What's your opinion?

[woodman]

Hi guys,
I am new here and am considering the CW9 as a CCW so I would like your opinions. I have read some of the threads here and over at GT in the kahr club. There seems to be alot of problems with Kahr pistols and I want a pistol that is 100% reliable since it is intended to protect my life.

What I have read so far:

Magazines releasing when the should'nt
Triggers not resetting
Plating peeling off feed ramps and barrels
Reoccuring failure to feed
Reoccuring failure to eject
Light striker hits not detonating primers
Cracked frames in magazine well
Defective ejectors
Customers returning pistols multiple times for the same problem

How common are these problems?
Can the Kahr be depended on as an everyday carry gun?
If you had it to do all over again would buy a Kahr?
What else would you consider for a carry gun that is about the same size?

I hope I did'nt overwhelm you with questions I would just like to make sure I am spending my money on a good reliable pistol.

Your opinions are appreciated.
Thanks in advance

[coctailer]

100% reliability cannot be guaranteed with ANY firearm.

As for Kahr Arms pistols, I believe they are the best pistol made in the world for saving your life.

You will probably get a lot of replies saying how great Kahrs are considering this is a forum full of Kahr fans.

As for the problems you listed, I have only ever seen one chamber that had the finish flaking off.

I have never personally witnessed a Kahr fail to perform. I've shot a lot of them, and seen a ton of them shot.

I carry, depending on the day, a P45, PM9, or P380. I don't carry any other pistol, even though I own dozens.

I was pretty happy with my Ruger LCP when I carried it though.

[Jim K]

Woodman,

I own a P9 and use it as my CCW because of it's size and weight. I had reliablity issues with this pistol when it was new but it works like a dream now. You can read all about it on this forum if you check out FTF and extractor issues.

That written, I must convey the fact that I do not have an all negative view of Kahr Arms and their products. The first good thing I have to say is that they have excellent product support. I recommend that you use them if you have a problem. They are nice people. The second good thing is that the parts are affordable and readily available. The third thing is that My P9 is very easy to carry and therefore will be at hand if (God help me) I ever need it.

Now for the negative, and I mean this to be constructive. From what I've experienced on my pistol there seems to be a QC issue. If I spend near $700dollars on a pistol I expect it to function. In my opinion there should be no "break in" period to make the pistol go "bang" when the trigger is pulled. maybe the action of the pistol gets smoother after 200 rounds but it should work every time while getting to that point. If I have issues with the pistol at 190 rounds then I expect to fire another 200 rounds to make sure those issues are resolved. That takes money and time. If there are issues with my pistol then I expect the manufacturer to supply me with the technical data to make sure the pistol conforms with design Specs. I had no luck with that. I was told they do not give out that Info. With that lack of information I advise all to return their Kahr problems to them and let them sort out the problem. I fixed my pistol by the evidence of it's functionality. I do not advise others to do the same unless they like I, know what they are doing.

I wonder about the secret Specs. What's the secret? Do the specs exist?

I like my P9 now that it is fixed. I will not purchase another unless Kahr publishes all technical data to inspect, assure conformity, and maintain their products. With that information the average man should be able to maintain their weapons. I think that will only improve the good reputation of Kahr arms.

My rant boils down to:

Buy one but take advantage of Kahr's excellent product support if you have problems. Ask them to pay shipping both ways.

Good Luck, Jim K

[mx5fan]

Let's see, I had a Kel-tec pf9 and just could not stand the trigger, the recoil and the constent FTE's and FTF's, I thyn had a Bersa .380 CC and when I could find ammo, the pistol was nice enough, but again I had a lot FTE's and did not feel safe enought to protect my life. I then purchased a Kahr PM9, I have approx. 300 rounds and they have been flawless, not one FTE /FTF and it's easy enough to clean, perfect for concealed carry and I've got to say this is one fine pistol.

