It happened to me... Broken PM40 mag follower

[mudfish]

I had a 100% flawless PM40 with about 800 rounds thru it. Went shooting with three friends yesterday, all three had malfunctions with my gun. Then I did. Seemed to be the second shot with the factory 5rd mag. Wasn't returning to battery fully. Then was unable to load more than one round in the mag because the follower was hanging up. Noticed the lower front part of the follower was broken off. My other mags worked fine.

So now my carry gun is no longer 100%... :(

[wayneo1]

I would not even blink an eye on that one. Just get a new mag maybe Kahr will cover it. How old is the gun.

[mudfish]

The gun left the factory 9 months ago, and I bought it new about 8 months ago.

Tell you what, I've owned a lot of guns and this is the first mag follower I've ever broken.

And on a pretty new gun.

That has a reputation of breaking mag followers.

[mudfish]

"Just get a new mag" is a chunk of change, they're not cheap.

[wyntrout]

An email with a good picture is worth 1000 words. Kahr will replace the follower. That's why you should have extra magazines. I always got extra mags before I got the pistols... at a cheaper store than Kahr, though... Cheaper Than Dirt is usually good on prices for Kahr magazines.

Wynn:)

[mudfish]

My 3 buddies had never shot a Kahr before, only read about Kahr's problems. I talked mine up pretty big, only to have it malfunction repeatedly at the range... Those three guys will never buy a Kahr!

[knkali]

FWIW at the IDPA match yesterday. Two guys had mag failures on other make guns. This stuff happens. Throw the gun at the BG and go to knife.

[jocko]

kahr doeswn't make the magazines or followers. No excuse either but for some reason they have had some magazines fail due to splitting and the follower breaking thing to me seems more common in the 40 cal kahrs and I have no reason why that is either. Many companies use polymer magazine followers with no issues, actually kahr is one of the first that I have ever read of this issue happening "alot". If it happens to you oncve, that is alot.

I had two followers crack in 32,000 rounds and both times I never knew they were even broken until I took my mags apart for periodic inspection and cleaning and then the broken part fell out. THE MAGAZINES NEVER FAILED TO WORK.

Kahr will replace them, be polite, they know about this issue, not sure one has to repreach to them about it, they are aware of it and I certainly feel they don't like it either and whether it is a magazine failure or the gun itself actually causing it, you will not get that answer from kahr. trust me on that.

I know back in my days with kel tecs that this was a pretty common thing to happen and most found out that it was the feed ramp hitting that follower on the last round busting the follower. I think KT did alittle design change to the ramp and it was solved. Many before kt ever got around to it, called the procedure a "RAMPOCTOMY".

[MarineDoc]

What gives with Kahr and their magazines. I have a new MP40, first time I took it to the range, a follower broke. Kahr did send a new one. Yesterday, went to the range, first mag use, follower broke. Checked the rest of them today (5) and found one with the beginning of a crack. Three out of six mags is not a very good reliability record to me. I had been using this as my back-up but I am having serious doubts about that now. I may have to look for something with a better mag track record.

[garyb]

Now that I know followers are a problem on the PM40 I'll check mine more carefully in the future. I have not been paying much attention to this follower issue. I have 5 mags and so far I have not experienced any problems...no failures of any kind.

I am disappointed to hear that Mudfish's follower problem will influence his 3 buddies and Kahr's reputation, but I guess if people have it in their mind that Kahr has too many problems, it is what it is. It is not like other gun owners have not experienced problems...even glocks. Oh well. Hope you can get it fixed at no cost.

[MarineDoc]

Darn TucsonMTB (http://kahrtalk.com/member.php?u=4388), I am impressed. Wow, that was the first time I ever heard how those little buggers were made. You really impressed me. Thanks for the insight. I too hope that Kahr comes up with a work around for the weakness. Love the pistol.

[garyb]

Yea, Thanks TucsonMTB. Reinforcing words about my followers and an interesting explanation about why there may be problems with this part. It seems like an easy fix to improve their product and reputation. However, as others indicated, perhaps Kahr may not be molding this part and they farm it (follower molding) out to another supplier who is pushing out these parts with less regard than is deserved??? For want of a follower the PM was lost....

[earle8888]

I got to be the lucky guy! Several thousand rounds down and NO mag problems with flush mags. BUT have feeding problems, some times, at the range with extended mags. I need to go check my mags!!!!

[dirty_sanchez]

Guys- Who else can I talk to OTHER than Ian? A Friday range session resulted in another broken follower for my PM40.

Kahr-are you reading this?

A few years back I called Kahr about a broken follower and spoke to Ian who cheerfully replaced the follower and even send a spare for the just-in-case (gratis) without even a second question, any sort of grief and definately no aggrivation.

Earlier this morning I called, spoke to him, mentioned how much I love my PM9 AND my PM40, and explained that I now have 3 followers broken and I'd like replacements. Said the pistol should not break followers-then went on explaining why they're breaking.

I didn't get around to telling him that it's taken many thousands of rounds and several years to accumulate a my collection of broken followers.

He insists that if I send in the 40, they'll machine a bit off and replace the followers. This will come at FFL fees as well as shipping charges I'll have to eat. If they cover all charges to and fro, I'd be willing to send the pistol to them-I doubt it though.

I just want the darned followers replaced.

I called Kahr in a perfectly good mood but hung up the phone with him supremely aggrivated.

An I out of line here?

Any other names to speak with? Is there a special secret code word?

Dirty

[JFootin]

There are no FFL fees. Kahr (and any gun manufacturer) can ship to you directly without an FFL dealer getting involved. Why wouldn't you want them to fix the problem for good? Be very politely insistent on them covering shipping both ways, and they most likely WILL do it.

[muggsy]

Kahr should purchase their mags from Meggar or Shooting Star and end their mag problems.

