For "Must Declare" States [Archive]

OldLincoln

07-21-2011, 12:05 PM

If you are in a must declare state (live or visit) and carrying, you must announce that fact immediately upon approached by the LEO. That means when he/she first approaches the car even if not directly talking to you. This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc) is a very poor example of a LEO's behavior where he looses it over a delay in notification. Of course it's obvious he lost it sometime before he even pulled to a stop, but he's probably had a sit down by now.

Caution: very course language in the video (but nobody gets shot).

TheTman

07-21-2011, 01:05 PM

Wow, I'm happy to say all the LEO's I've been involved with have shown proffesionalism and courtesy. Even when they thought I was stealing some property. (I was filling up water jugs at a farm store with products kept outside at night)
I always sit with hands on the wheel, or in nice weather put my left hand on the door sill where they can see it plainly. When they ask for my DL, I tell em It's in my wallet, and also say I have a CC permit, and give em that along with my DL. Once the cops see I have a CC permit they tend to relax a little bit it seems. Like they know I'm one of the good guys. Of course they ask me to keep my hands away from where the gun is stored. (usually in the middle console while I'm driving).
When they ask for my registration and proof of insurance I announce that I need to get it out of my glove box, and do so very slowly while they observe.
That there cop acts like he thinks only cops should be allowed to carry. He's living in the wrong time, would have been perfect for Germany in 1939-45. I can't believe he said he should have pulled his Glock and executed they guy at the sight of the bulge in his shirt. What a di ck.
I do think I would have started hollering out the window I had a CC permit even though they hadn't approached me.

jocko

07-21-2011, 01:15 PM

well the audio and video should end this cops career. A total as-hole, completely off base in everything he did. A jury would fire him in a heart beat, let alone any Pollice Merti bpsrd.

Reminds me to detour around Ohio to, fokk those guys. When he threatened that kid with 10 rounds out ofhis G40 that in itself should end his career. I noticed his buddy cop was very quite through the whoe thing to. HE KNOWS.

Bill K

07-21-2011, 02:09 PM

Just spent the last 40+ minutes "dealing" with what I saw....

Frankly, I was infuriated! After settling down and researching and reviewing the incident I contacted some national news networks requesting that they investigate, report on and follow the story.

[Just so you know I'm anything but anti-police. At one time 6 members of my family were active police officers (5 NYPD & one Port Authority Police NY/NJ). My two Uncles have long since died, my two brothers, my cousin and her husband are all retired. I have nothing but praise for the New Haven PD (uniformed, Detectives, investigators and property clerks) on how they handled the shooting incident in which I was involved in April of last year.]

Bill K.

jocko

07-21-2011, 02:20 PM

good for u, nice job. I am certinaly pro cop but this as-hole really scared me..

Rainman48314

07-21-2011, 02:48 PM

Outrageous behavior! 'Roid rage, perhaps?

Carreer should end, quickly. I have no respect for the partner who remained mostly quiet.

Anyone have follow up? Is his Union defending him? Is he still on the payroll?

kahrseye

07-21-2011, 02:52 PM

A non criminal citizen should not fear police carrying weapons and police should not fear law abiding citizens. This officers actions show a deep paranoia. He immediately thought without provocation that there was criminal behavior or acts occurring. I'm not sure why these people were approached in the first place. If you listen to his words he was calling everyone a liar because they didn't say what he thought they should be saying. I really hope this guy is not working as a police officer....he's not doing the profession any favors.

Scimmia

07-21-2011, 03:03 PM

Anyone have follow up? Is his Union defending him? Is he still on the payroll?

He's still on the payroll, on paid leave while the incident is being investigated by internal affairs.

Bill K

07-21-2011, 03:08 PM

Could each and every arrest this particular Police Officer has made now be in question?

Rainman48314

07-21-2011, 03:17 PM

He's still on the payroll, on paid leave while the incident is being investigated by internal affairs.
Heard anything about a 'deal' the City made with the driver?

Dietrich

07-21-2011, 03:19 PM

Scimmia

07-21-2011, 03:39 PM

Heard anything about a 'deal' the City made with the driver?

