I had to shoot

[Dietrich]

I spent the Christmas holiday in a remote fishing village in North Carolina that is the homeplace of my wife and her family.I was walking one of our Daschunds in my in-law`s back yard when a Chesapeke Retriever charged us.I knew the dog.It had a history of killing small pets and has bitten two people including a child.The dog is usually kept in an enclosure but gets out on occasion and wreaks havoc.Its` owner owns the fish house in this small town and nobody wants to make these people angry,especially the wife, who has an army of flying monkeys if you get my drift.
Anyway the dog made a beeline for my beloved Maggie who escaped into the crawlspace under the house.The Chessie couldn`t get through the small hole but stayed there barking and snarling despite my yelling and throwing anything I could lay my hands on at it.Eventually I must have made him mad because he turned his attention to me and started to advance with his hackles raised.Bad mistake.I dropped that bastard with one shot from my PM9.The owners wife has threatened to sue.I told her to go to hell.I hate that I had to do this thing but I was given no choice.

[REACT]

Wow, that's too bad that you had to kill a dog, but the owner of the dog made that decision for you. They negligently allowed their dog to roam free to do whatever it wanted to do and you reacted accordingly. I'm glad you’re safe and your little dog too. I have two Dachshunds (great dogs) and would have done the same thing.

Let the witch sue. She has an obligation to control her dog on her property. If the dog is a known menace around the neighborhood and it was on your property (or somewhere you had a legal right to be) wreaking havoc then you have the right to protect yourself and your property including the safety of your dog.

If she sues, countersue for...mental stress or something for the maximum allowable. You may not win, but it may discourage her from going forward with her lawsuit. If she sues anyway, maybe you can be compensated for your time. I doubt it, but it’s worth a shot since it will be a small claims court action anyway. Bullies like her only back down when confronted with like pressure. If you don’t stand up to her, the lack of action will only empower her more.

Again, I’m glad you and your dog are both safe.

[pacific nw guy]

I wonder at times if the fact that I carry a gun might open me up to using it in a situation I may not have "needed" to.

You are asking for honest rebuttals by posting this on line and that is the question that immediately comes to mind.

What you wrote leaves too many opportunities to make assumptions and without being there and seeing what happened first hand I wont attempt to draw any right or wrong conclusions.

I will say if her dog was off the leash as you describe she is in the wrong, but if she decides to sue she probably can. Whether or not she will win who knows but it will cost you some money to defend yourself.

[Dietrich]

I wonder at times if the fact that I carry a gun might open me up to using it in a situation I may not have "needed" to.

You are asking for honest rebuttals by posting this on line and that is the question that immediately comes to mind.

What you wrote leaves too many opportunities to make assumptions and without being there and seeing what happened first hand I wont attempt to draw any right or wrong conclusions.

I will say if her dog was off the leash as you describe she is in the wrong, but if she decides to sue she probably can. Whether or not she will win who knows but it will cost you some money to defend yourself.

The sheriff`s dept.was called before I ever made the shot.Response time was 35 minutes.Like I said,this area is remote.I wasn`t about to stand there and let this dog tear a hole in me or anyone else.There is a leash law in the county that this occured in and these people were in violation of it again.Let me further state that I am a dog lover.I contribute to the animal shelter where I live and to the SPCA.The deputy who finally showed up said that he would talk to the owners and that was the last I`ve heard.If she wants to sue,that may be her right,but she`s not the only one with legal representation at her disposal.If I were faced with the same circumstances,I would react the same way.

[Ol'coot]

IMHO the decision made to use deadly force is only acceptable when your or another person is in harms way unless action is taken. In the same circumstance I would have probably made the same decision as I firmly believe the dog's owners are responsible to make sure that me or my dog is not in any danger from their animal at anytime. Being a dog owner myself, I am so sorry the Chesapeake Retriever had to be dispatched, but much better an outcome that reading another story of a person be killed or mauled by a dog. I am a dog owner and take much care to ensure that I know where my dog is all the time and in my control when outside. If I had an animal that had any history at all of attacking other dogs or people I would not have waited on it to happen again but would have put the animal down myself before it harmed anything else, worst case a small child or elderly person not able to defend themselves.

Dietrich,

I hope that all works out well for you after this incident, but the court system and trial lawyers don't give a damn about what is right only how much they can profit form this type of incident.