[gb6491]

Kahr should purchase their mags from Meggar or Shooting Star and end their mag problems.
While I believe Kahr magazines could be improved upon, I think that broken followers in the .40 cal guns are feed ramp related vice a magazine issue. That dirty_ sanchez was told ".. if I send in the 40, they'll machine a bit off and replace the followers..." seems to confirm that.
Regards,
Greg

[dirty_sanchez]

So I can send the pistol through the USPS mail straight from me to Kahr....no FFL involved?

Guess I'm one for near immediate gratification...such is life.

Dirty

[JFootin]

No FFL is required but you need to ship via UPS or FedEx. The easiest way is to ask Kahr to send you a prepaid label. It will be in the form of a PDF attachment to an email that you print out and apply to the outer box when you send the pistol in. Kahr prefers that you use their plastic box inside a cardboard box for shipping.

Since Kahr recognizes that they have a problem, Ian should quickly agree to provide the free shipping via the prepaid label. Go for it! :D

Edited to add: Oh, and be sure to write something up describing why the pistol is being sent in. Put in inside the plastic box with the pistol so that the gunsmith is sure to get it and do the right thing. :rolleyes:

Using Kahr's label, you can request home pickup. Save a trip. :)

[allglock]

Kahr replaced my barrel for the problem of follower breakage on my PM40.

[dirty_sanchez]

Alright guys, gonna go ahead and do it.

I'll make some measurements and take some closeup photos to keep track of what they do.

Dirty

[Rainman48314]

FWIW at the IDPA match yesterday. Two guys had mag failures on other make guns. This stuff happens. Throw the gun at the BG and go to knife.I had all four welds holding the baseplate on a Chip McCormick mag fail as I fired my Sig 1911. The mag had been used for only two loads (14 rnds) before parts went flying and the gun jammed. The factory mags are a few years old and work fine, a Wilson mag I bought also works fine and is the best design of the bunch. I just got a $21 credit back from Natchez Shooting Supply.

[Rainman48314]

So I can send the pistol through the USPS mail straight from me to Kahr....no FFL involved?

Guess I'm one for near immediate gratification...such is life.

DirtyYou've already heard you should not use the USPS (it's illegal!), but it's important to follow the rules that FedEx and UPS use. You can find them on their respective web sites. If you try and beat their systems, and your gun is lost, they will deny any claim. You must use next day air, period. You must use a hub and declare that you are shipping an unloaded firearm. Don't use a third party drop center.

If the part of the gun with the serial number is ever replaced, you WILL need an FFL and you will pay those fees. Any State red tape applies as if you bought a new gun. Their fees too.

[mudfish]

Update: I called Kahr many months ago and "Ian" told me they'd send a new PM40 mag follower to me. Nothing ever showed up.

I called over and over again but got tired of being put on hold forever. I tried leaving a short detailed message a few times, and yes they called me back the next day. But it was always at a bad time like when I was at work and not available to talk about gun stuff. Often times I'd get ready to call again only to remember that the Kahr shop is on the East coast 3 hrs difference plus they close early...

I called FIVE times last week and never got thru to a live person. Once I waited 40 minutes on hold. Ian did call back once, but like always, it was a bad time for me at work.

I called first thing this morning. I got through to Ian after a short hold, ordered a new mag follower, had him repeat the address back to me, and now I wait...

This has been quite a frustrating customer service experience so far.

[Frankhenrylee]

OK, so let me get this straight. As far as PM40's go, the mag followers are unreliable and can go at any moment. The extended mags are unreliable and should be tossed off a bridge. Any mag may or may not split, which makes all mags unreliable. Kahr's customer service is unreliable. Oh yeah, and I need to ship my PM40 back to Kahr's unreliable customer service to have the ramp modified. Yet some guns have these problems and some don't leading me to believe their standards are unreliable. All this talk is making me feel like my gun could become unreliable at any given moment. Not exactly what I'm looking for in the only thing standing between my family and a few bad guys when were out and about.
Hmmm, when's that new Springfield XD-S .45 come out? I've never had any trouble out of my XD's, but then again, I'm sure some people have.

[MLESa7990]

OK, so let me get this straight. As far as PM40's go, the mag followers are unreliable and can go at any moment. The extended mags are unreliable and should be tossed off a bridge. Any mag may or may not split, which makes all mags unreliable. Kahr's customer service is unreliable. Oh yeah, and I need to ship my PM40 back to Kahr's unreliable customer service to have the ramp modified. Yet some guns have these problems and some don't leading me to believe their standards are unreliable. All this talk is making me feel like my gun could become unreliable at any given moment. Not exactly what I'm looking for in the only thing standing between my family and a few bad guys when were out and about.
Hmmm, when's that new Springfield XD-S .45 come out? I've never had any trouble out of my XD's, but then again, I'm sure some people have.


So sell your unreliable PM40. Why worry about a pistol you probably won't ever fully trust when there are plenty of others out there to choose from?

I have a 100% reliable PM9. All my magazines have been 100% reliable (all 6 of them) and every time I have talked to Kahr's CS. They have been 'reliable'...i.e. ordering parts, since I haven't needed their warranty service for anything.

So Like you stated about the XD's...I've never had a problem with my PM9, but I guess some have.:eek:

[mudfish]

There's a customer service email? I've owned two Kahrs over 5 years and been reading this site since then, and I didn't know that. Is it a secret email? Why isn't it posted anywhere on their web site? Why doesn't the phone recording inform you of the email while you're on hold??!

[JimC]

service@kahr.com

It's on their web site. ;)

[Frankhenrylee]

You know, my PM40 has been 100% except for the extended mags and some fit and finish muck ups that I'm not happy with. If I hadn't started checking this forum out again I wouldn't have known there were more issues that had come up over the past year or so.

Come on Kahr, quit counting beans and take a little more pride in your craftsmanship.