I've been watching this story on a number of forums, haven't seen anything about a deal yet other than the prosecuter offering to drop the charges if he promised not to sue. :rolleyes: Obviously that one was rejected.

Bill K

07-21-2011, 03:51 PM

Guess incident happened in June but dash cam video went viral yesterday...

“I think it’s important for citizens to understand that the behavior demonstrated on the video is wholly unacceptable, and it violates many of our rules, our regulations and standards we demand of our officers,” Chief Dean McKimm said Thursday.

The officer on the video, Daniel Harless, was placed on administrative leave in June and has been on sick leave since Monday, McKimm said.

The results of the investigation will be presented at a disciplinary hearing, the chief said.

“The city administration, in conjunction with the police department, recognizes the seriousness of this matter,” McKimm said.

Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen’s Association, has watched the video.

Adams said that officers deal with emotional and dangerous situations on the job. But when officers respond to calls involving guns “it’s an emotional situation. I’m not condoning ... anything that might have happened in the video.”

“Obviously we have a lot of hard-working police officers on this department who do a lot of good work,” he said. “Obviously, whatever transpired on that video is an isolated incident. It happened, and it’s being handled properly right now, and the chief is doing what he feels is necessary.”

Police officers, who have been with the department for several years, also are making the transition to the concealed weapon law, Adams said.

When Adams was first with the department 19 years ago, “you came across somebody with a gun, it was 99 percent of the people were bad guys (who) should not have been carrying guns.”

The driver in the video is charged and contesting a misdemeanor carrying concealed weapon charge and a slow or stopped vehicle citation.

Scimmia

07-21-2011, 04:26 PM

I noticed nobody's posted the link to contribute to the driver's legal defense yet.

http://secure.ohioccw.org/store/p/114-Canton-PD-Incident-Legal-Defense-Fund.aspx

Bill K

07-21-2011, 04:53 PM

There are some posters defending the Police Officers conduct. One argument being that given the time, neighborhood and characters involved the driver must have been up to no good. That we can't appreciate all that an officer must contend with under such circumstances.

yqtszhj

07-21-2011, 05:00 PM

I sensed an inner struggle in that officer.He may very well be the type who goes home after his shift and relaxes by dressing in a nice lace teddy.Hopefully he`ll have plenty of time to primp in front of the mirror after he`s fired.

I knew you would come up with something good. I hope the driver got him a good lawyer. Probably couldn't afford it since he was laid off.

Barth

07-21-2011, 05:01 PM

yqtszhj

07-21-2011, 05:02 PM

That we can't appreciate all that an officer must contend with under such circumstances.

Agreed. Still unprofessional though.

MERCTECH

07-21-2011, 06:07 PM

I live in the great state of Florida - and don't think I must declare without being asked...

That said, If I'm asked to produce ID by an officer, I give my Drivers License and CCP with explanation I'm legally armed.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

Upon demand meaning if he asks you if your armed. If your asked to produce Id that means just Id not your license to carry. In Florida your drivers license or car registration has no link to your license to carry. If no reason for him to ask if armed then there is no reason for you to disclose your firearm. If Im stopped for any reason Im not telling the officer anything about my firearm, unless he asks. Just for the reason of getting the wrong cop on the wrong day scenario.

jeepster09

07-21-2011, 06:20 PM

Agreed. Still unprofessional though.

As a former officer myself, I worked with an idiot like him once who referred to everyone as "slimeballs". This officer with out a doubt needs to be fired and find a new line of work away from people.

Barth

07-21-2011, 06:21 PM

Upon demand meaning if he asks you if your armed. If your asked to produce Id that means just Id not your license to carry. In Florida your drivers license or car registration has no link to your license to carry. If no reason for him to ask if armed then there is no reason for you to disclose your firearm. If Im stopped for any reason Im not telling the officer anything about my firearm, unless he asks. Just for the reason of getting the wrong cop on the wrong day scenario.

I know what it means - LOL.
Why take a chance on the situation suddenly going bad?
Plus they will find out when they run your driver license anyway.

It's just a choice I make.

MERCTECH

07-21-2011, 06:23 PM

Your drivers license will not tell them your have a concealed carry license.

