Could Kahr Make a "Rohrbaugh"" 9mm?

[Bill K]

Do you guys think that Kahr could make a 9mm the approximate size of the Rohrbaugh 9mm? Basically turn their P380 into a 9mm or is the PM9 about as small as they can reasonably go? Would you even be interested in a 9mm that small. I do believe I'd be interested if the price were in the same ballpark as the PM9 which would be some $400.00-$500.00 less than the rohrbaugh.

Bill K.

[jocko]

Oh they could but the rohrbaugh is very ammo sensitive, really quality made but new recoil springs are a must every 200 rounjds. They tell you basically what ammo works good in it. It is a hard gunt o shoot alot, due to size and weight, certainly not as aqccurate as the PM9 due to the kahrs actually having sights as rthe rohrbaugh has NUBS. Not knockkng the rohrbaugh, as I had looked at one real serious one time but the small size, wieght and ammo sensitive and recoil spring stuff kinda turned me away from a 1K gun. It is definitely a gun to carry often and shoot seldom and that was not what I wanted either. if u lay a kahr next to a R9, actually u will be sruprised as to how close the PM9 comes, certainly not as small and as light but a lot more friendly gun to shoot. I hav enot read from any Rohrbaugh owners of hitting the 10,000 round mark, not saying the gun maybe can't take that kind of shooting, just saying for the type of ammo they say to use, it is expensive and certainly not a pleasant gun or what one could call a range gun. I sure beat around the ol bush here somewhat. As u can see with the R9, size and weight has nothinbg todo with price. That little gun is expensive as hell but it is quality made but certinly not an issue free gun either. Ine thing I have read numerous times is of the grips screws get the slightest loose the gun will malfunction, as the grip keeps the internals exactly where they should be with no play. A trivial thing toa good gun owner, I realize that.

I don't think the R9 has a slide lock, for sure not an automatic slide lock,. Course it is alson not polymer either. Lets face it IMO the 9mmis not a P-ssy round and these guns when they get that small cause shooter issues that aq big gun even the size of the PM9 would not cause. There is certainly not alot of grip on the R9's..

FOUND THIS ON A GUN SITE:

Rohrbaugh R9
Well, I got a big surprise today. I work at a gun shop and we sell the Rohrbaugh R9 pistols. They're very small and slick pocket pistols and very expensive too. Last week 2 different customers brought back their R9's for repair. One had just bought it the day before and the trigger wasn't working, and the other one had had the gun for a while and had shot it quite a bit and was having the same problem with the trigger. They wanted the guns sent back to the factory for repair, which we were glad to do, but we were surprised as they were the first ones we've had come back.

The factory was closed until this week, so we shipped the guns off on Monday, but apparently the owner of the gun who'd had it for a while also called the factory Monday to talk to them about his problem. He told us that he had mentioned to whoever he spoke to at the factory that he had fired 150 rounds through the gun when it stopped working and was told that the gun shouldn't be fired that much as it was meant to be a carry gun and not a regular shooting gun!

To be honest, we assumed that the guy either misunderstood what he was told or outright made it up. It didn't make any sense that a gun that finely made and expensive wasn't made to be shot a lot. Except that today the head of Rohrbaugh, Karl Rohrbaugh, called us about the guns we had sent and during the course of the discussion he confirmed that the gun was not intended to be shot a lot and that 150 rounds was too much. He said that every few months he shoots a magazine full through his gun, cleans and reloads it, then puts it back in his pocket. Of course, he's going to fix the guns and send them back to us, but that still doesn't explain the crazy limitation on shooting.

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone who has or likes the guns, nor am I saying that it's a bad gun, but I thought this information should be shared since nowhere on the company's website does it say anything about this important restriction. Also, I have to admit that I have not read the gun's manual and don't know if this matter is mentioned there, but even if it is it's very likely that a buyer would not see it until after purchasing the gun. I have to say that I'm very surprised and disappointed by the whole matter and I just wanted to pass on the information to anyone interested.


