for kimber solo owners or soon to be

[jocko]

3 posts found on a kimber chat fourm.

Well i owned a Solo for about a month, and loved the looks and feel of the gun, But i had many problems with it. Failure on top of failure, on top of springs coming loose under the left side grip......etc. The black finish on the lower part of the gun came off very easily. After a month it looked like the most abused, oldest gun i own. ........ SOLD IT......
Bought a Kahr PM9, and LOVE this gun. What a great little carry 9mm. And i still look at the Solo every time i am in a store that has one, with the thought that someday Kimber will work out the bugs, and i will once again own one. Good Luck & God Bless


#2 It ain't good. Couldn't get it to shoot more than two rounds before it ejected the mag. Kept thumbs far away from the mag release to be sure I wasn't causing the problems. Nope. Tried 5 times to get it to finish a mag, no luck. I say "finish a mag" which isn't really accurate, as after forcing the 5th cartridge in, couldn't get the 6th to begin to go in all the way. Opened the mag, checked floorplates, (there's two, one bottom plate, and one above it with a protuberance to hold the bottom plate in place), spring, follower, etc, no luck. Tried banging the 5 loaded rounds on the counter to seat them, no luck.

I was using 147gr ammo, as suggested for break-in, (124 to 147). Shot fine, when it shot, but two rounds then no mag is not acceptable. I'll call Kimber next week to wee what their answer is, I'll keep ya'll posted. I was so hoping what I'd heard about Kimbers was an anomaly, as this is my first Kimber.

#3 I have put a little over 500 rounds through the new Kimber Solo.
Thoughts:

This is a one hand use gun unless your willing to get pinched by the slide.
My skin actually held the slide back from cycling fully.

Lost a screw in the handle, they should have been lock tited from the factory but Kimber is known for their lack of detail and just charging more to make you not notice their short comings.

The slide lock spring also came loose, causing it to lock back on nearly every round (easily fixed) but could have been more easily avoided by a more conscientious quality control safeguard.

Grip angle is Pleasently and surprising is more aggressive, somewhere in between a Glock and a 1911, still would be more appropriate if it were a few degrees greater, but over all shoots straight during stress-fire shooting drills.
A slightly longer beaver tail would be nice, but not truly needed. But would be nice, really nice....

Overall, I'm pleased with the design and the way it shoots.

I predict, this will be James bond next gun. It's damn sexy and the ladies consider it one of the most attractive guns in my box. It's funny how they really do comment on its looks. No it does NOT come in pink...yet

#4
I was waiting for the review on this gun because I want one!!!
Tonight, I think I changed my mind. I have a nice job but I think I need to practice with my carry gun often, but I don't have that kind of money in order to burn 1 dollar a shot.
This gun will only work if fired with a minimum of 124 grain premium hollowpoint ammo according with Kimber engineer

[Barth]

I have a Sig Sauer P239/357 that I love to pieces - but it's just a little too big.
Was looking at the Sig Sauer P290 and the Kimber Solo.
But after much online research wasn't comfortable either.

Ended up going with a some what lesser know manufacturer (Kahr).
Got a MK40 Elite and haven't looked back...

[mr surveyor]

I have a Sig Sauer P239/357 that I love to pieces - but it's just a little too big.
Was looking at the Sig Sauer P290 and the Kimber Solo.
But after much online research wasn't comfortable either.

Ended up going with a some what lesser know manufacturer (Kahr).
Got a MK40 Elite and haven't looked back...


I also heve a P239 in .40 S&W (never saw the need to get the .357 Sig barrel). You're right about it's bulk for CC. I do carry it occassionally, but at 1.2 inch width there are other more comfortable alternatives. My Sig has been no less than 100% since I bought it (used), but as I get older (not near as old as Jocko though) I tend to want to simplify my life. My P239 is DA/SA with a decocker and I don't even want the bother of the thought of having to decock in the unfortunate event I do have to use it in a SD situation. I am quickly being dragged away from the SA/DA and 1911 platforms kicking and screaming. My daytime carry has always been a revolver, so I can carry shot shells and hardball, but my social carry has been all over the place for the last few years. A couple of years ago I decided to keep it simple and move to a DA only style of daily carry.... Ruger SP101 in .357 mag for "field duty" and a CW9 for social... it works...