JFootin

07-21-2011, 06:27 PM

I knew you would come up with something good. I hope the driver got him a good lawyer. Probably couldn't afford it since he was laid off.

Oh, I think someone will gladly take that case on contingency.

BuckeyeBlast

07-21-2011, 06:27 PM

Barth

07-21-2011, 06:32 PM

Your drivers license will not tell them your have a concealed carry license.

I could be wrong about that.
Always thought a cop could run a check on the registered owner of a car and get the drivers record. And also check for concealed carry as an additional check. I'm not a cop. But it seems like I remember police seeming to know I had
a permit before I told them. Maybe a Florida officer can chime in?

Either way, just making sure a situation doesn't accidentally turn lethal by
stating I'm legally armed up front just seems like a wise decision.
Enough people have been accidentally killed without even having a gun!

(plus I though in the video it was stated that the dispatcher failed to
indicate the person had a permit initially?!?)

MikeyKahr

07-21-2011, 06:39 PM

Welcome to concealed carry life in Ohio!! While this may be surprising to most of you, those of us who live in this wonderful state are not surprised by this officer's attitude. While true that 98% of officers would not act like this and instead are calm, upstanding and gracious, one does run into these types (i.e. idiots) on rare occasion. Especially in the inner cities (Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Toledo, Columbus, Cincinnati, Youngstown, etc.). Many within those city's governments and police departments still struggle with law-abiding citizens being afforded 2A rights in their city limits and precincts in the state of Ohio. Thank goodness for dashcams to show these instances. It will be hard to put this under the rug. My hope is this video becomes part of the training (and re-training) of each officer in the state of Ohio. Buckeye Firearms also has additional information on this incident if anyone is interested:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7904

P.S. I could see Cleveland throwing out the red carpet and offering this officer a job after he gets removed off of the Canton department.

MikeyKahr

07-21-2011, 06:42 PM

Your drivers license will not tell them your have a concealed carry license.

In Ohio, when an officer runs your license plate and/or driver's license the fact of if you hold a CHL will come up, MERCTECH. State law here.

MikeyKahr

07-21-2011, 06:44 PM

"Sir, for my safety I need to inform you that I have a CHL".

I hope you don't mind BB, but I'm stealing your line. Really like those first three words, hopefully that would help put the officer's mind more at ease. Maybe I should make it "Sir (or Ma'am), for your safety and for mine,..."

BuckeyeBlast

07-21-2011, 06:45 PM

Pulled by License Plate number I believe, and probably DL# as well.

In FL it does not b/c the CCW permits are issued by the FL Dept of Agriculture.

Barth

07-21-2011, 06:50 PM

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc&feature=player_detailpage#t=659s

Here's the excerpt from the video -

"Despite runnig the license plate earlier the dispatcher can now be heard advising that the registered owner is licensed to carry a concealed handgun in Ohio.

It's not clear why this wasn't discovered earlier"

Barth

07-21-2011, 07:00 PM

Pulled by License Plate number I believe, and probably DL# as well.

In FL it does not b/c the CCW permits are issued by the FL Dept of Agriculture.

I know it's FL Dept of Agriculture.
Sill think they may have a means of cross checking from your DMV drivers licence. They can check the CCW by number. Why not search my name or cross ref by DL? That's a web enabled laptop the joker's looking at.

BuckeyeBlast

07-21-2011, 07:18 PM

I know it's FL Dept of Agriculture.
Sill think they may have a means of cross checking from your DMV drivers licence. They can check the CCW by number. Why not search my name or cross ref by DL? That's a web enabled laptop the joker's looking at.

Yup, but it's not a technology problem, it's a government problem... at least it was when I lived there.

MERCTECH

07-21-2011, 07:19 PM

In Ohio, when an officer runs your license plate and/or driver's license the fact of if you hold a CHL will come up, MERCTECH. State law here.

Yes My bad I was responding to the earlier post about Florida, not Ohio.

Barth

07-21-2011, 07:21 PM

Yup, but it's not a technology problem, it's a government problem... at least it was when I lived there.