As far as those issues go, the ole' PM40 will just require a more thorough inspection after range-time to keep me happy. I would definitely recommend the PM9 to anybody interested in a Kahr. The PM40 and PM45 just don't have the same track record. Oh the price we pay for more power. MORE POWER, where's my .44 mag at Kahr? Oh yeah I forgot already, I should be getting a PM9.

[mudfish]

Well, I talked to Kahr 11 days ago and still haven't gotten my mag follower in the mail yet. I guess I could just give up and buy a new magazine, but last time I did that I got the wrong magazine because Kahr packaged it incorrectly at the factory.

Kahrs are sweet guns. The magazines can be a pain in the ***. And my experience with customer service is not making me happy.

[JimC]

Maybe an email to follow-up? service@kahr.com

Can't hurt. You might even get an extra if the first one has shipped. ;)

When mine broke I asked if I could get a spare or two and they sent me 3 or 4. :D

[mudfish]

"Jay" responded within about an hour to my email yesterday morning. He said he'd send several mag followers. They ship via USPS and it had already been picked up, so it would go out Mon am and should arrive by Wed/Thurs. I hope so!

[JimC]

Jay is the person that I've had the most dealings with via e-mail, he's a good man when it comes to CS.
Doug is another that I dealt with with good results.

Good luck with your followers.

[wyntrout]

I keep saying... email is the way to contact Kahr Customer Service. You can compose a "letter", include photos, and then send it... your words in print. Over the phone things get mixed up with spelling or transcribed incorrectly... numbers, letters, etc. No waiting for someone on the phone or someone to call back... unless you just want an ear to chew on... but that won't help service.

Wynn:)

[mudfish]

Ian is worthless.

[JimC]

Ian is worthless.

I didn't find this to be the case when I received an e-mail response from him to a question that I asked CS. He seemed to go the extra little bit to be more personable than some would.

[mudfish]

Failing not once but TWICE to send a simple part = worthless. I spelled out my name and address both times. The last time I made him repeat/spell it back to me. It never showed up. That is customer service FAILURE no matter what type of business it is. Not to mention the new mag I ordered that was a 9mm mag instead of a 40 mag because Kahr put the wrong sticker on the sealed package. That's 3/3 screw ups so far. I'm happy your experience was different, but MINE has been completely horrible.

[donnyboy108]

The correct fix for that problem, is to replace the barrel. You need to send it back, under warranty.

[mudfish]

If I break another mag follower, I will send it back for repair. Replacing mag followers is not the long term solution. I've only broken one so far. I think I have about 1000 rounds through it now, I haven't shot it much lately and when I did it took forever because I'm down to one magazine.

[mudfish]

I got the one mag follower in the mail today. This is the one I ordered from Ian on Jan 30. It's postmarked Feb 9th! What's up with that?!

I emailed Jay on Feb 10th to complain it never arrived... So apparently I have another package from Jay in transit right now.

[TriggerMan]

My Customer Service experiences in the last 12 months:

Kahr, a retaining nut broke off the RSA. A simple phone call and one was sent to me by first class mail and I was only out of commision 8 days including mailing.

Sig, I had a stripped grip screw thread. Sent it in on their UPS account. Was offered a 9mm P290 or replacement with another P238. They let me pick from their many variants, probably because I had another P238 replaced 6 months earlier.

Sig, I tried to get replacement slim grips under warranty. They sent fatter grips because they no longer stock what they sell. Had to spent $50 to get some third party grips.

S&W, I called and told them I accidentally removed a pin I should not have. Got an immediate pre paid shipping label. Ended up the armorer at the dealer fixed it for free.

S&W, offered to do a swap on a defective Eotech sight despite sights not being warranteed by S&W. Took then 60 days to get one. The communicated regularly but I should have gone to Eotech directly. It would have saved 6 weeks time.

H&K, called me the day my gun arrived. Willing to let me talk directly to the gunsmith (can't do that with Sig). When I needed a part, the 'smith went online to find the best price, then lowered his to $10 under that, all on a 32 year old gun OUT OF warranty. They also re-installed the drop safety on another occasion, with no labor charge.

Beretta, read my posts on the forum and contacted me to see if they could be of help. I like their proactive approach. No service needed to date.

[magnum1007]

Both my father and I just bought new Kahr CM40's this past weekend and immediately took them out back to start breaking them in. After the third or fourth magazine in my father's gun, he had a failure to feed. We pulled the mag out and noticed that there was a problem in the magazine. So we took the magazine apart and noticed that the front lip on the plastic follower had broken. The magazine no longer functions as it should now, obviously. So, my father called Kahr on Monday to tell them about it only to be told that they would call him back regarding it...let him know if they were going to ship him a new follower for free or if they were going to charge him for it. Not sure why it would take that long for a decision or why it would warrant a call back versus just telling him then. This is our first experience with Kahr firearms (we have MANY other types and manufacturers' guns). Just curious as to what others' experiences have been with Kahr. In the grand scheme of things, I realize that this is a pretty small and a relatively inexpensive problem to fix; however, it is also BRAND NEW and it should not have broken so soon.

We got them through Davidson's and have thought about just returning it through them but I think they would have us return the gun too and then who knows how long it would be before they had any of these in stock again in order to replace it. Not to mention we would have to go back to the FFL dealer, fill out the paperwork, etc. all over again.

He still hasn't heard back from Kahr either.

Thoughts?

[Thunder71]

Should have been a 2 minute call ending with, We apologize for the inconvenience, a new magazine is in the mail.

Sent using Tapatalk on Android

[JimC]

When a follower in one of my PM9 mags broke, I sent Kahr CS an e-mail and described what had happened. I also included a photo of the broken follower.

This mag was a replacement mag with only 12 rds. thru it! :mad:

In about 2 hrs., I received an e-mail response and Kahr CS sent me three replacement followers for my mags. :D

Possibly your Father should do something similar.

