Older VB PM9-Recoil Assembly

[Jitterbug]

Hi Guys

I have an older VB serial # 2004 PM9.

I just received a new recoil assembly from Kahr. I ordered the "old style" the invoice says "old style"

This new assembly has a much larger flange, just under 1/2" in diameter, the new 13 coil recoil spring is a bit "thicker" and stouter then my old 13 coil spring, it takes a bit of "work" to get it into the guidehole in the frame, but it does go.

It goes together well enough, but I can't lock the slide back, I'm about 1/8" short of the slide lock cut, nor can I get the slide to lock back on an empty mag by hand.

If I put the old spring on the new large flange assembly it works fine, if I put the new spring on the old flange assembly I can't lock the slide.

So it would seem the issue is the spring itself.

And yes I do have it assembled correctly.

I haven't fire it yet.

I searched the best I could on this site as well as the old Glock site for a solution....

One solution was to run a hundred rounds through it which eventually causes the spring to "settle in" resulting in the ability to lock the slide.

Anyone else have to deal with this?

Any suggestions?

Also, am I going to break anything running this "large flange" assembly in my older VB serial # gun?

[crazymailman]

A very wise man named jocko should be along shortly to help. I have heard of the new style recoil guide rod, but don't have an answer as to if it will work properly.

[Jitterbug]

I've spent about 2+ hours Googling, from what I've gathered is that yes the new style 1/2" flange will work on the older style guns. And that's the old style, new style, if that makes sense.

Sense the very latest PM9's have a longer slide...and a correspondingly different spring/assembly

I now have the gun put back together with the "new 1/2" flange", BUT with the old outer recoil spring. It does in fact hand cycle and lock the slide back just fine, I don't feel anything hanging up, so I assume it would fire ok without damaging anything. But I hate to assume.

Last night I tried clipping a 1/2 a coil off the new spring, I did it twice, no dice it still doesn't work.

And it was a 13 coil spring to begin with, same as the one that's been on the gun for the past 6 years. Although the new 13 coil spring appears more robust.

So I measured the O.D., it's about 10 thousands larger.

I have a sneaking suspicion this might have something to do with something.

Crazy, I had emailed Kahr a few months back and told them specifically I had an VB serial # purchased in 2004, and they specifically told me to order the "old" model assembly from their website.

I'd like to think the manufacture would know the correct assembly?

Who knows what they sent me...a bit frustrated at the moment, time to go chill.

[crazymailman]

Did you ever try the new outer spring on the old guide rod assy?

[jocko]

the bigger flange is now standard, u had the 3/8" flange originally and they made a change to the 1/2" flange about 4+ years ago. ur coil count for ur gun as it has the flat nose slide is 13 coils. That spring assembly should work.

Here is what I would do as I have the samne version PM9 (blunt nose) go to wolffrs gunspsirngs.com and order from them the 20.5# recoil spring fro the PM9. U can just buy the outter spring from them and being you now have the new assembly, just slip their spring on an test that out. That is all I ever use is there springs ad we older style owners can buy springs from wolffs where as the new style bevelded slide (longer) owners as of yet cannot. Kahrs uses the same exact recoil assembly for the PM40 and PM9 and factory poundage is 18#. Never made sense tome as the 40 cal is such a hand connon over the pm, but they are the same. Why do I use the 20.5# spring ovber the factory 18# spring????It last longer for sure, helps a tad with felt recoil.

Their service is faST. u can orde ron line and you willhave them in about 5 days, here is what I wold do.

Order a 3 pak of 18 or 20.5# what ever floats ur boat.
Order a 3 pak of 5% more strength magazine springs for ur 6 round magazine, these really help on the last round to engage the slide stop lever faster,m which is when the spring is at its most relasted stage. MJakes loading no harder either...
Order 1 of their 5# striker springs, It just drop right in and it is not a hairy trigger and the trigger ;pull length still stays at 3/8" but poundage reduced to 5+. No light strikes either.