(hope I'm not off topic....forgot what the thread titloe was:D)


surv

[yqtszhj]

Darn, my CM9 has 350 flawless rounds through it so far with no problems I can mention. I should have gotten a Solo so I would have something to talk about.

[jocko]

it's a new entry for kimber, IMO a new world for kimber to, AIt will either get right or the shooters will bury it... Beta testers ar enot kimber techs, but guys like you and me who shoot um like we stole um.

Ur probably right, ur cm9 is indeed a real POS. damn guns just go bang all the time..

[Barth]

I also heve a P239 in .40 S&W (never saw the need to get the .357 Sig barrel). You're right about it's bulk for CC. I do carry it occassionally, but at 1.2 inch width there are other more comfortable alternatives. My Sig has been no less than 100% since I bought it (used), but as I get older (not near as old as Jocko though) I tend to want to simplify my life. My P239 is DA/SA with a decocker and I don't even want the bother of the thought of having to decock in the unfortunate event I do have to use it in a SD situation. I am quickly being dragged away from the SA/DA and 1911 platforms kicking and screaming. My daytime carry has always been a revolver, so I can carry shot shells and hardball, but my social carry has been all over the place for the last few years. A couple of years ago I decided to keep it simple and move to a DA only style of daily carry.... Ruger SP101 in .357 mag for "field duty" and a CW9 for social... it works...


(hope I'm not off topic....forgot what the thread titloe was:D)


surv

Right there with you.
Weekends - MK40 Elite with night sights.
Weekdays – S&W 342 ti Centennial DAO 38 +P with;
XS Big Dot front sight,
Stainless Steel trigger,
Spring kit/trigger job,
Eagle Black Onyx Secret Service grips.

Both loaded with Speer Short Barrel HPs.
I like the K.I.S.S. method for self-defense.

[bonjorno2]

that 342 is brutal in your hands.... or at least mine was.

[Barth]

that 342 is brutal in your hands.... or at least mine was.

At 11.6 ounces it’s no fun to shoot.
I practice firing a few boxes of 38 +P out of a rented 23 ounce Stainless Steel 640 with boot grips.
Ergonomically it’s the same gun.
Then 10 rounds out of the titanium gun just to feel the recoil.

It’s a carry a lot and shoot a little gun.
I think of it as a “point blank” gun anyway.
And it’s amazingly fast into action and point shooting!

[mr surveyor]

For the sake of me trying to post something on topic....if I were to really focus my attention back to the 1911 platform (which ain't gonna happen due to the need for the revolver "in the field"), I would certainly want to jump on the Solo bandwagon. I love the engineering concept of single action striker fired system. But... I don't need no steenkin' safeties to trip me up. I have become a devout fan of "point and click....(bang)"


surv

[Barth]

For the sake of me trying to post something on topic....if I were to really focus my attention back to the 1911 platform (which ain't gonna happen due to the need for the revolver "in the field"), I would certainly want to jump on the Solo bandwagon. I love the engineering concept of single action striker fired system. But... I don't need no steenkin' safeties to trip me up. I have become a devout fan of "point and click....(bang)"


surv

Other than early reviews, the safety was the only thing I didn't like about the Solo too. Years ago you could order HK USP 45 compacts in various configurations. I ordered my sans an external safety.

[mr surveyor]

but... I would not carry a charged (90% cocked striker) Kimber Solo without the safety engaged no more than I would carry my Kimber Compact with the hammer back on a live round without the safety engaged. If I were back into the mindset of carrying a 1911, I would certainly take the Solo... or for that matter a Sig P238 (except I've sworn off of .380 acp). My point is, the Solo is only safe to carry chambered WITH the safety engaged. Another control to train (re-train) for in an engagement, as well as after an engagement.

As strong as my lust is for many of the new wonder nines, I will have to resist the temptation to follow the federal government's practice of breaking the bank and just save my box tops and Green Stamps until I can redeem them for a new CM9.

[Barth]

but... I would not carry a charged (90% cocked striker) Kimber Solo without the safety engaged no more than I would carry my Kimber Compact with the hammer back on a live round without the safety engaged. If I were back into the mindset of carrying a 1911, I would certainly take the Solo... or for that matter a Sig P238 (except I've sworn off of .380 acp). My point is, the Solo is only safe to carry chambered WITH the safety engaged. Another control to train (re-train) for in an engagement, as well as after an engagement.


