Armed crook loses life in tangle with Marine vet

[aray]

What do you think? Justified or not?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7665645.html

[Longitude Zero]

Not the smartest choice but the report said the robber pointed his gun at him in the parking lot and that is when he rammed the robbers car.

Mess with the best...Die like the rest.

[getsome]

I have no problem with what he did and by stopping that punk thug he probably kept someone else from being robbed...I say give him a medal...:cheer2:

[knkali]

the guy has remorse after chasing him down and hitting him twice with his car? Something doesnt seem right.

[Bawanna]

Some people feel bad when they step on an ant. I hit a chipmunk with my van on the way home saturday, couldn't avoid it towing the boat and all. I felt kind of bad. I'd feel better running over this dirt bag a couple times. Even with the boat I'd back up and make sure I got the job done.
He'll get over it I'm sure.

[OldLincoln]

In CA he'd live out his days in prison. You cannot chase down and kill somebody after the crime is over, which it was when the robber exited the store. What the Marine did was a brand new crime.

You may argue the robber shot at him as he approached in his car. However, in CA they would say that, at that time, the Marine was the aggressor not the robber and the robber was attempting to protect himself. A car is a large lethal weapon.

Now other states like Texas may hold a different position.

[knkali]

In CA he'd live out his days in prison. You cannot chase down and kill somebody after the crime is over, which it was when the robber exited the store. What the Marine did was a brand new crime.

You may argue the robber shot at him as he approached in his car. However, in CA they would say that, at that time, the Marine was the aggressor not the robber and the robber was attempting to protect himself. A car is a large lethal weapon.

Now other states like Texas may hold a different position.

well said

[georgepittenger]

Some people feel bad when they step on an ant. I hit a chipmunk with my van on the way home saturday, couldn't avoid it towing the boat and all. I felt kind of bad. I'd feel better running over this dirt bag a couple times. Even with the boat I'd back up and make sure I got the job done.
He'll get over it I'm sure.

You are COLD man ......

OTOH , I've never been threatened w a gun or had one held to my head .

I do believe I would take offense at such .

Perhaps two avenues from there -

1 piss you pants and go somewhere inwardly

2 get real mad and act like this guy did

I'm cetainly not sure how I would act . One never really knows until confronted w a situation .

I sometimes discuss bad situations w my daughter who is young enough to think that Kill the son of a b**** would always be the answer .

A little maturity may yield a different reaction ............ or not .

I think this gentleman realizes that actually killing another human being is a life changing event , not soon if ever gotten over .

[TheTman]

I imagine it being in Texas, he'll be a hailed as hero for most citizens and a DA would have a hard time prosecuting him. I guess a lot depends how it went down, did the guy see him and start shooting causing the man to decide to ram him, or was he going to ram the robber so he shot in self defense. I can certainly see the man having remorse for causing a death I believe I would too, no matter how justified. It sounds to me like he decided to ram the guy after he was shot at, in self defense. Yeah, he probably shouldn't have chased the robber down, and left that to the police, but then the guy would probably still be out there committing crimes and possibly murders. It sounds to me like the robber shot when he saw the guy so the robber got rammed. I hope the old guy walks on this one.

[Longitude Zero]

You may argue the robber shot at him as he approached in his car. However, in CA they would say that, at that time, the Marine was the aggressor not the robber and the robber was attempting to protect himself. A car is a large lethal weapon.

Now other states like Texas may hold a different position.

IN OK the judge would slap down any attorney who tried that line of reasoning.

[ltxi]

the guy has remorse after chasing him down and hitting him twice with his car? Something doesnt seem right.

The only thing that doesn't seem right is his misplaced empathy as expressed in the last four paragraphs of the news story. I would have expected better of a Vietnam era Marine vet. Perhaps just softening with age.

I'm totally with Bawanna on this one...including the part about the chipmunk. Think he's cold? I would have worked to find some way to simply execute the guy....given any hope of the final going unnoticed.

With no disrespect whatsoever intended I think what you pointed out in your post, OldLincoln, is a lot of what's wrong with much of this country and it's justice system today. I have completely lost patience with these humanoid animals. And at least as much with any system that protects them.

[OldLincoln]

Oh, I agree 100% and when I was a kid (in CA) you could defend your property as well as your life. Reading up on laws before my CCW course introduced this stuff and all I've read since has re-enforced it.

You may remember a while back a guy had his home invaded and as they drove away with his stuff he put a few rifle rounds into the vehicle. He was convicted of illegally discharging a firearm and public endangerment. Don't remember if he got jail time or not. The kicker is it was NOT in CA.

