CM9 Front Night Sight Keeps Breaking Off

[Laetus1]

First time poster: I love KahrTalk! My CM9 has been perfect for me--except that the front Trijicon night sight has broken off twice now while firing it at the range. I ordered the front and back sights from Kahr and had a local gunsmith install them the first time. The very first time at the range a few days later the front sight snapped off during firing. The rear post which receives the screw broke off. I contacted Kahr via email and Jay Dandrea was very responsive. I offered to pay for a replacement front sight since it was possible the smith had over tightened it or something, but Jay sent me the sight at no charge. This time I installed it myself doing everything as per instructions. I allowed the loctite to dry for 24 hours before reassembling the gun. After several trips to the range over the last few weeks, I eventually breathed a sigh of relief believing the new sight would be just fine. But today at the range the same thing happened again; the rear post of the front sight snapped off again.
Needless to say, I will contact Jay at Kahr tomorrow. I will send them the CM9 to have them install a new front night sight this time. But I am spooked about the reliability of this sight now. Of course the dovetailed rear sight has had no problems. The gun has not been dropped or abused in any way. I have seen no evidence of a need to countersink the front sight holes as some have reported. Has anyone else had this happen to them? Thanks in advance for any insight on this, and thanks for the great forum.

[jocko]

try oredering a night sight from Dawson sight people. Theirs seems to work great. actualy never heard of the issue ur having either..

[Bawanna]

I've not heard of it either. If you do send off to Kahr to replace, you can just send the slide and save a ton of money. No need for the whole gun.

Dawson makes really good stuff but Jocko already told you that so theres no need for an echo around here.

[bonjorno2]

Interesting.... well if you are worried about carrying it in a SD situation you prob won't be using sights anyways! Keep us posted and also what type of holster if any are you using?

[gb6491]

...I have seen no evidence of a need to countersink the front sight holes as some have reported....
So the head of the screw was flush with or below the surface of the slide when screwed all the way in? How about the other post; was the end of it flush with or below the surface of the slide?
Regards,
Greg

BTW, welcome to the forums:)

[Laetus1]

Thanks, all, for the speedy replies. In response to questions: I could wish not that I had bought the sights from Dawson, but I want to follow up with Kahr since I've invested the money with them on the sights. I have been using a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster. Both the front post and the rear post with the screw in all the way were below the surface of the slide. I am baffled as to what both the gunsmith and I did wrong. I have already sent the email to Jay at Kahr and will report what happens next.

[Cornhusker]

Sorry to hear of your problems. Hope everything works out okay for you. I just installed the Trijicon Night Sights last night on my CM9 & CW9. I used Blue Loctite. Thought about using Red but Blue works good on most of the applications on my Harley and didn't think I wanted it to be such that I would have trouble getting the sights off if I decided to make a change later on. Will know more in a few days when I get to the range.

[Laetus1]

Jay at Kahr emailed me that I can send the slide to them for their installation of the front night sight. I will have to pay for the sight, installation and shipping. I'm not crazy about that. This assumes my gunsmith and I both did something wrong installing the front sight (a screw and loctite!). But Jay says they will stand behind it if something goes wrong again. Now I'll be without my carry for a while. Is this a good excuse to buy another backup? :)

[TucsonMTB]

Now I'll be without my carry for a while. Is this a good excuse to buy another backup? :)
I like the way you think! :D

[Bob G]

I wonder how many others have had this problem?

[jlottmc]

Sounds good to me.

[Thunder71]

Sorry to hear you're having problems with it, I'm sure it will be taken care of.

One of the differences between the CM9 and PM9, hope this isn't a common problem - but it does help justify the extra money for a PM9.

[BEARDOG]

Jay at Kahr emailed me that I can send the slide to them for their installation of the front night sight. I will have to pay for the sight, installation and shipping. I'm not crazy about that. This assumes my gunsmith and I both did something wrong installing the front sight (a screw and loctite!). But Jay says they will stand behind it if something goes wrong again. Now I'll be without my carry for a while. Is this a good excuse to buy another backup? :)

I have been following your post and I wanted to see if Kahr had or would give up any info on a run of bad sights or something??? I hope not!!! as I just installed two of them on my CM+CW9's.

I can't really come up with a reason that this would have happened 2x??? You say there is clearance right? The screw head is not getting hit by the barrel during recoils correct? Does the sight fit well in the hole spacing?