I didn't know that.
Thought it was a striker gun like a Glock/Kahr/XD.....
Thought the safety was additional, but not required.
Now I really don't want one!
A HK P7 is the only SA I would concider for self defense.
(That's just me, locked and cocked I never warmed up to)

[mr surveyor]

Barth

I have to agree.... even though I really admire the concept of the single action, striker fired platform...... I also have to cling to the KISS principle.

The DA platforms have really become my preferred every day carries.


surv

[O'Dell]

I also heve a P239 in .40 S&W (never saw the need to get the .357 Sig barrel). You're right about it's bulk for CC. I do carry it occassionally, but at 1.2 inch width there are other more comfortable alternatives. My Sig has been no less than 100% since I bought it (used), but as I get older (not near as old as Jocko though) I tend to want to simplify my life. My P239 is DA/SA with a decocker and I don't even want the bother of the thought of having to decock in the unfortunate event I do have to use it in a SD situation. I am quickly being dragged away from the SA/DA and 1911 platforms kicking and screaming. My daytime carry has always been a revolver, so I can carry shot shells and hardball, but my social carry has been all over the place for the last few years. A couple of years ago I decided to keep it simple and move to a DA only style of daily carry.... Ruger SP101 in .357 mag for "field duty" and a CW9 for social... it works...


(hope I'm not off topic....forgot what the thread titloe was:D)


surv

We seem to be going in opposite directions. Right now I'm trying to convince myself that I need the P239 in my LGS showcase. I know it's a bit heavy, and the SW990L sitting next to it is a lot lighter, and cheaper, but I like that SIG. If given a choice I'll take a hammer fired gun any day. I also like the DA/SA in my SIGs, HK's and S&W's, because that what I've been mostly shooting for over 30 years. My second choice would be a good 1911 SA.

[Barth]

We seem to be going in opposite directions. Right now I'm trying to convince myself that I need the P239 in my LGS showcase. I know it's a bit heavy, and the SW990L sitting next to it is a lot lighter, and cheaper, but I like that SIG. If given a choice I'll take a hammer fired gun any day. I also like the DA/SA in my SIGs, HK's and S&W's, because that what I've been mostly shooting for over 30 years. My second choice would be a good 1911 SA.

You must get the P239 NOW.
Don't wait, don't think, don't do anything short of getting that gun.

[O'Dell]

You must get the P239 NOW.
Don't wait, don't think, don't do anything short of getting that gun.

I'm sorta guessing, but is that an endorsement?

[Barth]

I'm sorta guessing, but is that an endorsement?

Buy now and we’ll talk later – LOL!
Seriously, I absolutely LOVE my P239/357.
OMG it’s amazing.

Bought it used for $550.00 NIB with Hogue finger grove
rubber wrap around combat grips. Then sent the slide to Sig and has Siglite night sights put on it. It’s a SA/DA (not DAK or SRT).

The feel, fit and finish is outstanding.
The 357 necked down cartridge will not FTF and runs 1300 FPS out of the 3.6 inch barrel.
Plus you can drop in a 40 barrel and get 40 mags and now it’s a forty.
The trigger is better than my Sig P220 and it’s more accurate (for me).
But the best part of all is the total lack of recoil. It’s super loud, big flash, hits like a 357 magnum
and recoils like a 22. You will be blown away.

The 40 has to be even sweeter than the 357.

(BTW: The Hogue grips are a must. Let your friends shoot it and just smile...)

[jocko]

but... I would not carry a charged (90% cocked striker) Kimber Solo without the safety engaged no more than I would carry my Kimber Compact with the hammer back on a live round without the safety engaged. If I were back into the mindset of carrying a 1911, I would certainly take the Solo... or for that matter a Sig P238 (except I've sworn off of .380 acp). My point is, the Solo is only safe to carry chambered WITH the safety engaged. Another control to train (re-train) for in an engagement, as well as after an engagement.