Ah the wonderful world of government - LOL!

yqtszhj

07-21-2011, 07:33 PM

As a former officer myself, I worked with an idiot like him once who referred to everyone as "slimeballs". This officer with out a doubt needs to be fired and find a new line of work away from people.

Yeah. Unfortunately there are just people like that. In all lines of work too. I have worked with some like that.

While we're on the topic jerks i would also like to thank all the good folks on Kahrtalk that contribute and help others who ask questions without answering like a **** of some type. I have been on some forums where if you asked a question you get sarcasm in return telling you what a stupid question that is and if you would just do a search you would see some other stupid person like you asked that before. I'm not a sensitive person to jerks but it does make one want to look for the little middle finger smiley to send back to them as a reply.

This is one of the best gun forums on the net.

Dietrich

07-21-2011, 07:46 PM

Guys, this is my hometown. This is NOT typical for this department. Canton PD is generally a great group of guys and this surprises me. Heck, a buddy of mine is a Canton cop and teaches the CCW courses. It'll be interesting to hear his perspective, but out of respect I'm not bothering him with this now. No need to detour around Ohio, this cop's an ass and he'll get his. This won't be swept under the rug. That said, if that cop was in my backseat you'd better believe that the words "Sir, for my safety I need to inform you that I have a CHL" and my hands would've been touching the headliner.

Yeah. Unfortunately there are just people like that. In all lines of work too. I have worked with some like that.

While we're on the topic jerks i would also like to thank all the good folks on Kahrtalk that contribute and help others who ask questions without answering like a **** of some type. I have been on some forums where if you asked a question you get sarcasm in return telling you what a stupid question that is and if you would just do a search you would see some other stupid person like you asked that before. I'm not a sensitive person to jerks but it does make one want to look for the little middle finger smiley to send back to them as a reply.

This is one of the best gun forums on the net.
On this forum we have always lived by the old saying that it is much better to ask a stupid question than it is to make a stupid mistake.It`s been like that since this little slice of firearms heaven was started.Besides,if we aren`t here to help each other we need to find another passtime.

paul34

07-21-2011, 07:54 PM

I know it's FL Dept of Agriculture.
Sill think they may have a means of cross checking from your DMV drivers licence. They can check the CCW by number. Why not search my name or cross ref by DL? That's a web enabled laptop the joker's looking at.

I'm sure they can check, but they usually do not unless they have a specific reason to do so.

Most states that have shall issue CC have some sort of system for checking permits, because reciprocal states often have requirements to be able to check an out of stater's permit (since obviously they don't have the information in their own systems).

heeler

07-21-2011, 08:05 PM

Guys, this is my hometown. This is NOT typical for this department. Canton PD is generally a great group of guys and this surprises me. Heck, a buddy of mine is a Canton cop and teaches the CCW courses. It'll be interesting to hear his perspective, but out of respect I'm not bothering him with this now. No need to detour around Ohio, this cop's an ass and he'll get his. This won't be swept under the rug. That said, if that cop was in my backseat you'd better believe that the words "Sir, for my safety I need to inform you that I have a CHL" and my hands would've been touching the headliner.

Being a new guy here as well as a couple of other forums I have sat back a bit and not commented about this issue here or or on another forum.
However,I readily agree with Buckeye that the very moment that LEO entered into my vehicle and started searching the back seat I would have placed my hands on high and made damn good and sure he knew I had a concealed handgun license and was duly informing of such and that I actually had it on my physical body.
All that being said the police officer made some very stupid statements knowing all to well they were on tape.
And the fact that he basically stated to the driver that every time from here to eternity he saw him out and about he was going to stop him and arrest him.
Not to mention he was going to try to nail the guy on a felony and we ALL know what that means here.
This cop at that point and certainly at other junctures of the conversation(if you want to call it that) made certain statements that you can already see by the actions and words of the district attorney and police chief that he (the leo) is pretty much going to be sent out the door m inus his badge.
And I can understand the lawyers guild wanting to use this case as the basis for changing the notification law that is currently on the books.
But...I can more than understand why the police stopped these people and questioned them at that hour of the night and in such a place.
Sure would raise my suspicion as well and I am not even a cop.
Both sides should have handled this better.

