Are you always armed?

[Michael W.]

This started out as a reply to the "EDC Knives" post
but I got meandering into some other thoughts that I decided
to start a new thread.

Whether in the house or out I usually have a Spyderco Paramilitary 2
S30V on me or a the Para 2 Sprint run with Grey Scales and CTS-20P
Steel. This new Carpenter steel is the shiznitz. Has the edge retention of
S90V but much more available and affordable. I also carry a little
Spyderco Ladybug FFG in ZDP-189. This has been my favorite pocket
scalpel lately. Absolutely amazing how sharp this steel can get and stay.

Lately I've been giving a lot of thought to the idea of "always armed" and
find that I'm not really as "ready" as I could be in my comfortable
suburban life.

I work from a home office and generally slob around in gym shorts all day
in front of two 24" monitors. If I have to run out on errands I'll throw
on a pair of cargo shorts and slip my PM9 in my pocket.
For Sunday-go-to-meeting I'll usually wear a suit or a jacket/slacks so
again it's my normal "EDC kit" consisting of PM9 plus a reload, Para2,
4Sevens Quark123 and usually a Spyderco Ladybug in my suit pocket for
about 99% of cutting chores and when I don't want to freak anyone out
whipping out the ParaMilitary.

But I'd say at least good 80% of my week is spent bumming around the
house in gym shorts. I carry a knife but no gun. So even in "nice"
neighborhoods like mine the frequency of home invasions is rising. If
someone started breaking down my front door would I have time to get
my gun? At this point the answer is no.

Not that I'm paranoid or anything, but I like to think that as I get older
and learn more and that I can plug the gaps of knowledge and/or
preparedness that I was too much of a chucklehead to recognize earlier:)

So all this to say, that I've been experimenting carrying my P380 around
in the house in my gym shorts. It's been a little tough since it's heavy
enough to pull my pants down:) So I either need to start wearing
"real" shorts with a belt around the house or possibly find something
lighter to carry.

I've been considering something like a Keltec P32 as an alternative. The
Corbon DPX loading in 32 ACP has some pretty impressive ballistics for a
mouse gun. I imagine in any case, putting 8 rounds of that stuff into a
home invaders face is still going to put a bunch of painful holes in him to
dissuade him from thinking he wants my TV. The P32 will probably
weigh a good 5-6 ounces less loaded than the Kahr P380 loaded.

What do you guys do?

Michael-

[Barth]

Yes

[georgepittenger]

This started out as a reply to the "EDC Knives" post

But I'd say at least good 80% of my week is spent bumming around the
house in gym shorts. I carry a knife but no gun. So even in "nice"
neighborhoods like mine the frequency of home invasions is rising. If
someone started breaking down my front door would I have time to get
my gun? At this point the answer is no.

So all this to say, that I've been experimenting carrying my P380 around
in the house in my gym shorts. It's been a little tough since it's heavy
enough to pull my pants down:) So I either need to start wearing
"real" shorts with a belt around the house or possibly find something
lighter to carry.

I've been considering something like a Keltec P32 as an alternative. The
Corbon DPX loading in 32 ACP has some pretty impressive ballistics for a
mouse gun. I imagine in any case, putting 8 rounds of that stuff into a
home invaders face is still going to put a bunch of painful holes in him to
dissuade him from thinking he wants my TV. The P32 will probably
weigh a good 5-6 ounces less loaded than the Kahr P380 loaded.

What do you guys do?

Michael-

I haven't gotten one yet but you may want to consider a Remora , a waistband friction holster .

From what I've heard a PM9 or the 380 in gym shorts would be fine .

Unless you're just looking for a good excuse to get a new shooter . :cool:

BTW , I've got a Seecamp .32 and I'm not convinced that I wanna fend off a home invasion ( which often seems to involve more than 1 BG ) with that caliper or round count , 6+1 for me . Bigger is better , where practical .

[melissa5]

I'm always armed away from the house. While at home, I have a gun on my nightstand and a gun beside the couch. I also revert to gym shorts or sweatpants at home. Lately I've been thinking about getting a knife with a sheath instead of a folder.

Anyway, I've got a cheap Smart Carry knockoff that could be worn outside the pants and be very comfortable with shorts and sweats. http://www.concealmentconceptsholsters.com/lowrider.html

[MikeyKahr]

I'm generally always armed or have an arm within arm's reach, all except times that I cannot (shower, etc.). Massad Ayoob's first of Ten Commandments of Concealed Carry says it well:

"If You Carry, Always Carry
The criminal is the actor, and the armed citizen is the reactor. The typical violent criminal arms himself only when he intends to do something with it. He picks the time and place of the assault, and initiates the attack. Therefore, he doesn’t need to worry about self-defense.

The armed citizen, the intended victim, does not know when or where that attack will come. Therefore, he or she must be constantly prepared and constantly vigilant. The “pistol-packer” learns to pick a comfortable holster and an appropriately sized handgun, and “dress around the firearm.” After a few days, or a few weeks, it becomes second nature to wear it.

When the defender does not know when the attack will come, the only reasonable expectation of safety lies in being always armed."