As strong as my lust is for many of the new wonder nines, I will have to resist the temptation to follow the federal government's practice of breaking the bank and just save my box tops and Green Stamps until I can redeem them for a new CM9.

for some maybe what u said would be acceptable to many, for a safety is a safety, some people like them I personally do,if available, but what I don't like is the half to shoo tpremium ammo for reliability. I buy a gun to shoot not to look at. It would break me up b ig time or just cut my shooting back to ab out nothing and then the purpose for me of owning a defense gun is kinda lost.

The nice thing with the kahr PM9 with the safety model is that with the safety off the gun acts just like ours does, so IMO we have a nice choice there but with the solo, ur damn well gonna safety that gun every time as it is a single action. Kimber even states that.Plus this gun no doubt from reading more chat lines has got it growing pains to. I think they rushed it!! but it is one purtty sob.

[Rainman48314]

3 posts found on a kimber chat fourm.

Well i owned a Solo for about a month, and loved the looks and feel of the gun, But i had many problems with it. Failure on top of failure, on top of springs coming loose under the left side grip......etc. The black finish on the lower part of the gun came off very easily. After a month it looked like the most abused, oldest gun i own. ........ SOLD IT......
Bought a Kahr PM9, and LOVE this gun. What a great little carry 9mm. And i still look at the Solo every time i am in a store that has one, with the thought that someday Kimber will work out the bugs, and i will once again own one. Good Luck & God Bless


#2 It ain't good. Couldn't get it to shoot more than two rounds before it ejected the mag. Kept thumbs far away from the mag release to be sure I wasn't causing the problems. Nope. Tried 5 times to get it to finish a mag, no luck. I say "finish a mag" which isn't really accurate, as after forcing the 5th cartridge in, couldn't get the 6th to begin to go in all the way. Opened the mag, checked floorplates, (there's two, one bottom plate, and one above it with a protuberance to hold the bottom plate in place), spring, follower, etc, no luck. Tried banging the 5 loaded rounds on the counter to seat them, no luck.

I was using 147gr ammo, as suggested for break-in, (124 to 147). Shot fine, when it shot, but two rounds then no mag is not acceptable. I'll call Kimber next week to wee what their answer is, I'll keep ya'll posted. I was so hoping what I'd heard about Kimbers was an anomaly, as this is my first Kimber.

#3 I have put a little over 500 rounds through the new Kimber Solo.
Thoughts:

This is a one hand use gun unless your willing to get pinched by the slide.
My skin actually held the slide back from cycling fully.

Lost a screw in the handle, they should have been lock tited from the factory but Kimber is known for their lack of detail and just charging more to make you not notice their short comings.

The slide lock spring also came loose, causing it to lock back on nearly every round (easily fixed) but could have been more easily avoided by a more conscientious quality control safeguard.

Grip angle is Pleasently and surprising is more aggressive, somewhere in between a Glock and a 1911, still would be more appropriate if it were a few degrees greater, but over all shoots straight during stress-fire shooting drills.
A slightly longer beaver tail would be nice, but not truly needed. But would be nice, really nice....

Overall, I'm pleased with the design and the way it shoots.

I predict, this will be James bond next gun. It's damn sexy and the ladies consider it one of the most attractive guns in my box. It's funny how they really do comment on its looks. No it does NOT come in pink...yet

#4
I was waiting for the review on this gun because I want one!!!
Tonight, I think I changed my mind. I have a nice job but I think I need to practice with my carry gun often, but I don't have that kind of money in order to burn 1 dollar a shot.
This gun will only work if fired with a minimum of 124 grain premium hollowpoint ammo according with Kimber engineer

Looking at these one at a time,

Guy #1 Can hardly wait to buy the gun again.

Guy #4 doesn't own one!!!!!

Guy #3 either has a gun that doesn't fit his large fat hands or has a technique issue if the slide is biting him

Of the four magazine reviews I read, where the author has fired the gun, it has been flawlless. Means little, a sample size of 4 is inadequate.

Read range reports from many more than four (4) OWNERS which were all positive.

[Barth]

I've read about quality control issues and a fussiness with brand and weight of ammo (with the Solo). Still, it's a brand new gun/design for Kimber and will likely have growing pains. Even the Sig Sauer P238 had them and I'm steering clear of the P290 for a while for the same reason. Sig Sauer and Kimber both make fine guns.
But in these tough economic times everyone seems to rush to market. Just like a first model car, it's usually wise to not rush in and wait for the second release.
IMHO

(The SA only is the deal breaker for me.
I've carried just about every way possible and have settled in
on pocket carry in 90 degree Florida. No way I'm going locked and cocked
with a rocket in my pocket!)