[pacific nw guy]

The sheriff`s dept.was called before I ever made the shot.Response time was 35 minutes.Like I said,this area is remote.I wasn`t about to stand there and let this dog tear a hole in me or anyone else.There is a leash law in the county that this occured in and these people were in violation of it again.Let me further state that I am a dog lover.I contribute to the animal shelter where I live and to the SPCA.The deputy who finally showed up said that he would talk to the owners and that was the last I`ve heard.If she wants to sue,that may be her right,but she`s not the only one with legal representation at her disposal.If I were faced with the same circumstances,I would react the same way.

sorry to ask but you state that you had the time to call the sheriff's dept. This point leads me to believe there is more "time" available in this situation. Initially I read this as mad dog charges dog, changes direction and goes towards a human with reckless abandon, now somewhere in that scenario there was time to call the sheriffs office with what I will assume, the time to wait for them to arrive if they would have been there sooner than 35 minutes later.

I was not there and my first response to your post was a question I would ask myself in the same situation.

Hopefully the woman, who considering the dog was loose, is completely in the wrong comes to her senses and actually offers you the apology.

[jocko]

I have never had to use a gun in defense of a dog. a dog onwer myself, I feel I know when the agression is going to go to the next stage. I walk 4 miles every day in teh coutnry and come across barking growlng dogs all the tiem. None has ever tried to attack me, they have threatened, but again I might bein their territory to, I do not know that. I have stated before, that I willgive a dog the first bite, thena fter that he is bought and paid for. alot easier to convince a judge or jry when bite marks or torn clothing is evident.

Not saying you are wrong Deitrich, just that I would not want to be in your shoes over this either. A killed dog owner sometimes has ways of gertting even without the law being involved....

I owned a sporting good business for over 40 years andone time I caught a young boy maybe 16 stealing a holster from me. Caught him outside the business and confronted him. He gave backthe holster, that night I had a brock through my plate glass window at a cost of over $400 for replacement. I knew it was payback but could not prove it..

Point, set, match....

[Dietrich]

sorry to ask but you state that you had the time to call the sheriff's dept. This point leads me to believe there is more "time" available in this situation. Initially I read this as mad dog charges dog, changes direction and goes towards a human with reckless abandon, now somewhere in that scenario there was time to call the sheriffs office with what I will assume, the time to wait for them to arrive if they would have been there sooner than 35 minutes later.

I was not there and my first response to your post was a question I would ask myself in the same situation.

Hopefully the woman, who considering the dog was loose, is completely in the wrong comes to her senses and actually offers you the apology.
I didn`t call the sheriffs dept..My mother in law did when she heard me yelling and cursing and saw what was going on.The whole incident was over with in less than two minutes.But perhaps you`re right.Maybe I should have turned tail and ran for the house,leaving my dog and the neighbors to fend for themselves and their pets as well. Who knows? I might have outrun the dog.Yep,in retrospect,that`s what I should have done.Too bad I didn`t have the convenience of time to make that decision.

[mr surveyor]

in my neck of the woods this whole situation would have been a non issue, particularly in a rural setting. Whether or not the animal in question has a "history" or not, if it's on another person's property, showing signs of agression, it's apt to "disappear" with nothing ever said. Most of us value our pets, but also respect other's rights to enjoy their personal property (and personal safety). A few years ago one of my best friends had a couple of his pet dogs get excited one day and turn "ferral" on another neighbor's newborn donkey (apparantly from his rather expensive collection). Upon being notified by the owner of the donkeys my friend immediately "dispatched" both of his pet dogs. Once an animal has attacked the odds are they never lose the desire to show their agression, and someone is apt to get hurt.

I don't normally comment on these type situations, since they are normally very subjective in nature, but this one to me is very easy to understand. The only thing I may have done differently was to make the "corpse" just silently disappear. I love animals as well as the next person, but in my opinion dogs are NOT "people too".

surv

[pacific nw guy]

I didn`t call the sheriffs dept..My mother in law did when she heard me yelling and cursing and saw what was going on.The whole incident was over with in less than two minutes.But perhaps you`re right.Maybe I should have turned tail and ran for the house,leaving my dog and the neighbors to fend for themselves and their pets as well. Who knows? I might have outrun the dog.Yep,in retrospect,that`s what I should have done.Too bad I didn`t have the convenience of time to make that decision.

you brought this situation to a public forum to which I posed a few questions for you. This response, in my opinion, validates my initial point "I wonder at times if the fact that I carry a gun might open me up to using it in a situation I may not have "needed" to".