Barth

07-21-2011, 08:19 PM

I'm thinking that traffic stops and domestic violence are some of the most dangerous things police deal with. Here in Florida we have had some high profile
killings of police performing what appeared to be a routine traffic stop.

This video stinks for sure. But both hands on the wheel, no sudden movements
and immediate notification of being legally armed just seems smart.
My way of thinking is I'm defusing the situation by stating I have a permit up front. It's my way of saying - I'm a good guy!

yqtszhj

07-21-2011, 08:41 PM

Lots of mess ups by ALL parties in that whole video.

ltxi

07-21-2011, 09:11 PM

Long, long gone from Ohio but still keep up membership in a Dayton FOP lodge. Used to be guns in the glove compartment were common but a misdemeanor ticket and no one much cared without a reason/probable cause. From what I've observed long distance it seems as though shall issue permits and the attendant data base stuff has almost made Ohio ccw more trouble than it's worth.

That said, cops like this aren't in the least bit exclusive to Ohio and having started out in a buck an hour, no eduction or training, hire the high school bullies, rural department in 1961 I really do understand bad. At least in the better jurisdictions, today, they're psych weeded out before they get the badge.

jocko

07-21-2011, 09:39 PM

agree, our local police dept of 7 officers are just the off the street guys who want o carry a gun. None are rocket scientists, Pay is pitiful to say the least. None every make it to the state police status, as they just are't qualified when it gets down to it.
It is not much of a job, they were about 2 years ago carrying reloads. of the7 officers, they carried 3 9mm 40 cal and 1 45, all glocks. not what a good dept would allow with such a misture. WhenI found out about the rolaods I bought them all a 100 rounds of wwb range ammo and each a box of 25 defense rounds. You wuld have thought I walked on water after that. OUr city has no money to provide proper ammo..:blah:

Scimmia

07-21-2011, 10:47 PM

Anyone know how many IA investigations are considered normal for a police officer? Seems this officer is on #16 since 2000.

wyntrout

07-21-2011, 11:09 PM

What an a$$hole. He should never be allowed near a gun again... the cop. This is too reminiscent of the bully cops down around New Orleans where the police chief ordered everyone disarmed and too many of the cops were like this one... legalized bullies enthusiastically disarming the innocent, law-abiding citizens who had more need of their weapons than ever for the basic human right of self-protection in the emergency situation they were in.

I'm very PRO Law Enforcement, but that's not what this is. It's a bigoted bully throwing his considerable weight around with the protection of a BADGE... a power trip of the worst kind. How he could still have a job after all that he said and did in this video says a lot for police corruption and the "brotherhood", but nothing good.

I'm glad that I've never run into an a$$hole like that! I don't know how I could sit still for that kind of abuse. My blood is really boiling over that and the New Orleans crap around Katrina. Our Sheriff and Police Department in Jacksonville are super and I would assist them in a heartbeat... I have, a few times, assisted my friend and policeman residing in the park behind my house. I'm always watching for officers needing assistance... just in case. I really worry about the men and women who patrol alone. Sometimes two officers are not enough, but lone officers are too vulnerable.
This jerk had a partner and more, and maybe he was being a bigger jerk just trying to show them what a bada$$ he was... totally out of control.

I hope the real victim gets a good lawyer and doesn't roll over on this. That jerk ought to be locked up, not preying on the citizens... "Serve and Protect"... Protect US from him.

Wynn:mad:

aray

07-22-2011, 12:17 AM

I agree with the comments that there were opportunities for improvement on both sides. Law enforcement is like any other career field: most folks want to do the right thing but no place is exempt from a few bad apples. Presumably the Canton PD will weed this one out be better off for it.

Generically you might want to consider the advice in the following video from Massad Ayoob on what to do if you're pulled over by police. He makes some comments about how to proceed that I think are worth considering: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/05/27/tips-when-stopped-by-police/

OldLincoln

07-22-2011, 12:46 AM

Longitude Zero

07-22-2011, 09:49 AM

For me when a driver self reports as he/che is required the conversation generally migrated to the relative merits of one gun vs the other, what ammo do ya carry, etc. This was the vast majority of stops, now if the driver was a bunghole about the stop or violation and broke loose with an atitude he/che was treated according to their attitude.

