UPDATE Disappointed with CM9...:-(

[Bear549]

I really love the CM9 until I try shooting CCI 124gr ammo. The gun will not seem to shoot this ammo without stoving 1-2 timed over a box of 50. I have shot 200 rounds of 124gr stub nose without one issue. I am just disappointed that I feel a gun of this price should shot any factory ammo without issues. A Glock it is not!

[TheTman]

What's so great about CCI ammo that you have to shoot it? Buy something else and move on. I never have been that crazy about it with those aluminum cases. WWB in the value pack is very inexpensive in 9mm at Wally Worlds, and runs fine in most Kahrs.
Welcome to Kahrtalk btw. Hope thats the only problem you have with your pistol. A lot of semi's just don't want to work with certain ammo. Kahr would just tell you to try another brand. At least thats what they told me when I had an ammo question.

[bonjorno2]

^^ sorry you are having stove pipes with that ammo... try having another shooter put a box or two down range and see if they can re-create the issue!

[Barth]

Might try polishing the feed ramp.
My MK40 Elite reliably eats anything I feed it.
And It particularly likes Speer and Winchester 180 grain for accuracy.

[MikeG]

When my S&W 4513 ripped the rim off one of those aluminum cases and left the rest for me to extract I swore I'd never buy it again. I'd sooner shoot Wolf. WWB has never been a problem though

[heeler]

Since I bought 500 rounds of 9mm Blazer Aluminum for $89.99 on a sleeper GunBroker bid I certainly hope my PM9 can handle them.
Have other out there in Kharsville had issues with these aluminum cased rounds?
So far my PM9 has gobbled up every brand I feed it.
Guess I will give these a try soon and easily sell them if they dont.
I certainly wont lose any money that's for sure.

[Bear549]

Thanks for the support and comments. I do love the gun, the size, the shoot ability, the constuction and even the looks. It is not that I need it to shoot CCI and in fact I do really shoot it, but when I find ammo on sale I like to buy it. It just disappoints me to have this issue. A firearm to me is one that shoots correctly all the time and I get this feeling that I cannot trust it to protect me. I will try different ammo and only purchased 200 rounds of CCI, so no great loss. Just in search of possible answers.

[Rainman48314]

Since I bought 500 rounds of 9mm Blazer Aluminum for $89.99 on a sleeper GunBroker bid I certainly hope my PM9 can handle them.
Have other out there in Kharsville had issues with these aluminum cased rounds?
So far my PM9 has gobbled up every brand I feed it.
Guess I will give these a try soon and easily sell them if they dont.
I certainly wont lose any money that's for sure.I once had a batch of 300 rounds of Seller & Belliot in 380 Auto which malfunctioned at the rate of 6-7 per 50. The same stuff worked well in 9mm in two other guns. I made lemonaide outta the lemons. Turned it into great training ammo. You gotta learn to clear jams. Not saying you can't, but is there such a thing as too much practice?

Rainman

[Rainman48314]

I really love the CM9 until I try shooting CCI 124gr ammo. The gun will not seem to shoot this ammo without stoving 1-2 timed over a box of 50. I have shot 200 rounds of 124gr stub nose without one issue. I am just disappointed that I feel a gun of this price should shot any factory ammo without issues. A Glock it is not!
There are pros and cons to being, or not being, a Glock.

[slowpoke]

When my S&W 4513 ripped the rim off one of those aluminum cases and left the rest for me to extract I swore I'd never buy it again. I'd sooner shoot Wolf. WWB has never been a problem though
Same thing happened to me with a Beretta 92 10 or 15 years ago.

[Girphoto]

I really love the CM9 until I try shooting CCI 124gr ammo. The gun will not seem to shoot this ammo without stoving 1-2 timed over a box of 50. I have shot 200 rounds of 124gr stub nose without one issue. I am just disappointed that I feel a gun of this price should shot any factory ammo without issues. A Glock it is not!

Well, I have a PM9, about 700 rd's of CCI Aluminum through it with out a single problem, NONE.
Did you follow the advice of the group to field strip, clean and well oil (the gun that is) before shooting it.
These little guns make you have a firm grip, you can not limp wrist it.