You stated your dog was safe. I am not fully convinced you were in harm's way, or to a point where the dog should have been killed or shot. Yeah you had the "right" to shoot the dog as it was off the leash and being aggressive but I would venture a guess that if you were not carrying a gun you would have found another way to control the situation.

[Dietrich]

you brought this situation to a public forum to which I posed a few questions for you. This response, in my opinion, validates my initial point "I wonder at times if the fact that I carry a gun might open me up to using it in a situation I may not have "needed" to".

You stated your dog was safe. I am not fully convinced you were in harm's way, or to a point where the dog should have been killed or shot. Yeah you had the "right" to shoot the dog as it was off the leash and being aggressive but I would venture a guess that if you were not carrying a gun you would have found another way to control the situation.
I found myself in a dangerous situation,confronted by a dangerous animal that was being aggressive and I was in fear for my well being.I did nothing to invite this situation and I made the decision to shoot to defend myself.The alternative was bleak at best as I didn`t think the dog was in a mood to negotiate.If I thought that I could have run him off by other means I would have been glad to have done that but yelling and throwing things at him did no good.He was advancing on me and I knew if I tried to run he would have been on me before I went 10 feet.I guess it was one of those things where you really had to be there.And by the way,the deputy who investigsted thought that I was justified in shooting.

[jocko]

a dog off the lease is absolultely no right to shoot it. No way will that fly anywhere.

[zena]

Ah, Dietrich. So sorry that had to happen on your holiday. It's hard enough to deal with the in-laws never mind a rampaging dog. Are you sure the dog was not channeling the mother-in-law? (If humor wasn't appropriate here, accept my apology.) It sounds to me like the neighbor left for you to do what they should have done several bites ago. I do lots of rescue and foster work with dogs, especially the "scarier" breeds (rotties and pitbulls) and have found that once a dog of ANY breed has "fun" chasing prey and killing, they need to either be in double-triple lock down or put down. Hope you hear no more from the neighbor on this one.

[Chief Joseph]

I didn`t call the sheriffs dept..My mother in law did when she heard me yelling and cursing and saw what was going on.The whole incident was over with in less than two minutes.But perhaps you`re right.Maybe I should have turned tail and ran for the house,leaving my dog and the neighbors to fend for themselves and their pets as well. Who knows? I might have outrun the dog.Yep,in retrospect,that`s what I should have done.Too bad I didn`t have the convenience of time to make that decision.

Exactly what I was thinking, I'm sorry to ask, did he read the first post at all? People shouldn't post unless they have read and if not understood, reread before posting something that wasn't there in the first place. One of the many reasons I wanted a conceal carry permit was because on 3 occasions in the last year and a half, people on the next street over have 2 pitbulls that have gotten loose. The first time was on a Saturday morning when the Sheriffs deputies knocked on our door telling us they had trapped them in our backyard. We watched the whole thing through our windows. They had to taser the male 2 times and he told us if the last one hadn't of worked, they'd have shot him. They have gotten loose on 2 other occasions and made it down our street with me and the neighbors calling 911 again. I have a child and my next door neighbor has a daycare. I will not hesitate to put any one of those pitbulls down if they in any way threaten my child, period. And I wouldn't give a damn what anyone thought. Especially the bleeding heart dog lovers.

[n0igu]

Dietrich,

The only thing you did different than I would have is you took too much time. I had the same trouble a few years back with a neighbor that thought he had the right to run his dogs on my acreage. the problem is they chased and bit my pets. I went over and informed him that they would be shot if I saw them there, I also notified the local sherrif. three weeks later here came the big male and the 12 ga stopped him before the smil left his face. I was nicce and delivered him to their front door. Never had another problem.

[Chief Joseph]

you brought this situation to a public forum to which I posed a few questions for you. This response, in my opinion, validates my initial point "I wonder at times if the fact that I carry a gun might open me up to using it in a situation I may not have "needed" to".