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/10-commandments-of-concealed-carry/

[CJB]

I'm always armed away from the house. While at home, I have a gun on my nightstand and a gun beside the couch. I also revert to gym shorts or sweatpants at home. Lately I've been thinking about getting a knife with a sheath instead of a folder.


Ya know.... there are those individuals that regard self defense in one's own home, with a gun or knife, something that ought not be done. Liberals mostly.

I'm sure those same folks would regard defending one's self, and home, with your gym shorts and sweatpants... outright cruel and inhuman behavior! Ewwwwww!

~~~~~

Always armed, yes, with some sort of .45 auto. Kahr, 1911, or Sig P220

My EDC knife - Spiderco Harpy (and has been since before they got famous).

I always have a loaded pistol under my pillow when I sleep, on the nightstand when I'm in bed not sleepin' :rolleyes:. Always on my motorbike, always in any cage-vehicle. Always in public, always at home. Always.

One exception being - when I arrive to work in the AM, I take my .45 out of my pocket, it gets locked in my vehicle. When I get off work at the end of the day, it gets unlocked and back in my pocket. That is the only exception. If allowed to carry at work, I would. If self employed, I would.

Florida laws apply for bars, court houses, police stations, schools, etc.... non of which I frequent, so essentially, I'm always armed.

[JFootin]

Michael, I'll bet the LCP could be worn on a lanyard around the neck. Just hang there about mid-chest. Maybe even the PM9 could be carried this way. After all, you're not worried about concealment around the house, right? If so, you could just wear a loose, untucked shirt over it. All that would be needed is a lanyard attachment point. A little work with a drill or Dremmel at the bottom back of the grip should work. With some creativity, you could do something recessed: a 3/8" wide opening with a bar sitting sideways in it, where you could attach the lanyard clip. When not using it with the lanyard, there would be nothing sticking out in the way; just an opening down there out of the way. Just a brain fart.

I think somebody makes a holster that hangs that way, holding the gun securely but very quick to get the gun when you need it. I think I remember seeing one, but cannot remember where. Does anyone know where one can be found?

[TheTman]

I try not to leave the house unarmed, but I still forget too for a quick run down to the grocery or something. I'm getting better. I only had one incident in the last couple weeks where I went off unarmed. I was leaving my Charter Arms .44 special with a lock on it in my car, but got to feeling uncomfortable about that, so I been bringing it in at night.
My chair has those arms that lift up with storage compartments, tonite there is my .44 special on one side, and my Kahr CW40 on the other. Within a few steps from the chair is most of my "arsenal" including a 20 guage youth model 870, and a MAK-90 with a 30 round clip. And most of the rest of my pistols that I keep in my aparment.
When I get my farmhouse back, afer the divorce I'll have a guns scattered through out the house, and I usually open carry one of my revolvers, either a .357 of the .44 mag, or sometimes just my Buckmark .22. When I am working outside. The biggest threat was feral dogs, I've been greeted by a pair of hungry Rottweilers, a Doberman, a St. Bernard, and some German Shepard to Lab sized mutts. Hence the need for something a little bigger than a .22. I should dispatch them, but usually fire a warning shot into the ground so I don't have to bury them. I should help the sheep farmer down the way by going ahead and killing them. He loses a lot of lambs to these dogs, and he always shoots to kill.
Since they paved the road, there has been a great reduction in the number of dogs showing up. I guess they are dumping them further out in the county now. There are always the rabid skunks to watch out for so I like to be armed or have my Ruger 10-22 very handy. It works well on skunks from a distance. I have come home at night and seen bobcats, but they don't come out much in the day, and they seem frightened of humans anyway. It was the feral dogs that I feared the most, and of course two legged predators. I live about a mile from the interstate, it would be easy for a criminal to get off at my exit and look for an ez target for some quick cash.

[melissa5]

Ya know.... there are those individuals that regard self defense in one's own home, with a gun or knife, something that ought not be done. Liberals mostly.

I'm sure those same folks would regard defending one's self, and home, with your gym shorts and sweatpants... outright cruel and inhuman behavior! Ewwwwww!



LOL! It's all in how you use what you've got! :p Distract them with your booty shorts and then knife them in the back. :D Ya know...you could wear a thong/speedo and get the same result. :eek:

[CJB]

I think my own gym shorts and sweat pants would certainly have a distracting (smell) and huge deterrent factor!~ If I just train 'em to kick butt like I trained 'em to walk to the washin' machine on their own, I'd have it made!

[knkali]

always armed outside the house gun and edged weapon. In house, not on my person but where they could be needed.
BTW I am now a Spyderco fan! Always thought they where good value but after getting one and handling it as my EDC, I think they are (as Michael W says) shiznitz. Got the Endura 4 and tomorow my Police 3 should arrive.

[cgo99]

This started out as a reply to the "EDC Knives" post
but I got meandering into some other thoughts that I decided
to start a new thread.

Whether in the house or out I usually have a Spyderco Paramilitary 2
S30V on me or a the Para 2 Sprint run with Grey Scales and CTS-20P