[jeepster09]

The above reasons are why I LOVE MY PARA ORDNANCES. Double action only, light weight, sweet trigger and a serious caliber! :cool:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0953-1.jpg

[JFootin]

Nice pic! That is a potent looking carry gun! How much does it weigh?

Also, you said double action only. Does that mean the trigger will not lock back in SA mode? How many pounds is the trigger pull?

[jeepster09]

Correct, no single action, very light trigger [they call them LDA, for Light Double Action], only weighs 24 ounces, available in 9MM or 45. Mine is 45.

http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=67



http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1159.jpg

[Barth]

Correct, no single action, very light trigger [they call them LDA, for Light Double Action], only weighs 24 ounces, available in 9MM or 45. Mine is 45.

http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=67



http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1159.jpg

Very nice.
Looks like XS systems Big Dot sight and maybe magnaport?

[Barth]

Talk about "off topic" - LOL!
This is what has been catching my eye lately -
Glock 27 40 S&W EXO Talo Special edition

http://www.millerrodandgun.com/images/Glock-27-ExoTalo-40_0703.jpg

[jeepster09]

Very nice.
Looks like XS systems Big Dot sight and maybe magnaport?


Yes....

All my guns [almost] have XS Sights. If you have the need for more rounds, I also like the Para Carry 12 which holds 13 rounds.

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1201-1.jpg

[OldLincoln]

Since we're already off topic.... What's the big deal about hammer fired pistols? I look at striker fired as a normal evolution of guns and figure hammers will be a thing of the past. But then a lot of folks prefer them. I have my 1911, but it was built in the 70's - over 40 years ago. I don't shy away from carrying Condition 1, but don't prefer the hammer.

[O'Dell]

Since we're already off topic.... What's the big deal about hammer fired pistols? I look at striker fired as a normal evolution of guns and figure hammers will be a thing of the past. But then a lot of folks prefer them. I have my 1911, but it was built in the 70's - over 40 years ago. I don't shy away from carrying Condition 1, but don't prefer the hammer.

Personal preference I guess. My first pistol was a HP in 1966, and I shot that and 1911's through the seventies. [Side note: I qualified for the 1968 Olympics with a hammer fired gun, but got sent to SE Asia, so I didn't make it] Anyway I discovered SIG's about 1980 and stuck with them until now. I don't even remember my first striker gun but it was probably a KT or Taurus, neither of which worked out. Today I have Kahrs and an M&P 45 which I like very much. I also have the LCP, which isn't much fun, but sure is convenient. All the rest of my S&W's, SIG's, HK's, and 1911's are hammer fired. I guess it boils down to what you are used to.

[jocko]

and some things just die hard to. I will say this about the PARA LDA guns, they have the finest trigger system for a hammer fired gun or for that matter even a striker fired gun that I have ever owned. For some reason my Para 9 would not stay right for me and I tried real hard but to no avail. If I was looking for a 9 or 45 today in a 1911 style frame, it would certainly be a Para. But they also have QC problems. Not sure since they moved their plant from canada to the U. S. wheter it has gotten better or worse. I know I was not impressed with their warranty service center in siervelille tn...

[Barth]

Since we're already off topic.... What's the big deal about hammer fired pistols? I look at striker fired as a normal evolution of guns and figure hammers will be a thing of the past. But then a lot of folks prefer them. I have my 1911, but it was built in the 70's - over 40 years ago. I don't shy away from carrying Condition 1, but don't prefer the hammer.

I'm no expert, as evidence by my lack of knowledge about SA vs DA striker action. But my biggest issue with striker guns is the lack of double strike capability. I like having a second chance on a primmer during a miss fire.
It's rare, but out of literally hundreds of LE rounds I did have one miss fire
with my P239. I smiled, pulled again and bang - sweet. And at the right, or wrong, time - priceless.

(Only thing better is my DAO revolver. Where I get a fresh round and try
that faulty primmer round four rounds latter! The reliability of revolvers is greatly underrated and their obsolescence premature.)