TheTman

07-22-2011, 12:04 PM

Not to give the so called "officer" any credit, but I can kind of see how he got in such a bad frame of mind. He pulls up late at night, probably in a bad neighborhood, behind a car driven by a white man stopped to talk to a black man and a girl. He probably thought he had a hooker and pimp, or a drug deal going down or something and got all fired up. He may have just come from another troublesome stop and was still fuming over that or something. That does not excuse his behaviour at all, he still needs a new job and some anger management therapy, and have his gun rights revoked. If I were the driver, I would have just started shouting I have a CC permit while keeping my hands visible. I doubt if it would have made any difference to the jerk, he was looking to show what a bad ass he was. He probably would have given the driver grief over having a gun on him to make a drug deal or pick up a hooker. He acts like he thinks he belongs to some elite class and only they should have firearms.
I certainly hope cops like him are a very rare occurance, but I have a feeling there are plenty more just like him. School boy bullys that end up with a badge and a gun and a lot of attitude that you are guilty of something, he just has to find what it is.

HighSpeedBail

07-22-2011, 12:19 PM

1. The officer didn't run the plates until it was over and that's when he got radio info re the CCW. Should have run plates before he got out of the car.

2. The officer talked over everything any of them said, then screamed at the driver for not telling him he has a CCW. Duh!

4. I understand he is on paid leave, but I hope he is suitably ashamed by his family and friends seeing how he performs his job.

+1

The LEOs handled the situation poorly. Why they didn't secure the entire scene is beyond me.

3. No matter what, the driver should have announced it loud and clear at least when the LEO got into the car.

Why the LEO got into the car in the first place without securing the driver is beyond me. :popcorn: I believe in Florida you have to give consent to search your vehicle unless they have probable cause. What the laws are in Ohio I have no idea but it doesn't appear the LEO asked for permission to search the backseat.

Now lets say it was legal for them to enter the backseat without permission.

The cop is already in the back seat. The guy in the front says, Officer I have a CCW... how do you think the officer is going to react? Probably will **** his pants, pull out his gun and try to jump out of the car at the same time. Disaster waiting to happen.

Ken

wyntrout

07-22-2011, 01:24 PM

+1, Tom & Ken.

I think the officer's bad actions REALLY escalated when he saw how badly he had managed the stop and search with respect to the safety of him and his partner. It was entirely his own fault that the driver was never checked for weapons or the keys removed from the ignition or anything to minimize the danger to him and his partner.

I can understand a few expletives with stress, but this guy was on camera and totally profane and threatening the poor driver... and I'm not convinced that the cop didn't get physical with him... off camera, but audible... certainly not Officer Friendly. I really wonder how things had gone if the officer had been alone... no buddy as a witness.:eek: It didn't sound like this guy was above constructing a justifiable deadly force incident... he certainly discussed it ON CAMERA AUDIO!!

Wynn:(

earle8888

07-22-2011, 01:28 PM

Yep! The whole (hole) situation was FUBAR. The CCW guy was in a very bad location. The actions of officer and accompanied officer's didn't adhere to ANY proto- call regarding controlling the situation and securing the area, etc. BUT, the CCW did act scared and squirley. The law requiring notification, is in principle, a very good idea. BUT this shows a serious misuse of it. The media and some well wishing and rich people have changed the mental position of the average-joe, pursuant to fire arms. I don't see a return to the good-ole0days when the average-joe respected the uniform with a gun and the uniform with a gun assumed, and respected the average-joe had a fire arm.

jocko

07-22-2011, 01:47 PM

I can't remember who it was on this forum who said he had called many news media people after seeing the video. WELL MY FRIEND U DID WELL. iT IS ALL OVER fOX nEWS TODAY,

I THINK U BLEW THE "SILENT" LID OFF THIS OFFICER. The news media sure in hell didn't try to defend him either. Nice job to our forum member. I feel it was ur efforts that brought it to light...