I do not understand your statement " I feel a gun of this price should shot any factory ammo without issues." Are you saying that it is a less-expensive gun and therefore it should have no problems or that it is an expensive (I DO NOT THINK SO) gun and it should have no problems.
Anyway, try different ammo and a god clean and oil.

[Thunder71]

I have a CZ P-01 that HATES Remington UMC ammo, but fires everything else I have tried just fine. The solution? I don't use UMC when shooting it at the range and of course don't use it for defense ammo.

Guns like Glock and XD/XDM's are built with a little more tolerance, the Kahr is tight. Just one of the trade-offs. Also keep in mind that there is a very steep feed ramp, any minor variation of the bullet can have dramatic results.

That said, my PM9 has eaten everything I've fed it, never once had a single issue with it - not one.

Your CM9 isn't the only gun that can be picky with ammo, it happens across the board, find something it likes and enjoy it - no reason to write it off because it doesn't feed one kind of ammo.

[Dietrich]

I really love the CM9 until I try shooting CCI 124gr ammo. The gun will not seem to shoot this ammo without stoving 1-2 timed over a box of 50. I have shot 200 rounds of 124gr stub nose without one issue. I am just disappointed that I feel a gun of this price should shot any factory ammo without issues. A Glock it is not!

I have a Glock 30 that doesnt like Winchester T series 230 grain +P.Everything else I`ve fed it goes through it like crap through a goose.Corbon,Remington GS,Speer Gold Dot,Wichester White Box,it eats it all.Simple solution for me was to stop loading the gun with the T series ammo.If your gun functions well with other ammunition,then just use that.

[Scimmia]

Most of the time, the smaller the gun, the more picky it is on ammo. The designers have to make some compromises to reduce size, and a steeper feed ramp and shorter chamber seem to be a couple of common ones.

[TheTman]

My Beretta Cougar is the only semi auto I have that has ate EVERYTHING I've fed it without a problem of any kind. My Springfield 1911 is the most finicky, but I need to have some work done on it, most of it is still as it came from the factory. The Kahrs are pretty good I did try one box of CCI and it didn't like them very much, in the CW40 which has been pretty reliable and my EDC. The CW45 is starting to share time with the CW40, but I want to get another couple hundred .45 rounds down range before it replaces the .40 as my EDC.

[Bear549]

Once again, thank you for all of the comments. I am very picky about keeping a gun clean and using proper lubricant. This is just my first gun that has been picky about ammo with the exception of a .22 cal that I think are all picky. It is just a little frustrating knowing that there are other CM and PM's out there that do not have this problem. I do believe that the CCi 124gr are longer in length and which is probably the issue. The stub nose hand loads that I have been shooting work great. Maybe I should start considering 115gr, but I like to shot heavier lead to keep the shots above point of aim. I am starting to realize that I am asking a lot out of a small gun and there needs to be sacrifices. I plan to stop and buy some different types of ammo before my next range visit, just to see what shoots and what does not. I need to also start testing some defensive ammo as well. I am not giving up or throwing in the towel on this gun just yet. I do like it the best out of all the other guns in it's class.

[les strat]

For the range, my CM9 has done well on a diet of WWB and Win PDX-1 +P for carry. I always run a few of those through at the range as well.

[Thunder71]

I found some Winchester White Box 147gr JHP at Wal Mart that seems to cycle really well through my PM9, inexpensive as well.

[Longitude Zero]

I have never fired a gun yet that did not have its ammo preferences. Even with Glocks my 45 likes Federal (accurate) an ddoes not like Remingtion (cant hit crap)

Find out what it shoots well and use that.

[RogerP9fan]

Don't forget...by far, the most common cause of stovepipes is limpwristing or not holding the gun tight enough.

[mr surveyor]

stove pipes in small framed, modereate powered handguns can often be traced to "limp wristing". More of the small, lightweight .380 chambered pistols have been returned to the factories due to this, and returned to the owners with little explaination other than "cleaned and live fire tested-good" ... only to have the owner experience the same issue and sell/trade the gun and spread the word it was a POS.

Not saying that limp wristing is the case here, and I'm certainly not going to bat for aluminum cased ammo (definately not steel cased commie crap), but it could possibly be something to check. First, I would shoot at least a couple hundred rounds of brass.....and CCI does make "lower cost" brass ammo as well as the aluminum. If the brass works, you've found the initial culprit. If another experienced shooter can shoot the CCI aluminum with no issues, again, problem isolated. I would start with another shooter with the aluminum, then try the brass. If you still experience a problem with brass, have the other shooter give it a try.