You stated your dog was safe. I am not fully convinced you were in harm's way, or to a point where the dog should have been killed or shot. Yeah you had the "right" to shoot the dog as it was off the leash and being aggressive but I would venture a guess that if you were not carrying a gun you would have found another way to control the situation.

I don't think it validates your point at all. It's pretty obvious he was in the right and I'd have done the exact same thing. I've discovered through the years that dog owners have no common sense about their dogs. If they growl, bite, bark or charge, all you get from a dog owner is "he's a good dog and wouldn't hurt a fly" it's all crap. I was charged by a dog leashed up to a walk rail in front of the post office a few years ago. He charged at full speed, growling and barking. I damn near fell jumping out of his way. I stood there heart pounding when the woman who owned him came out of the post office with her little one in a stroller. When she started to untie him I told her what happened, and her typical response, "he wouldn't hurt anyone" I got so pissed I cussed her up one side and down another, and I yelled. She was red faced and scared. When I was done I said now you know how I felt, and don't worry, I wouldn't hurt a fly.

[Dietrich]

Exactly what I was thinking, I'm sorry to ask, did he read the first post at all? People shouldn't post unless they have read and if not understood, reread before posting something that wasn't there in the first place. One of the many reasons I wanted a conceal carry permit was because on 3 occasions in the last year and a half, people on the next street over have 2 pitbulls that have gotten loose. The first time was on a Saturday morning when the Sheriffs deputies knocked on our door telling us they had trapped them in our backyard. We watched the whole thing through our windows. They had to taser the male 2 times and he told us if the last one hadn't of worked, they'd have shot him. They have gotten loose on 2 other occasions and made it down our street with me and the neighbors calling 911 again. I have a child and my next door neighbor has a daycare. I will not hesitate to put any one of those pitbulls down if they in any way threaten my child, period. And I wouldn't give a damn what anyone thought. Especially the bleeding heart dog lovers.
Easy Chief,Easy.I`m a dog lover and I wish that it had never happened but it did.I`m ready to face whatever comes as a result of my actions because I was in the right.There`s nothing in my script that says "Dietrich bleeds" so I`ll just have to wait and see what happens.

[ltxi]

Deitrich, my dogs are my kids. I wouldn't hesitate for a second if one was seriously threatened by anything or anyone and wouldn't waited as long as you did. Sorry you had to have your holiday negatively affected but appropriate defense of you and yours is the reason you carry a gun in the first place. Just be glad you had the foresight to have the appropriate tool on hand to fix the problem and that the bg wasn't human.

[500KV]

Deitrich, my dogs are my kids. I wouldn't hesitate for a second if one was seriously threatened by anything or anyone and wouldn't waited as long as you did. Sorry you had to have your holiday negatively affected but appropriate defense of you and yours is the reason you carry a gun in the first place. Just be glad you had the foresight to have the appropriate tool on hand to fix the problem and that the bg wasn't human.
Absolutely lt.
The owner is very fortunate that the dog didn't bite you.
Then she would have had to lawyer-up for sure.

[medezyner]

Sorry to hear you had to deal with putting down a dog in this situation. Kinda takes the wind out of peace, joy & happiness during the holidays. I think most everyone in this forum realizes that as CCW holders the decisions we make using deadly force get viewed under a microscope. Those decisions come fast and hard and until I’m walking in your shoes, I’m not going to second-guess your actions. I was a proud owner of a 125 pound German Shepherd that was a complete ***** cat. Our family loved that dog, he was a proud family protector and he loved people. BUT I wouldn’t have hesitated for one minute to put him down if he did bodily harm to one of my neighbors. Oh ya, there may be all kinds of circumstances that need to be considered, but they are animals no matter how human we want them to be.

[pacific nw guy]

I asked a question, if you didn't have a gun would the situation have found another opportunity to save yourself from harm. As I also stated I have asked myself the question whether or not carrying a gun would lead me to use it at a time I may not have needed to.

You never answered that question, maybe you can not but it is without a doubt something to ponder.

[Dietrich]

Excuse me,but I thought I had answered your question.Maybe this will clarify things.No. As far as your question to yourself,I wouldn`t presume to know the answer.

[pacific nw guy]

Excuse me,but I thought I had answered your question.Maybe this will clarify things.No. As far as your question to yourself,I wouldn`t presume to know the answer.

mine is hypothetical, one where I am working to realize the responsibility of owning and carrying a gun, thus since I have not been in a situation that would answer the question I can not at this time answer it.

