WHere are the sky marshals?

[knkali]

I thought there were sky marshals with Kahr P40s on most long flights?

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/07/28/7187171-police-pilot-beaten-in-fracas-with-passengers?GT1=43001

[wyntrout]

PR drug cartel members?? :eek:

Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

I thought there were sky marshals with Kahr P40s on most long flights?

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/07/28/7187171-police-pilot-beaten-in-fracas-with-passengers?GT1=43001

I thought the air marshals carried SIG P229s or P250s.

[OldLincoln]

With marshmallow tipped bullets to not harm anything.

[knkali]

With marshmallow tipped bullets to not harm anything.


too funny.

wow i did not realize asking someone to fasten their seat belt was so offensive. Flying has changed. When I was a kid being a pilot was something special, a goal to achieve like being a firefighter or a cop. Now I never hear kids saying they want to be a pilot when they grow up.

[Barth]

I thought the air marshals carried SIG P229s or P250s.

Standard issue is Sig Sauer P229/357. Same with Secret Service.

[ripley16]

I thought the air marshals carried SIG P229s or P250s.

I was talking with an Air Marshall just this past Monday. He carried the 229, hated the 250, (said it was too small for .357Sig). He was buying a Sig P232 as an off duty carry.

[Ubaldo99]

Sat next to an off-duty Air Marshall recently on a Southwest flight from New Orleans to Dallas. We got to talking and he told me that he carried a Glock.

[Barth]

Sat next to an off-duty Air Marshall recently on a Southwest flight from New Orleans to Dallas. We got to talking and he told me that he carried a Glock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Air_Marshal_Service
Federal Air Marshals carry the Sig Sauer P229 service pistol in a .357 SIG chambering and also carry a Baton. As noted above, Air Marshals must be re-certified on their firearm quarterly. According to an anonymous Air Marshal, they are trained to "shoot to stop", typically firing at the largest part of the body (the chest) and then the head to "incapacitate the nervous system".[13]
The US Federal Air Marshal Service signed a multi-million dollar contract for procurement of the SIG Sauer P250 Compact chambered for the .357 SIG cartridge in 2009.[14

Info may be old though. Maybe they carry Glocks too. Things change...

[paul34]

Federal Marshalls are a big expense with little return on investment. And when they were needed, like in this case, they weren't even available... or perhaps chose to remain concealed.

I'd rather just stay with the original "homeland security" provided for us a couple of centuries ago, but hey, I'm just crazy, I guess.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x95/paul344/Sept11_c540.jpg

[Bawanna]

Thats a fine picture right there. I might even consider flying again if we went back to the old "Right" ways.

My wife took (we call em grandma and grandpa but not ours) to the airport. They were really nervous and out of place so she got a pass so she could take them right to the gate.
She got pulled aside and had the thorough search while grandma and grandpa went right thru. She told them she wasn't getting on a plane but of course they didn't know or care.
Kind of wish I'd have been there to deal with the Walmart Greeter at TSA. Probably would've went to jail but might of been worth it.
Think I'm kind of sour today.

[getsome]

Heard this story on the Neil Boortz radio show...a 95 year old woman with late stage cancer was flying home from Florida with her daughter so she could be with friends and family to die...She was in a wheelchair and when going through the TSA (aka the Terrorist Sadistic A-Holes) check in she got pulled aside for a full pat down...They rolled her into a closed room and did a full body search...They came back out and had the daughter come in telling her that her mother would need to remove the Depends adult diaper she had on to be sure there was no explosives under it....Guess what, she didn't have anything on her but had to go through all that and put the used diaper back on in order to board the plane to go home to die....Thanks Homeland Security for keeping us safe from grandmas in wheelchairs...:mad:

[cgo99]

Heard this story on the Neil Boortz radio show...a 95 year old woman with late stage cancer was flying home from Florida with her daughter so she could be with friends and family to die...She was in a wheelchair and when going through the TSA (aka the Terrorist Sadistic A-Holes) check in she got pulled aside for a full pat down...They rolled her into a closed room and did a full body search...They came back out and had the daughter come in telling her that her mother would need to remove the Depends adult diaper she had on to be sure there was no explosives under it....Guess what, she didn't have anything on her but had to go through all that and put the used diaper back on in order to board the plane to go home to die....Thanks Homeland Security for keeping us safe from grandmas in wheelchairs...:mad:
Please don't get me started on this subject, to think that is all just for show.
Everybody knows that the TSA does not serve any real purpose other than abuse law abiding travelers while missing all the things they are suppose to be preventing, it all just infuriates me. :31:

[LaP]

It's hard to believe that this incident occurred in the airport terminal at Miami.
Here in Indianapolis, I noticed approximately 15 - 20 uniformed and ARMED security personnel walking around the terminal (some were K-9 units also). There was a constant security presence for the entire 3 hours I was there. It was somewhat comforting to know that there was probably a few plainclothed security people in the mix also.