[jocko]

barth. not sure if an emergency situation occurs thatI wantto keep pulling the trigger on a dead round. Normaly if it didn't go off the first time, one can normally equate it to the round and not the gun. Get that damn bad round out of the gun and move on. We don't pound a round to death in a revolver now do we.

For me anyhow that is a way way over used add hype over some competitors gun, not that it is a bad thing but it sure would not be at the top of my criteria in buying a gun.
A shooter should definitely have the tap, rack and bang drill down pat IMO

[Barth]

barth. not sure if an emergency situation occurs thatI wantto keep pulling the trigger on a dead round. Normaly if it didn't go off the first time, one can normally equate it to the round and not the gun. Get that damn bad round out of the gun and move on. We don't pound a round to death in a revolver now do we.

For me anyhow that is a way way over used add hype over some competitors gun, not that it is a bad thing but it sure would not be at the top of my criteria in buying a gun.
A shooter should definitely have the tap, rack and bang drill down pat IMO

I carry a MK40 and know the drill.
The very few times I've had miss fires, a second strike sent the round flying. Much faster than you can do "the drill". It's still very rare, unlikely
and I respect your decision to abandon a second strike. I just don't share it with you.

[jocko]

no argument there, as u stated.

[Rainman48314]

I've read about quality control issues and a fussiness with brand and weight of ammo (with the Solo). Still, it's a brand new gun/design for Kimber and will likely have growing pains. Even the Sig Sauer P238 had them and I'm steering clear of the P290 for a while for the same reason. Sig Sauer and Kimber both make fine guns.
But in these tough economic times everyone seems to rush to market. Just like a first model car, it's usually wise to not rush in and wait for the second release.
IMHO

(The SA only is the deal breaker for me.
I've carried just about every way possible and have settled in
on pocket carry in 90 degree Florida. No way I'm going locked and cocked
with a rocket in my pocket!)
According to the Kimber engineer who designed the Solo, it was three years from concept approval to release at SHOT 2011.

[Rainman48314]

The above reasons are why I LOVE MY PARA ORDNANCES. Double action only, light weight, sweet trigger and a serious caliber! :cool:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0953-1.jpg
Sweet looking gun. I don't see many at the three or four dealers I visit. Is the OD green a factory option?

[jocko]

and u feel 3 years is a long time??? I would bet that is the norm. American cars did at one time take about 7 years from design to sales room, Foregn makers could do it in 5 and under..

I would venture to also guess that kimber is no different than most gun makers. They design the gun then maybe an inhouse made proto and then after some through tresting and mod changes, that they seek the vendors to make most of the gun. Certainlly all of this takes alot of time to get it right, magazaine makers, grip makers. recoil makers. barrel makers, casting molds for lower section, spring makers,

[Rainman48314]

barth. not sure if an emergency situation occurs thatI wantto keep pulling the trigger on a dead round. Normaly if it didn't go off the first time, one can normally equate it to the round and not the gun. Get that damn bad round out of the gun and move on. We don't pound a round to death in a revolver now do we.

For me anyhow that is a way way over used add hype over some competitors gun, not that it is a bad thing but it sure would not be at the top of my criteria in buying a gun.
A shooter should definitely have the tap, rack and bang drill down pat IMOAgreed. Train one way for all guns, tap, rack, assess/ bang.

[jocko]

oh my. We agree on something. I need a drink!!! course I don't need much of anything in my life to chanbge, to say that either.

[Rainman48314]

and u feel 3 years is a long time??? I would bet that is the norm. American cars did at one time take about 7 years from design to sales room, Foregn makers could do it in 5 and under..
This was in response to Barth who seemed to feel these new small guns are RUSHED to market. To me, rushed is under 18 months. Three is probably normal considering what a departure this is from Kimbers past efforts.

Cars are a tougher call. With a global industry, engines available as near commodities etc, SOME models are just three years. I doubt any are seven years anymore.

[Rainman48314]

oh my. We agree on something. I need a drink!!! course I don't need much of anything in my life to chanbge, to say that either.Jocko, I'd be happy to buy the first and last round. What are you having? I'm a Light Beer drinker myself...but never more than two per day.