That said IMO... I would not spend all that $$$ shipping, install labor, and another sight and give up my gun for a week or two to get another one from Kahr. If they won't take care of it for minimal cost, I think a call to Trijicon may be in order to see what they have to say about it. Maybe they would install another new one for you at a reduced or free cost???

If that fails to get a suitable fix then...
I think I would just order a Dawson N.S. and give one of those a try. They attach by peening both post's on the bottom, so It should be a stronger attachment. I was going to get Dawson's for mine but these where so much cheaper I had to go Trijicon.... I hope I did not make a mistake???

[Russ]

I hope I am not making a mistake. Kahr has my cm9 for a look at the slide catching one in 50 rds on a shell and I asked them to install the $80 Trijicon Night Sights they had on their web site.

Please tell me I am not making a mistake. I don't mind the plastic sights I just thought it would be nice to have night sights.

[Laetus1]

I am happy to report that I mailed the slide to Kahr with a letter explaining that twice the rear post (with the screw) on the front night sight I purchased from them had broken off when firing. Just a little over a week after I mailed it to them, I received the slide with a new front night sight. I notice that they also pinned the front post in like the original sight posts. Perhaps this was the problem all along. My gunsmith had installed the first sight without pinning the front post, and I did not have the instructions when I received the second sight and installed it without pinning. Hopefully problem is now solved. And not only did Kahr do a fast job on the turnaround and fedex the slide back to me, I was not charged anything for anything. :) Kudos to Kahr!

[Bob G]

Was there instructions on pinning the front post included with the sights?

[Laetus1]

Bob, there were instructions with the original set of night sights I received. I glanced at them before handing the set off to my gunsmith. Ironically, I didn't think I had the right tools to put on the rear (dovetailed) sight. I can't remember if the instructions made any mention of pinning the front pin of the front sight, but I don't remember seeing that. At any rate, my smith didn't pin it and I didn't get another set of instructions when I get the replacement sight--so I didn't pin it either. But, as I said in an earlier post, Kahr sent the slide back to me with that front post pinned.

[jocko]

best to hve a good sight p;usher to move that back sight in kahrs. They are normally tuffer than nails to move. U made a wise decision IMO.

[mr surveyor]

failure to read and follow the instructions is the same as claiming ignorance of the law....you're going down either way.

when Kahr first announced the availability of the trij sights and offered to ship them for $80 user installed, or $120 factory installed (with 100% guarantee), I took the sure bet and sent my slide to them;)

[Quickdraw]

I have my new front sight in my hands. THe instructions say to make sure the slide holes are clean, put locktight in the hole with the screw, install screw making sure not to crossthread. Done

Nothing about pinning.

[BEARDOG]

I am happy to report that I mailed the slide to Kahr with a letter explaining that twice the rear post (with the screw) on the front night sight I purchased from them had broken off when firing. Just a little over a week after I mailed it to them, I received the slide with a new front night sight. I notice that they also pinned the front post in like the original sight posts. Perhaps this was the problem all along. My gunsmith had installed the first sight without pinning the front post, and I did not have the instructions when I received the second sight and installed it without pinning. Hopefully problem is now solved. And not only did Kahr do a fast job on the turnaround and fedex the slide back to me, I was not charged anything for anything. :) Kudos to Kahr!

Glad you got fixed up.

Could you post a close-up pic of the front pin? I would like to see what they did.

I assume you mean they staked, or flared the post.

FYI The instructions do not indicate that is how they need to be installed.
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/P8120213.jpg

[mr surveyor]

glad I sent my CW9 slide to Kahr for the installation... the instructions make it sound so simple that I could have destroyed the whole pistol:eek:

[Bob G]

I wonder if these instructions will be modified? Thanks for the follow up...

[Laetus1]

Beardog, I did follow those instructions when I installed the front night sight. I was careful to clean the post holes with acetone and letting them dry. I used red loctite which they sent with the sight. I allowed the slide to dry for 24 hours before even touching it again. I can't vouch for how the gunsmith installed it the first time, but that's the way I did it. The only thing I can think went wrong is that I didn't crank the screw in as hard as I could by hand. So, since others are not reporting this problem, I assume that must be what went wrong. Should I ever have this problem again, I will report it here. I have attached a picture of the flared/staked front post of the front night sight after I received the CM9 slide back from Kahr.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102158704807719494731/August132011#5640408132639534562

[gb6491]

Nice photo Lateus1, thanks for sharing it with us. It looks like the CMs have a very good countersink for the sight posts.
Regards,
Greg

[Laetus1]

Greg, I am sorry that I failed to respond to your original question. Yes, the CM9 came with very nice countersink for the holes. I never saw any indication that the barrel was making any contact with the rear post screw. Again, I assume error on my gunsmith and my part since it seems not to have been a countersink issue and others are not reporting the same thing. Kahr treated me right by not charging me for this and I am more than hopeful that I'll not need to post on this particular issue again. BTW, as much as I love my HK P2000sk, it sure was a lot harder to carry concealed with the clothes I had to wear this week than my Kahr CM9!