Specs:

r9 ROHRBAUGH pm9 KAHR

bARREL. 2.9" 3.0"
lENGTH 5.2" 5.4"
WEIGHT 13.5 OUNCES 14 OUNCES
hEIGHT 3.7" 4.0"
CAPACITY 6 ROUNDS 6 ROUNDS

[Popeye]

I really do not think I'd want to shoot a 9mm smaller than a PM9. In my case I do not think I'd be very accurate with it, and a good quick follow up shot for me would be more luck than talent.;)

[jocko]

i think ur dead right popeye. sometimes to small is not so good...
where u been??? lately

[Barth]

http://pistol-training.com/articles/pocket-wonder-rohrbaugh-r9s-stealth

[melissa5]

I want a single stack 9mm Glock! :cheer2:

[Barth]

I want a single stack 9mm Glock! :cheer2:

I've been wondering why Glock only makes one single stack gun (45)?!?
I think a Glock sub-compact single stack 9 would sell like hot cakes.

I'll add to your wish - Make my single stack with the EXO finish!
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGyUrzYqnyWP0iCHfSQBTLXW35q377e orREaCBEZBJm9gJCXJ8

[Bill K]

http://pistol-training.com/articles/pocket-wonder-rohrbaugh-r9s-stealth

Thanks. A very well done and thorough review of the Rohrbaugh. This sentence gets me though... "So, it is without precedence that I embrace one of the most unreliable pistols I’ve owned – my Rohrbaugh R9S Stealth."

[Longitude Zero]

Lord I hope they do not waste one penny of thought on making a copy of that POS. I have fired one and IMHO its only use is to be ground up for useuful items. IMHO Everything Rohrbaugh makes is a POS!!!

[TheTman]

Boberg Arms has finally released its XR9S (S for shorty). Currently they are selling only to those that have been on the waiting list, but once they get through that they'll start to become more available. This is a 9mm (+P) that is about the same size as the P380, and a hair bigger than a Beretta .32 Tomcat, making it very pocketable, yet has a 3.3 inch barrel. It uses an unconvential feeding system which pulls rounds from the back of the magazine with "tongs" then inserts it into the barrel. Boberg says this has been used in machine guns sucessfully for decades, but this is I believe the first attempt to use it in a pistol. It's a bit pricey, around $950, and unobtainable at the moment, due to him filling the orders of people on the waiting list, and there are quite a few on the list. It's unusual looking to say the least, but has some pretty good specs with that 3.3 inch barrel. The magazine sits under the barrel, instead of behind it, allowing for the longer barrel in such a compact package. I'm currently on the waiting list, but not very close to the top, so will probably be awhile before I am contacted about ordering one. More info can be found at bobergarms.com. There they have overlays of the XR9S compared to many other popular pistols, including the P380 and PM9. Here is a picture of it.
This is a brand new startup venture by Arne Boberg, and it's taken awhile to get everything together, but they are finally shipping the finished product.
I haven't checked the boards recently to see if anyone has had problems with it.
Boberg has spent qute a bit of time testing this out, and hopefully has all the bugs worked out. He says it's not too bad to shoot. He has various videos of it in action on his website, and I think on Youtube. I'm betting this will be available before Kahr makes a 9mm the size of the P380, and will probably be more fun to shoot.
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/BobergXR9S.jpg

[Barth]

???

http://www.bobergarms.com/notes/XR9_Shorty

Boberg XR9-S (Shorty)
Caliber: 9mm / 9mm+P
Length: 5.1”
Height: 4.2”
Width: 0.95”
Weight: 17.5 oz with magazine, unloaded
Barrel Length: 3.35”
Capacity: 7+1
Action: Rotating-Barrel Locked-Breech
Sights: Low Profile, Dovetail Windage
Sight Radius: 4.4”
Trigger Pull: 5.5 lb DAO
Safeties: 2 (DAO & Passive Firing Pin)

PM9
Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 6+1, 7+1 (magazine with grip extension)
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block; no magazine disconnect
Barrel: 3.0", polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length O/A: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces, Magazine 1.9 ounces

[earle8888]

FYI, I was at the gun store yesterday and did a little comparison. The LCP, the something bodyguard, generally all the small 380's in the case. laid them next to PM40. Not much differences except in weight when loaded. The PM's seem to have the market cornered on very small auto's.