If you look around this forum, I think you will find that the vast majority love their Kahr's and have not had any issues with them. That's not to say that every now and then there is a Lemon or a pistol with issues...it happens to the best of the best. Guns are made to specs and within certain tolerances and while they are machined, they are also made by humans....so there can be the occasional bad gun.

If you are thinking about buying a Kahr....do it and don't look back.

They are well made, solid and a great little CCW piece.

[jocko]

No doubt Jim K, you won't be buying another kahr, for they aren't going to give you all that spec stuff that you feel you so deserve. Enjoy your P9, for it will be your last kahr. Maybe you can publish for us Smith and Wesson inside info specs etc, or HK or Sig, I bet they will send you everything you ask for???????

If I don't get my way I will take my marbles and go home, in your case it will be your P9 one and only.Your right about one thing. You do RANT alot...

and a Merry Christmas to you.

[ltxi]

Kahr makes leading edge, intelligently designed, and practical mini/micro carry weapons. That's where they started and that's what they do. There are trade-offs in everything and the price you pay here for ultra compact, ultra lightweight guns at a price one can actually afford is extended break-in/wear-in periods, sometimes less than perfect out-of-the-box 100% functionality, and the very occasional gun where all the tight tolerances just fall the wrong way and it may never be right. I have happily put up with these trades for something like my black, night sight equipped PM9 because nothing else even comes close for its functionality. And, especially within the firearms industry, Kahr's customer service is world class.

But if you don't need what Kahr's selling there may be better choices. For cheap and dead stone reliable from round one, Glocks come to mind.

[500KV]

I think most of the problems you mentioned can be attributed to the fact that Kahrs are major calibers in small packages... close tolerances with little room for error.
They are truly a quality product IMHO and customer service seems to be excellent as far as resolving the issues you refer to.

I have three, in three different calibers, and after putting several hundred rounds through them I'm as confident of them as any other top of the line handgun.

I'm convinced the more you shoot them the better they get.
Some folks have had major issues that have had indifferent outcomes but I think you'll find that most people's experience has been positive.

Welcome and good luck with your choice.

[Jim K]

No doubt Jim K, you won't be buying another kahr, for they aren't going to give you all that spec stuff that you feel you so deserve. Enjoy your P9, for it will be your last kahr. Maybe you can publish for us Smith and Wesson inside info specs etc, or HK or Sig, I bet they will send you everything you ask for???????

If I don't get my way I will take my marbles and go home, in your case it will be your P9 one and only.Your right about one thing. You do RANT alot...

and a Merry Christmas to you.
Jokko,

If getting my way means getting a firearm that works I'll surely consider another SIG, HK, CZ. I don't need technical data for a firearm unless it does not work.I think that Kahr makes a good pistol if you get one that works.

Machines are manufactured to tolerances so that if one mating part is on the high side of dimension and the hole it fits in is made to the low side of dimension then the parts still fit no matter if it is location, slide or interference. Remember Eli Whitney folks?
(interchangeable parts) Just my opinion, but Kahr owes me a firearm that works 100% right out of the box, just like my other pistols. I should not have to rub the parts together to make them fit. This ain't economics, it's engineering.

I suspect that there is a problem with QC and a little bit of data can go a long way to clear up that suspicion, unless someone is trying to hide something.

If you get a Kahr that works flawlessly, then good. That's what you paid for. If you don't then give the guys at Kahr customer service a chance. They will fix your Kahr and get a chance to catalog their problems.

A guy named billy wrote the words "You protesteth too much".

Your a smart guy Jokko, figure it out.

Best Regards, Jim K

[woodman]

Thanks for your replies. I know that the bad stories of any product are more well known that the good just because people talk about them more in order to figure out how to fix them. Most people that have something that works great will only tell a couple people because we expect to work great, but if it is a piece of junk we tell everyone. So I guess that is why I am seeing the stories of the problems.
I just left another forum that I am a member and saw another Kahr report:
Rowdy Biker Bar II (http://www.rowdybikerbar2.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86638&postcount=60)
The CW9 is still on my list.