Steel. This new Carpenter steel is the shiznitz. Has the edge retention of
S90V but much more available and affordable. I also carry a little
Spyderco Ladybug FFG in ZDP-189. This has been my favorite pocket
scalpel lately. Absolutely amazing how sharp this steel can get and stay.

Lately I've been giving a lot of thought to the idea of "always armed" and
find that I'm not really as "ready" as I could be in my comfortable
suburban life.

I work from a home office and generally slob around in gym shorts all day
in front of two 24" monitors. If I have to run out on errands I'll throw
on a pair of cargo shorts and slip my PM9 in my pocket.
For Sunday-go-to-meeting I'll usually wear a suit or a jacket/slacks so
again it's my normal "EDC kit" consisting of PM9 plus a reload, Para2,
4Sevens Quark123 and usually a Spyderco Ladybug in my suit pocket for
about 99% of cutting chores and when I don't want to freak anyone out
whipping out the ParaMilitary.

But I'd say at least good 80% of my week is spent bumming around the
house in gym shorts. I carry a knife but no gun. So even in "nice"
neighborhoods like mine the frequency of home invasions is rising. If
someone started breaking down my front door would I have time to get
my gun? At this point the answer is no.

Not that I'm paranoid or anything, but I like to think that as I get older
and learn more and that I can plug the gaps of knowledge and/or
preparedness that I was too much of a chucklehead to recognize earlier:)

So all this to say, that I've been experimenting carrying my P380 around
in the house in my gym shorts. It's been a little tough since it's heavy
enough to pull my pants down:) So I either need to start wearing
"real" shorts with a belt around the house or possibly find something
lighter to carry.

I've been considering something like a Keltec P32 as an alternative. The
Corbon DPX loading in 32 ACP has some pretty impressive ballistics for a
mouse gun. I imagine in any case, putting 8 rounds of that stuff into a
home invaders face is still going to put a bunch of painful holes in him to
dissuade him from thinking he wants my TV. The P32 will probably
weigh a good 5-6 ounces less loaded than the Kahr P380 loaded.

What do you guys do?

Michael-
And here I thought that I was the only one that made long and complicated rationalizations when I want to justify that I "need" another gun.
Michael W. I say get the the new P32, it sounds perfectly rational to me that you should get a new gun instead of new shorts.
I know I'd choose the gun over the shorts any day. ;)

[Barth]

BTW I am now a Spyderco fan!

+1 on that!
Spyderco is a personal favorite of mine too.
One Delica and two Pacific Salt H1s

[mr surveyor]

safe in your own home?????

it takes only 5-10 seconds for your door to be kicked in and one or more thugs to be in the room... can you clear the lazyboy and make it to the firearm in that length of time? If I'm awake, I have a firearm on my person. I gave up wearing gym shorts and cushy feeling stuff several years ago, but will put on a pair of cut-offs occassionally (at home only)...and in goes the IWB pistol.

leave home without it?????

I don't even stay home without it being at least at arm's reach (which case is in bed or "in the branch office"). As was already said.... we don't choose the time for a violent attacker to complicate our lives. If you believe that it's only necessary to carry where you think trouble might occur, that's excellent reasoning to carry always. Trouble can happen anywhere, anytime without warning.

As for knives... I'm too old to play that game in most cases. In the event of a face off, I'll have a gun - period! If for some silly reason of not paying attention to my surroundings and am attacked from behind, I may wish I had one of those flick yer bic knives to jab the attacker in the thigh..if I could reach the knife. If you're in a place where you just can't carry a firearm, and knives are acceptable, then ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Paranoid? Nope. Confident? Mostly. Armed? Always.

[Bawanna]

My PM45 is always on me, always. I just checked and my other ankle rig fits it with the just installed CTC laser so it will still always be on me. I've been putting it on the counter under a towel when I'm in the shower lately, no more taking it in inside a double zip lock bag. I figure in the shower with no sound booster in my ear I'm toast anyhow, don't want to see it coming.
I always got a blade on me too mostly cause I got a little pack on the front and back of the chair so several is no issue.
And NOW, thanks to Greg I got an AG Russell hanging around my neck.........

[mr surveyor]

I do carry knives when I have pants on. Actually at least four different knives, or devices with knife blade. In the field I also often add a fixed blade. But, I don't consider any of my everyday carry blades to be dedicated to SD uses. Been carrying pocket knives since 1st grade, about the time we added them other two stars to the flag, and probably not more than a handful of days in there than one of them blades or tools didn't see a useful need. I've reached that time in life that I'm more prone to carry a cane for SD uses:D

[Michael W.]

And here I thought that I was the only one that made long and complicated rationalizations when I want to justify that I "need" another gun.
Michael W. I say get the the new P32, it sounds perfectly rational to me that you should get a new gun instead of new shorts.
I know I'd choose the gun over the shorts any day. ;)


Crap, you just burst my finely constructed bubble.......:)

M-

[CJB]

My PM45 is always on me

Good man!

[Michael W.]

Thanks for some ideas and hearing how you manage it.
(Although the imagery of Bawanna in the shower without his hearing
aid is a little disturbing....:eek:

Before I had kids I always had guns stashed around the house
