Is this a normal break-in for a PM9?

[sigsegv]

I went to the gun show on Saturday anticipating buying something, but not being sure what. One of the vendors is apparently the Kahr supplier to Washington State LE agencies, and so had a great selection. I had been looking for a micro-9mm, and as soon as I touched a PM9 I fell in love. They had one NIB black diamond PM9 with night sights, both of which I want. I don't like two-tone and I don't see the point of buying a self defense gun that you can't use in the dark. So I bought it. :D

Anyway, I read everything I could in the tech section, lubed the pistol, cleaned the magazines, left the slide locked back overnight, and set off for the range today with 200 rounds of ammunition.

I loaded both the 6 and 7 round mags and went to town. Fired off 13 rounds flawlessly, and the gun is impressively accurate. Then I had a stovepipe with the 7 round mag. Then another in the next mag. Then a low feed below the ramp on the second round of the 7 round magazine. Then releasing the slide on a full mag failed to feed. Then another stovepipe.

At this point I decided (like many others on the forums, apparently) that the 7 round magazine was trash.

At this point I had fired about 80 rounds alternating mags and had no malfunctions with the 6 round magazine. I started using it exclusively.

Between rounds 80 and 120 I had two FTFs with the 6 round mag. They were low feeds on the second round of the magazine, Locking the slide back, whacking the magazine, and dropping the slide got the gun going again. Both times I had banged the back of the magazine against my hand before inserting it to seat the rounds, and I released the slide with the slide catch lever.

One of these FTFs was with 115gr Remington UMC, the other was with 124gr Speer Lawman.

After round 120, I had no issues. I went through another 30 rounds of 124gr lawman, and then put 50 flawless rounds of 124gr +P Gold Dots through the gun.

From what I'm gleaning, semiautos this small have tight tolerances and are finicky until everything "wears together". Does this seem like a normal break-in session for a PM9? I'm going to need to put some more rounds through it before I truly trust it.

I just field stripped and cleaned the gun. It looks like the top of the polymer frame rails are getting chewed up a little bit by the slide. Is this normal? My guess is that it is, and once the polymer frame has worn down so that the slide only contacts the metal rails, it will stop.

Thanks guys, I love this gun and want it to be my daily carry, replacing an LCR.

[TucsonMTB]

Define "normal". Your experience parallels mine. The difference is that my current Kahrs are PM40's, rather than PM9's and that one took more shooting than yours to smooth out and become reliable. The other took less.

By the way, now that they are both working reliably, so are both of the +1 length, range magazines supplied with each, so you may want to revisit that magazine in the future, preferably after cleaning the magazine itself as well. Mine are sensitive to the build up of carbon that seems to accompany shooting many rounds, even of high quality ammunition.

Glad you are having a good time. Congratulations! and Welcome to the forum.

[Bawanna]

Sounds pretty normal to me. There have been some issues with the 7 round mags, some run fine, some don't. Your guns just working itself in and will continue to get better and better. You can clean up the chewed up rails a little or leave as is. Won't hurt a thing, just cosmetic.

Your also correct in that they are tight little guns. I like to run them a little oily, but I tend to lean that way anyhow. Not sure if it helps much but it surely can't hurt.

Welcome to the forum, keep shooting, you'll love it more and more. Don't hesitate to ask if any issues come up in the future, there's some really smart folks hanging around here. Chances are somebody has been there and done that before no matter what you might encounter.

[Bear549]

Sounds just like my CM9 when I shot blazer 124gr after the first 100 rounds. So far I have put 200 rounds of reloads, 200 rounds of Blazer, 100 rounds of American Eagle and 20 rounds of PDX1 through it. The Blazers act the same way you are describing, 2-3 FTF's every 50 rounds. The reloads and the PDX1 are both stub nose. The Blazer has a sharper point on them compared to the AE and this is why I feel they will not yet run correctly. I have polished and tweaked on it in-between shootings and it is now to the point where I feel confident carrying it. I am going to stay away from Blazers for a few hundred more rounds and then try them again to see if there is an improvement. Just be sure that what ever ammo you decdide to carry, that you test it to make sure it cycles without issues.

One of the biggest things I noticed is that the followers on the mags catch the mag release. I have sanded them down to where they feed nicely up through the mag when the mag is in the receiver. After putting 100 rounds through the gun, I looked at the followers and they had scuff marks where they had rubbed on the mag catch again. I just kept lightly sanding to where they do not have any rub marks after shooting and now all seems fine. I do recommend using Talon grips or something similar to help your grip, because it does make a difference.

Just like everyone told me here, just keep putting rounds through it, keep it cleaned and lubed and it will start shooting great after it is broke it.

[Popeye]

I think everything sounds pretty normal. Quality pistols seem to be a little finicky in the begining. Some more than others. My advice is keep shooting it,it will come around.

[wyntrout]

The magazines can use a little smoothing inside... the right lower front of the follower, in particular. There seems to be a bit of binding with the magazine catch and the follower/spring, especially with the 7-round mag.