[wagon]

Woodman: I am one of the "unlucky" who has a PM9 which did have the "plating issue". But that's is ONLY issue it has (fingers crossed -- coz nobody has a crystal ball), but Kahr has taken care of it, no question ask. (Although I do have remaining concern, but it is just something philosophical and has nothing to do with any specific Kahr guns.)

My PM9 shoots better than I can, zero jammo, zerro FTF, zero FTE... perfect to CC. Despite of what was said in the above, the PM9 remains as my primary CCW, because it is SUPER comfy to carry, it conceals very well, it shoots true.

I once had a H&K USPc, it was a PERFECT gun (correction: "my" USPc was a perfect gun): go bang everytime for 10+ years and thousands of rounds, NONE of those "cosmetic" issues nor functional issues what so ever. But, unlike the PM9, it does not fit my palm and my built, to me the USPc is still too bulky and too heavy to CC.

Always a price to pay either way we go. Good luck shopping. I have heard a lot of good things about the CW9.

(MX5fan -- sorry to hear about your Bersa380cc... you're like me in the case of my PM9, an "unlucky one" -- i.e. my 380cc has been flawless, so far, since day 1.)


Thanks for your replies. I know that the bad stories of any product are more well known that the good just because people talk about them more in order to figure out how to fix them. .

BINGO!! Very well said. Forums are for info sharing -- good or bad -- and for seeking of help from experienced fellow members.. If nothing went wrong where would "help seeking" come from?


I just left another forum that I am a member and saw another Kahr report:
Rowdy Biker Bar II (http://www.rowdybikerbar2.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86638&postcount=60)

No access?

[jocko]

Jim, ol boy that is not the statement that you said. re read your ranting post and thank you for that last sentence in your last post. Means alot to me!!!!

and may both of your feet point forward when walking so we can see really which way your going with things. This came from Billy's friend. Bob.

[woodman]

No access?
I forgot, can't get access unless you are a member. Anyway one of the members there who is a shooting instructor recently purchased the new Kahr .380 and after 200 rounds the trigger mechanism failed and now won't release the striker. He just recently send it back to Kahr so no word yet on what is wrong.

I hope nobody thinks I came here to bash Kahr, thats not the case. I think they are beautiful guns and the perfect size for what I want. I am just trying to acquire as much information about the good and bad as I can in order to make the right buying decision. I have seen nothing else that looks like it would carry and conceal as well as the Kahrs. I own a Kimber Classic Custom Target which has the 5" barrel and a highly modified Colt Combat Commander but they are both much too large and heavy to conceal under light clothing. The Colt is the lighter of the two and it is 38oz empty, 8 round of 225 gr. hollow points are going to add even more weight.
The taurus 709 slim is about the same size as the CW9 but I have no experience with Taurus and the people I know who own any have the revolvers. If Ruger ever came out with a compact version of the SR9 that may be a good choice. It has the thinnest grip of any double stack that I have ever seen but a single stack will still serve my purpose just fine.
I have owned a glock 17 which was a extremely reliable pistol but I never felt comfortable with the grip angle and of course the thickness of the glock makes them hard to conceal, even the compact glocks are thick.
Right now the CW9 is at the top of the list but I will check out other before making the final decision.

[jocko]

that kahr 380 definitely had a ouot of spec trigger bar. It has happened before.....You wn't go wrong with the cw9, it is just one hell of a great gun, quality made, just doesn't have allthe bells and whistles the PM series does, nor the added dollars either...

[Jim K]

Jim, ol boy that is not the statement that you said. re read your ranting post and thank you for that last sentence in your last post. Means alot to me!!!!

and may both of your feet point forward when walking so we can see really which way your going with things. This came from Billy's friend. Bob.
Jokko,

What's the contradiction? With the lack of Tech data on Kahr products then I advise all to send their Kahrs back at Kahr's expense. If Kahr spends enough money fixing defective product then maybe management will provide QC and fix the problems.