[TucsonMTB]

So, my father called Kahr on Monday to tell them about it only to be told that they would call him back regarding it...let him know if they were going to ship him a new follower for free or if they were going to charge him for it.

We got them through Davidson's and have thought about just returning it through them but I think they would have us return the gun too and then who knows how long it would be before they had any of these in stock again in order to replace it. Not to mention we would have to go back to the FFL dealer, fill out the paperwork, etc. all over again.

He still hasn't heard back from Kahr either.

Thoughts?
You might have gotten an inexperienced CS person. I would call again, rather than waiting.

JimC's suggestion to send an email is also good advice. I would try that in addition to calling.

I have a couple of PM40's, both of which broke followers repeatedly when I first got them. At one point, after sending me replacements several times, the CS rep I was talking with suggested that the barrel ramp was hitting my followers and that Kahr would work on the gun itself to solve the issue, if it continued. I took that as a good reason to polish off a little material from the end of the ramp using a rubber abrasive wheel, being careful to duplicate the original shape. Problem solved. Haven't had any breakage since.

Make sure you complete your Davidson's warranty registration in the time they allow. Without completing the registration, you will not have a replacement warranty!

If the issue continues after you replace the follower, Kahr may be willing to work on your gun to solve the issue. Otherwise, Davidson's should be helpful and you should contact them about a repair or replacement. Yes, they probably will require that you send the pistol back, which is why working with Kahr is a better first choice.

The obvious option to reworking the pistol is to just keep replacing followers. Kahr was nice enough to send me a couple extras so that I could do that conveniently. I found that I would usually go several hundred rounds between failures, which worked for me until I finally got brave and eliminated the battering of the follower by the ramp.

Best of luck! We look forward to hearing a happy ending. :)

[jerstolp]

Should have been a 2 minute call ending with, We apologize for the inconvenience, a new magazine is in the mail.

Sent using Tapatalk on Android
yeah right ,my pm 40 mag split. i had to ship it to kahr first, thay got it on feb 25. and im still waiting. i talked to ian 7-10 days ago, but obviously that didnt help.

[jerstolp]

well i just called karh, and i got through right away(i always do) and i think it was ian, and he said, yes we revieved your mag on the 27th(i thought the 25) and theres no return shipping info yet. it could be that shipping is waiting on a new batch of mags. sorry for the wait. it should be shipped out soon. BS...........

[TucsonMTB]

well i just called karh, and i got through right away(i always do) and i think it was ian, and he said, yes we revieved your mag on the 27th(i thought the 25) and theres no return shipping info yet. it could be that shipping is waiting on a new batch of mags. sorry for the wait. it should be shipped out soon. BS...........
Cool! You do realize that he is a little at the mercy of the shipping folks. He does not personally drop it in mail and, yes, they do run out of repair parts from time to time.

The problem is partly the scale of their operation. Kahr has literally tens of thousands of customers. Yes, they try to make each one feel like they are getting individual attention, but you are probably waiting in line, figuratively speaking, of course. ;)

[jerstolp]

i understand. i still think its crap to wait this long for a mag.

[magnum1007]

I hate to say it, since it's the main reason why I purchased it, but if I can't trust my new Kahr CM40, I won't conceal carry it. It's a real shame that right now I have more faith in my Taurus TCP than a Kahr.

[magnum1007]

I hate to say it, since it's the main reason why I purchased it, but if I can't trust my new Kahr CM40, I won't conceal carry it. It's a real shame that right now I have more faith in my Taurus TCP than a Kahr.


Especially since I just ordered a new Crossbreed IWB holster for it.

[TucsonMTB]

I hate to say it, since it's the main reason why I purchased it, but if I can't trust my new Kahr CM40, I won't conceal carry it. It's a real shame that right now I have more faith in my Taurus TCP than a Kahr.
You should do whatever makes you comfortable. I can't make that decision for you.

However, were I you, I wouldn't let magazine follower breakages stop you from carrying the gun. At least with both my PM40's, a mag follower breakage has never caused the gun to stop operating.

Every time the front skirt broke off one of my followers (usually during a range session of 50 to 200 rounds) the piece just fell inside the magazine and ended up at the bottom. The pistol always continued to feed and fire just fine. Sometimes the failure was noticed immediately because the follower tended to tilt more and caused loading cartridges into the magazine to require more force. Other times, it was noticed while cleaning the pistol, since I often clean the mags by disassembling.

YMMV

[magnum1007]

In our range session that day, the broken mag was noticed when the slide locked back even though there were still rounds remaining in the magazine. So I guess when I stated it had a FTF, that was not entirely true, in the normal sense of the phrase. You could rack the slide back and coax it to chamber the next round, and it would sometimes chamber rounds consecutively as it should, but it would eventually lock back again with rounds remaining in the magazine.

I would agree with you if with the broken follower, it would still empty the magazine normally and the only problem was when loading the magazine; however, that is not what we have experienced unfortunately.

[TucsonMTB]

In our range session that day, the broken mag was noticed when the slide locked back even though there were still rounds remaining in the magazine. So I guess when I stated it had a FTF, that was not entirely true, in the normal sense of the phrase. You could rack the slide back and coax it to chamber the next round, and it would sometimes chamber rounds consecutively as it should, but it would eventually lock back again with rounds remaining in the magazine.

I would agree with you if with the broken follower, it would still empty the magazine normally and the only problem was when loading the magazine; however, that is not what we have experienced unfortunately.
Bummer! If that had happened to me, I wouldn't have messed around for six months before fixing mine.

Based on your experience, once Kahr gets their act together and sends you a replacement follower or two, if they continue to break . . . either Kahr needs to fix the gun itself under warranty and pay shipping for that return or you need to send it back to Davidson's for replacement.