Wolffs makes all of kahrs springs. I am at a loss to tell you what is the matter with your set up now. It should work. they are buggers to install when new that is for sure, but AFTER A 100 OR LESS ROUNDS THE SPRING WILL TAKE A PRE-DESIGNED SET AND WILL BE ok.
I hate to tell a person to shorten a spring tht should fit right from the factory, but I know if you call kahr they will tell you to do exactly what ur doing , clip a 1/4 coil at a time and retest. To me that is not the right thing to say.

so BUY WOLFFS STUFF AND SCREW KAHR

wolff's gunsprings.com

[Jitterbug]

Thanks Jocko, I need to place an order with Wolff's for some 1911 springs anyway, so I'll give your advice a try.

I did call Kahr this morning, they confirmed the 1/2" flange will work fine, as far as the spring, I told them I had clipped a coil or so off, he said no big deal, to go out and shoot the gun and THEN I should be able to lock the slide by hand. I asked if they used Wolff springs and he didn't have an answer for that other then that the Wolff outer spring would work.

I did cycle some factory FMJ through the gun with the new assembly and the new cut spring, the rounds cycle fine and of course I have to do it by sling shotting, I don't know if it's my imagination or what, but I could swear it cycles much smoother then with the old recoil assembly?

I could and did slingshot previously with the old recoil assembly/spring, however it would sometimes stutter a bit and wasn't what I'd call smooth.

Until I get a chance to go out and shoot it, it works fine with the new assembly and old outer recoil spring.

Crazy: Yes I did try that combo, it would not lock back the slide with that combo.

Man, I've been spending a lot of dough with Kahr recently, new 2nd PM9, Pierce mag extensions, recoil assembly, Mitch Rosen holster for CT, 2 Crimson Trace lasers, DeSantis Nemesis for the CT and this morning another 6 round magazine, not to mention a bunch of factory ammo.

The 2nd Laser and Nemesis is scheduled to be delivered today, once I get it setup I'll be playing hooky from work to get out and run some rounds through this new recoil assembly and zero at the same time, plus I want to check the magazine reliability with the Pierce extension.

I'll let you know if shooting it gets the new spring to work as it should, otherwise my old one should suffice until I receive the order from Wolff.

Thanks for all your help.

[Jitterbug]

The new, cut recoil spring, locked the slide back on the first magazine of WWB 115 FMJ, I proceeded to fire another 42 rounds of various target and premium ammo after which I field stripped the pistol and see nothing out of the ordinary.

I still can't lock the slide back by hand, however, it will, with some effort, now lock back with an empty magazine.

It was a quick session, I had some other shooting to do as well.

No jams, the laser was easy to zero and the Pierce extension grip is a nice addition.

[Jitterbug]

Update on the recoil springs.

Well, I just received the recoil springs from Wolff, stock number, 52820 and the 52818, 20.5 and 18.0 pounds respectively.

They both install and the gun operates as it it should, I can lock the slide back easily by hand with either.

I don't know what Kahr sent me, other then it's obviously the incorrect spring, I'm thinking something might have gotten mixed up in packaging.

I sent a copy of my invoice to Jay and asked him to look into it, I'd like to be able to get the correct recoil assembly from the manufacturer...especially since I paid for one.

Other then that I'm good to go with the Wolff springs, they include a striker spring and an inner recoil spring in the package, as usual with Wolff you get more then you expect and it's always the right ones, at least so far for me anyway.

[wyntrout]

I got the kit for my S&W 645 from them last year. I couldn't believe all of the danged springs!! And the slew of tiny ones. I think I changed the recoil spring and the magazine springs... got extras of the magazine springs and swapped those out, but those others will just be spare parts. I couldn't believe that there is that many springs in the pistol.

I also asked them about supporting the Kahr .45's and the P380, as well as metal base plates for the .45's, and though they thanked me for my interest, they haven't done anything in those directions.

