.
4. Run 50 rounds (pistol, revolver, shotgun get 50 - rifle 10-20) through then detail strip again and examine all the parts, mating surfaces, springs, etc., again. Particularly on semi-autos I look for signs of peening of the barrel hood corners and breach face, as well as for wear marks on the barrel and guide rod ports in the slide, and examine the guide rod for gouges. Also pay close attention to the extractor and ejector. Compare notes with step 3.
5. Repeat step 4 and look for any changes.

If everything passes the above after a couple hundred rounds it should be good to go. I never considered it necessary to run several boxes of "carry ammo" through any firearm to prove reliability. If the gun passes my normal "break in test" with range ammo, I then find a particular SD load that cycles a couple of magazines without problems, I'm good to go.

Following the above routine, if there is a malfunction along the way, at least I have some idea as to the cause.

redneck science


surv

[ltxi]

Ten rounds, 12 for a K-Frame. :)

[TucsonMTB]

I look at firearm reliability a bit differently than just number of rounds . . . redneck science

surv
+1 I'm probably not quite as scientific about as Mr. Surveyor, but after going through more than a dozen different semi-autos of varying quality from Kel-Tec, Ruger, Kimber, Dan Wesson, and finally Kahr, I know when a pistol has smoothed out enough to be reliable. Some crossed that line after lots of attention. Others were "OK" right out of the box but still needed to become smooth enough in operation to inspire confidence. Only one ever frustrated me to the point that it got sold off, with full disclosure, cheaply.

It's kind of like Kenny Rogers' The Gambler song, "You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run."

Experience counts. There is no formula for me. :D

[ltxi]

+1 I'm probably not quite as scientific about as Mr. Surveyor, but after going through more than a dozen different semi-autos of varying quality from Kel-Tec, Ruger, Kimber, Dan Wesson, and finally Kahr, I know when a pistol has smoothed out enough to be reliable. Some crossed that line after lots of attention. Others were "OK" right out of the box but still needed to become smooth enough in operation to inspire confidence. Only one ever frustrated me to the point that it got sold off, with full disclosure, cheaply.

It's kind of like Kenny Rogers' The Gambler song, "You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run."

Experience counts. There is no formula for me. :D

Yeah, I agree. For an experienced shooter there's much wisdom in that approach.

[yqtszhj]

I like to put together 200 trouble free rounds at least. 1 FTF, FTE, or stovepipe, and the count starts over. I have one pistol, a Star Model 30 in 9mm, that has never passed the test. Mostly it stovepipes. So that one is put away and only comes out for target practice once in awhile.
One SD ammo, I can't afford a whole lot, so if can get 50 troublefree rounds after the initial 200 with FMJ, then I call it good to go.

What manski said is what I do too before carry, 2 hundred trouble free then 50 SD trouble free.

Then as Jocko says I shoot it like I stole it.

[Too Tall Todd]

When I received my Kahr p9 I of course stripped, cleaned and lubed it then I manually cycled it 400+ times then fired it 500 times + 1 box of critical defense ammo and since it was flawless I called it good to go. I am about 2500 rounds without a problem. I literally trust "the reverend" with my life. I was seriously surprised however when my 23 yo daughter experienced two stovepipes within 50 rounds. I suspect that she was limp wristing it. I still trust the rev in my hands but not in my daughters anymore.

[jocko]

no doubt ur daughter limped the gun. In timne shewould have adjusted to the gun. Most women are not gun savvy and have no clue as to how a semi HAS TO WORK..