Longitude Zero

07-22-2011, 02:34 PM

Whoever brought it to lite and got the media interested is to be praised, whether from here or not.

Barth

07-22-2011, 04:41 PM

JFootin

07-22-2011, 06:29 PM

That's excellent advice!

Polygon

07-22-2011, 06:33 PM

jocko

07-22-2011, 06:36 PM

Which is why when I'm pulled over I have one hand on the wheel and the other resting on the window sill with my drivers license and carry permit ready to hand to the LEO.

Notifying the LEO are the first words out of my mouth.

in the Northern Agreesion State of Indiana, we are not required to tellthem anything. No
BMV report will show a ccw permit either. If I was out of state and got pu8lled over but had a legal right to carry in that stte due torecoprocity with Indiana, I would tell the officer immediately as I do not know their states carry laws "fine print". If it is in my bikes saddlebags unloaded and bag locked, I would say nothing.:popcorn:

Polygon

07-22-2011, 06:39 PM

in the Northern Agreesion State of Indiana, we are not required to tellthem anything. No
BMV report will show a ccw permit either. If I was out of state and got pu8lled over but had a legal right to carry in that stte due torecoprocity with Indiana, I would tell the officer immediately as I do not know their states carry laws "fine print". If it is in my bikes saddlebags unloaded and bag locked, I would say nothing.:popcorn:
Here in Utah you are not required to either. However, they will see it in the computer when they run the license. When they come back they will be a bit perturbed to say the least.

Dietrich

07-22-2011, 06:48 PM

Anyone know how many IA investigations are considered normal for a police officer? Seems this officer is on #16 since 2000.

16 internal affairs investigations on this one officer and he`s still on the force? Makes me wonder if anything at all will happen to him.If it weren`t for the internet and the fact that the national news media in the form of Fox news had broadcast it, the whole thing would have never been heard of and he could go merrily on his way to #17,18 and on and on.

Barth

07-22-2011, 07:02 PM

in the Northern Agreesion State of Indiana, we are not required to tellthem anything. No
BMV report will show a ccw permit either. If I was out of state and got pu8lled over but had a legal right to carry in that stte due torecoprocity with Indiana, I would tell the officer immediately as I do not know their states carry laws "fine print". If it is in my bikes saddlebags unloaded and bag locked, I would say nothing.:popcorn:

We are required to be knowledgeable and abide by the laws of the state we are in. That's an important aspect of the reciprocity agreement. This is particularly important for Floridians. As our license, unlike most other states, is a weapon rather than a gun permit. Many of the knives I carry legally in Florida would be considered a concealed deadly weapon in most other states. Even with a reciprocity agreement.

ltxi

07-22-2011, 09:24 PM

I just got back from a 4500 mile, 15 state (16 if you count the quarter mile diversion off I-84 into Port Jervis, NJ for non-ethanol gas) road trip from Colorado to Maine and back. So all this is kinda fresh in my mind.

Carry guns went into unloaded, locked truck bed storage upon leaving PA for compliance with federal transport protection law. And other than when in Maine, where I have a non-resident permit, that's where they stayed until hitting the PA border on our return.

I chanced it through Illinois....as I always do....running painfully just under five over the limit. Not as much concern with Ohio on the outbound even though none of my state permits are good there.

Mass Ayoob's advice from the video is generically excellent. I'm a 90+% disciple of his from when he first started writing and dispensing advice back in the mid-70's when we both lived in New Hampshire.

Occasionally, I disagree with him. I would never hand over my carry permit with my license/registration/insurance papers on a truly routine traffic stop unless notification was required. No sense in complicating matters. What I will do, as I'm sure many can appreciate, is roll down all of my heavily tinted windows, turn on the dome lights if at night,and keep my and any passenger's hands in plain sight.

TucsonMTB

07-22-2011, 10:16 PM

I did not watch the video, but it sounds like this guy is a jerk.

Contrast this story with my experience the last time I was stopped, by a motorcycle officer while on my bicycle. Trust me when I say my PM40 is fairly obvious under a light colored cycling jersey and I believe my Arizona CCW came up when he called in my driver's license to see if there were any outstanding warrants.