It's a great gun, though, and worth the breaking in and fine tuning. I love mine, but I seem to love my PM45 and the P380 a tad more... looking at the amount of carry each gets. I love that all of them are alike in shape and controls... no changes between weapons for operation.

Wynn:)

[TheTman]

I have trouble with 7 round mags on my CW45. They don't want to feed reliably, so I stick to a 6 round mag in the gun and another on my belt. I work on the 7 rounders at the range to try and see what's going on. Either it doesn't pick up the next round, or if it does often it jams the nose up against the barrel instead of feeding it into the barrel. The ones causing the most trouble have the extended plastic on the bottom and say for P45 and PM45 only, while the one I have with that standard baseplate that they says fits ALL 45 models has fewer problems. They all click in good and tight, and I can't see any difference in them. I'll just keep messing with them until I figure it out.

[heeler]

I now have 300 rounds through my PM9 and like the OP had issues with the 7 round mag.
I stopped using it.
Although I did not go through the entire Jocko tech ritual before heading to the range with mine I did clean and lube it and did work the slide some.
What I did do was buy a box of the following ammo to test.
WWB 115gr.
Remington UMC 115gr.
Magtec 115gr.
Federal American Eagle 115 gr.
Blazer Brass 115gr
I then fired 25 rounds of each the first session.
According to my notes here I had a total of six different rounds total of the WWB (1),Magtec(2),Blazer Brass(2),Federal American Eagle(1) failed to feed with the second round going in battery and each of those six FTF were nose dives and again this was with the 7 round magazine ONLY.
The 6 round standard magazine has not once caused any issues at all.
Oddly enough when I only put six rounds in the 7 round magazine I have no issues what so ever.
Go figure.
I can say by the time I had 50-60 rounds through my PM9 it felt pretty much broke in.
Maybe it was my imagination but I really thought I could just feel the pistol setting in and loosening up.
As from that point forward until present it just feeds,fires,and spits out all the other ammo I have put through it.
Me likey.

[jocko]

check to see if that follower in the 7 round mag is getting held up at round 2/3 by the mag release button. In the prepping thread it discusses that and how to check i t out. Personaly that 7 round mag is a 50-50 crap shoot to work right in the PM guns, why that is I cannot tell you, but some of the issues are the follower in the magazine getting caught by the mag release. I think the reason the 7 round mag will work right iwth onoly 6 rounds in it is that now the follower in the magazine is beyouind where the mag release button can fokk with it...check it out. simple to do and simple to fix if that is the issue.

I hate that 7 round mag, it is the most butt ugly magazine I have ever seen. give me a 6 round flush mag any day over that abortion..

[heeler]

Agreed,it's ugly.
Since it's too intrusive to use for concealed purposes it's just a magazine that's in the safe.
Guess it's time to order another six rounder or two after the credit card cools off from all the ammo I have bought to date.

[Barth]

Agreed,it's ugly.
Since it's too intrusive to use for concealed purposes it's just a magazine that's in the safe.
Guess it's time to order another six rounder or two after the credit card cools off from all the ammo I have bought to date.

It's strange?!?
Bought a second extended mag for my MK40 Elite when new.
Broke it in with all three mags and 200 Winchester LE Bonded 180 HPs.
Then cycled all three mags with 200+ Winchester/Speer 135/155/165/180 HPs.
Didn't have a single problem. Not even during break in?

Carry both extended mags in mag packers for reload

[jocko]

actually shooting the extended magazine and then going back to the flush fit mag, will give you a complete different hold on the gun to. So why not practice with what your going to actualy carry. If one needs a 7 round mag, he should have bought a cw9. Just my two cents.

I don't even consider my 7 round PM9 mag worht of being called a "safe queen" even. It is in my tackle box "I think".

[Bawanna]

Jocko? Is that a new guy? Sounds kind of familiar.

The extended mags are ugly. I know ugly.

[Barth]

Oh man,
This isn't that bad...
http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/4529174310/9273323/cecil%2040%202.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

[OldLincoln]

Just a theory.... Fact: A full mag puts more pressure on the lips than 1 round less. I found the mag lips spread more when full. Theory: Lips spreading under full mag cause misfeed. Fix: squeeze mag top per the mag fix thread on this forum.

If this turns out to be true, then can we post it as the generic fix for 7rd mags? Please?

PS: It fixed my 2 7rd mags.

[Bear549]

Just a theory.... Fact: A full mag puts more pressure on the lips than 1 round less. I found the mag lips spread more when full. Theory: Lips spreading under full mag cause misfeed. Fix: squeeze mag top per the mag fix thread on this forum.

If this turns out to be true, then can we post it as the generic fix for 7rd mags? Please?

PS: It fixed my 2 7rd mags.

I have noticed this with the 6 round mag as well when cycling rounds through it without the guide rod and springs in the firearm. I think this is why the manual says to drop the side on the first round instead of slinging it. If you try this without the guide rod you will see how hard the first round chambers because it gets pushed down level instead of pointing up towards the feed ramp. The remaining rounds chamber very easily and point up towards the feed ramp. The pressure on the first round is just too much with a full mag. Squeezing the top of the mag does help keep the first round in place.

