PM series recoil guide disassembly

[CJB]

From Wolff springs site (gunsprings.com)

"The Kahr PM series uses a dual spring recoil spring system. The outer springs slips right off and the inner springs can be changed by careful disassembly of the recoil guide components."

I'm wondering here... what careful disassembly? Hows that baby come apart, and is it made like the one on the PM45?

[Bawanna]

Same deal. Hold the rod and unscrew the loctited retaining nut. Try to catch it before it hits the moon.

The careful tricky part is getting it back on and loctited so it don't come loose and launch itself at the range.

I'd never bother replacing the inner myself. If it comes to that I'll buy a new assembly. I'll just replace the outer myself.

[CJB]

Excellent. I thought perhaps button was mashed onto the inner.

Seems to me, you could just assemble the unit into the gun without the button, get the slide racked, and then screw the button on. Maybe I'm missing something?

[jocko]

something has to hold that inner rod so the button will screw off. I just took to small peaces of hardwood and with the inner rod now fully exposed, clamped that rod flat washer in a vise and heated the end cap and it came right off, nothing fly's south that way..

unless one really thinks it isnecessary that inner sprng can be left alone and just replace the outter when needed, but again that is their call to make.

at one time kahr used to sellus owners just the outter spring, but they have stopped doing that and now want to rip you off for theentire assembly, which IMO is certainly not needed.

alittle better explanatin: That flat wahser thing I refer to is that flat peace that goes up against the barrel lug

[earle8888]

Used Brass jaws on vise with Vee filed in, like a V-block. Used Hemostat thru spring, just behind the nut to removed, an onto the rod. Yep putting back is tougher. I used Blue, didn't have the red as recommended by Wolffe. Many hundreds of rounds since and NO Problems!

[zhills]

Hello Fellows,

Not to hijack this thread, but this happenned to me today.
Went to the range with the new CM9, great day! Most likely to doing all the prepping on the gun from jockos prep page. Shot 100 rds. of WBB FMJ.
100% no issues all rounds. Had one premature slide lock back happen, but I think my thumb caused that.

When I got home and disassembled the CM9, the whole recoil spring assembly came apart, except I had to pull the large spring off the flange.
I noticed the stainless nut was missing from the end of the guiderod.
Must have happened at the range. Is this going to happen allot. I saw a post from another member once, who had the same thing happen. The CM9 was supposed to replace my Ruger .380 LCP as my full time carry weapon. But if parts are going to fly off! I am starting to think the Ruger is more dependable.

Can I get the stainless nut from Kahr? I called them today. But of course it was not the normal business hours phone prompt. I am hoping they are not going to tell me I have to order the whole recoil spring assembly, That would make me mad, plus it would be very poor business service on Kahr's end for customer service. They must know this is a problem.

Carl

[jocko]

call kahr and tell them what happened and they will send you a new complete unit. don't ask for the nut. No this is rare, when and if u ever take that nut off, red locktite it back on.

Ur really exagerating this to. It is not a problem, sure it has happened before, it is very rare. U stated you had to pull the large spring off the flange, are u referring to that back flat peace on the recoil assembly???If you are, my bet is that u put the recoil spring on backwards, The open end goes towards the front of the slide.

Sh-t happens, kahr will take care of it, It is not a problem but evidently someone forgot to put any locktite on that nut at the factory. I sure would not condemn the gun over that either...They will send you a complete new unit and you willnow have another outter spring replacement which in essense is saving you $25 to..

[zhills]

call kahr and tell them what happened and they will send you a new complete unit. don't ask for the nut. No this is rare, when and if u ever take that nut off, red locktite it back on.

Ur really exagerating this to. It is not a problem, sure it has happened before, it is very rare. U stated you had to pull the large spring off the flange, are u referring to that back flat peace on the recoil assembly???If you are, my bet is that u put the recoil spring on backwards, The open end goes towards the front of the slide.

Sh-t happens, kahr will take care of it, It is not a problem but evidently someone forgot to put any locktite on that nut at the factory. I sure would not condemn the gun over that either...They will send you a complete new unit and you willnow have another outter spring replacement which in essense is saving you $25 to..