I asked you because you were in the type of situation i have thought about, one where a gun may not have been the answer but was used because it was an option.

You answered NO, I appreciate your honesty.

[jocko]

WE CAN ALL CONJECTURE AS TO WHAT WE WOULD HAVE DONE IN DIETRICH SITUATION. When we carry a gun, we assume a liability and responsibility that prior to that we never had to address. When one pulls his gun to defend himself from a threat of an animal or an individual. then that is when the ballgame of liability comes into play.

From that very moment, we all will certainly have our own ideas of how we would have handled the above two situations, so from me, no criticism to Deitrich intended. He made his decision and the consequences if any, he will have to live and address.. \\

I just refer back to my brick through my plate glass window. Hindsight in this case was was surely not 20-20 ..

[Chief Joseph]

mine is hypothetical, one where I am working to realize the responsibility of owning and carrying a gun, thus since I have not been in a situation that would answer the question I can not at this time answer it.

I asked you because you were in the type of situation i have thought about, once where a gun may not have been the answer but was used because it was an option.

You answered NO, I appreciate your honesty.

If this is a situation that you feel a gun is not warranted, or if you torture yourself about it too much. Maybe you shouldn't be carrying one at all.

[medezyner]

WE CAN ALL CONJECTURE AS TO WHAT WE WOULD HAVE DONE IN DIETRICH SITUATION. When we carry a gun, we assume a liability and responsibility that prior to that we never had to address. When one pulls his gun to defend himself from a threat of an animal or an individual. then that is when the ballgame of liability comes into play.

From that very moment, we all will certainly have our own ideas of how we would have handled the above two situations, so from me, no criticism to Deitrich intended. He made his decision and the consequences if any, he will have to live and address.. \\

I just refer back to my brick through my plate glass window. Hindsight in this case was was surely not 20-20 ..

Well said jocko, my exact sentiment (as I tried to communicate in my earlier posting). I for one will not engage in armchair quarterbacking.

[ltxi]

Oh, good lord....the damn dog attacked his dog/him and he shot and killed it. Aside from Dietrich feeling bad about having to do it, what's the problem?

I normally refrain from personal comments but, pacific nw guy, you really do need to get a grip or stop carrying a weapon.

[pacific nw guy]

I normally refrain from personal comments but, pacific nw guy, you really do need to get a grip or stop carrying a weapon.

I am trying to be responsible, i am the one with the grip. I never made an assumption, I posed a question. When you post on an internet forum you open your situation to the world and the world's criticism. If you or Dietrich cant handle the questions from me or anyone else then dont post the information. if this goes to court the only thing I have done is get him ready for what they will ask.

I take what happened seriously. what if dietrich missed the dog and that bullet hit someone or something else. the point is that many people I have come across who carry guns are what I consider a little too quick to think using the gun is necessary and too many are looking for
a reason or waiting to be able to shoot it.

[Chief Joseph]

I am trying to be responsible, i am the one with the grip. I never made an assumption, I posed a question. When you post on an internet forum you open your situation to the world and the world's criticism. If you or Dietrich cant handle the questions from me or anyone else then dont post the information. if this goes to court the only thing I have done is get him ready for what they will ask.

I take what happened seriously. what if dietrich missed the dog and that bullet hit someone or something else. the point is that many people I have come across who carry guns are what I consider a little too quick to think using the gun is necessary and many are looking for or waiting to be able to shoot it.


Seriously, you sound like someone who should NOT carry a weapon. What "could" happen, could happen with any shooting, be it military, police or self defense. We are all aware that you are responsible for your bullet where ever it may hit. This case is pretty cut and dried and I'm sure he doesn't need you to tell him what may come up in court. Also, just like him, when you respond to a public topic, you also are up for criticism. Just like those you assume are too ready to shoot, those never ready to shoot may as well not be armed because it sounds like there is no situation you would condone shooting, so why bother being here or armed at all? I also can't wait to shoot my guns, but in the woods at targets. You are labeling conceal carriers as wild cards and that is not correct, I challenge you to find any instances of conceal carriers being charged for defending themselves or reckless behavior because it's not there. I have never heard of any. I read a great article in one of my gun magazines, It was written by a LEO who said he had known a few officers, like you, who blinked in crisis situations instead of jumping in to fight. He made a good point, if you have no will to fight, then do something else, your not good to LE. I believe it's the same with carrying concealed, if you're not willing to use it to defend yourself, then don't carry.