[jocko]

jocko? Is that a new guy? Sounds kind of familiar.

The extended mags are ugly. I know ugly.

butt ugly:d

[MBFD]

Next month I will be picking up a PM9.
They're not a cheap gun. Which makes me wonder why the continued problems with the 7 rd mag? Why has Kahr not taken care of this? I think I read that you can trade in your 7 for a 6, true?
To me, even the six is ugly. It's not a flush fit, which makes it look cheap. I want a mag that looks like it's a part of the gun, smooooth and flush.

[jocko]

first thing I did back yonder was send my two 6 round magaqs to a refinisher and had them finished in matt black chrome. not a wear spot on my mags and they now look like part ofthe gun. I canunderstaqnd why they have that stainless look to them, other than the mags are indeed stainless, but the same mags fit the MK9, so us PM owners if we have to will just have to get them refinished. For me the not so flush fit really is no issue for me. I knew that going into the buy.

More than likely we also (myself included) probalbly over emphasize the issue of the 7 round mags. Kahrs has well over 250K of the PM9 series out there with the 7 orund spare mag, and it certainly is not pandemic IMO. Irritating to some but solveable.

[TucsonMTB]

To add to what Jocko suggested . . .

http://viewsfromtucson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Blacken_PM40_Mag.jpg

Caswell Plating (http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm) offers a black oxide gel kit for stainless (about $20 plus shipping) that gives good results on Kahr magazines. Their page takes a while to load, but check out the video on the Black Oxide page (http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/black.htm). The results above are the more metallic finish the narrator describes as being possible by rubbing with steel wool during the treatment. I did not use any of their sealer since a little gun oil on the outside of the magazine works just fine and is going to happen anyway.

By the way, the picture above is my DLC PM40 with one of the magazines I blackened as well as an untreated magazine to illustrate the color change. The finish has proven very durable so far, but is probably not quite as good as the black chrome Jocko suggested.

However, I like the results and that it was cheap and fast since I did it myself. ;)

[MBFD]

I hate to make my small pocket nine bigger - but what about the Pierce +0?

Jocko you would know - can we send our ugly 7 rd mags back to K for a 6 rd? I prefer to have the same mag every time.

[pistolero_loco]

Purchased a PM9 as an occasional CCW because my Glock 26 which was just a little too chunky. I have been fortunate, no FTF or stove pipes with either 6 or 7 round mags after about 300 rounds. The gun is still very tight however. I let my daughter shoot it and she had trouble racking the slide and couldn't release the slide lock. Overall, I am very very happy with this pistol, it is worth the money. Definitely not a "looker" with the 7 rd mag though.

[TominCA]

I threw my 7 round mags (PM9 - MK9 and P380) in a box in the garage. The little plastic extension is the most cheap ugly thing I could imagine putting on a mag. One worked - one did not,for the P380; but I didn't even bother trying the 9mm mags.

Take a good look at the mag release button:

Make sure gun is not loaded. Take the slide off of the gun, and disassemble the mag.

Put just the mag body in and look down at the mag latch catching in the body (A flashlight helps here). In my 2 P380's the distance the catch intruded into the mag body was quite different on each pistol indicating that this may be a hand fitted part.

Then slide the follower up the mag and see if you feel some resistance. I had some on one gun so I carved up the mag follower a little, right on the the corner where it passes the catch. I sanded it to get it smooth and then in a moment of irresistable urge I took a needle file to the mag catch and made it conform to the curve of the magazine follower a little better. (It actually curved out, into the magazine, rather than in. If you mess up a new catch is cheap and easy to install. An easy fix that worked for me.

[OldLincoln]

I'll give $5 each for up to 4 of those butt ugly 7rd PM9 mags without cracks. PM me with your mailing address and I'll chance a $5 bill to you in a padded envelope that you can tape back up IF you open it carefully with a knife. Just affix the address label and stamp I include inside then mail the mag to me. Any takers?

[Bear549]

If you are caring a second mag, which I always do with only six rounds, why wouldn't you carry the 7 rounder as the second mag or better yet the P9 mag? That way you carrying more rounds.

[wyntrout]

Except for the P380, I carry the largest extended grip Kahr magazine available as a reload. For CCW the shortest is in the pistol.

For reloads, that means 7 rounds for the PM45(total 5+1+7) and for the PM9 the 7 or 8-round extended grip and the usual 6+1. I usually leave the three 8-round extended grip magazines with my CT LaserGrip-equipped and newly re-lamped night-sighted K9 (early '98) with one installed and two reloads. That's my night package at hand for TV watching. I need to get some more of those 8-round extended grip mags. They are excellent and fit both 9mm's. I use them for the range a lot and have had no problems whatsoever with them.

When someone else starts selling them for about $30, I'll get some extended grip higher capacity P380 mags, but $44 plus shipping for those tiny things just chokes me up! Three for the price of two is a better deal and it will come... maybe Cheaper Than Dirt. I've bought a LOT of Kahr magazines from them... can't have too many!

Wynn:)