Hi Jocko,

No, not condeming the CM9, I love the gun, even though it is new to me, I have learned many things about the gun from this site. Like modifiying my follower!

No the recoil spring assembly is correct, the small spring is on the guiderod, which the metal flange mounts over the small spring and guiderod, than the stainless nut, than the closed end of the large recoil spring slips over the metal flange, and meets the flared edge of the metal flange, than the open coil end goes to the muzzel end of the slide. I am sure after as you say 32000 rounds your large recoil spring probably falls of the metal flange. But when new, they are a little snug.

I might consider on how to weld that nut to the guiderod instead of depending on locktight?

[OldLincoln]

I'm glad you guys pointed out the nut that unscrews is the small one next to the muzzle. For a long time when folks would talk about it I would look real hard at the big one and swore it wasn't threaded. Finally figured it out and changed both springs when I got the Wolf stronger set.

[wyntrout]

Save the recoil assembly parts and make a new end nut as I did:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3934

I hate to waste stuff. I had just gotten my PM45 back from Kahr and after a trip to the range my end nut was gone. I told Kahr and they sent me the whole assembly free... and quickly. I have the old one for a range spare now.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

Hi Jocko,

No, not condeming the CM9, I love the gun, even though it is new to me, I have learned many things about the gun from this site. Like modifiying my follower!

No the recoil spring assembly is correct, the small spring is on the guiderod, which the metal flange mounts over the small spring and guiderod, than the stainless nut, than the closed end of the large recoil spring slips over the metal flange, and meets the flared edge of the metal flange, than the open coil end goes to the muzzel end of the slide. I am sure after as you say 32000 rounds your large recoil spring probably falls of the metal flange. But when new, they are a little snug.

I might consider on how to weld that nut to the guiderod instead of depending on locktight?

don't weld that nut and screw up the end looks, the extra heat might also weaken something. good ol red locktite or the green will keep it on forever. The green is really strong and u can apply it AFTER your thread the nut on as it seeps between the threads but it is stronger yet than the red..

some of the outter recoil springs go in the recoil tube tight and not freely, that is OK and will harm nothing but intie that spring will also take its pre set and then will slide off that recoil rod tube OK, maybe not fall off but it will be easier to remove. I use that remeington spray dry lube on my recoil assembly.

I have changed my outter recoil spring many times over 32,000 rounds ..

[zhills]

Save the recoil assembly parts and make a new end nut as I did:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=3934

I hate to waste stuff. I had just gotten my PM45 back from Kahr and after a trip to the range my end nut was gone. I told Kahr and they sent me the whole assembly free... and quickly. I have the old one for a range spare now.

Wynn:)

Thanks Wynn,

I found your posts and pics to be very helpful, I am good at doing things like this, I will probably do it to the old one, and install the new one from
Kahr,

I am curious about the spring length differance?
Will this be the case when I get the new assembly?
I saw on the Kahr website yesterday that they added the CM9 link, at the bottom of their 9mm parts list page.
Thanks again for your helpful hints.

I hope Jocko has not taken my post in the wrong way. I think the CM9 is a great gun, I enjoy shooting it very much. The quality of the parts are excellent as is the fit and finish, Being new to the Kahr's and spending
close to $500, I was just surprised that I had to do some tweaking to get the gun right. I have always enjoyed my Rugers over the years, and in many ways the CM9 reminds me of my Ruger P94-DC .40 That gun is also stainless and built like a tank. But I guess I have been lucky with my Rugers, as I have had to do nothing other than shoot and clean.

I am sure when all is done, The CM9 will provide many years of dependable service. With the new recoil spring assembly, will I have to subtract the 100 rds. shot yesterday, and shot 200 more for the CM9 for breakin period?

[jocko]

jocko understands, no problem, things happen. if kahr sends the right recoil assembly your spring will have a 15 coil count and will be perfect. jWhen they are new sometimes they are tight to install but oncein ur ok anhd they will take a pre desgned set after that. Use ur original spring and save the new one.

[zhills]

don't weld that nut and screw up the end looks, the extra heat might also weaken something. good ol red locktite or the green will keep it on forever. The green is really strong and u can apply it AFTER your thread the nut on as it seeps between the threads but it is stronger yet than the red..

some of the outter recoil springs go in the recoil tube tight and not freely, that is OK and will harm nothing but intie that spring will also take its pre set and then will slide off that recoil rod tube OK, maybe not fall off but it will be easier to remove. I use that remeington spray dry lube on my recoil assembly.