Wynn:)

[Jitterbug]

Since I KNOW Wolff, has the correct springs now, I'm thinking I should get a lifetime supply from them NOW, just in case they discontinue this spring in favor of the new model spring.

[Jitterbug]

In sorting and storing springs in my gun cabinet last night I was thinking I need to establish a better spring maintanance routine for all my auto's, I was thinking I should have stuck to revolvers....I say that kiddingly.

Although, I have renewed my interest in the revolver, a S&W 442 and I'm currently shopping for a 629, which was severely set back by all the "gun money" spent on Kahr stuff the past few weeks, including a new one for her. All was well until that $13 magazine catch broke on mine.

I justified with the wife, by telling her the PM9's are the first priority since we carry those the most.

I've got a Birthday coming up in a couple of weeks and she knows how badly I want the 629, I have her pretty much convinced we need it for picking Huckleberry's and trout fishing in Grizzly country late this summer.

[Jitterbug]

Update from Jay at Kahr,

He informed me that the "old style" recoil assembly for my VB serial # PM9 was in fact the correct one

"That is the correct spring for your firearm. The rear of the spring is now made larger for both the old and new styles and should not cause any issue. The reason you are finding it difficult to lock the slide back manually is because you are fighting the tension of a brand new spring. This is normal and it will get easier over time. I hope this information helps."

Well, with all due respect, I'm going to disagree, I say this because the two outer recoil springs I received from Wolff both a 18 pound and 20.5 pound spring work as they should, right out of the bag.

I did "clip" a couple of coils off the spring Kahr sent me and fired about 60 rounds with it, which did enable the slide to lock back on an empty mag, but I still can't do it by hand.

I think the solution for owners of the older PM9 models is to purchase the outer springs from Wolff and you might want to do so before Wolff updates for the newer PM9 models.

[jocko]

stick with the wolffs springs and ur going to be OK.

[deadhead1971]

sounds like the longer new spring was sent in a bag labeled "old style." There is no other explanation.

[jocko]

if the coil count was the same as the original one, it shouldhave worked OK. I just don't think kahr has any springs around that are the same coil count but stronger due to coil diameter. being wolffs maikes kahrs recoil springs it is kinda of a mystery to me as to what is happaening.

[Jitterbug]

It was a 13 coil spring, like the old one, but it does have a larger overall outside diameter, which I think is the issue.

Don't know why they can't get it right, since Wolff does.

I have a similar issue with a Kimber Compact, Kimber swears their spring is the correct one, slide fails to return to battery with their spring even after two trips back to Kimber on their dime and all kind of work done to the pistol.

Heck if you point the pistol muzzle straight up, gravity will prevent the slide from going into battery.

Wolf XP spring specially made for 4" Kimbers and it has run just dandy for well over 1000 rounds.

Go figure.

[jocko]

stick with wolffs...

[Rainman48314]

Update on the recoil springs.

Well, I just received the recoil springs from Wolff, stock number, 52820 and the 52818, 20.5 and 18.0 pounds respectively.

They both install and the gun operates as it it should, I can lock the slide back easily by hand with either.

I don't know what Kahr sent me, other then it's obviously the incorrect spring, I'm thinking something might have gotten mixed up in packaging.

I sent a copy of my invoice to Jay and asked him to look into it, I'd like to be able to get the correct recoil assembly from the manufacturer...especially since I paid for one.

Other then that I'm good to go with the Wolff springs, they include a striker spring and an inner recoil spring in the package, as usual with Wolff you get more then you expect and it's always the right ones, at least so far for me anyway.While I love my new PM9, I have to note that my new Ruger Lc9 springs are $2.00 each for an inner or outer. The Kahr assembly needed for new PM9s is $24.95. I did get a free one from Kahr when the original retaining nut fell off. That was a B to get installed but all was fine 100 rounds later. Do you suppose Kahr has a "Voice of the Customer" program like Ruger? It was the impetus behind the LC9 and the new SR1911 .45 ACP

[Jitterbug]

Don't know, but it would be nice if all companies had such a program or listened to the consumer.