If Kahr provides the Tech data then it is an easy task for most people to inspect and repair their own pistols. This in turn might save Kahr a bunch of money and improve the good image of Kahr Arms. My P9 works great with 32 OZ of extractor tension. It did not work as received with 64 OZ of extractor tension. I still don't know if this conforms to Specs (or even if Specs exist). All I know is my pistol did not work and now it does. I would not ask for Specs or Tech data if my pistol worked in the first place.
I advise all to send their problem pistols back to Kahr and let them sort out the problems. (it's easier)

I maintain that that "break in" line is BS. A machine should not have to be "broken in" before it even functions. I am not writing about the smoothness of the action. I'm writing about functionality. You can say "break it in" or "it needs more rounds down range" loud and often but that dog still won't come out from under the porch. When there is a problem then that deny, deny, deny thing only infuriates the customer. You may provide a consensus of folks who bought that line but that does not make it true.

Verily, Jim K

[Jim K]

Jim, ol boy that is not the statement that you said. re read your ranting post and thank you for that last sentence in your last post. Means alot to me!!!!

and may both of your feet point forward when walking so we can see really which way your going with things. This came from Billy's friend. Bob.
His name was Shakespeare, AKA Billy.

I thought you were smart. My mistake, I should h a v e w r i t t e n s l o w l y.

Regards, Jim K

[LDM]

My two bits... and that's about what it's worth.
I also had the flakey barrel problems; X2. Third barrel is good-to-go.
Customer Service did what they were supposed to.
But Kahr could & should do a better job before it leaves the factory.
It is an elegant design with tight tolerances, putting an awful lot into a small package.
But I keep getting this vision of a "bean-counter" guiding the process by a calculated: quality control/extra finish cost vs. "acceptable" number of problems/ Customer Service cost.
Take one small example: the striker channel. No excuse for the machining debris found there from the factory. How long does it take someone to swab it out? Has anyone not found debris here?
The small amount of extra time to finish these weapons should be done.
I have said before, a Kahr needs a fluff & buff right out of the box. Maybe even a reliability job by a gunsmith. Shooting several hundred rounds will typically do the job. But this is only shifting the cost to the consumer from the manufacturer.
A Kahr is not cheap. Another $50-$100 to have a fully finished weapon would probably not deter a Kahr buyer. The ammo to "shoot it in" costs more.
The advantages of a Kahr made it worth the effort to me. I went in with eyes open and I'd do it again.
I shudder though, when I think about the average person who buys and maybe (just, maybe) shoots the 200 round break in, and never really tests the weapon with different ammo, detail strip cleaning, etc. If such a person needed the weapon, it could fail.
Stay safe.

[jocko]

Hmmm: funny Para told me I needed 500 rounds before getting excited about sending my Para Carry 9 back. At least kahr puts it in their manual for all to read and see,. and then to decide for themselves. One can print up the entire kahr manual on line before ever buying a kahr and decide then if he wants to buy a gun that they recommend 200 rounds .......99% of all kahrs don't need the rounds down rantge, but I would hate to think that oane buys a news gun of any mfg-er and never puts proper rounds down range to feel it is reliable.. I could not find any round recommendation from Para in my manual....

No doubt bean counters come into play on about any product made. I read very often of $2000 plus custom guns having to go back for adjustment. evidently they don't put 200 rounds down range to be sure of reliability or this would NEVER happen. A guy is gonna buy a gun that sometimes, will not be right, it is sad but that is what happens and no gun company is exempt from that.

darn Jim K. didn't know shakespear's name was Bob. Sorry I was probably the only one on this forum that didn't know that. And once again you refuse to read what you print. You stated u would not buy another kahr until they priovided you with the technical data. But heh, ur the man, your read Bob.. Maybe you should print alittle more slowly so you can remember what you print and not try to dance around your "printed" statements..

Have a good holiday my friend

[Jim K]

Gosh darnit golly gee whiz Jokko,

Billy Bob is someone else. C'mon down below the Mason Dixon line to meet him.

Billy is AKA William Shakespeare.