It doesn't matter how experienced a shooter you are with full sized handguns, if you haven't had a good bit of experience with the micro pistols you can still experience problems. Most of us that jumped on the micro .380's 10+ years ago had to "adjust".

Lastly, if the brass works out, I'd bet that after 300-400 rounds of decent performance with brass, the CCI aluminum will magically work too:)


surv

[cw45fan]

Don't forget...by far, the most common cause of stovepipes is limpwristing or not holding the gun tight enough.

+1 Etc... I've found I need to hold any of the micros really, really, really tight compared with how I hold most other guns in order to get excellent results with everything... function and accuracy. They're a different breed.

[Bear549]

stove pipes in small framed, modereate powered handguns can often be traced to "limp wristing". More of the small, lightweight .380 chambered pistols have been returned to the factories due to this, and returned to the owners with little explaination other than "cleaned and live fire tested-good" ... only to have the owner experience the same issue and sell/trade the gun and spread the word it was a POS.

Not saying that limp wristing is the case here, and I'm certainly not going to bat for aluminum cased ammo (definately not steel cased commie crap), but it could possibly be something to check. First, I would shoot at least a couple hundred rounds of brass.....and CCI does make "lower cost" brass ammo as well as the aluminum. If the brass works, you've found the initial culprit. If another experienced shooter can shoot the CCI aluminum with no issues, again, problem isolated. I would start with another shooter with the aluminum, then try the brass. If you still experience a problem with brass, have the other shooter give it a try.

It doesn't matter how experienced a shooter you are with full sized handguns, if you haven't had a good bit of experience with the micro pistols you can still experience problems. Most of us that jumped on the micro .380's 10+ years ago had to "adjust".

Lastly, if the brass works out, I'd bet that after 300-400 rounds of decent performance with brass, the CCI aluminum will magically work too:)


surv

I am and have taken this into consideration to a point where I am really holding the gun as tight as I can. I am not going to say that is not the case, but I feel if it where it would happen more often. I only have the issue on the 2nd or 3rd round, which led me to believe that it is something with the mag design. I have modified the followers so they do not catch on the mag release and I still had the issue. However when inspecting the followers after my last shooting, they had gouges on them to where it looked like they were still hitting the mag release. I sanded them down farther now, but have not had a chance to test it again. I plan to keep testing with different ammo and just find something that works for me and stick with it. With my luck though, it will be the $30 a box stuff.... So far I am finding out that the stub nosed ammo works fine.

[Bear549]

Went to the range today. Shot 50 rounds of American Eagle 124gr no issues. Shot 50 rounds of CCI Blazer 124gr and had one stove pipe. Shot another 50 rounds of American Eagle 124gr no issues. For some reason, the CCi just will not run 100% so I guess I will just stay away from it. I still like this firearm and I am going to stick with it. Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

[mightymouse]

Any good firearm should BE 100% with any quality ammo and good maintenance. I shot my cm9 left, weak, handed, that's one handed, for the first 4-500 and never had a stove pipe. I'm thinking you might have a really tight gun and things will clear up with more rounds. Keep feeding it and I bet it becomes ol' reliable real soon. I have to buy what ever is on sale and so far mine shows no preference. Keep us posted. I know I can't sleep at night when my firearms are malfunctioning.

[wyntrout]

A good EDC should be an all-aspect shooter. If you can't fire it one-handed or kind of "limp-wristed", it could easily fail you when you need it. You won't always have the time to act like you're shooting paper... nice two-handed grip and all.

When I first got my PM45, after the bevel was added to let it chamber a round from the approved locked back slide, etc., I could hold the pistol with either hand... really loose and let the muzzle rise with recoil... without any problems. After a trip to correct the trigger not resetting properly, they changed the barrel and the slide among other things and I couldn't get it to not jam with both hands and the stiffest, straightest-armed grip possible. It was kind of like "limp wristing" but no way in hell was it that. I got a new slide to replace the very lightly engraved one and then later a new frame after the pistol started destroying magazines. Then it started firing without problem with either single hand or a really loose two-handed grip. Now I'm quite happy with it because I know it will fire as long as I can pull the trigger. My other Kahrs are like that, too, though you would expect the PM45 and P380 to be less forgiving.