[kahrseye]

http://pistol-training.com/articles/pocket-wonder-rohrbaugh-r9s-stealth

How do you say "I've been bought". Read the above article and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. The gun is so unreliable and ammo sensitive why would you trust it in a life threatening situation. Ok it's well made and small. So keep it as a paperweight. My PM9 is with me most everyday in my pocket. (some days I have to show the others some love too). This guys opinion has been somehow compromised. I read the entire article and cannot believe he carries it and would put his life on the line with that thing. :32:

[JFootin]

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/BobergXR9-S0001.jpg
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/BobergXR9InnerWorkings.jpg)
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/BobergXR9InnerWorkings.jpg

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/BobergXR9InAction.jpg

[teammazza]

You can only make a 9mm so small without sacrificing on other aspects(accuracy, power) the PM9 or Keltec PF9 would be the smallest I would ever go. Right now I carry a CW9 and love it. I can easily conceal it with just a T-shirt. I can get all 3 fingers on it, has a 3.5 in. barrel, and only starts at 15.8 oz. Best CCW gun IMHO.

[melissa5]

I was at the gun shop today and saw something interesting. It was a Diamondback DB9. It was very small and under $400. I wonder how the trigger is.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/Diamondback%20DB9-01.jpg

[Barth]

I was at the gun shop today and saw something interesting. It was a Diamondback DB9. It was very small and under $400. I wonder how the trigger is.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/Diamondback%20DB9-01.jpg

My friend has one.
Jammed, stove piped, FTF, light primer strike on every mag!
Sent it back to the factory and they sent him a different new replacement gun.
He says this one works perfect and is very accurate for such a small gun.
He loves it and carries it often.

I shot the first one through two mags and gave it back (jamming).
Plus there's no slide lock so removing jammed bullets is a (*&(!.
I thought the gun was almost too small though...

Just me...

(oh the trigger seemed fine as I remember)

UPDATE: I made a boo boo - his is the 380 version

[TucsonMTB]

FYI, I was at the gun store yesterday and did a little comparison. The LCP, the something bodyguard, generally all the small 380's in the case. laid them next to PM40. Not much differences except in weight when loaded. The PM's seem to have the market cornered on very small auto's.
+1 Especially if for those of us who prefer "fo-tay". ;)

[Barth]

+1 Especially if for those of us who prefer "fo-tay". ;)

Ok +2 (MK40 Elite)

I'ts a heavy little chunk of Stainless. But the concealment size
is hard to beat. I matched it up to P238/P290 and others finding
it most comparable. Super flat and with 40 cal power it feels like a baby
1911 in my pocket (I'm very happy and comfortable carrying it)

[JFootin]

You can only make a 9mm so small without sacrificing on other aspects(accuracy, power) the PM9 or Keltec PF9 would be the smallest I would ever go. Right now I carry a CW9 and love it. I can easily conceal it with just a T-shirt. I can get all 3 fingers on it, has a 3.5 in. barrel, and only starts at 15.8 oz. Best CCW gun IMHO.

Did you look at the Boberg? Although it is very short and thin, it has a 3.35" barrel and the grip is long enough for a stable grip. The only sacrifice with the shortness is the sight span. The original design has a longer barrel (about 4.5") and slide. It is featured in the Xray pictures above, and here is a photo:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/BobergXR9RS2-1.jpg

I can't find the specs on the Boberg website. They will not consider making it until later. But it has the barrel length of a full size gun, yet it is about as long as a PM9.