I have changed my outter recoil spring many times over 32,000 rounds ..

Thanks Jocko,

I will pickup some green locktite. And hopefuly be able to call Kahr
during business hours, to order the new recoil spring assembly. I added their phone # to my cell phone so I can call from work.

[garyb]

I used Blue, didn't have the red as recommended by Wolffe. Many hundreds of rounds since and NO Problems!

I used the blue on my recoil spring end cap too. Simply tightened it down good. Did this over 6 months ago. I check it every time I clean and it has not loosened up at all. I certainly would not weld it on. Way over kill. Seems that most lock tite type agents will do the job if it is replaced tight. Also seems that even with the blue, it could be removed again if necessary.

[wyntrout]

The Permatex Green was all I could find here and it's a lot stronger than the Loctite Green. The trick is to really clean the screw and nut thread, then assemble and tighten, and then apply to the union. A little goes a long way... it is sucked inhttp://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/Permatex%20Info/PermatexInfoLarger_0480.jpg by capillary action and after drying is very secure.

Notice the instructions at the bottom.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

All things being equal... the alloy, tempering, wire diameter, and coil diameter, the most important thing is the coil count. The new spring should be always be longer. They are designed with the set in mind so that the spring performs as designed after taking a set... getting shorter under constant compression. That's one of those Simpson "Doh!"s.

Wynn:)

[jocko]

more than likely damn near any locktite will hold that end nut on, blue should work fine. I prefer the red as I use it alot around my shop but I do have the green which penetrates the thread once the nut is on tight and it is a real bugger to break loose, but it is designed for bigger bolts for sure. If u not gonna take that nut off again then indeed red or green locktite it and just forget about that area ever giving an issue.

[OldLincoln]

Since my reloads are simple and consistent I set the lock nuts on my dies carefully then use Green Permatex (who bought Locktite in 2002). If I have to make an adjustment I just put acetone on a paper towel and drip it onto the threads. In a minute the locktite is "unlocked". Plus acetone cleans up the threads before assembly. I bought high strength red, blue and green when I finally found them in an auto parts store. Red is for the guide rod cause acetone will undo it also.

[zhills]

Wow,

I learned allot in these last 4 or 5 posts.
I am sure I can find the red locktite. Napa is just down the street.
I will certainly clean all parts well, apply, and tighten.

I am starting to wonder! I use the 3M NC cleaner to clean the dirt
and oil from the CM9. Do you guy's think this could have broke the bond on
the nut, once locktited by Kahr??:eek:

[jocko]

NO, absolutely not, red locktite bond and even blue is a very tight bond. actually what ol lincoln said about acewtone is the first I have ever heard of working on red or green locktite. We learn something every day.

My bet is that your recoil assembly was not locktited by kahr, not sure even if kahr really assemblys the recoil assembly as it is ceretainly a vendor made unit and it might just come to kahr all assembled. U ust got one that either the nut was not on tight in the first place, more than likely that was the culprit as I am not totaly convined that locktite is needed but we all agree as to: WHY NOT!!

guarantee u any auto parts store sells red or blue locktite in small tubes to.

[OldLincoln]

Acetone is a main ingredient of brake cleaners but don't know about 3M specifically. I use my Walmart stuff for some acetone use when I don't care if the spray is big. As long as it runs down the threads you will be fine.

[garyb]

Actually what I used is Uncle Mike's Gun Tite, by Loctite. It is a blue color material but in a green label small tube. Some old stuff I had laying around and have been using on my muzzleloader stuff (locks, etc...) for many years. Seems to have done the job on this Kahr spring assembly. I am guessing that it is probably the same stuff as the blue by Loctite. Interesting info from OldLincoln about using Acetone to break it up. Sounds like any loctite would work fine and it would come apart with the OldLincoln acetone trick. Thanks for sharing.

I'll try to remember this acetone trick. Best way to do that is to tell my wife. She remembers everything and has unopened files about me that I never knew existed from way back since who knows when. Better to not get into that subject.....haha.