Remember the Jeopardy Triangle?
1. Ability/Capability
2. Opportunity
3. Intent

None of the three apply in a way that justifies the Marine running the guy down. I'm really sorry this happened and I wish him well defending himself but the DA will have to charge him and other than jury nullification he's in deep trouble. This will be considered a revenge killing clear and simple.

I'll review the training forum here and if the material I've gathered isn't there I may add it. It is distasteful but something we have to keep in mind when carrying.

[aray]

In Maryland there is no question the Marine would be in trouble. They would rule that once the thief left the threat had ended, and that subsequent pursuit was unjustified by a civilian.

Plus there would be relatives moaning: "He was just about to turn his life around.." etc. along with a lawyer preparing a wrongful death suit.

[Rainman48314]

What do you think? Justified or not?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7665645.html

Here in Detroit, we're not generally fans of foreign cars, but, damm, that Lexus got the job done. Of course my Buick would have finished him on the first hit.

I think that charges should not be filed against the robbery victim. He was within his rights to follow the BG. Only when the BG tried to shoot him, did he use his car as a weapon. It would have been a different matter, legally, if he chased him gun in hand and shot first.

Bye bye POS.

[Rainman48314]

In CA he'd live out his days in prison. You cannot chase down and kill somebody after the crime is over, which it was when the robber exited the store. What the Marine did was a brand new crime.

You may argue the robber shot at him as he approached in his car. However, in CA they would say that, at that time, the Marine was the aggressor not the robber and the robber was attempting to protect himself. A car is a large lethal weapon.

Now other states like Texas may hold a different position.

Which came first, use of the car (offensively) or use of the gun? If the gun was pointed first, the use of the car is defensive. Hope there is no video to say otherwise.

[Dietrich]

I believe that if this had happened in North Carolina,the man would be in some very serious trouble.Now if I were king of this state that would not be so but under current circumstances he probably would have been charged with second degree murder or manslaughter.Some of the DAs would probably want first degree charges but would back off that because the robber pointed his gun at him.Then again they might say the robber had a right to defend himself as the robbery was over and this was a seperate incident.

[TheTman]

A little more news on this, sounds like the robber pointed the gun at Kobobel, so he rammed him. At this time there are no charges pending against Kobobel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF4TK2LNr-0

[JFootin]

I believe that if this had happened in North Carolina,the man would be in some very serious trouble.Now if I were king of this state that would not be so but under current circumstances he probably would have been charged with second degree murder or manslaughter.Some of the DAs would probably want first degree charges but would back off that because the robber pointed his gun at him.Then again they might say the robber had a right to defend himself as the robbery was over and this was a seperate incident.

Didn't our legislators just pass new fight-or-flight rules that better enable us to defend ourselves?

[Dietrich]

Didn't our legislators just pass new fight-or-flight rules that better enable us to defend ourselves?

If you`re referring to the expanded Castle Doctrine it doesn`t take effect until December 1st.Even then,once the bad guy has broken off the attack,you have no right to pursue and engage him again.NC law would probably view this as a totally seperate incident seeing as the robber had left and the victim had jumped into his vehicle to give chase.He might be a former marine but he is not law enforcement.Personally,I don`t agree with state law on many levels but they haven`t paid much attention to what I approve or disapprove of lately.

[JFootin]

I guess we'll have to move to Texas if we want to behave like cowboy commandos.

[Bawanna]

Any common sense state should do, don't gotta be Texas. Sadly there are very few to choose from these days. I think AZ might be ok. Montana and Wyoming not too bad.

I just want a place I can be myself. Maybe Alcatraz.

[DriveMyKahr]

Not justified. Once the robber left the victim's office, the victim was no longer in danger. In this scenario, in tracking the robber down the Marine became the aggressor, not the robber. The robber fired his gun attempting to protect himself. A car is a lethal weapon.

It will be interesting to find out which direction this goes...
.

[Dietrich]

Even if there are no charges filed against the man,he is in real danger of litigation from the BG`s family.I would not want to be in his shoes.This could drag on for a long,long,time.

[wyntrout]

Dang! I thought in Texas, the cops would have asked the robbery victim which taxidermist he preferred. :D

I hope the good guy had enough legal representation... you just never know how it's going to go. The guy DID try to fire on his "castle"!

Wynn:)

[heeler]

Sorry fella's this is Texas.
Not California,New York,or New Jersey.
This guy will in all likelyhood be no billed by the Harris County Grand Jury.
This happened about 3 miles from my house.
Northeast Houston is a rough place and getting worse.
Being close to retirement age and my house is paid for I will not likely be moving any time soon.
One of the primary reasons I got my CHL was the ever present issues of high crime and a large illegal alien population here along with some very notorious gangs that contributes to this problem greatly.