CCW, Police..happened sooner than expected

[Rainman48314]

Had my first LEO interaction while carrying. It only took five weeks from the issuance of my CPL. No traffic stops in the last ten years, other than being hit at an intersection by a driver failing to yield on red.

I was on the last full day of a week long golf vacation (home today), driving I-75 Southbound back to the resort in Gaylord, MI, having lost $110 at the Odawa Casino in Petoskey (typical losses x2), when a Michigan State Police cruiser lights me up. I'm truly puzzled since I had been inattentive while showing my G/F how to search my iPod for tunes to play thru the car system. I pull over but my G/F is starting to get panicky. I remind her that I'm legal and know what to do. She is reminded to keep hands visible and avoid sudden motions or getting chatty.

I roll down the window, mute the radio, place both hands at 12:00, and shout a "Good Afternoon, Officer" at the approaching LEO. He simply calls back his identifying greeting, "Michigan State Police". That struck me as odd, since their unique color of blue and markings are very recognizable to Interstate travellers.

The minute he was near my door, I advised him that "I have have a CPL and my pistol is inside my waistband at one o'clock". It was covered by a light windbreaker. He thanked me for informing him and asked if I knew why I was stopped. I was completely unsure. I hadn't been using cruise control as the freeway leg was just 7 miles long. As it turns out, I was doing 84 in a 70 mph zone.

He asked for the usual papers, I informed him where I had to reach and when I had to take my seat belt off. So far so good. My G/F's fears of me being roughly disarmed were eased. She now only wondered how expenseive the ticket would be. I speculated that it might be reduced to 79 in a 70. Before the Officer walked back to his cruiser, he asked what my driving record was like. I simply said he'd find it was "pretty good".

When he came back, he said "Let's keep it that way. I am only issuing a warning". Nice guy, very professional, exactly what I expected out of the MSP.

[RagnarD]

Good to hear! How old was he, relatively speaking? I've observed that older officers are a lot less likely to be high on themselves and looking for a reason to make a scene. Either way, sounds like this guy was mature enough to realize that there was no good reason to raise tensions and emotions with a disarmament.

Incidentally, I assume the law in Michigan is to notify any LEO that you're carrying?

[bonjorno2]

i am less than 30, and would not disarm someone legally carrying unless i felt it was the best choice considering all the factors at the moment of the traffic stop... Maybe that's a difference between training in different agencies.... In Florida you do not have to tell the officer you have a cwp, and no we can't see it from your mvr... we have to ask dispatch to look it up.

glad you had a good experience!

[Rainman48314]

Good to hear! How old was he, relatively speaking? I've observed that older officers are a lot less likely to be high on themselves and looking for a reason to make a scene. Either way, sounds like this guy was mature enough to realize that there was no good reason to raise tensions and emotions with a disarmament.

Incidentally, I assume the law in Michigan is to notify any LEO that you're carrying?Yes, we are required to immediately inform any LEO of our permit and weapon status. I'd say working out of the Gaylord Post, rather than a populous urban area, shaped his attitude. I'm 61 and I'd guess him as late thirties.

[BuckeyeBlast]

MSP is traditionally thought of as one of the most well respected law enforcement agencies in the country. I LOVE the old school big red light on their cruisers. Glad things went well for you.

http://www.jbot.ca/images/cars/02/02-33.jpg

[Rainman48314]

MSP is traditionally thought of as one of the most well respected law enforcement agencies in the country. I LOVE the old school big red light on their cruisers. Glad things went well for you.

http://www.jbot.ca/images/cars/02/02-33.jpgThey have my respect and thanks for what they do....and those vehicles are hard to misidentify!

[CJB]

In Fl - no notification needed. We're not s'posed to carry in bars, restaurants ok. No schools, no federal, no courthouse or police or fire stations. Oddly, many "state and local" buildings are fine to carry in.

[TheTman]

I've been stopped twice while carrying, I too remained with my hands at 12:00 or if the weather is nice, I might roll the drivers side down and place my left hand on the door sill in plain site until the LEO approached and I remained very still and didn't fidget around. I didn't go fishing for paperwork or licenses until they asked and could observe my movements. I then informed them I had my CC permit and that the gun was in the console while I was driving. They thanked me and asked me to refrain from getting into the console until they were done with me. To produce my registration I had to get into my glove box, and stated so and did so under their observation. One was a young lady local, and the other was a Kansas State Trooper. Both acted very professional. They took the paperwork back, the trooper took my CC permit too, the local didn't.
Both were very professional the Trooper gave me a warning, the local gave me a ticket of course. I got the impression from both that they thought I was a good citizen.

[OldLincoln]

Sorry, gotta ask.... what is that thing on the hood of the vehicles? Looks like something you grab when they lay you out on the hood.

Good stops, I appreciate professionals.

[CS534]

I usually don't cite guys with ccw's. Most of them however, forget to inform that they have a CCW unless they are carrying it. If they are driving their own car the info pops up right away when you run the plate (in Ohio) so once I know they have a CCW I wait and see if they bother to tell me. When they don't I yell at them!!!