I think this design concept is a revolutionary step in handguns. Maybe Boberg will make a deal with a major manufacturer for use of the patented design, and make royalties on every pistol. It might take a few years, especially with these guns going for a grand a piece.

[yqtszhj]

I was at the gun shop today and saw something interesting. It was a Diamondback DB9. It was very small and under $400. I wonder how the trigger is.

http://www.discountgunsales.com/images/P/Diamondback%20DB9-01.jpg


Seems like I heard there was a lawsuit out against Diamondback due to their design. Patent infringment I think. May have been another company.

[yqtszhj]

Boberg Arms has finally released its XR9S (S for shorty).
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/BobergXR9S.jpg


It just dawned on me what this looks like. The phaser that Capt. Kirk used on Star Trek in the 70's. :laser:

I'm not knocking it by any means. Innovative design. I hope it works out really well. Still reminds me of Star Trek though.

[JFootin]

Boberg XR9 Series Future Pistol Sizes


XR9-L (Long): Length: 5.9"; Height: 4.2"; Barrel: 4.20"
XR9-M (Mid-Size): Length: 5.5"; Height: 4.2"; Barrel, 3.75"
XR9-μ (Micro): Length: 5.1"; Height: 3.9"; Barrel: 3.35"
XR9-XL (Extra Long): Length: 6.4"; Height: 4.2"; Barrel: 4.65"

[JFootin]

Seems like I heard there was a lawsuit out against Diamondback due to their design. Patent infringment I think. May have been another company.

It is Glock that is suing them.

[Longitude Zero]

The Diamondback is being sued by KAHR for multiple patent and trademark infringements. A friend had one and it is a POS. Jamm-a-matic. Then the lower end of the feed ramp started chipping. The gun is a poorly designed, poorly tested death trap. Avoid like the plague.

It looks nice but for that sky high price for that sized gun they better have accuracy guarantees. There is no way I wold drop that kind of money on that kind of gun. Stick with KAHR and do not throw your money down a rat hole with that gun and get ammo to practice with. But to each their own.

His logic on explaining the difference in penetration is hogwash and does not pass the smell test. I guess apples look like orange to him.

[JFootin]

My bad.

[paul34]

Small pistols are harder to hit with, and so generally require more practice. For Rohrbaugh to suggest owners shoot only a magazine's worth of ammo every few months is quite ludicrous, IMO. I want a small pistol, but I also want to hit what I'm shooting at - I don't want to end up hitting everything else except the BG.


The Diamondback is being sued by KAHR for multiple patent and trademark infringements..

Are you sure? I thought Diamondback released a statement a few weeks after that piece of news came out that Kahr had never filed any lawsuits. It seemed to be an unsubstantiated rumor.

[TheTman]

I don't know about lawsuits, but I don't think I would buy a Diamond Back. Has too much bad press.
Sounds like they don't want you to run a lot of ammo thru the Rourbagh. Might not hold up well to a lot of shooting.

[TucsonMTB]

http://www.kahr.com/kahr-news.asp


Kahr Arms Pursues Patent Infringement Lawsuit

April, 2011
PEARL RIVER, NY – Kahr Arms, the award-winning manufacturer of compact pistols based in Worcester, Mass, is currently engaged in a patent infringement lawsuit against Diamondback Firearms, LLC, the maker of compact .380 ACP and 9mm pistols based in Cocoa, Florida.
Seven U.S. patents cover Kahr’s unique locking, firing and extraction systems. The incomparable cocking cam trigger system employs a patented cam to both unlock the passive safety and complete cocking and releasing of the firing pin. The system provides a “safe cam action” and unbelievably smooth double action only trigger stroke, fast to fire in critical defensive situations.
These innovations found only in the Kahr pistol give the Kahr shooter an advantage in self-defense, home protection and duty or off duty use. The Kahr design is original, creating the smallest package possible in four defensive calibers – 9mm, .40S&W, .45 ACP and the .380 ACP. Kahr has been producing compact pistols in Worcester since the early 1990s, and in the process has carved out a market segment for concealed pistol carry by properly licensed civilians and law enforcement personnel. In recent years, this market segment has attracted the attention of a number of large and small companies vying to gain market share as the larger pistol market has slowed down.
Kahr has been a leader and innovator in this market segment with over 40 different pistol configurations consisting of steel and polymer frames, four calibers and five barrel lengths. Kahr will continue to take necessary steps to protect their patented innovations.