[Cornhusker]

Beardog, I did follow those instructions when I installed the front night sight. I was careful to clean the post holes with acetone and letting them dry. I used red loctite which they sent with the sight. I allowed the slide to dry for 24 hours before even touching it again. I can't vouch for how the gunsmith installed it the first time, but that's the way I did it. The only thing I can think went wrong is that I didn't crank the screw in as hard as I could by hand. So, since others are not reporting this problem, I assume that must be what went wrong. Should I ever have this problem again, I will report it here. I have attached a picture of the flared/staked front post of the front night sight after I received the CM9 slide back from Kahr.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102158704807719494731/August132011#5640408132639534562

Hmmm, I didn't receive any loctite with the two front sites I purchased for my cw/cm9's. The instructions just said to put loctite in the hole, etc., and never mentioned color. I used Blue, sure hope that wasn't a mistake. I have Red on hand but decided against it. Be awhile b4 I get to the range.

[BEARDOG]

Beardog, I did follow those instructions when I installed the front night sight. I was careful to clean the post holes with acetone and letting them dry. I used red loctite which they sent with the sight. I allowed the slide to dry for 24 hours before even touching it again. I can't vouch for how the gunsmith installed it the first time, but that's the way I did it. The only thing I can think went wrong is that I didn't crank the screw in as hard as I could by hand. So, since others are not reporting this problem, I assume that must be what went wrong. Should I ever have this problem again, I will report it here. I have attached a picture of the flared/staked front post of the front night sight after I received the CM9 slide back from Kahr.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102158704807719494731/August132011#5640408132639534562

Thank's Laetus,
I can't be totally sure but looking at your pic, I am not sure they staked your front post, as it looks (from here:)) just like mine. I wonder if you are just seeing the bottom of the post sticking through.
I Dunno???Do you think yours looks different then mine? Mine is installed just like the instructions say to except I used more loctite, some on the threads, both posts, and under the sight... No staking.
Mine.
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/P8120212.jpg
I am just trying to clarify if they really did stake it as you have cast a good bit of concern with some of us that our new sights are going to go flying off:(. I have not fired mine since my install so i can't say how mine are going to behave. I think it will be fine but???
Thank's

[Laetus1]

Beardog, your picture is much better than my quick Droid X macro shot. I didn't want to hunt down the "real" camera. At any rate, I just went back and examined mine closely, and by golly, I think you are right. I believe mine looks the same as yours and is not flared. I guess I can't remember what it used to look like and thought it had stuck out the bottom of the slide a bit more in the past. On a positive note, I imagine that I am the only one having this particular problem since no one else has corroborated it. I would think if this were a widespread problem we'd hear from others here, and Kahr would be getting flooded with complaints. Let us know how things go with yours after a few range trips. Thanks for the great picture.

[BEARDOG]

Thank's for the confirmation Laetus... I feel better about my new sights again now LOL.

[Quickdraw]

I just put mine on today. It had a Torquex screw not Phillips. I used High Strength Loctite in the screw hole and undre the sight. I sure hope it doesn't need to come back off for the next 12 years.

[Bob G]

Any updates....

[Bob G]

I ordered them with the Novak black rear...

[Laetus1]

I finally had the opportunity to shoot the Kahr with the factory replaced front night sight. Only had time for about 50 rounds, but I was encouraged. I have never been so accurate with this pistol. I don't know if I was just having a good day or if the factory had zeroed the rear sight or what. But I was shooting the CM9 with just as nice groups as I could with my HK p2000sk. So far, so good. Love my Kahr. Should I ever have any trouble again with the front sight, I'll report here.

[les strat]

I just can't see why a totally plastic stock sight will stay put, but an all-metal sight fixed with a screw, second front post, and locktite pops off. Doesn't make sense :der:

Hope mine stays put cause there were no instructions saying anything about pinning anything.

[Ressom]

I just installed the front Trijicon sight I got from Kahr for my CM9. I'll take it out tomorrow and see how good of job I did. :)

I don't think this sight is that bright. I'll have to compare it with some Trijicons and Meprolights I have on other guns. But it will sort of be an apples to oranges comparison because they are probably ten years old.