Just my opinion, of course, but now I am on your side of the debate. ;)

[jerstolp]

ive never had a follower issue. and if i did it wouldnt stop me from using my pm40 for a edc gun. i love my pm40. but im pissed at kahr cs. im not gunna lie. the followers the mags splitting, .it goes on AND ON with different guns and different things. the bottom line is kahr needs th get their **** together...................

[TucsonMTB]

ive never had a follower issue. and if i did it wouldnt stop me from using my pm40 for a edc gun. i love my pm40. but im pissed at kahr cs.
You have never had a problem and you are annoyed? :rolleyes:

Hey, this is NOT a complaint department. It is a forum for Kahr enthusiasts to HELP each other.

Please try to see if you can find a way to make a useful contribution. :D

[jerstolp]

no follower issue but my mag split

[magnum1007]

Though Kahr never got back to my father on the phone, today in the mail a new follower showed up for him. He is going to email them a thank you for the quick service.

Unfortunately this doesn't change the fact that these followers are not holding up...which makes it worrisome if used for concealed carry/BUG (pretty much what the firearm was designed for). What a shame because the gun (minus the magazine and follower) looks great, shoots great, etc.

[TucsonMTB]

Though Kahr never got back to my father on the phone, today in the mail a new follower showed up for him. He is going to email them a thank you for the quick service.

Unfortunately this doesn't change the fact that these followers are not holding up...which makes it worrisome if used for concealed carry/BUG (pretty much what the firearm was designed for). What a shame because the gun (minus the magazine and follower) looks great, shoots great, etc.
Cool! I'm glad Kahr CS is still working as most of us have come to expect, despite the poorly trained person your father first spoke with when he called. :)

I understand your concern. It would be a shame if one broken plastic part kept you from enjoying a nice pistol, but you have to make your own decision.

Besides, most of us have seen some real bargains in used (non-Kahr) pistols that had some small, easily corrected issue. I would hate to dry up that stream of goodies. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/icon_lol.gif

But, more seriously, if you break one follower, it could have been a defective part and may never be an issue again. If you break two in the same gun, that individual gun has a barrel ramp to follower clearance problem and needs to be fixed or replaced.

Fortunately, you have the Kahr warranty and the Davidson's warranty to fall back on, depending on your decision.

As great a design as the Kahr is for a carry pistol, if you don't have confidence in it . . . move on to something you feel you can trust.

Best of luck!

[jocko]

I had a cracked follower in mny PM9 and n ever even knew it was cracked until I took the magazine apart one day to just reclean it and inspect it and out fell two parts of the follower. I have no idea how long it was broke but it never gave me one issue--lucky maybe.

Tucson is right, if ur unhappy with kahrs, then find a gun that pleases u and go for it. not the end of the world for u or kahr. Kahrs are not for everyone. One the very basis of how hard kahrs are to rack even across the entire line of thier guns, IMO they certainly are not a gun for the average woman. There are ways to work around that if one really desires. Kahr used to have a lady kahr and it was basicaly the same gun with an even lighter recoil spring than the factgory springs. never knoew of a woman who owned one of those models either, so I am at a loss to say if that couple pounds less strength on the recoil spring made any real difference as far as a female hand racking that model either.. sounded like a very good sale pitch though.

[magnum1007]

Cool! I'm glad Kahr CS is still working as most of us have come to expect, despite the poorly trained person your father first spoke with when he called. :)

I understand your concern. It would be a shame if one broken plastic part kept you from enjoying a nice pistol, but you have to make your own decision.

Besides, most of us have seen some real bargains in used (non-Kahr) pistols that had some small, easily corrected issue. I would hate to dry up that stream of goodies. http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ejustsomeguy/icon_lol.gif

But, more seriously, if you break one follower, it could have been a defective part and may never be an issue again. If you break two in the same gun, that individual gun has a barrel ramp to follower clearance problem and needs to be fixed or replaced.

Fortunately, you have the Kahr warranty and the Davidson's warranty to fall back on, depending on your decision.

As great a design as the Kahr is for a carry pistol, if you don't have confidence in it . . . move on to something you feel you can trust.

Best of luck!

All great comments and conclusions by you TucsonMTB...VERY MUCH appreciated. At the end of the day, I still know that EVERY gun has the potential for failure at any point in time. It will take me quite a few rounds (divided up into MANY sessions since after about 60 rounds my hand starts to tire out/blister!!!LOL) with this CM40 for me to stop worrying about that tiny piece of plastic in the follower going belly up on me.

[TucsonMTB]

Thank you for the kind words, sir! Very much appreciated! :)

[mudfish]

I'm the original poster. My friends had multiple FTF malfunctions while shooting my PM40. Then I was unable to load more than 2 rds into that mag. I was embarassed so I put it away. Turns out that mag had a broken follower. Did it cause the malfunctions? Or were they limp wristing? I can't say for sure, but my other mag shot fine. For sure the broken follower prevented loading.

[magnum1007]

Our second range session with both of our CM40's was somewhat disappointing. My Dad got his new follower and we both now have a second magazine for each of our guns...the extended 6 rounders direct from Kahr. His gun still experienced multiple FTF's in almost every magazine. We even tried using my magazines and got the same results. My gun only had a few FTF's...3 or 4 at most if I remember correctly. Both of us now have approximately 200 rounds through each of the guns. My Dad sent me an email the day after we had been shooting and said that he had taken his CM40 down to clean it and noticed the large spring in the recoil spring guide assembly had sort of a kink in it and was somewhat bent at the kink. He asked me to take a look at mine and so I did...mine looked normal. He called Kahr to order a new spring, which they would not sell to him by itself so he had to order the entire assembly. I told him to send the gun back to Davidsons instead, but he had already ordered the part. In my uneducated opinion, I think there is something out of spec and/or wrong with his gun and I think he needs to return it. He said he will send it back if it still doesn't run right after he replaces the assembly. Neither one of us is very happy with our first Kahr experiences unfortunately.