[jocko]

3 to 5 years. and again if it is a new model then longer... I seriouly doubt if any gun is 18 months, even the lcp which ruger copied from kel tec with so so slight mods would be a push to do in 18 months, and if they did it in 18 months Ruger can also claim that this rush cost them a 50K recall of their lcps due to safety issues from a totally copied gun.

I would think the kahr PM9 with the Mass. complaint safety and loaded round indicator could have been done in this amount of time but 18 months might seem long to some but in the industry it is not and I wold bet this gun was on the drawing board fr a long while while kahr decided if it was cost effective to make such a gun. No doubt kthe cm9 couldhave been done in 18 months or even less, same frame as the pM9, same slide through most of the maching process as the PM9, all other parts interchangeable, a no brainer and that is why IMO we will see the cm40 at the shot show next year..

[O'Dell]

No doubt kthe cm9 couldhave been done in 18 months or even less, same frame as the pM9, same slide through most of the maching process as the PM9, all other parts interchangeable, a no brainer and that is why IMO we will see the cm40 at the shot show next year..[/QUOTE]


Does that mean I can put off the PM40?

[jocko]

now ur trying to pin me down on an assumption, I think u know though, it just makes good sense for kahr to comeout with the cm40. IMO it won't be a cm45 next, but who knows. I just want kahr to stick with what they do better than all others, not go extreme. Many seem to thinbk a double stack should bein kahrs line, maybe so but their gonna get into a bigger frame,slide, etc, all new stuff for kahr. let the double stack boys fight it out, contoil the turff that u already own. My two cents. Hell u know meO'dell, I rattle alot but actually make little noise.

[O'Dell]

now ur trying to pin me down on an assumption, I think u know though, it just makes good sense for kahr to comeout with the cm40. IMO it won't be a cm45 next, but who knows. I just want kahr to stick with what they do better than all others, not go extreme. Many seem to thinbk a double stack should bein kahrs line, maybe so but their gonna get into a bigger frame,slide, etc, all new stuff for kahr. let the double stack boys fight it out, contoil the turff that u already own. My two cents. Hell u know meO'dell, I rattle alot but actually make little noise.

I know, I know. I would actually prefer a CM45, but I'd take a 40. The problem for Kahr that I see is that the CM9 has got to be cutting into the PM9 sales. Do they want to do that with the PM45 and 40 too? I'm not sure I would.

[jocko]

I think kahr would say yes. They had to know going into this that it would cut into the pM sales.Probably the cw series cut into the P series sales. We might be surprised that maybe the PM sales are still holding their own. They also had to take into consideration guns like the lc9 and others that are selling for far less than the PM line of kahrs.

The 40 and 45 will in my opinion appear for certain,which one is first would be just a guess. There are alot of people who will still go with the PM line because they feel they have to have the best and as u have read here, some have asked if the cm series was cheaper made than the PM series, which we know is not really true. Less bells and whistles to me is not "cheaper" in over all quality.

Patience ol man, it will come to those who wait.. Mark ur calendar. ol jocko says come Feb. of 2012 there will be a cm40.

[OldLincoln]

Let's play a game with pricing.... Lets say they increase 9mm sales by 100% and 50% of those came out of the PM9 and 50% from increase of market share. If they have 5% of the market before they end up with 7.5%. If they sell 2,000 units a year of CM9 and loose 1,000 units of PM9, they still gain $650K revenue per year.

All hypothetical but I'd sure like to know what the numbers really are.

[O'Dell]

The numbers may work on the much higher volume 9mm, but maybe not on the 40 and 45. I guess we'll see.

[O'Dell]

[ They also had to take into consideration guns like the lc9 and others that are selling for far less than the PM line of kahrs.



All the new 'small' carry guns from SIG, Kimber, Ruger, etc are 9mm which was handled by the CM9. The PM40 and 45 don't have much competition.

[O'Dell]

That may be changing quickly http://ruger.com/products/sr40c/models.html

http://ruger.com/products/sr40c/images/3476.jpg

Caliber: .40 S&W Grip Frame: Black, High Performance, Glass-Filled Nylon Sights: Adjustable 3-Dot Length: 6.85" Height: 4.61" Width: 1.27" Grooves: 6 Barrel Length: 3.50" Twist: 1:16" RH

The SR9c and SR40c are much larger guns than the LC9. It is not a pocket pistol like the other small 'wonder nines'. It's quite a bit larger even than my CW40 which is certainly not a pocket gun.