[Longitude Zero]

Although I do not want the TSA I have little faith in Boortzes journalistic integrity and honesty.

[Bawanna]

The part that chaffes my backside is they aren't allowed to search the people that really should be searched or they would be accused of profiling. So if you want to avoid the hassle dress up like a terrorist and you'll sail through.
I just got another reminder at work yesterday when I used the term towel head. Guess that upsets them or something and by golly I surely wouldn't want to do that now wood eye?

[paul34]

I can't be sure if I was profiled, but I do think they profile, just in a sort of random, pointless way.

I was standing in the TSA line at Philadelphia. I think this was right after they started implementing the full body scanners (instant DNA shredding!) and invasive pat downs. I was pretty angry, to be honest. I didn't look happy in that line. I mean, I always have a "poker face." Most people cannot tell if I look angry or just bored. Most of the time it is neither.

Anyway, there was a TSA guy just walking through the line, chit chatting with people. That actually made me more upset, because why is this guy getting paid to small talk with people waiting in line? I purposely avoided his glare while everyone else seemed to try to brown nose with the agent. I think I was a little too obvious at avoiding his glare in an angry way.

I got pulled over for a "random" check after I went through the metal scanner (no beep). No one else was searched. It wasn't an invasive pat down, though. I would've been seething if I had been groped. I asked the agent why he searched me. He seemed taken a bit off guard, and BSed some reason on the spot, never even looking at me. To be fair, I sort of stepped off to the side and talked softly at the side of his face. In retrospect, that was possibly confrontational.

I made him feel uncomfortable without making it obvious to everyone else. Not uncomfortable in the "I think this guy is al qaeda" way, but uncomfortable in the way of forcing him to stop to think about what exactly he is doing as a TSA agent.

I decided in the future I shouldn't be so confrontational. I could get into trouble the next time if the agent decides to call over his super or something.

[Ubaldo99]

Its well-documented that the TSA has not prevented or found ANYTHING in their ridiculous screening processes. I had to fly on business last week to Denver. After being hassled by the TSA, yelled-at, humiliated, and body-scanned... I finally cleared "security". I then puchased a bottle of water from one of the airport stores and proceeded to my gate and waited for boarding. While I was waiting another TSA "officer" approached me and asked me to unscrew the cap on my water so that she could hold a Q-tip saturated with "something" over my uncorked water bottle to detect... What?! What are these inane TSA protocols designed to accomplish?! I've been demeaned now so many times by these seemingly arbitrary TSA procedures that I've just given-up questioning or protesting. Anybody else in this boat with me?

[getsome]

Try wearing a turban and carry a basket of cobras and you will slide right through....Problem solved...:cool:

[Bawanna]

Oh yeah, I'm sure your boats full and we need more and bigger boats. I've told it before but one of the girls I work with here flew someplace. I had made her a kuboton, a little stick with grooves in it with a key fob on the end. An old lady in front of her had knitting needles, they let her keep those. A kid behind her had drum sticks in his back pocket, they let him keep those. BUT her Coco Bolo custom made kuboton a little stick abut 4"'s long is now riding around in some TSA agents pocket.

Totally insane.

[Bawanna]

Try wearing a turban and carry a basket of cobras and you will slide right through....Problem solved...:cool:

As long as you don't have a water bottle or too big a tube of toothpaste.

Turban, I gotta remember that. I'm not allowed to call em by their real name.

[mr surveyor]

if I can't drive my own danged vehicle to wherever it is I have to, or want to go to, I don't get gone. If it's business related and on a tight schedule, I'll take the company jet... now where did I leave that silly thing parked...

Then again, for the last 10 years or so I've had absolutely no desire to even cross the county line. I'm happy here in downtown Stumpwater!

[Bawanna]

if I can't drive my own danged vehicle to wherever it is I have to, or want to go to, I don't get gone. If it's business related and on a tight schedule, I'll take the company jet... now where did I leave that silly thing parked...

Then again, for the last 10 years or so I've had absolutely no desire to even cross the county line. I'm happy here in downtown Stumpwater!

Amen brother and I'm with you Boo Boo. Look at you 1000 post. What we gonna do for that monumental occasion? And your birthday coming up too, this is big, really big!

[ltxi]

I can't be sure if I was profiled, but I do think they profile, just in a sort of random, pointless way.

I was standing in the TSA line at Philadelphia. I think this was right after they started implementing the full body scanners (instant DNA shredding!) and invasive pat downs. I was pretty angry, to be honest. I didn't look happy in that line. I mean, I always have a "poker face." Most people cannot tell if I look angry or just bored. Most of the time it is neither.

Anyway, there was a TSA guy just walking through the line, chit chatting with people. That actually made me more upset, because why is this guy getting paid to small talk with people waiting in line? I purposely avoided his glare while everyone else seemed to try to brown nose with the agent. I think I was a little too obvious at avoiding his glare in an angry way.