but that practice had to be modified when the babies came along.

Right now my youngest is still only 10 and while I trust her, I don't
trust her little playmates that romp around the house on any given
afternoon.

The other catalyst to all of this pondering (aside from having a slight case
of GAS......Gun Acquisition Syndrome:) is that I recently got my wife the
Ruger LC9 and just installed a pistol safe in her scroll desk that lives in
the family room. So just going through that exercise and talking through
some scenarios with her has juggled me out of my complacency to start
thinking things through again. When the kids were little I had to put their
safety first, but they're not so much an issue anymore. Both of the
boys shoot...as will the daughter one day soon so everyone in the house
knows the 4 rules of gun safety and everyone knows both mommy and
daddy are usually armed and it's no big deal.

I suppose the easiest thing to do is just shut up and put some pants on:)

Sigh.......but my "spare tire" will miss those gym shorts!

M-

[mr surveyor]

pants a problem?... just buy 'em big and wear suspenders

it's a fashion statement:D

[Jeremiah/Az]

I live alone way out in the boonies with 3 big dogs that bark when they hear a mouse fart. The law is a long way away. I wear Wranglers with a belt & 'spenders. My PM9 & OWB holster are always on me if I have my britches on. It goes on the night stand when I go to bed. There are guns hidden in every room, yes, even the bathrooms. A little NAA .22 with snake shot in it goes in my pocket for rattlesnakes when I go outside.:)

[gwbiker]

I'm in Arizona, so many of us either CC or OC. For pocket carry it's the Kahr P380 - for discreet OC it's Ruger LC9 or SIG P239-9. And for home protection, SIG P220 or RIA 1911, .45acp.

[Dietrich]

If I leave my home I`m armed and that includes working in the yard,walking to the mailbox,etc.While in my home there is usually a firearm within a step or two unless I`m in the shower.The small fishing village I live in now has some of the nicest Christian people you could ever hope to meet.It also has the sorriest,most common pieces of white trash I have ever encountered.The upside of knowing these lowlife scum is that is has erased any thought of racial bigotry I might have been harboring.Compared to these vermin,any race,color or creed would be an upgrade.Except possibly the French...

[steve666]

I've been known to say "I'm sometimes armed, but always dangerous" but the truth is that I am almost always armed!

[hdsteve69]

I always carry a knife everywhere I go except places that you legally can't. Right now I dont have my ccw (should see it in the mail with in the next 18days) So I carry open everywhere I can with out people freaking out ,walmart,grocery store places like that I dont, when I do get my ccw I will carry everywhere it is legal including my place of employment seeing as there is no rules in the employee handbook that says I can't. When I'm at home I have a gun either on me or somewhere with in imediate reach.

[adventures47129]

I am usually armed all the time. I always wear big boy pants, so I do not have the problem you have in shorts. LOL... (just teasing). I wear suspenders around the house and keep my CW9 in my pocket. On my night stand, I also keep my Judge Public defender. There is usually a P380 in the drawer in the living room. The guns in the closet are not loaded. hmmm... now I sound like the weird guy down the street...LOL

[johnh]

First, you could always carry using a rig like this:

http://stellarrigs.com/gun_neckchain_rigs.html

Stellar Rigs makes exceptional holsters, and the neck chain option would remove your pants from the equation. On the subject of pants, I always wear cargo shorts in hot weather. They are plenty cool and have a lot of pockets for carrying stuff. You might adjust your wardrobe and gain some options. I tend to have a cell phone, keys, pocket knife, CCW stuff (when not at work), etc. Gym shorts just won't work for me.

[jeepster09]

Thankfully I live in a state that apparently is more safe than most.....I don't need to always be armed. I carry if going into an area that warrants it, otherwise common sense helps a lot.

[Ol'coot]

I live in a semi-rural area with a very, very low crime rates but I and my wife are armed if we are awake and not in the shower, A night there are weapons with in arms length of both my wife and I. If in the shower our weapons are close by and easy to access. We are firm believers that No mater how safe an area you live in crime and BG are still there, You may live your entire life with out either ever touching you but just like life insurance and a spare tire in my vehicle I keep both because I do not know what will happen tomorrow, today or even in the next 5 minutes and being prepared to take care of myself and my family in case of the worst and not needing it is a much better scenario that being unprepared as you my not get a second chance. Life is full of choices, we make hundreds each day and they each affect your life even thought they may not be noticed. I choose to have a plan, train hard and often and refuse to be a victim by being naive thinking that the bad things in life are always going to happen to someone else.

[Michael W.]

First, you could always carry using a rig like this:

http://stellarrigs.com/gun_neckchain_rigs.html

Stellar Rigs makes exceptional holsters, and the neck chain option would remove your pants from the equation. On the subject of pants, I always wear cargo shorts in hot weather. They are plenty cool and have a lot of pockets for carrying stuff. You might adjust your wardrobe and gain some options. I tend to have a cell phone, keys, pocket knife, CCW stuff (when not at work), etc. Gym shorts just won't work for me.

Hey John,

Those stellar rigs look pretty cool!