[BuckeyeBlast]

Sorry, gotta ask.... what is that thing on the hood of the vehicles? Looks like something you grab when they lay you out on the hood.

Good stops, I appreciate professionals.

Many years ago, when they were pulling over a driver they would pull up next to the car and motion for the driver to pull over. That worked well in the daytime, but at night they couldn't see the officer's motion. So at night, that 'hood ornament' lights up and says "Stop". If a trooper pulled up along side of you and you saw that light up, you knew to pull over... and get your license and registration out (or throw your dope out the passenger window in a hurry ;) )

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews_impact/2009/05/large_statepolice_050509.jpg

[bonjorno2]

lol, too cool... i wish ours said learn how to drive!

[ltxi]

I usually don't cite guys with ccw's. Most of them however, forget to inform that they have a CCW unless they are carrying it. If they are driving their own car the info pops up right away when you run the plate (in Ohio) so once I know they have a CCW I wait and see if they bother to tell me. When they don't I yell at them!!!

So, in Ohio you're required to inform a LEO upon contact that you possess a state issued carry permit....even if you're not carrying a weapon/firearm? Just curious....mostly because it strikes me as a bit odd. Although I've never really thought about it and we have no "duty to inform" here.

[RagnarD]

So, in Ohio you're required to inform a LEO upon contact that you possess a state issued carry permit....even if you're not carrying a weapon/firearm? Just curious....mostly because it strikes me as a bit odd. Although I've never really thought about it and we have no "duty to inform" here.


I don't know about Ohio, but we do have a "duty to inform" law here in Louisiana if you're carrying. If you're not actually carrying at the time then there's no obligation to discuss your permit, but if you're carrying, you have to inform them and allow yourself to be disarmed if the LEO wants to.

It's always struck me as a little creepy that they specifically wrote the law saying you must allow yourself to be disarmed even with no cause. I can certainly understand there may be any number of things that may warrant temporary disarmament for the officer's safety, but that's true in every state and the officers are free to instruct the motorist/subject to do that if necessary, no creepy assume-the-position laws required.

[MikeyKahr]

So, in Ohio you're required to inform a LEO upon contact that you possess a state issued carry permit....even if you're not carrying a weapon/firearm? Just curious....mostly because it strikes me as a bit odd. Although I've never really thought about it and we have no "duty to inform" here.

ltxi, to answer your question about Ohio, yes most definitively. If I'm in the vehicle and carrying or on foot and carrying, I am required to inform LEO upon contact. If I'm in the vehicle and not carrying, I am still required to inform LEO that I'm licensed but unarmed. If the vehicle is registered in my name and I'm not in the vehicle, my wife has been instructed to still inform LEO that her husband is licensed to carry but he's not in vehicle and she is unarmed. Basically, the rule of thumb around here is inform, inform, inform. Some gray areas exist - say I'm in another's vehicle in back seat and they've been pulled over. I don't have to inform unless the LEO asks if there's a weapon in the vehicle - then I must inform.

Ohio has some of the most verbose laws and regulations about CCW in the country. Poorly written laws to start in fact that thankfully have been progressively fixed by new laws and regulations coming out. One example, when carrying in a car, I either have to have the loaded gun on my person, in glove box, or in a enclosed bag/container on the front passenger seat in clear view. Anywhere else is verboten. Say I forget to put the bag on the front seat - it's a violation. Say I forget to zip up the bag closed - it's a violation. Say I put it in the trunk without unloading it - it's a violation - even though I'm a CCW license holder (actually CHL holder, technically). Thankfully these rules are slowly being fixed with new legislation and certain funky laws will be changing here in 86 days....and hopefully more to come.

[jocko]

no wonder ur state is so fokked up!!!!

[MikeyKahr]

no wonder ur state is so fokked up!!!!

Very true....but it's home (for now). Until uncle Bawanna buys that shanty up in Wyoming and invites me out for a permanent family visit.

[MERCTECH]

Makes me glad Florida is not that way. I like not having to inform unless asked. Something about being disarmed, even to police. My instructor told us a story about a guy that was too informative about carrying, the cop disarmed him and took his rounds from his gun and didnt give them back. Which was bull because that was his property but didnt want to argue. Needless to say the guy will never again give up that information unless asked.

[Bawanna]

I would say a very small percentage of officers would ever disarm you. Most would appreciate knowing its there but would prefer to not see it or deal with it, provided of course your legal and stuff.

I'm not even sure what our law is here but I don't think we have to let an officer know. The key is cops do not like surprises. If your Registration is in the glove box and your gun is on top of it, I'd would definitely let the officer know the situation.

A freind had this happen and the officer said ok fine, just get the registration.

I don't mention I have a gun unless theres some viable reason for it to be necessary.