[Bob G]

Mine will be here Monday..

[les strat]

OK, took mine to the range yesterday, and glad to say that 75 rounds with the Trijicon front night sight (WWB 115 gr and WWB 147 gr JHP), and all is good.

[Ressom]

I posted in another thread that I also took my newly night sighted CM9 to the range yesterday for 200 rounds and the front sight stayed on as expected :)

Also, I compared the brightness to my ten year old trijicons on my glock and 8 year old meprolights on my Kimber and they are indeed brighter... as the should be. I guess I just though they were brighter when new.

All is good!

[Jay]

Jay at Kahr emailed me that I can send the slide to them for their installation of the front night sight. I will have to pay for the sight, installation and shipping. I'm not crazy about that. This assumes my gunsmith and I both did something wrong installing the front sight (a screw and loctite!). But Jay says they will stand behind it if something goes wrong again. Now I'll be without my carry for a while. Is this a good excuse to buy another backup? :)


Absolutely!

.

[Bob G]

I have about 200 rounds fired since I installed mt trijicon front sight.. I used Loctite Ultra Gel Super Glue..This was not done on purpose bought the wrong stuff and decided to give it a try..I do not think they are going anywhere..

[Armson-OEG]

I had issues with offset primer strikes with my CW9. Sent it in and was told i needed a new slide. While there i had them install nite sights. The front was not seated properly, screw was not tight and the whole post/blade was .43 above the slide. I had to fix it. It still bothers me as it seems like a weak setup.KAHRs front sight setup needs improvement. My advice is for you to install them or try some other vendor for the nite sights.

PS The front post was loose it pop in place if i pushed it down, but i could also pull it back up as in the picture. The forward post was not flared/staked i had to do that. Have shot only 80-100 rds thru it so far its good. Time will tell.


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/Armson-Oeg/100_0622.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/Armson-Oeg/100_0607.jpg

[Laetus1]

Wow, Armson-OEG, the way that front sight is installed is disturbing. I cannot even imagine that your pistol would have even hit where you were aiming. Kahr has treated me right with the problems I have had with the front night sight on my cm9. But I must admit that I find myself nervous wondering if the front sight will come off again in the future. I wish they had dovetailed the front sight on the cm and cw series and just charged a little more for them in the first place.

[les strat]

I had issues with offset primer strikes with my CW9. Sent it in and was told i needed a new slide. While there i had them install nite sights. The front was not seated properly, screw was not tight and the whole post/blade was .43 above the slide. I had to fix it. It still bothers me as it seems like a weak setup.KAHRs front sight setup needs improvement. My advice is for you to install them or try some other vendor for the nite sights.

PS The front post was loose it pop in place if i pushed it down, but i could also pull it back up as in the picture. The forward post was not flared/staked i had to do that. Have shot only 80-100 rds thru it so far its good. Time will tell.


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/Armson-Oeg/100_0622.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e301/Armson-Oeg/100_0607.jpg

Mine had a tiny gap between the slide and sight, but not nearly that much. I smeared some of the loctite between the two and cranked it down. I have had about 200 through it since then, and it's tight as a drum.

[gb6491]

That's really some shoddy work that was done on Armson-OEG's pistol:(
FWIW, I believe that when installed correctly these sights are durable. I put them on my CW45 and CW9: both pistols have over 1000 rounds through them subsequent to that and the sights are still rock solid
Regards,
Greg

[bonjorno2]

yeah, there is something not right with that sight being so far off.... glad mine wasn't like that!

[wyntrout]

Dovetailed sights are the first thing I look for when looking at pistols. The rear ones can vary quite a bit with several more cuts, but the front ones are usually similar or close enough to easily alter with a file if you're upgrading the sights.

I know the ones Greg is talking about can be easily installed and be very solid, though. I think they put the new guys on sight installation at Kahr... and even let their kids do some when they visit... it seems... sometimes.:rolleyes:

My P380's NS were poorly done and the front was DOA, sent back unfired the next day... after waiting 11 MONTHS for the NS version to come out!

Wynn:)

[TucsonMTB]

http://kahrtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4382&d=1316984862

Wow, Wynn! Custom engraving on your rear sight. Did you have to pay extra for that? :D

[wyntrout]

The front sight wasn't that banged up, but it was dead, so who knows. The lettering has worn off and its all black now, so no biggie... they work.

Wynn:)