[jocko]

diamond back and keltecarewithin spittindistanceof eachother.Iheard alongtimeago some key people walked out of kel tec and a short time later diamondback was born. If it is cocking cam in the lawsuit, I would think DB would have a hard time winning that lawsuit..

[Popeye]

i think ur dead right popeye. sometimes to small is not so good...
where u been??? lately

Jocko
I've been around, just lurking for a bit. Now that the warmer weather is with us I've been busy around the house trying to get some things done. Been doing alot of riding on the Harley also. Just last weekend I put on 900 miles. We did a little road trip down the Skyline drive and jumped off and went to Bedford Va. to see the D-Day Museum. Nice trip but 900 miles for this old dog in just a little over two days is a bit much.

As far as small pistols. Guess it all depends on who's shooting it. When I got my PM9 it was bought by a guy with loads of money,Who just bought it, put a few rounds through it decided it wasn't what he thought it was an bought another gun. Maybe the PM9 was to small for him to shoot well? In I walk and saw it in the case, and thought it was new,but didn't unstand the price. Then found out it was used at a price I could live with and snapped it up. Heck the paper work inside the case wasn't even filled out. If I had to make a quess less than 50 rounds where put through it. I'm not usually that lucky but in this case the gun angels where shining down on me. As I mentioned a smaller gun than the PM9 in a 9mm would be worthless to me, it would only be smaller. I also have a P3at and that gun has been a nice little reliable pocket piece but is what it is, I'd be lieing if I said I enjoy shooting it or I think it's a good gun for a follow up shot. It has it's place when I need to deep conceal carry. I do carry all my pistols at one time or another but my favorite carry piece is and always will be the PM9. The caliber,overall size and ergo's just work the best for this old dog..

[jocko]

wife ad I are head to Morgan town, W. Va to moutainfestkthe end of this month for 4 days. Then in Sept, we are headed back to Milwaukee with a group to go through the HD Museum. If u have not been there, u should before your ol bones take a set!!

take care ol timer.

[Popeye]

Sounds like a nice trip. If you've never been there try to visit the Harley factory in York Pa. It's pretty cool to see how there put together. Have a safe and pleasant trip.

[jocko]

Popeye. Been through it with my local dealer, we kninda got even a little better tour as we were able to go to the CVO line.

[Popeye]

Jocko did the same thing with the local dealer and HOG group.

[jocko]

wedid the samething, our hog group all went, I think we had about 40 all total, spent a couple of days ri9ding around Yourk and Hershey etc and Gettsyburg, Super nice time...

About a year beforer Harley ever came out with their "citco" synthteic, I was touring the Motor plant with my dealer and he andI and the plant manager waled and talekd through the entire motor plant. After wards we were sittigin his office and I said when is Harley going to getoff their ass and get a synthectic Oil. His answer was as soon as we can get Mobil to bottle their Mobil one V-Twin for us without their name on it. I being a Mobil dealer(family) for68 years told him that ain't gonna happen, He agreed, His second choice was amsoil which makes a good synthetic (being Mobil basically sells the stock synthetic but not the syn technology), anyway, he said the same thing ,neither Mobil or Amsol would bottle that for Harley unless somewhere on that bottle was there name. Hecne the birth of CITCO (Hughgo Crrez venezula owned synthetic.

I have run Mobil V-Twinsince its inception and before Mobil V-twin their 15-50 racing Mobil One.