But you're probably right about just wearing some decent "big boy pants"
(as Steve put it:) around the house instead of my skimpy knit gym
shorts.

(I still want a new gun though........:)

Michael-

[wyntrout]

Thankfully I live in a state that apparently is more safe than most.....I don't need to always be armed. I carry if going into an area that warrants it, otherwise common sense helps a lot.

That's starting to sound like not buying insurance until you're going to need it. Stuff happens and if you're going where you might need a gun... why?? What about the common sense??

Jus' sayin'.

Wynn:)

[LaP]

Always armed...yup.

I've heard comparisons to driving without a spare tire or keeping a fire extiguisher handy.
People have stated that they only carry when going into a dangerous situation. :confused: As Clint Smith has said, if I knew I'm going to a gunfight I'd just stay at home.

Having lived in New York most of my life, I have read about too many home invasions. My daughter lost two highschool classmates to a murdering homeinvader. A life-lesson was learned thru tragedy.

[wyntrout]

Clint's quote is what I was thinking, too.

Wynn:)

[Vanzpp]

I'm always armed except whenever I have to go to the doctor's office or an airport.

[jeepster09]

That's starting to sound like not buying insurance until you're going to need it. Stuff happens and if you're going where you might need a gun... why?? What about the common sense??

Jus' sayin'.

Wynn:)


Do you buy MOTORCYCLE insurance when going out on a boat? Why carry a gun in a totally known safe area? COMMON SENSE is staying out of known problem areas, COMMON SENSE is steering clear of confrontation and trusting your instincts. COMMON SENSE is walking on other side of street when you see a situation that may not look good.;)
There is a big difference from downtown PHOENIX, HOUSTON, ATLANTA and BLOOMINGTON Minnesota. The first 3 I would want to be armed, the last one you can even walk at night [staying alert helps no matter where you are aka COMMON SENSE].
Another thing that makes me chuckle is posts that say you need to carry multiple spare magazines with like 30 or so extra rounds! Holy cow! After about 3 rounds are fired in MOST areas you will be swarmed by LEO's [not all....MOST]. :59:

[wyntrout]

I had a boat... bought towing insurance as well as regular. If you know nothing about maritime law or the cost of a tow, you would be in for a big shock should you ever need a tow. And if you know nothing of salvage laws or liability in towing, that could be a be shock, too.
I've traveled quite a bit, having spent 20 years in the Air Force, and I have no desire to do any more because the world has changed and I feel safer when I can protect myself... immediately... when seconds count, and "help" is minutes away.
Whenever I leave the house I'm armed. It sure makes sense to have protection and not need it, instead of only having regret, should you need it and not have it.
I live in a "safe" neighborhood and I can see a police car sitting in front of a house in any direction and almost every street in the area... indeed, there's one across the street and one behind my house in the park where there's a resident cop.
I still see people walking through the area that could be casing the area and I could get jumped by a rabid raccoon any time I step out the door. I see them all of the time and have talked to them in the dark thinking they were some of the local cats that parade around our house 24/7.
I don't abdicate my self defense to anyone else... especially when police response, IF you have the time to call for help, would be at best minutes away.
If you want to count on others, who aren't present, to come to your defense or deter criminal activity in your vicinity, that's your right, and I hope that continues to work for you, but I want to control my safety and leave as little as possible to chance. To ME, that's common sense... to prepare for the unexpected and be ready to act, rather than taking a chance that things will always go as you wish... without problems. In the military, we train and train for the worst, so that normal ops are a piece of cake, but we're prepared for any emergency through repetitious training.

:blah::typing:

Wynn:)

[CJB]

I buy insureance bucause nothing is predictable. I cant always drive on safe roads or just avoid other traffic. Precisely because criminal intent is one of preying on a victem..... I remain armed. The next stranger at walmart could be some jackwagon off his meds and the next to make the evening news. I want to make the news too.... As a survivor!

[TucsonMTB]

I'm in Mr. Jeepster09's camp. Yeah, I am almost always armed because I drop a PM40 in my pocket in the morning and forget about it. But, since we live on the polite side of Tucson (Oro Valley) it's not necessary.

It's a little bit like that hundred dollar bill you fold up and stuff in your wallet with the credit cards. It's nice to have just in case . . . but, not really needed.

It's a good feeling having a .40 S&W delivery device in my pocket, but I certainly don't feel uncomfortable without it. If I need a police officer, all I have to do is exceed the speed limit by about three miles per hour. Any of you fortunate enough to have visited Oro Valley know what I mean. :D

[Bill K]

Do you buy MOTORCYCLE insurance when going out on a boat? Why carry a gun in a totally known safe area? COMMON SENSE is staying out of known problem areas, COMMON SENSE is steering clear of confrontation and trusting your instincts. COMMON SENSE is walking on other side of street when you see a situation that may not look good.;)
There is a big difference from downtown PHOENIX, HOUSTON, ATLANTA and BLOOMINGTON Minnesota. The first 3 I would want to be armed, the last one you can even walk at night [staying alert helps no matter where you are aka COMMON SENSE].