I got pulled over for a "random" check after I went through the metal scanner (no beep). No one else was searched. It wasn't an invasive pat down, though. I would've been seething if I had been groped. I asked the agent why he searched me. He seemed taken a bit off guard, and BSed some reason on the spot, never even looking at me. To be fair, I sort of stepped off to the side and talked softly at the side of his face. In retrospect, that was possibly confrontational.

I made him feel uncomfortable without making it obvious to everyone else. Not uncomfortable in the "I think this guy is al qaeda" way, but uncomfortable in the way of forcing him to stop to think about what exactly he is doing as a TSA agent.

I decided in the future I shouldn't be so confrontational. I could get into trouble the next time if the agent decides to call over his super or something.

This is what you call a competent guy just doing his job. Sorry if you didn't like it, but trained, intuitive crowd scanning techniques...profiling if you wish to call it that...are one of the better tools in the box. As I'm sure someone will note, it can be ineffective with high mileage travelers. But it works pretty well for the rest.

Although semi-retired and somewhat less so right now, I'm a very high mileage air traveler. While I sincerely agree that many/most of our airport security measures are pretty much nothing more than ineffective, feel good, reactive crap (and well remember the immediate, post 9/11 insanity where "security" was handled by English as a second language, contracted, "Burger King" help) I have no beef at all with the front line TSA folk I've encountered on a regular basis over the past few years. None of the rules and regulations, many nutty, are their fault...none. For the most part I've found these people to be professional and friendly. Remembering that they spend much of their day dealing with venting, pissed off, vacation travelers, many of them complete, self-centered a$$holes, and appreciating that goes a long way.

That said...unless it involves crossing large bodies of water or my driving the aircraft I've avoided air travel for vacation unless absolutely necessary for decades! Much of that is bus man's holiday syndrome, I admit. However, wife and I just returned from a two and a half week, 4400 mile, road trip vacation. X2 expensive and time consuming, but wouldn't have done it any other way.

A good week in the home office this week, but next week back to the "grind".

[aray]

If you want to see security done right, travel through Tel Aviv. The Israelis have this down to a true art form.

I've done it twice: once with a "trusted group" and once traveling by myself (single guy, alone). The difference was stark and yes I was profiled. I found the whole process fascinating. I was enjoying learning about the sorts of questions he was asking me & puzzling through the "why" behind the "what".

But the bottom line is: their success speaks for itself. Absolutely no security incidents in decades. But you have to have to political will to admit the truth to yourself: some demographics are more likely to be problems than others. That is, you have to be willing to profile. I say bring it on.

[MikeyKahr]

aray, Tel Aviv is fascinating, and yes, they do have it down pat and I admire them for that. I wish we could get to their level (a third of the way would be great!), but it just wouldn't happen as: 1) they only deal with a tiny percentage of air passengers compared to the US and 2) they're allowed to act "politically incorrect" for the sake of security. They're allowed to do things that our wonderful gov't would never allow over here - but I know I'm preaching to the choir. :w00t:

The thing that's a bit annoying is being "randomly" selected for a heavy-duty search each and every time I fly to a certain overseas location. Each and every time. Nothing random about it, and it's not just me but other friends and acquaintances who fly to the same destination. We know it, the agent who requests it knows it. My friends and I always smile and nod when we hear the "random" word and I think the agents get a kick out of our knowing. But we have to do what we have to do in this post-9/11 world.

[Bawanna]

Back in the day I frequently crossed the border into Canada, in fact every two weeks. I raced motorcycles about 20 miles the other side. If I was clean shaven and kempt, drive right through, grow a beard, mess up the hair of have it long and you got a few more questions and sometimes a vehicle and tool box inspection.
Profiling works, I endorse it whole heartedly.

I clearly recall coming home from our honeymoon, yeah we went to Canada. In front of us was a real long haired greasy biker, (might have been Jocko in his youth). They waved him over. The guard got to us and I said your not gonna let him in are ya? He said not if he could help it.

I still chuckle thinking about it.

[Longitude Zero]

The Israelies political incorrect methods work super well. However as has been mentioned they would lock up the US air system as they handle a microscopic fraction of the volume as is in the west.

[yqtszhj]

If you want to see security done right, travel through Tel Aviv. The Israelis have this down to a true art form.

I've done it twice: once with a "trusted group" and once traveling by myself (single guy, alone). The difference was stark and yes I was profiled. I found the whole process fascinating. I was enjoying learning about the sorts of questions he was asking me & puzzling through the "why" behind the "what".

But the bottom line is: their success speaks for itself. Absolutely no security incidents in decades. But you have to have to political will to admit the truth to yourself: some demographics are more likely to be problems than others. That is, you have to be willing to profile. I say bring it on.

Exactly what I was thinking. The Israelis have it right on many items to maintain their ability to just survive. I saw a Interview with Benjamin Netanyahu by the liberal Bill Mahr and was thinking "sure would be nice to have this guy (Netanyahu) as our president." He called it like it was and had the audience cheering.