Oh, and my thumb never touches the slide release... the right one is covered by the left one, well away from the lever.

Sometimes... it might be "limp wristing", but I think a lot of the times something's wrong with the gun. Your EDC shouldn't be so hard to fire without jamming. In a critical situation, you might not get everything just right and have problems.

Wynn:)

[OldLincoln]

I don't recall how many rounds have been through that gun, but don't fret about the CCI until you have several hundred. My PM9 didn't like any hollow point for a few hundred rounds. I didn't consider that a problem because I understood the break in process.

I did take a good look to see just what was breaking in and when cleaning I did the following. I saw the wear points especially lube point 6 and reassembled the gun minus the recoil spring. Then I walked the slide through the recoil action inch by inch and saw how the barrel tilts from the barrel hood rubbing the slide right where it was marred up. I examined the top front of the barrel hood and saw the really sharp ridge that was cutting into the slide.

I used a metal fingernail file to smooth out the hood without over rounding that edge. Then I polished the dickens out of lube point 6 and rubbed my TW25 into it several times. I repeated the walk through again and it felt like silk - super smooth.

Encouraged by that I walked it through with a loaded mag and saw how the round pops up hitting the inside top of the chamber. I polished that next rubbing lube into it also. Same thing with the feed ramp.

Funny thing, by the time I finished all this the action was as smooth as my 1911 which is something. What I had done is what happens through the break-in process, just skipped over all those additional rounds.

Hollow points fed fine after that and FMJ stayed excellent. No more stove pipes and all was well.

I had further trouble shooting my carry ammo of choice Federal HST +P 147gn. I went through a lot with the mags on that one and the tips here should fix that also. Now it shoots whatever I want and I can shoot it from either/both hands strong or weak grip and love it.

What I did amounts to a "fluff & buff" service offered by a company whose name I forget for $300. Now that I know how I wish I could save others the ammo and aggravation of the break-in woes. Still need to put the ammo through it but you would do it with a smile having fun.

[rjt123]

I have never fired a gun yet that did not have its ammo preferences. Even with Glocks my 45 likes Federal (accurate) an ddoes not like Remingtion (cant hit crap)

Find out what it shoots well and use that.

+1 on that. For whatever reason my Glock 36 (single stack .45 ACP) doesn't like WWB. Could count on at least one FTF/FTE from each box.

I personally have had no trouble with the CCI Blazer aluminum case ammo. It's cheap, it feeds properly in all my guns, and it always goes BANG. All of which makes it my range round of choice. But YMMV, of course.

[Rotorflyr]

Shot a 9mm HK USP that wouldn't shoot CCI aluminium worth a damn, choked on it constantly. WWB, Rem UMC, American Eagle, S&B etc. all ran fine.

Shot a 45cal Para Ord that would eat anything and everything EXCEPT Rem UMC.

Shot a Taurus PT-145 that did't skip a beat on any ammo (though I honestly don't recall shooting CCI aluminium outta it)

MrsFlyr shot a Taurus 9mm Pt-111 that didn't like S&B but ran fine on everything else....

If you shoot a pistol that works on 99.9% if ammo brands out there, don't sweat it over the 0.1% it doesn't like.

[JFootin]

Excellent post, OldLincoln!

[Phooey]

What I did amounts to a "fluff & buff" service offered by a company whose name I forget for $300. .

If you ever remember the name of the company that did the "fluff and buff" I would appreciate it! Then maybe mine would look like JFootin's snazzy unit and shoot without a glitch!:D

[OldLincoln]

"Cylinder and Slide" I think this item is mainly internals, not making the slide mirror finish although they may offer that also.

[gb6491]

If you ever remember the name of the company that did the "fluff and buff" I would appreciate it! Then maybe mine would look like JFootin's snazzy unit and shoot without a glitch!:D

"Cylinder and Slide" I think this item is mainly internals, not making the slide mirror finish although they may offer that also.
Phooey,
Customized Creationz will do the slide polishing for you:
http://www.customizedcreationz.com/home.html

Someday, I'd like to have them do some engraving for me.

Regards,
Greg