One beer for you my friend, Jim K

[jocko]

Gosh darnit golly gee whiz Jokko,

Billy Bob is someone else. C'mon down below the Mason Dixon line to meet him.

Billy is AKA William Shakespeare.

One beer for you my friend, Jim K

u always seem to skirt around your quotes. damn . W. S is still alive????:2eek::2eek:

[gunmut]

Woodman
I keep trying to read your post, but I am getting distracted by your Avitar! The full motion is just to much for me!

[jocko]

Woodman
I keep trying to read your post, but I am getting distracted by your Avitar! The full motion is just to much for me!

the best avitar I have ever seen to date. she looks like she is built like a:80:

[wagon]

LDM ... we think like twins but we're not twins :D. No doubt we share the same concerns (philosophically) on Kahr's products.

As I said before, it's almost like they shift their QA function to their customers, no doubt that Kahr will make good when issues surface, but if they value the quality mind set of "doing it right the first time and everytime", there will be MORE happy owners on top of the many they already have.


My two bits... and that's about what it's worth.
I also had the flakey barrel problems; X2. Third barrel is good-to-go.
Customer Service did what they were supposed to.
But Kahr could & should do a better job before it leaves the factory.
It is an elegant design with tight tolerances, putting an awful lot into a small package.
But I keep getting this vision of a "bean-counter" guiding the process by a calculated: quality control/extra finish cost vs. "acceptable" number of problems/ Customer Service cost.
Take one small example: the striker channel. No excuse for the machining debris found there from the factory. How long does it take someone to swab it out? Has anyone not found debris here?
The small amount of extra time to finish these weapons should be done.
I have said before, a Kahr needs a fluff & buff right out of the box. Maybe even a reliability job by a gunsmith. Shooting several hundred rounds will typically do the job. But this is only shifting the cost to the consumer from the manufacturer.
A Kahr is not cheap. Another $50-$100 to have a fully finished weapon would probably not deter a Kahr buyer. The ammo to "shoot it in" costs more.
The advantages of a Kahr made it worth the effort to me. I went in with eyes open and I'd do it again.
I shudder though, when I think about the average person who buys and maybe (just, maybe) shoots the 200 round break in, and never really tests the weapon with different ammo, detail strip cleaning, etc. If such a person needed the weapon, it could fail.
Stay safe.

[jocko]

they are playing the numbers as most every mfg-er does including gun companies. the number punchers have told them that if they take an extra 10 minutes (example of time) to do something maybe even alittle better that that cost of down time will cost far more than the chance of a certain % of the product (what ever it may be) failing and it having to come back for service. I have no doubt that all these companies produce testing equipment that is great stuff, but also this testing eqjipment is designed so as to not slow down production either, less their be more cost involved. What seems like a simple thing to us might not be and I don't think one would actually pay $100 or more to be told this gun is perfect out of the box, when indeed we feel it should be anyhow and no doubt even costing $100 more to get what you think is the perfect product does not guarantee it to be so.(a good example if the many custom $2500 1911 guns on the market that have to go back for more service) Kahr like Smith and Ruger makes great products but there will be some units that slip through the cracks and that then is where a companies warranty and service policy comes into play. If a company jacks with a consumer (again just not a gun company) then that leaves a bad taste for sure, but if a company steps up and takes care of an issue that is already out their door before being discovered, then that is a good company.

Look at ruger as a great example, their SR9 was a diseaster and had to be recalled. Today it is a good and reliable gun. Their lcp was a total diseaster and all 50,000+ had to be recalled and completly revamped. Today it is a good gun. Should have this happened, NO. but it did and the best Ruger could do once those guns were in our hands was to make a full attempt to do the right thing. I am sure ruger lost some loyal customers over this to and I am very sure they had their products hammered on the Ruger forums , exactly like we have here on the kahr forums. ruger IMO has had far more major issues with their semi's than karh ever could have dreamed of, but yet they have weathered the storm and seem from all indications to be back on track with thier customer loyalty..

Just not sure putting a dollar amount on anything surely guarantees one of complete reliability. We think it should but in actual realitiy it sometimes does not.....