[swampman]

Ive been reading these responses since deitrich first post absorbing all that is being said,contemplating a possible responce,now I dont have to because the chief just said it for me,thank you chief who ever you are.:D

[jocko]

everyone should be entitled to their opinions and not be hammered over it because his opinion does not run with yours. This thread should be put to bed for it has started out alittle civil and is now getting more uncivil.

I have seen alot of this and probalby myself been guility of some myself Jim K and I go round and round but we do seem to be civil and we both have our own opinions, we shold try to respect that before the chief moderator come sinto play and solves the issue for all of us...My 2 cents YMMV.

[pacific nw guy]

Seriously, you sound like someone who should NOT carry a weapon. What "could" happen, could happen with any shooting, be it military, police or self defense. We are all aware that you are responsible for your bullet where ever it may hit. This case is pretty cut and dried and I'm sure he doesn't need you to tell him what may come up in court. Also, just like him, when you respond to a public topic, you also are up for criticism. Just like those you assume are too ready to shoot, those never ready to shoot may as well not be armed because it sounds like there is no situation you would condone shooting, so why bother being here or armed at all? I also can't wait to shoot my guns, but in the woods at targets. You are labeling conceal carriers as wild cards and that is not correct, I challenge you to find any instances of conceal carriers being charged for defending themselves or reckless behavior because it's not there. I have never heard of any. I read a great article in one of my gun magazines, It was written by a LEO who said he had known a few officers, like you, who blinked in crisis situations instead of jumping in to fight. He made a good point, if you have no will to fight, then do something else, your not good to LE. I believe it's the same with carrying concealed, if you're not willing to use it to defend yourself, then don't carry.

I appreciate your feedback. have a great new year.

[Chief Joseph]

I appreciate your feedback. have a great new year.

You as well, btw, I'm in the PNW also.

[Jim K]

Jocko,

I want to assure you that I do respect your opinions. If everyone agreed with me it would be no fun. I would not have married my wife if she was a wimp. I think I could trust you because you stick to "your guns".

Yeah we throw barbs at each other yet we do it in jest (I hope).

Everyone else,

I carry a concealed pistol. I have the view that it is there to protect life, my loved ones and me. I hope I NEVER have to use it. Carrying makes me more aware of my surroundings in order that I can avoid a dangerous situation in the 1st place. I have no joy in toting a weapon. Shooting at the range is very different than a real life situation that pops up and you have no time to think. If you carry I suggest that you cultivate a mindset of being prepared and being aware.

Please don't second guess anyone's self defense on the words of this forum. It makes for a narrow view of the world. There are too many factors to be conveyed by the printed word.

Regards to everyone, Jim K

[Wayne's World]

WOW, what an interesting thread.
IMO / my2 cents......
There was a clear and present threat, "known threat", non-human, ect.
I am a dog "lover". I have and have had a few family pets (dogs) over the years.
This (IMO) is a non-issue.
Dietrich - you did the right thing.
Anyone questioning the decision you made, was NOT there.

[jocko]

Thanks Jim, and indeed it would be no fun If I agreed with you, even though way down deep you do agree with me. but I understand, If your still married to the same wife, indeed I would rather deal with you than her, for if she has lasted that long with you then I would be food fodder for any argument with her.

but I have slept at a holiday inn lately and some day will read BILL?????

[Jim K]

Jokko,

Yeah, she's a tough woman and she can shoot too!

Have you tried the motel deep six? They'll put yer lites out fer ya. :)

Regards, Jim K

[jocko]

thats for u poor folks south of the dixon line, we uppers here in Indiana prefer Holiday Inn. Free breakfast...

Sure hope your wife shoots a good gun, THAT WORKS out of the box to. A Mr. and Mrs. Jim K posting on this forum would be for me to to much..