In our dept it is condidered a no no to display credentials to try and get out of a ticket unless it comes up. Some I know use the I'm carrying a weapon, it came with my badge to circumvent that no no.
I myself always hope it comes up but so far have not lucked out. I've gotten a few speeding tickets. Too aggressive I guess.
I do always send a business card along with the payment just for fun.

[ltxi]

ltxi, to answer your question about Ohio, yes most definitively. If I'm in the vehicle and carrying or on foot and carrying, I am required to inform LEO upon contact. If I'm in the vehicle and not carrying, I am still required to inform LEO that I'm licensed but unarmed. If the vehicle is registered in my name and I'm not in the vehicle, my wife has been instructed to still inform LEO that her husband is licensed to carry but he's not in vehicle and she is unarmed. Basically, the rule of thumb around here is inform, inform, inform. Some gray areas exist - say I'm in another's vehicle in back seat and they've been pulled over. I don't have to inform unless the LEO asks if there's a weapon in the vehicle - then I must inform.

Ohio has some of the most verbose laws and regulations about CCW in the country. Poorly written laws to start in fact that thankfully have been progressively fixed by new laws and regulations coming out. One example, when carrying in a car, I either have to have the loaded gun on my person, in glove box, or in a enclosed bag/container on the front passenger seat in clear view. Anywhere else is verboten. Say I forget to put the bag on the front seat - it's a violation. Say I forget to zip up the bag closed - it's a violation. Say I put it in the trunk without unloading it - it's a violation - even though I'm a CCW license holder (actually CHL holder, technically). Thankfully these rules are slowly being fixed with new legislation and certain funky laws will be changing here in 86 days....and hopefully more to come.

Thanks, I appreciate the explanation. It actually doesn't come as much of a surprise....I used to live and work in Ohio, but left well before the current carry laws were passed. I guess I understand, although don't personally agree with, the logic if you guys have a ccw data base flag that automatically comes up when you run the plate. We don't have a cmprehensive version of that here, either.

[jocko]

Indiana does not have this data base on a moving vehicle violation, nor through BMV records either, which IMO is good. so if a cop doesnt ask, I don't say anything. we are not required to either. OPhio is damnnear as fokke dup as Illinois, ashame we Indiana people hav eto put up with adjoing states that are ******-s about gun owner ship.

They really need a federal mandate that allows any person with his own state ccw permti to carry in any state period. Under the obama administration, I don't see that happening at all.

anyway a happy 4th to all the kahr forum members..

[ltxi]

At least Ohio is a shall issue state now and accepts a lot of other state's permits. If you want to see seriously screwed up, take a look at today's leading poster child for draconian gun laws...New Jersey. They're now at the point where they're almost making Mass look half way sane.

I definitely agree the holy grail is DL like, federally mandated reciprocity. I agree it's a dream, but at least it's now a dream as opposed to totally unthinkable.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Ohio's not as bad as some make it out to be. There's a lot of technicalities w/ the current CCW, but at least now you can follow the law and have the right to be armed and able to protect your family. Ohio's made a lot of progress in the last 10 years, and we continue to make more and more progress and get a lot of those technicalities out of there. No gun roster, no approved list, only mag restriction is for mags over 30, other than that, pretty much everything OK w/ ATF is OK w/ OH.

[Jeremiah/Az]

We do not have to notify LEO's here in Az. of CCW unless they ask. I have talked to several retired LEO's at the gun club & they said that they would prefer to be told up front. Every member that I brought this up with said that they hand the LEO their permit with their license. I have never been stopped.

[MikeyKahr]

Ohio's not as bad as some make it out to be. There's a lot of technicalities w/ the current CCW, but at least now you can follow the law and have the right to be armed and able to protect your family. Ohio's made a lot of progress in the last 10 years, and we continue to make more and more progress and get a lot of those technicalities out of there. No gun roster, no approved list, only mag restriction is for mags over 30, other than that, pretty much everything OK w/ ATF is OK w/ OH.

Agreed BuckeyeBlast, it's not as bad as some make it out to be. We could be Illinois and have no chance at CCW? Or be Massachusetts or California and have to check a list to see which gun we're allowed to get, right? I'd much rather have Ohio's laws. And I, like you, appreciatre having the right to be armed and be able to protect my family if needed. And now with the governorship, legislature and state senate in pro-2A hands (let's hope Kasich continues to follow though!), we'll hopefully continue on to better laws (i.e like Indiana, right jocko?).


I definitely agree the holy grail is DL like, federally mandated reciprocity. I agree it's a dream, but at least it's now a dream as opposed to totally unthinkable.

Would federally mandated reciprocity be fantastic, yes, but it's not holy grail land. I'd still have to disarm in Illinois! Holy grail territory would be the right to carry without need for a license or extra regulation at all. I don't need a permit to go to church, I don't need a permit to write for or read a newspaper, I shouldn't be required to get a permit to carry and defend myself and my family. That would be holy grail territory (yes, some states now have that, but I'm speaking nationally). Ohio's now considering a new law with just such a provision but I don't think the votes are there for it.