Nothing was said about my side arm. While he was waiting to hear back on his radio, we got to talking about motorcycles and the potential for hearing loss from the wind noise (yes, I have a fair amount myself from years of motorcycle riding). No ticket was issued and we parted with a hand shake.

This is the image cultivated by every police office with whom I have had contact. I'd like it to stay that way.

Yeah, I do live in my own little world and they seem to like me there. :D

ltxi

07-22-2011, 11:21 PM

Mas is in no way a jerk. One of the sanest, most self-deprecating gun guys with a long career in LE in existence.

TucsonMTB

07-22-2011, 11:37 PM

Mas is in no way a jerk. One of the sanest, most deprecating gun guys with a long career in LE in existence.
Oops! I was referring to the original video and the guy with "16 internal affairs investigations on this one officer". Mas is fine in my book.

ltxi

07-23-2011, 07:44 AM

Oops! I was referring to the original video and the guy with "16 internal affairs investigations on this one officer". Mas is fine in my book.

Yeah, I realized what you were referring to later last night. My bad, that should have been obvious.

wyntrout

01-11-2012, 06:06 PM

Wacko Canton, Ohio officer terminated, but it ain't over... looking for PTSD disability?

http://ht.ly/8q8Rf

Wynn:rolleyes:

muggsy

01-11-2012, 07:07 PM

16 internal affairs investigations on this one officer and he`s still on the force? Makes me wonder if anything at all will happen to him.If it weren`t for the internet and the fact that the national news media in the form of Fox news had broadcast it, the whole thing would have never been heard of and he could go merrily on his way to #17,18 and on and on.

Just wondering Dietrich, was the officer found guilty of any wrong doing in the other 16 investigations? The first thing that a perp does is claim excessive use of force, so that they can file a lawsuit against the city. Mo money, mo money, mo money.

muggsy

01-11-2012, 07:21 PM

I could be wrong about that.
Always thought a cop could run a check on the registered owner of a car and get the drivers record. And also check for concealed carry as an additional check. I'm not a cop. But it seems like I remember police seeming to know I had
a permit before I told them. Maybe a Florida officer can chime in?

Either way, just making sure a situation doesn't accidentally turn lethal by
stating I'm legally armed up front just seems like a wise decision.
Enough people have been accidentally killed without even having a gun!

(plus I though in the video it was stated that the dispatcher failed to
indicate the person had a permit initially?!?)

That only works if the driver is the registered owner of the vehicle.

muggsy

01-11-2012, 07:33 PM

Wacko Canton, Ohio officer terminated, but it ain't over... looking for PTSD disability?

http://ht.ly/8q8Rf

Wynn:rolleyes:

If the officer does have PTSD he is entitled to disability. In the Area of canton which he worked I wouldn't be surprised if his claim was legitimate. Were not talking Mayberry RFD here. Cleveland ranked 7th in the national crime statistics and Canton was 37th. Come play in our backyard.

ltxi

01-11-2012, 07:40 PM

Just wondering Dietrich, was the officer found guilty of any wrong doing in the other 16 investigations? The first thing that a perp does is claim excessive use of force, so that they can file a lawsuit against the city. Mo money, mo money, mo money.

I'm sure if I didn't point this out, someone else soon surely would. Our much respected and to some a close friend, Dietrich, just recently passed away unexpectedly.

wyntrout

01-11-2012, 07:50 PM

There's just no end to the apologists for this AH hiding behind a badge.

Wynn:rolleyes:

1radman

01-11-2012, 07:59 PM

Sorry to hear about Dietrich. I live in VA and the very first time I was stopped as a ccw holder I did not inform the officer that I was in possession of my weapon. As he came to my window he calmly said "regarding your concealed carry permit...do you have your weapon with you"? He obviously ran me before approaching the car. I now assume they always run my plates. The last 2 times I was pulled as a ccw holder I did exactly what was demonstrated in the video and stated that "my weapon is in the vehicle'" or something similar. On all 3 occasions the officers remained calm and professional and the best part is I got no tickets! Seems there's been some confusion here in VA as to your responsibility when pulled over. Masoob's video is right on and 99.9% of the cops will appreciate it.