[TheTman]

Jfootin, don't get too excited about those Boberg's. He wanted to start selling them a long time ago, way over a year, but things keep holding him back. He only has the shorty model in production yet, and I suspect it will be quite sometime before we see other versions of it. Plus there are quite a few orders to fill from the waiting list before the public gets a chance at them.
With that weird feeding system, I'd like to see how it holds up before plunking down close to a grand for one. I guess the thing that makes it a little more shootable, is it's all metal construction giving it a bit more heft than a P380. Me being way down the line on the order list, I hope to see some independent reviews and such before they get to my name. With my marriage dissolving, and my wife getting most of my money, probably won't be able to get one anyway.

[JFootin]

Yeah. I'm not planning on adding one to my arsenal any time soon, and I'm not on the waiting list. I am just really intrigued with the design. My engineer's mind says yes to this concept! :nerd:

[Popeye]

Don't want to high jack this thread but I never ran that SYN 3 crap in my Road King. M1 15/50 M1 Vtwin 20/50 and Royal Purple 20/50. No problems with 58 K on the bike.

[TucsonMTB]

Jfootin, don't get too excited about those Boberg's . . . . quite a few orders to fill from the waiting list before the public gets a chance at them . . . With that weird feeding system, I'd like to see how it holds up before plunking down close to a grand for one.
Amen, brother! I was really excited when I saw the first shooting videos. But, now that I carry a PM40, not so much. That's the problem with a new design. Many only enjoy a marketing advantage for a short time.


I guess the thing that makes it a little more shootable, is it's all metal construction giving it a bit more heft . . . probably won't be able to get one anyway.
Condolences on the personal front! Here's hoping that losing this pistol is the biggest disappointment of your experience.

In the meantime, focus on the positive as much as possible. ;)

[jocko]

hell of alot of mooving parts in that boberg. actualy IMO to many for me to cuddle up to...

[TucsonMTB]

hell of alot of mooving parts in that boberg. actualy IMO to many for me to cuddle up to...
Spoken like a man who only uses one crank pin for both connecting rods on his V-Twins. Simplicity is nice when you can find it! :)

http://xorl.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/v-twin_animation.gif?w=397&h=443

[TheTman]

Thanks for the kind words TusconMTB. If I get out of this with my Harley, I'll be happy.
As for the Boberg Pistol, I really hope it is sucessful after all the hard work he has put into it. I was just reading that he started in April 2009, and has been putting in some very long weeks over the last couple of years, but finally after 10 major revisions to his design, he feels the 10th generation is ready for the public and has begun to ship them. I don't know if I'd have the guts to enter a gun making business at this time, and the libtards were in full control when he started. He's dealt with a lot of issues with this pistol, premature frame cracks and other things too numerous to mention.
I'd like to see Hickock45 put one thru the paces, as well as the guy at Gunblast and see what they think of it. I think his answer to that was when he gets a surplus built up he'll release some for reviews. Right now he's trying to fill the backlog of orders.
Now that they are shipping, I've been keeping a lookout for range reports, breakdowns, and other info on it and haven't come across much. I think it's going to compete more against the Rourbaughs than the PM9 due to it's $950 price. I'm skeptical that a half inch shorter gun with .35" more barrel is worth $300 more than the PM9. Perhaps it will come down in the future when he gets caught up and has some to distribute to gun shops. That's just a little too much for my budget right now, especially when I have no info to go on as far as reliability, longevity, scheduled part replacement (springs and stuff). I wish he'd put the owners manual online, if he has I can't find it.
Anyway, I wish him the best of luck and hope that people enjoy his products.

[jocko]

for somje reason I thought the boberg desing wasaround a fewyears before 09 even, but I guess I was wrong. Takes alot of bucks to make start up gun. advertisng itself will eat oneup, let alone a comlete new gun, and add to that OPMNLY ONE gun in ur company and at $900 there is a given % that will never buy because of the cost. He is going tohave a tuff road ahead IMO, whether the gun is perfect or not. Were also talking about a company that if things go south fast, "bankruptcy is right around the corner for most stqart up companies.
I am playing the devfils advoct here, so my comments hopefuly are not negative becuase I am a negative nanny, but I am a realist.