Another thing that makes me chuckle is posts that say you need to carry multiple spare magazines with like 30 or so extra rounds! Holy cow! After about 3 rounds are fired in MOST areas you will be swarmed by LEO's [not all....MOST]. :59:

The one time I had to use my gun, to stop from being stabbed, it was in one of the best neighborhoods in the city and during broad daylight @ ~ 12:50 PM. The "probability" of a confrontation had to be very small.

I understand your position but in evaluating "risk" you need/must/should not only consider the probability of something happening but also the potential negative consequences should that something happen.

I respect your position. Most of my family, friends and neighbor's do not even own a single firearm much less think about carrying for SD purposes.

Respectfully,
Bill K.

[Bawanna]

I think alot of the decision to be armed all the time is influenced by your actions.
If you see a pack of dirt bags beating up a little old lady or raping a young girl are you going to defend them or cross the street avoid a confrontation, not video it so you dont get beat up by cops, maybe call 911 and report a disturbance.

I'd say the vast majority now days will cross the street. A guy could die on the side walk and lay there for days with people walking around him anymore, nobody wants to get involved.

I'm a get involved guy. If the police are involved or things are being taken care of I'm gone, but bad guys doing harm or even vandalizing property will have me involved. In the vandalizing scenario I'll probably just be watching till the cavalry shows up but a rape or a beat down I'll be right in there.

If I see officers in what looks like a questionable situation I'll often times park back aways and just watch to make sure things are ok.

Chivalry ain't dead and any damsel in distress has no fear when Bawanna is around.

Little stuff like a car broke down on the freeway, it's best to let the police handle it but if it's really hot or cold I'll sometimes stop. I know I can't do much being a derelict but by stopping myself maybe a dirtbag with ill intent may drive on by. Course the person broke down could be bait to trap you with ill intent. It's a scarey world.

[wyntrout]

It's like fishing or hunting... you go where the prey live. Criminals sometimes choose to go where there are easy pickings... wealthier areas where there's complacency... and "no crime". It happens all of the time.

And one reload is like a spare tire, or I guess you don't believe in those, either.

Magazines fail or can be inadvertantly dropped from the gun... or, you might have needed to use "covering" or distracting fire to get to safety. After all, it's not like the range where you stand upright and take your time shooting at a paper target. It's much better to have too much ammo, than not enough.

I'm not an optimist, nor entirely a pessimist, but I know I can't always depend on things going my way. I DID spend a little time in the Cub Scouts and learned it was better to "be prepared". Being prepared is not that hard and the very LEAST I can do for myself and my friends & family. I want to be an asset, not a liability, if anything happens.

Wynn:)

[jeepster09]

I think alot of the decision to be armed all the time is influenced by your actions.
If you see a pack of dirt bags beating up a little old lady or raping a young girl are you going to defend them or cross the street avoid a confrontation, not video it so you dont get beat up by cops, maybe call 911 and report a disturbance.

I'd say the vast majority now days will cross the street. A guy could die on the side walk and lay there for days with people walking around him anymore, nobody wants to get involved.

I'm a get involved guy. If the police are involved or things are being taken care of I'm gone, but bad guys doing harm or even vandalizing property will have me involved. In the vandalizing scenario I'll probably just be watching till the cavalry shows up but a rape or a beat down I'll be right in there.

If I see officers in what looks like a questionable situation I'll often times park back aways and just watch to make sure things are ok.

Chivalry ain't dead and any damsel in distress has no fear when Bawanna is around.

Little stuff like a car broke down on the freeway, it's best to let the police handle it but if it's really hot or cold I'll sometimes stop. I know I can't do much being a derelict but by stopping myself maybe a dirtbag with ill intent may drive on by. Course the person broke down could be bait to trap you with ill intent. It's a scarey world.


Sadly there was a day I would not hesitate to intervene......WE NOW HAVE TO MANY BAD ATTORNEYS that have made me think twice about jumping in.....I don't know if I would? or would not? :confused: intervene with my firearm. In today's sad world, you most likely would lose everything defending your actions in a court case for intervening.:(
Now......if we could get rid of the bad lawyers and judges......the choice would be clear and easy.:4:

[jeepster09]

It's like fishing or hunting... you go where the prey live. Criminals sometimes choose to go where there are easy pickings... wealthier areas where there's complacency... and "no crime". It happens all of the time.

And one reload is like a spare tire, or I guess you don't believe in those, either.

Magazines fail or can be inadvertantly dropped from the gun... or, you might have needed to use "covering" or distracting fire to get to safety. After all, it's not like the range where you stand upright and take your time shooting at a paper target. It's much better to have too much ammo, than not enough.