I think the best advice given here and on other gun forums, if you get a lemon and you can not trouble shoot it or get the proper trouble shooting advice that many of these excellent gun forums guys can give, then box it up and send it back to the people who made it.

I did that 17 times with my 3 kel tec small auto's..

sorry about the long post. I tend to do that..

[Jim K]

u always seem to skirt around your quotes. damn . W. S is still alive????:2eek::2eek:
Try again Jokko. William Shakespeare is not alive just in case your hallucinating. He is also known as "Billy" these days, not "Billy Bob". Damn, everytime I think you may be a smart guy you prove me wrong.

On the subject of acceptable defects; how does pointing to the problems of another brand make it OK for a different manufacturer to put out defective product? Is the standard what can be gotten away with or is it excellence?

You encourage Kahr owners to do things like polish ramps and put more rounds down range when their pistol is non functional, yet you defend the lack of tech data that will make sure the pistol conforms to design specs. Inside information? BS! I stepped in that so I had to amputate my foot because the stink was so bad.

200 rounds for break in before a pistol functions is more BS. For the price asked for these pistols they should work 100% right out of the box. Yeah, I'm gonna shoot 200 rounds to make sure the pistol is reliable but if it fails during that time it needs fixing and another 200 rounds to assure reliability. Don't tell me "it just needs more rounds down range". I paid for a 1st rate pistol, that's what I should get and don't whip out that line about "tolerances". I know all about those my friend. I seriously doubt the engineer specified parts that do not fit.

Of course all this is just my opinion but my opinion counts when I purchase a firearm.



Regards, Jim K

[jocko]

Jim, calm down, it's just a gun , u get to carried away and then you tend to sway from your preachings. If it ain't perfect send it back, so often stated by you but yet you hacked you own P9 to make it work. guess the "do as I say and not as I do" doesn't hold true for you.

Never heard of William S. being called Billy, these days either, course I don't live south of the Dixon line either, .... You seem proud of that to. I admire ur tenacity.

Take alittle break, take a deep breath and then try to come back to this forum and really try to add something to one who maybe comes on here with an issue that is solveable in house instead of packing it back up as u so state but yet fail to do yourself.

Not much credability IMO. and it is just my opinion but my opinion counts also.

I guess in ur small mind that every time a round fails to do its thing it has to be the guns fault. Can't be a bad round, dirty gun, shooter error, just has to be the gun. How childish.

[Jim K]

Jim, calm down, it's just a gun , u get to carried away and then you tend to sway from your preachings. If it ain't perfect send it back, so often stated by you but yet you hacked you own P9 to make it work. guess the "do as I say and not as I do" doesn't hold true for you.

Never heard of William S. being called Billy, these days either, course I don't live south of the Dixon line either, .... You seem proud of that to. I admire ur tenacity.

Take alittle break, take a deep breath and then try to come back to this forum and really try to add something to one who maybe comes on here with an issue that is solveable in house instead of packing it back up as u so state but yet fail to do yourself.

Not much credability IMO. and it is just my opinion but my opinion counts also.

I guess in ur small mind that every time a round fails to do its thing it has to be the guns fault. Can't be a bad round, dirty gun, shooter error, just has to be the gun. How childish.
Jokko,

It's just a gun, so we should accept a self defense weapon which is not reliable? I'm not excited, I'm disappointed. Sorry if I upset you again.

I repaired my P9 with some trouble but I recommend that other people send theirs back for repair. Get the manufacturer to pay for shipping, both ways. It's easier, not that they can't do it themselves if they are inclined to. The idea is that the manufacturer will improve quality if the cost of warranty work is high enough. If the manufacturer provides maintenance data then it might be easier for the customer to do the warranty work himself. That seems to be a big leap of reason for you.

Your credibility suffers when you misspell the word. Read more and stop spreading BS.

C'mon down south. Life's good, get one.