I recall a few years back with Excelsion Henderson tried torevise their famous name with a new Elcelsion motoryt, made in Minneapolis, They borroed millions from thestate tostart up the business went on the market with anIPO. Ol Jocko bought into the IPO at $8 a share, and lost it all. THEY FOLDED quicker than jack sh-t

For me I will sit back and watch this Boberg thing unfold, check back with me 2 years after the gun is in production.

he started the first proto boberg in 2003

[TheTman]

Good thoughts Jocko. I took a small business course a few years ago and something like 80% of startups fold within a year.
I don't know who is backing him, but so far he isn't selling shares. I'm sure he must have quite a bit invested with all the tooling needed to make that complicated thing.
He has a long road still ahead of him, particularly if there are issues with the pistol. I believe he's taken great pains to get most of the bugs worked out, but we all know things are liable to pop-up once he begins an assembly line process. I just wish him best of luck. I kind of look at him as telling Obama and the libtards to kiss his backside, and also he's an underdog and I always root for them.

[jocko]

prototypes always work as they arehand made and hand fitte. when u startcranckingthem out of machines and he will no doubt have to vendor out alot of that stuff to. that is when things happen.He can't take it public, not even a though for that. Maybe some venture capitalist could be behind him. Many greatideas never madeit to productiohn due to bucks needed, I would hate to think just what advertisng would cost to run a full pagfe in the NRA or some of these other gun rags.

So now what, u have to discount very well to get dealers to buy the gun, or if ur going to go to distributors only then indeed even a deeper discount. warranty--humm (one year doesn't do uch for me) does anyone remember the grendall the 380 clip loading semi that went bankrupt but is now in business making kel tecs(kelgren) but no parts or warranty for grendall owners. His idea was innoivative to say the least with a stripper clip top loading 380 semi. Gun Gave alot of issues but he never stayed in business long enough either. Just to patent the boberg can run into thousands of dollars depending on the amount of patents u apply for.

If u look at his videos and slow motion action this fella is very innovative to say the least. My hat is off to him, as certainly this has been a labor of love...

[Longitude Zero]

Please DO NOT make the ignorant mistake of trying to convicne anyone of the supertiority of the POS v-Twin. For those intelligent enough to understand the truth V-Twins spend more time being repared than being ridden. Anyone who would compare a V-Twin to a firearm is too stupid to own either. Thats the undenialble facts.

[jocko]

wow looks like someone pooped on ur doorsteps!!!! and u slipped in it!!

[Popeye]

Yea those V-twins suck like the 1911's they've only been around for a 100 years.

For those intelligent enough to understand the truth V-Twins spend more time being repared than being ridden. This statement tells me everything I need to know on just how much you know about V-Twins. Which isn't much.

[harrydog]

I owned a Rohrbaugh for well over a year, maybe two years. Everything you say, I found to be true. It's a very well made gun but it does indeed have much sharper recoil than the PM9. And it's not rated for +P ammo.
Mine was not 100% reliable with any JHP ammo that I tried, even after 3 trips back to the factory. It would malfunction just often enough that I could never trust it enough to carry it. I ended up getting rid of it a couple of years ago. I really wanted to like it though.
That being said, there are a lot of people who are completely happy with their R9's
In my opinion, the PM9 strikes the perfect balance between being small enough to conceal easily and being big enough to be easily shootable and reliable.