[tv_racin_fan]

Agreed. Train one way for all guns, tap, rack, assess/ bang.

I agree one way for all guns. Pull trigger, if you get no bang first try pull it again. I aint never figured out the tap-rack-bang sequence for a revolver...

[Barth]

I agree one way for all guns. Pull trigger, if you get no bang first try pull it again. I aint never figured out the tap-rack-bang sequence for a revolver...

LOL!
Revolvers?
For me it's the (&&(, I'm out of ammo! Begin the pistol whipping sequence.
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/StrontiumDogPistolWhip.jpg

[CJB]

Gotta say... its to be expected that Kimber has some teething pains with the new pistol. That is not unexpected, and its how they make 'em right that matters.

My PM9, bought used, has been 100 percent, totally, completely, utterly problem free for all the time I've owned it. Thanks to its first owner taking such good care of it, and breaking it in properly. Great pocket pistol... just great pistol period. Don't mess with perfection!

[tv_racin_fan]

LOL!
Revolvers?
For me it's the (&&(, I'm out of ammo! Begin the pistol whipping sequence.
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/StrontiumDogPistolWhip.jpg

IT amazes me how many peolple think everyone carrys the same style of firearm.

IF you are out of ammo on the first shot you got some issues to work out...

Hey can you explain to me the tap rack fire sequence for a flintlock? I swear I must be totally stupid....

No.. wait... I got it I think... see on the flintlock it aint a tap rack fire sequence.. no it is the wipe, pick, prime, close, co ck, fire sequence. IF that dont work after two or three tries then you get to go the the pull ram rod, install ball puller, tie to ram rod to tree, pull gun off ram rod and ball, untie ram rod, uninstall ball puller, install cleaning jag, run couple patches down bore, prime pan, close frizzen, flash the pan, wipe pan clean, measure load, pour in barrel, ram patched ball, replace ramrod, prime pan and close frizzen, co ck the umm eerrr co ck, PULL TRIGGER sequence.

Ever notice how the flintlock pistols bad in the day had a big ole knob on the grip? THAT was so you could turn the dern thing around and use it as a war club to defend yourself.

[Bawanna]

IT amazes me how many peolple think everyone carrys the same style of firearm.

IF you are out of ammo on the first shot you got some issues to work out...

Hey can you explain to me the tap rack fire sequence for a flintlock? I swear I must be totally stupid....

No.. wait... I got it I think... see on the flintlock it aint a tap rack fire sequence.. no it is the wipe, pick, prime, close, co ck, fire sequence. IF that dont work after two or three tries then you get to go the the pull ram rod, install ball puller, tie to ram rod to tree, pull gun off ram rod and ball, untie ram rod, uninstall ball puller, install cleaning jag, run couple patches down bore, prime pan, close frizzen, flash the pan, wipe pan clean, measure load, pour in barrel, ram patched ball, replace ramrod, prime pan and close frizzen, co ck the umm eerrr co ck, PULL TRIGGER sequence.

Ever notice how the flintlock pistols bad in the day had a big ole knob on the grip? THAT was so you could turn the dern thing around and use it as a war club to defend yourself.

You've gotta be one of the smartest men alive. I remember one time out in the sticks shooting my muzzle stuffer w/cap not flintlock. I'd shoot and the guys with me would meander down to the target, have a smoke, maybe a cup of coffee all while I was trying to load as fast as I possibly could.
The war club would be a handy tool in any sort of battle.

[Frankhenrylee]

At this point Im just wondering how many PM9's Jocko has?

And to another point. Are we destined to have to live threw the growing pains that are attributed to new guns or anything new for that matter. Why is it if you buy anything these days there's always an offer of an extended warranty or some other crap that they want you to pay for so that you can be protected from product failure. I see extended warranties for guns coming along real soon. Never buy anything the first year or two it's out. The bean counters at these companies are more than willing to have you test out thier products on your dime. I hate it when I see people making excuses for new products like its OK to sell crap.

If it's cheap then you know you shouldn't expect much, but when it's expensive demand it to be what you paid for.