[JFootin]

Our second range session with both of our CM40's was somewhat disappointing. My Dad got his new follower and we both now have a second magazine for each of our guns...the extended 6 rounders direct from Kahr. His gun still experienced multiple FTF's in almost every magazine. We even tried using my magazines and got the same results. My gun only had a few FTF's...3 or 4 at most if I remember correctly. Both of us now have approximately 200 rounds through each of the guns. My Dad sent me an email the day after we had been shooting and said that he had taken his CM40 down to clean it and noticed the large spring in the recoil spring guide assembly had sort of a kink in it and was somewhat bent at the kink. He asked me to take a look at mine and so I did...mine looked normal. He called Kahr to order a new spring, which they would not sell to him by itself so he had to order the entire assembly. I told him to send the gun back to Davidsons instead, but he had already ordered the part. In my uneducated opinion, I think there is something out of spec and/or wrong with his gun and I think he needs to return it. He said he will send it back if it still doesn't run right after he replaces the assembly. Neither one of us is very happy with our first Kahr experiences unfortunately.

Why did your dad not address this with Kahr as a warranty claim?

Also, there have been a batch of magazines that have the spring in backwards, causing nose dives. Check all your mags.

[TucsonMTB]

Hey Mr. magnum1007!

Although I am a PM40 fan, the 9mm Kahr pistols are generally more reliable than the "fotays".

This might be a good time for you to talk to Davidson's about a CM9 as a replacement?

Just a thought. Here's hoping things start looking up for you.

[magnum1007]

Hey Mr. magnum1007!

Although I am a PM40 fan, the 9mm Kahr pistols are generally more reliable than the "fotays".

This might be a good time for you to talk to Davidson's about a CM9 as a replacement?

Just a thought. Here's hoping things start looking up for you.

The reason we bought the guns was for the size/caliber combo. Neither of us were interested in another "small" sized 9mm...both of us also own G26's. Fingers are still crossed that we can eventually work through the issues. My CM40 has been running pretty good (knock on wood) and I am a lot more accurate with it than I ever expected to be. And I love how loud and snappy it is with the 40 cal round. Again...fingers crossed!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777

[TucsonMTB]

And I love how loud and snappy it is with the 40 cal round.
+1 . . . on the fun to shoot factor! :)

[Dore]

Hey, all. New Kahr owner here. I bought a CM40 at a gun show last Saturday, and took it to the range yesterday. Guess what? Follower broke after the first 6 shots (using Remington Golden Saber, which I happened to have some extra of. That's NOT what I use for CCW, though, as I exclusively use Gold Dots). Unfortunately, Kahr's business hours are the same as when I work (and I currently do not own a phone of any sort). Will they fix this through e-mail? Some of you said they would. I sure hope so. I have to say, this is very, VERY disheartening to find out. I see these little pistols for sale all the time, at exhorbitant prices, and the (relatively) inexpensive CM series seemed just about right for me (and I got a HECK of a deal on it to boot, and it was brand new!). Funny, my first pistol was a Hi-Point C9, and after spending literally 1 minute adjusting the feed lips on the magazine, it NEVER ONCE failed to operate in any capacity, and was scary accurate for how inexpensive it was. Now, I get this supposedly precision made pistol, and am all excited to shoot it, and this happens the FIRST TIME I fire it! Ack! If Kahr can't give me some serious satisfaction here, I'm gonna see if I can't trade the guy (he's local, even though I got it at a gun show) for a Taurus or something.

Also, are there any aftermarket followers for sale out there? A metal one would be very, very nice.

[mudfish]

All PM40 owners should call in and order extra mag followers to keep on hand, you may need one sooner than you think!

[TucsonMTB]

Hey, all. New Kahr owner here. I bought a CM40 at a gun show last Saturday, and took it to the range yesterday. Guess what? Follower broke after the first 6 shots . . .
Bummer! It seems like there is not quite enough clearance between the feed ramp and the front of the magazine follower on the smaller .40 S&W caliber Kahrs. It happened with both my PM40's. I ended up polishing a little material off the end of the ramps on both guns. Problem solved. :)


Will they fix this through e-mail?
Absolutely! Send an email to service@kahr.com. If you can include a picture or at least your serial number, it should speed the process. Ask for a spare or two while you are at it.


If Kahr can't give me some serious satisfaction here, I'm gonna see if I can't trade the guy (he's local, even though I got it at a gun show) for a Taurus or something.
Go for it! The only thing that Kahr offers is an unbeatable package of size and performance. They still have failures, just like most other brands. They may offer to fix the clearance on yours and will usually supply a prepaid shipping label for easy return shipping, but it will take some time for the repair. So, if you are really unhappy and can trade it away . . . go for it.


Also, are there any aftermarket followers for sale out there? A metal one would be very, very nice.
Nope! And, no one would be happier than I if there were. I have tried one other plastic follower. It was more durable, just showing dents rather than breaking, but it did not feed reliably for me. Kahr plastic seems to be the only game in town. :rolleyes:

[Dore]

If I had the ability to polish whatever the metal piece is that's the problem, I would, but currently have neither the tools nor the skill/knowhow to do so.

I'm thinking if I can't get satisfaction here I may see about a Kel-Tec P-9. I love Kel-Tec, and would have enough left over to get something else, too. Maybe a Tokarev pistol or something.

[Dore]

And as an addendum, if Kahr is aware of this problem, why aren't they addressing it? It would be like a car company knowing their cars have brake issues, but the only thing they do about it is offer replacements when the originals break.

[TucsonMTB]

If I had the ability to polish whatever the metal piece is that's the problem, I would, but currently have neither the tools nor the skill/knowhow to do so.
Np worries! That's what you warranty is for. Have you composed your email yet? The sooner you get it into their reading queue the quicker they can respond and get started on making your pistol right.