Regards, Jim K

[jocko]

I'm just waitng for the day your add something positive to this forum. probalby won't ever come but I can hope. You still contradicted yourself, don't do as I do but do as I say. but heh your Jim K. turst me ok Jim, you don't upset me. Mostly you amuse me with your verbage which is the same ol thing time and time again..

But you have a nice holiday season and just maybe 2010 will be a better year for ol Jim K.

[PETE14]

I got a MK9 for Christmas and took it to the range this past weekend. I put around 120 rounds through it and it (at 7 yards 8 out of 10 bullseyes from a bench) is one of the most accurate guns I have ever shot. I did have a couple of failures to return to battery but realized that it was my failure to make sure that the ammo was put into the magazine tightly to the back. I was questioning whether I should have bought a PM9 instead but with the extra weight of the all SS gun the recoil was very minimal. I would trust my life with this gun. I paid alot for the gun but I feel like it was an excellent investment.

[jocko]

u can alwlays buy a PM9 later on, congrats on such a nice gun and your MK will even get smoother with more rounds down range. I know that irritates a certain person when I say that but it is a proven fact from so many posters of new kahrs or for that matter new semi's in general that the gun just seems to smooth out after so many rounds have went through it.

[PETE14]

I kind of thought that the 200 round rule was ridiculous at first but the more I thought about it I see it as a huge bonus to get familiar with the gun. When I bought my Glock I bet I didn't put more than a box through it and I have had it for 19 years and it still has not had more than 200 through it. I think it definately helps you get familiar with the gun plus I was way more accurate the more I shot with it.

[jocko]

IMO, if your gonna carry any gun, it needs to be shot more than 50 rounds, kahr set thier manual to state 200. for some (Jim K especially) that may be over kill, bu they picked a number that I feel one should be shooting out of any gun that they intend to carry for defense purposes, or for that matter to keep in house. They do smooth out with more rounds down range, not just kahr's. If 50 rounds floats one boat and it was reliable, then the decisionis yours to make. 200 does not make any gun flawless either, nor does 500 or 1000. Other things can cause issues in a gun that are not totally gun related. Bad ammo, dirty gun (even though new ) should be cleaned before taking it out, ...shooter error. One has to get used to every guns feel, they are all different. My P380 in my hand feels totally different than my PM9 and my g19 yet even different. Mishandle a P380 or a Ruger lcp which is easy to do and you will get an issue sometimes that the bigger guns dont tend to give. YMMV.

[jfrey]

I personally don't see the problem with the 200 rnd. break in. A certain high end 1911 builder makes pistols that take 500 rounds to get his pistols to loosen up a little and shoot well. I don't know that he advertises that fact, but everyone I know who shoots one will tell you the same thing.

Heck 200 rnds. is just a good Sunday afternoon fun shoot for me. I just wish the CW series came with 3 mags instead of one. I like to have at least 4 or 5 mags for each of my semi-autos.

[Vinikahr]

When you consider all in all Kahr are not as bad when compare to their competition Rohrbaugh.

From their catalog (http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/downloads/owners_manual.pdf):

"We believe that the design choices we have made reflect the priorities appropriate
to a self-defense weapon. To minimize size and weight, we have chosen
basic materials that are both strong enough to insure proper operation, yet still
light. One respect in which these choices will affect you, the owner, will be in
the need to periodically replace the pistol’s recoil spring (recommended after 200
rounds), as the force of recoil of a 9mm parabellum cartridge in a pistol with this
total weight results in wear on the recoil spring. Another aspect to realize is that
the “perceived” force of recoil of the Rohrbaugh pistol will be greater than in a
full size semi-automatic. Reducing the “mass” of the pistol results in greater
perceived recoil. We don’t see this as a problem, as the pistol is designed for
self-defense, not comfort on a target range."

Believing that if you pay over $1k for firearm it should be more durable.

[Gottabkiddin]

I think most of the problems you mentioned can be attributed to the fact that Kahrs are major calibers in small packages... close tolerances with little room for error.

IMO, that statement is spot on!

People need to take that into consideration when selecting a CC pistol.