Oh they could but the rohrbaugh is very ammo sensitive, really quality made but new recoil springs are a must every 200 rounjds. They tell you basically what ammo works good in it. It is a hard gunt o shoot alot, due to size and weight, certainly not as aqccurate as the PM9 due to the kahrs actually having sights as rthe rohrbaugh has NUBS. Not knockkng the rohrbaugh, as I had looked at one real serious one time but the small size, wieght and ammo sensitive and recoil spring stuff kinda turned me away from a 1K gun. It is definitely a gun to carry often and shoot seldom and that was not what I wanted either. if u lay a kahr next to a R9, actually u will be sruprised as to how close the PM9 comes, certainly not as small and as light but a lot more friendly gun to shoot. I hav enot read from any Rohrbaugh owners of hitting the 10,000 round mark, not saying the gun maybe can't take that kind of shooting, just saying for the type of ammo they say to use, it is expensive and certainly not a pleasant gun or what one could call a range gun. I sure beat around the ol bush here somewhat. As u can see with the R9, size and weight has nothinbg todo with price. That little gun is expensive as hell but it is quality made but certinly not an issue free gun either. Ine thing I have read numerous times is of the grips screws get the slightest loose the gun will malfunction, as the grip keeps the internals exactly where they should be with no play. A trivial thing toa good gun owner, I realize that.

I don't think the R9 has a slide lock, for sure not an automatic slide lock,. Course it is alson not polymer either. Lets face it IMO the 9mmis not a P-ssy round and these guns when they get that small cause shooter issues that aq big gun even the size of the PM9 would not cause. There is certainly not alot of grip on the R9's..

FOUND THIS ON A GUN SITE:

Rohrbaugh R9
Well, I got a big surprise today. I work at a gun shop and we sell the Rohrbaugh R9 pistols. They're very small and slick pocket pistols and very expensive too. Last week 2 different customers brought back their R9's for repair. One had just bought it the day before and the trigger wasn't working, and the other one had had the gun for a while and had shot it quite a bit and was having the same problem with the trigger. They wanted the guns sent back to the factory for repair, which we were glad to do, but we were surprised as they were the first ones we've had come back.

The factory was closed until this week, so we shipped the guns off on Monday, but apparently the owner of the gun who'd had it for a while also called the factory Monday to talk to them about his problem. He told us that he had mentioned to whoever he spoke to at the factory that he had fired 150 rounds through the gun when it stopped working and was told that the gun shouldn't be fired that much as it was meant to be a carry gun and not a regular shooting gun!

To be honest, we assumed that the guy either misunderstood what he was told or outright made it up. It didn't make any sense that a gun that finely made and expensive wasn't made to be shot a lot. Except that today the head of Rohrbaugh, Karl Rohrbaugh, called us about the guns we had sent and during the course of the discussion he confirmed that the gun was not intended to be shot a lot and that 150 rounds was too much. He said that every few months he shoots a magazine full through his gun, cleans and reloads it, then puts it back in his pocket. Of course, he's going to fix the guns and send them back to us, but that still doesn't explain the crazy limitation on shooting.

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone who has or likes the guns, nor am I saying that it's a bad gun, but I thought this information should be shared since nowhere on the company's website does it say anything about this important restriction. Also, I have to admit that I have not read the gun's manual and don't know if this matter is mentioned there, but even if it is it's very likely that a buyer would not see it until after purchasing the gun. I have to say that I'm very surprised and disappointed by the whole matter and I just wanted to pass on the information to anyone interested.


Specs:

r9 ROHRBAUGH pm9 KAHR

bARREL. 2.9" 3.0"
lENGTH 5.2" 5.4"
WEIGHT 13.5 OUNCES 14 OUNCES
hEIGHT 3.7" 4.0"
CAPACITY 6 ROUNDS 6 ROUNDS

[PattayaPistol]

Please DO NOT make the ignorant mistake of trying to convicne anyone of the supertiority of the POS v-Twin. For those intelligent enough to understand the truth V-Twins spend more time being repared than being ridden. Anyone who would compare a V-Twin to a firearm is too stupid to own either. Thats the undenialble facts.

Perhaps you should follow the instructions of your signature. I would possibly take your post a little more seriously if you first learned to spell, before calling others stupid.