[wyntrout]

You have to work with the options available to you and make reasoned snap judgments in threat situations. I love dogs and used to walk my over-sized minpin at all hours of the day and night. That dog was like my child and when he got to the point that we or the vet couldn't do anymore for him and he was obviously suffering, my wife and I were holding him and crying our eyes out as he took his last breath at the vets office. So, I was very concerned with his safety as well as my own.
In Florida we're lucky that sensible people, along with the NRA, "crafted" our CCW laws and weapons in cars, etc. You don't need a CCW permit to carry a loaded gun in your glove box. They expect you to have bullets in your gun if you're carrying for protection... unlike too many other states. Also, our CCW is for "weapons in general", not just firearms. We can carry any legal weapons concealed -- guns, knives, blackjacks, clubs, chemical sprays, stun guns, etc. I chose to carry a stun gun as well as a Para P12 with 13 rounds of 230gr. Federal HS, and a powerful "tactical" light. While I haven't pulled a gun on a dog, I have used the stun gun several times -- no contact, just the light and noise of its arc kept the dogs at bay. If the gun were the only choice, I may have had to shoot a dog, depending on the ferocity of the attack. I certainly would have my hand on the weapon and drawn and aimed as he got closer. You can only react to the signs the dog is giving you. You don't have much time if one's charging and snarling. I have even picked up my dog to keep other dogs away from him, while kicking at the dog, but if it had started attacking me, I would have shot the dog... and felt bad about having to do that, but the dog owner is responsible for keeping his dog confined. Most areas have leash laws, but you still see dogs roaming about and not all have collars.
So, Dietrich, I feel your pain, but you did what you had to do at the time, and you're safe.:)
Wynn

OH! I prefer Super 8 motels... inexpensive AND "free" WIFI :third:, as well as much better than Motel 6.:(

[Jim K]

Jokko,

Mrs. K shoots a lady smith & an Ithaca model 37 pump riot gun. However if you make her mad she can kill you by giving you "the eye". Don't forget the two most important words in a married mans' vocabulary; "yes dear".

Happy new year! Jim

[Jim K]

Wyntrout,

Vae victus.
Ademus jura nostra defendere.

Felix sit annus novus! Feliz ano novo! Feliz ano nuevo! Happy new year!

Jim K

[mr surveyor]

dangit, Jim, can't you speak Texan! I didn't understand a word you said.

must be a defective keyboard:D


surv

[wyntrout]

Thanks, Jim K. I get the gist of that, but I didn't study Latin. I chose "live" languages, though Latin can help you with a lot of the Romance languages. "Audemus jura nostra defendere" is the Alabama state motto, I just found out.
I used to consider myself a Texan until my wife retired in '96 and we moved to Jacksonville from San Antonio. I was born in Tampa and left at age six or seven. I'm close to 20 years total time in Florida now, which is only slightly more than Texas. Felíz año nuevo! (It takes a little longer to look up the ascii codes.)
Everyone have a safe and happy new year. Watch out for the falling bullets of the idiots spraying bullets into the air... and the DUI drivers. My wife has to drive home from work after 11PM tonight and then we can stay at home, sipping Beaujolais Nouveau as we celebrate the new year. She has one of those "gaze of death" looks and I warn her about "dissin'" someone and getting shot these days. I sometimes feign getting darts in my back when she gives me that look.
Wynn:D

[Jim K]

Sorry Surv. I must have been chanelling "Billy". :)

Hows about "don't mess with Texas".

"Rainy days and automatic weapons get me down". Bogota Colombia 1985-1986.

"Catapults don't kill people. Rocks kill people".

Best Regards, Jim K

[tv_racin_fan]

I think the question was valid myself. I thought pretty hard about it and more or less answered that question for myself before I made the decision to get the permit to carry. I simply asked my wife if she was prepared to shoot to defend herself or her family and when her answer was yes I was satisfied.

Honestly I dunno if I would have shot or not under these circumstances. I'd like to think I would have been able to handle it without shooting but then the question becomes do I not handle the situation and do I get to beat myself up over not doing the right thing when later the dog hurts someone else. If I don't have a handgun and the dog attacks me then I have to deal with it the best I can. If I don't have a handgun and it attacks someone else or my dog then I again have to deal with it the best I can. I prefer the I have a handgun and sadly I had to shoot the dog then the all to real possibilty that someone or someones dog is hurt because I don't.

I haven't the clue how I will respond if the time comes. I can think about what I hope I will do, I can even do some training but until such time comes I can't know what I will do.