I'm thinking if I can't get satisfaction here I may see about a Kel-Tec P-9. I love Kel-Tec, and would have enough left over to get something else, too. Maybe a Tokarev pistol or something.
The KahrTalk.com forum is not the warranty department. We try to help, especially with the small teething problems. But, if you have a real issue, only Kahr Arms can help. They may believe you just got some defective plastic parts, and that may be correct, so if they offer replacements, humor them. If the replacements also break, it's time to ship the gun back for work by their competent gun smiths.

We still have a couple of Kel-Tec's in our family, out of the four we have owned. I like them, or they would not still be around. But, they are not in the same class with our Kahr's. Of course, they did not cost nearly as much either. :rolleyes:

[Dore]

I misworded that sentence. By here I meant the overall situation, not this forum.

I've already sent the e-mail. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. I have the serial number, obviously, and could borrow a digital camera to take a picture of the broken part and the reciept if need be.

[TucsonMTB]

And as an addendum, if Kahr is aware of this problem, why aren't they addressing it? It would be like a car company knowing their cars have brake issues, but the only thing they do about it is offer replacements when the originals break.
I can't speak for them, but I suspect Kahr really believes they just have a few defective plastic parts out there. It was only after repeated follower breakages and seeing the impact dents on the softer alternate followers that I realized the feed ramp was the culprit.

If your gun continues to break followers and they recognize that your gun has a clearance problem, I am confident they will fix it and do so quickly and cheerfully.

However, after five Kel-Tec's (several of which needed a "fluff and buff" or a "rampectomy" or a "Flyer hood modification" . . . all classic Kel-Tec fixes, by the way) polishing a little metal of the my feed ramps of my Kahrs was easier than waiting for Kahr to get tired of sending me replacement followers for free, time after time.

Everyone has different skills. For you, a polite email conversation or two with Kahr, including a picture or two, is probably easier than grabbing a rubber abrasive wheel. Me, I would rather polish it myself.

Patience is also an issue. One of my PM40's just spent 4 weeks on a spring break, featuring a visit to Kahr. It runs like top now, so I have no complaints, but it was hard waiting for it even though I have a backup.

My wife will be quick to tell you I am NOT a patient kind of a guy, even when I should be. :rolleyes:

[TucsonMTB]

I misworded that sentence. By here I meant the overall situation, not this forum.

I've already sent the e-mail. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. I have the serial number, obviously, and could borrow a digital camera to take a picture of the broken part and the reciept if need be.
Way to go, sir! I have a good feeling about this! :D

[Dore]

Well, the Kahr is currently my only CCW gun. I have a Smith and Wesson 9mm for the house, and a little .38 Derringer I used to carry, but I wanted something a little more practical than a Derringer for CCW, so this is what I got myself. Though, I am keeping a buddy's Taurus .357 as collateral on a loan right now, and it's pretty small overall, so it could substitute in a pinch if I need to send the Kahr in, I suppose.

[Dore]

The e-mail was in my inbox at 8:30 this morning. Gonna be sending me 2 followers. We'll see how things go from there.

[TucsonMTB]

The e-mail was in my inbox at 8:30 this morning. Gonna be sending me 2 followers. We'll see how things go from there.
Cool! Fingers crossed that yours was just a weak plastic part.

The good news is that when that front piece of the plastic skirt broke off the magazine follower, my gun still functioned just fine. Some people reporting a follower break indicate that they have feeding problems. Mine never caused any.

I usually did not even realize mine had broken until it was time to reload the magazine.

Even with the break, reloading was always possible, just awkward . . . for me. :o

Have you tried reloading your magazine even with the follower broken? You might not need that nice little snubby after all.

[jocko]

mine broke a few years ago like that Tucson, never even knew it was broke until I took the magazine apart to just clean and inspect and out fell two parts.

[Dore]

Yeah, I tried. There's a little piece of plastic that got shoved outwards when it broke and won't let me put any more cartridges in. I'm sure I could file it down, but I'll just wait till I get a new one. No need to mess with a broken one when I don't have to.

[Dore]

Well, a week has gone by with nothing in the mail. I'll give it another week, then I'm returning it for something else.

[TucsonMTB]

Well, a week has gone by with nothing in the mail. I'll give it another week, then I'm returning it for something else.
Why wait? I am guessing that the longer you have it, the less value your original dealer is likely to offer in an exchange.

[magnum1007]

I got my Crossbreed holster in the mail two days ago so I carried my CM40 for the first time yesterday. Felt great too!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777

[muggsy]

I had a 100% flawless PM40 with about 800 rounds thru it. Went shooting with three friends yesterday, all three had malfunctions with my gun. Then I did. Seemed to be the second shot with the factory 5rd mag. Wasn't returning to battery fully. Then was unable to load more than one round in the mag because the follower was hanging up. Noticed the lower front part of the follower was broken off. My other mags worked fine.

So now my carry gun is no longer 100%... :(

Your gun is warranted for five years. It the follower failed within the five year warranty period it should be replaced for free. If out of warranty the follower can be purchased for $11.00. I'd call Kahr and see what they will do. Kahr stands behind their products and I bet that they will send you a new follower or mag for free.

http://www.kahr.com/Parts/Kahr-CM9.asp

[TucsonMTB]

I got my Crossbreed holster in the mail two days ago so I carried my CM40 for the first time yesterday. Felt great too!Good for you! If I am awake and dressed, one of my PM40's is in my pocket.

The CM40 or PM40 is an amazing package of carry gun power. :)

[magnum1007]

I've got the Nemesis for it, but I think because I'm used to carrying my TCP in a Nemesis, the Kahr just feels too big and heavy to carry that way.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777

[TucsonMTB]

I've got the Nemesis for it, but I think because I'm used to carrying my TCP in a Nemesis, the Kahr just feels too big and heavy to carry that way.Everyone has their own enthusiasms. In the waistband is not comfortable for me. The PM40 is small enough for the pockets in the chino trousers and shorts I usually wear. I never wear jeans or their smaller pockets might not work for me.

It's good to hear that you have a system that works for you! :)

[mudfish]

Well, a week has gone by with nothing in the mail. I'll give it another week, then I'm returning it for something else.

Hope it isn't Ian that's handling your order...

[Redfish]

Kahr has been good about sending me two mag followers when I break one. Would be nicer to redesign them so they would stop breaking.

[Planedude]

Has anyone ever posted photos here of the feedramp fix? I guess I don't quite understand where the ramp is contacting, causing the followers to fail. At the bottom of the ramp I'm sure, but where and how much the offending metal dose one remove? I would be one to polish it out if I understood where to grind and polish.
Perhaps photos of the polishing were in another thread?
I have not had the problem in my gun or mags. Lucky me, but I'd love to know the answer if it the issue ever did show up here.
Thanks.

[TucsonMTB]

Here are some comment by Caver 60 in the thread on GlockTalk that describes the process in greater detail, along with some caveats to consider: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1155833

Red highlighting has been added to the original post.


From reading your post, I take it that it's breaking followers. Sounds like you have four choices. Live with it, see if Kahr will fix it for free, pay Kahr or a local gunsmith to do the job, or do it yourself.


If you decide to fix it yourself be very careful. Study the way the offset feed ramp is located in relation to the magazine and the angle of the portion of the feed ramp in contact with the follower. Don't do anything to change the countour of the feed ramp above where it is striking the follower. Remember the bullet nose strikes the feed ramp above where the ramp is striking the follower. Remove only the amount of metal necessary to clear the follower while maintaining the offset feed ramp relationship. Nothing more.

I used a modified 7/32 chainsaw file. I ground the smooth end of the chainsaw file off, and then smoothed and rounded the ground end so it would not gouge the barrell hood as I worked. I also put a piece of duct tape inside the top of the chamber laping it over the barrel hood to protect it against accidental file strikes. Then I worked very carefully and slowly and removed the desired amount of metal. Use lots of trial fit checks as you work to make sure you don't take off too much metal, or take off metal in the wrong place. Then I polished the feed ramp where I had filed with my Dremel. I didn't want to grind with the Dremel, because it's too easy to take off too much metal.

Again this will probably void the warrenty, if you have a warrenty in the first place. It could also ruin the barrel. Do it at your own risk.

If you aren't sure of your gunsmithing skills, it's best to get Kahr or a local gunsmith to fix it for you. Good luck.


. . .

After the PM40 broke it's first follower, I contacted Kahr and they sent me a half dozen new followers, since I had 10 magazines for it. I put a brand new follower in the magazine with the broken follower and fired one magazine of ammo.

I withdrew the empty magazine, and there on the brand new follower was a big mark where the barrel had struck it. That's when I decided something had to be done. Since I did the modification, I've put about 1,000 rounds downrange with no more broken followers.

I've still got the five spare followers that Kahr sent me with a email about how the old followers were made with an inferior plastic. Funny how those old 'defective' followers have held up since the barrel quit pounding the stuffing out of them.

ETA And some of those old followers still bear battle scars where the feed ramp had whacked them, before the trim job.

[Dyvm]

I got my PM40 about two months ago. LOVE the size and power (and I can easily pocket carry it in jeans with a nice little leather holster (if anyone is interested in what kind i'll need to find it in the car)).

Anyway, I settled in to put the requested 200 rounds through this cannon. Early on I had a few failure to return to battery (not the same as locking open on an empty mag since you could slam the back of the slide and it would RTB), but considered it to be a break in issue.

After about 200-300 rounds I had around 2 shooting sessions (I tend to shoot about 50-100 rounds a session) with near perfect operation. Then the gun started to experience more FRTB. With this, I began looking online and found this (as well as many other sites) mention of the followers. After checking my mags I discovered I had two with broken followers and one clean (all the 5 rounders) as well as the one 6 round mag. I took the broken mags apart as well as my unused 6 rounder and replaced (after checking that they were the same mold) one of the broken 5 rounders with the 6 round follower.

Next, I went to the range with the plan of testing things out but, unfortunately for everyone here, decided just to have the smith at the range see if he could polish off some of the ramp.

After dropping the gun off, I went down to the range and shot my Beretta PX4 Storm Compact (Fing LOVE this gun as well but it's way to big to conceal). Then I went home and *emailed* Kahr (service@kahr.com). I got a response within an hour or so that they were sorry and would send me two new followers or a return package so I could send the gun in to get worked on. I chose the replacement followers.

I'll let everyone know: when I get the followers; what the smith says; and how things go when I get back to using my PM40.

[magnum1007]

Trust me...just contact Kahr, tell them about the multiple broken followers, and that you have read about the feed ramp being the problem. They paid for the shipping, polished the feed ramp down a considerable amount, and had my pistol back to me in just a few days...no cost to me at all. And it works PERFECT!!! Great customer service experience...couldn't have been better, other than it never happening to begin with.

[Dyvm]

So gun in on 4-24 as well as the email to Kahr. Gun picked up today 4-26 as well as a small packet direct from Kahr (the two followers). Stopped in the range after picking up the gun. Started with a mag with broken follower... chambered the rounds and fired fine. replaced the follower and loaded the two other mags. Sent 100 rounds down range (including the 5 from the broken follower mag). Other then 3 spots of user error, everything shot extremely well. Kahr is reloaded and back in my pocket.

I have a hunting camp clean up trip next weekend, so will post if anything else comes up.

BTW, my local smith charged me $10 for the grind.