I'm not an optimist, nor entirely a pessimist, but I know I can't always depend on things going my way. I DID spend a little time in the Cub Scouts and learned it was better to "be prepared". Being prepared is not that hard and the very LEAST I can do for myself and my friends & family. I want to be an asset, not a liability, if anything happens.

Wynn:)


There still are areas that are mostly crime free......Florida is not one of them. Carrying a spare tire is COMMON SENSE, carying four spare tires so all your flats COULD be changed is not. I also spent time as a LEO in a big city, I know how to be prepared.:behindsofa:

[wyntrout]

With these single-stack Kahrs, one spare extended mag is enough. I don't carry a spare around the house, but most of my guns are "ready to use"... no kids or friends who visit with kids.

We have a lot of views that we share here and it's great that we can. I like that we can express our feelings freely, as adults here, and I'm not calling anybody names or saying they are wrong because we have different views on things. I spend too much time here, but not as much as I'd like. I have to pretend I'm doing "productive stuff" around the house, though it's obvious to my wife... or anyone else, that I don't do much.:D
Pulling someone's chain or poking them a bit can be fun, but not intended to put anyone down. Some of us enjoy this more than others. :rolleyes:

Take care, and may the "force" be with you! \\// "Live long and prosper"!

Wynn:)

[Michael W.]

And just to bring some closure to this thread.......I 'splained my situation to the wife
and she sent me off to Kohl's with a handful of coupons. Just got home
with a couple of new pairs of "Big Boy Pants" to handle my "around the house"
EDC, which for now is my awesome little P380.

Michael-

[mr surveyor]

hhhmmmm... I didn't see a smiley face;)

[BuckeyeBlast]

I'm armed 95% of the time. I disarm when I'm in the gym, and last night I left my gun at home for the first time in a long time... I went out and got hammered. :)

[Barth]

I'm armed 95% of the time. I disarm when I'm in the gym, and last night I left my gun at home for the first time in a long time... I went out and got hammered. :)

I actually carry around my S&W 342 ti 38 in my gym bag. Keeping it at arms reach while I work out. I'm hopeless - LOL!

[Rainman48314]

That's starting to sound like not buying insurance until you're going to need it. Stuff happens and if you're going where you might need a gun... why?? What about the common sense??

Jus' sayin'.

Wynn:)
Some argue that it sounds bad if in court you don't always carry. A case can be made that you were looking for trouble when you carry selectively. Just saying..

[Rainman48314]

Sadly there was a day I would not hesitate to intervene......WE NOW HAVE TO MANY BAD ATTORNEYS that have made me think twice about jumping in.....I don't know if I would? or would not? :confused: intervene with my firearm. In today's sad world, you most likely would lose everything defending your actions in a court case for intervening.:(
Now......if we could get rid of the bad lawyers and judges......the choice would be clear and easy.:4:
Its too easy to blame attorneys. Let's start with the guy who hired them for a questionable lawsuit. Blaming the attorney is no different than blaming the gun or the fork (in Rosie O'Donnel's case). He's just a tool (no pun intended).

[LaP]

Some argue that it sounds bad if in court you don't always carry. A case can be made that you were looking for trouble when you carry selectively. Just saying..

I never thought of it that way. Very interesting.
It gives me just one more reason to never go unarmed...at home or out-&-about.

[Barth]

I never thought of it that way. Very interesting.
It gives me just one more reason to never go unarmed...at home or out-&-about.

When people ask me why I'm armed all the time my answer is -
I just don't trust my Magic Eight Ball to give me early warning
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SLhJ7sf7uVs/TBvAF8qKN5I/AAAAAAAAAaE/VHhqpplp9EI/s1600/magic_8ball.jpg

[cgo99]

And just to bring some closure to this thread.......I 'splained my situation to the wife
and she sent me off to Kohl's with a handful of coupons. Just got home
with a couple of new pairs of "Big Boy Pants" to handle my "around the house"
EDC, which for now is my awesome little P380.

Michael-
I knew it was not going to be good when I read "I 'splained to the wife"; that was your mistake, if the wife gets involved the solution is most certainly going to be new pants!!!! what were you expecting?:confused:
Oh well a missed opportunity (read excuse) to get another much needed gun.

[wyntrout]

An email from my buddy:

An Arizona Department of Safety Officer pulled over a pick-up truck owner for a faulty taillight. When the officer approached the driver, the man behind the wheel handed the officer his driver’s license, insurance card and a concealed weapon carry permit.

The officer took all the documents, looked them over and said. "Mr. Smith, I see you have a CCP. Do you have any weapons with you?"

The driver replied, " Yes sir, I have a .357 handgun in a hip holster, a .45 in the glove box and a .22 derringer in my boot."

The officer looked at the driver and asked, "Anything else?"

"Yes sir, I have a Mossberg 500 12 gauge and an AR-15 behind the seat."

The officer asked if the man was driving to or from a shooting range and the man said he wasn't, so the officer bent over and looked into the driver's face and said "Mr. Smith, you're carrying quite a few guns.


May I ask what you are afraid of?

Mr. Smith locked eyes with the officer and calmly answered,
"Not a f***ing thing!"

[JFootin]

Good one!
http://kahrtalk.com/picture.php?albumid=74&pictureid=497

[Michael W.]

I knew it was not going to be good when I read "I 'splained to the wife"; that was your mistake, if the wife gets involved the solution is most certainly going to be new pants!!!! what were you expecting?:confused:
Oh well a missed opportunity (read excuse) to get another much needed gun.

Never fear, where there's an obsession there's always a way......just pulled the trigger on this baby from Davidson's......:)

M-

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ProdImageSm/p-32-t-t.JPG

[FTG2Voge]

I always have at least one knife on me and except while at work, either a 1911 in an IWB or a CW9 in a DeSantis Nemisis in a cargo pocket in my 511s.

[rjt123]

I always have a loaded pistol under my pillow when I sleep, on the nightstand when I'm in bed not sleepin' :rolleyes:. Always on my motorbike, always in any cage-vehicle. Always in public, always at home. Always.

One exception being - when I arrive to work in the AM, I take my .45 out of my pocket, it gets locked in my vehicle. When I get off work at the end of the day, it gets unlocked and back in my pocket. That is the only go through the whole unlock the safe routineexception. If allowed to carry at work, I would. If self employed, I would.

+1 on that, CJB. I can't carry at work either, but that's the only time I'm not armed. If I go out for lunch, I'll go through the whole unlock the safe routine. I only recently "woke up" and decided to take responsibility for my own safety...but I'm awake now, and I'm armed.

[JFootin]

Never fear, where there's an obsession there's always a way......just pulled the trigger on this baby from Davidson's......:)

M-

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ProdImageSm/p-32-t-t.JPG

I think Bud's would be a LOT cheaper than Davidson's. Just saying...Could be wrong...

P32 $237 + FS
P3AT $240 + FS

[jdlott74]

Depends on what where I am. If I'm out and about in town, I am usually always armed. The only time I'm not is when I'm at work and can't carry inside. I know it doesn't do me any good in the truck, but they have a no weapons policy.

If I'm around the house, most of the time I have it nearby. I used to not do that but I'm getting better.

[Michael W.]

I think Bud's would be a LOT cheaper than Davidson's. Just saying...Could be wrong...

P32 $237 + FS
P3AT $240 + FS

Kel-Tec P-32 Cerakote Tan - Bud's Inventory = 0

Let's say it was $250 (very likely more) at Bud's + 3% Credit Card fee =
$257.50 (I never do ANY internet transactions without the protection of
a credit card) Let's say it ships free from Bud's to nearest FFL that won't
rape me. That's 18 miles + 2.50 in tolls each way plus gas + $25 FFL. = let's call it $292.50

Kel-Tec P-32 Cerakote Tan Davidson's Inventory = 12
Delivered to a Davidson's dealer near me. 9 miles, no toll roads.
Total out the door price $295.51

So save $3 for a gun that's not in stock?

Never second guess a man's choices until you've lived in his
"big boy pants"......just sayin....:rolleyes:

Michael-

[mr surveyor]

hey, Big Boy, how's them pants fittin'?:)

you done good analyzing the "cost". Personally I ain't gonna order anything over the net if I can get one of my ffl buds to do it. I'd lots rather make the 10 minute drive just around the corner and let my bud make his meager 10% than deal with the other hassles... besides, it keeps 'em local.

surv

[Michael W.]

hey, Big Boy, how's them pants fittin'?:)

you done good analyzing the "cost". Personally I ain't gonna order anything over the net if I can get one of my ffl buds to do it. I'd lots rather make the 10 minute drive just around the corner and let my bud make his meager 10% than deal with the other hassles... besides, it keeps 'em local.

surv

Man, I wish I had some FFL buds 10 min away...heck I wish I had a decent small shop that I could give my business too without having to bend over and hold the jar too. Having said that, I've pumped enough business into the local Orlando metro gunshops that I don't feel bad doing and online deal here and there. Plus, these Davidson's shops get the margin anyway.

M-

[mr surveyor]

living in a "small town environment" does have it's advantages. I have at least a half dozen small shops within 20 minute drive, and my favorite hangout that's 10 minutes away is farther out of the city limits than I am. He doesn't open his shop (beside his home) until 10:30 or 11:00 am, but hangs out there until after midnight most nights. I've spent many a late hour (and a few dollars) out there talking guns, politics, and other subjects, while enjoying an "adult beverage" and a hand rolled cigar. For several years it was 1-2 visits per week, until the obomanation set in and his business all but died after the "post election buying frenzy".

Those of us in "samll town America" have a difficult time relating to those that live in the "big city" conditions. I'm sure the it's the same the other way around. Most of us that grew up around here are just now realizing that the old adage of "if you can't find it at Joe's Hardware, they either don't make it, or you don't really need it" may not be so true anymore. Screw Wal-Mart, I miss "Joe's Hardware"... but I digress (as usual)

[QuercusMax]

I, too, have to agree with Jeepster09.

I have guns because I like them and it is my right to have them. I have a carry permit because I wanted to exercise my right to have one. But I have never "carried" any of my firearms - not once.

In over half a century on this crazy planet, thankfully I have never once been in a situation where I wished I had had a gun on me. Of course, such a situation could arise at any time, and I accept that as a risk. Life is full of risks, most of which can be minimized.

Someday I might just holster up and carry one of my little friends with me, maybe just to exercise my licensed right to do so, but here is why I have not done so thus far:

1. Like Jeepster09 pointed out, there are just too many lawyers these days, many of whom are out there just for personal gain (why ARE there so many personal injury lawyers advertising all the time?)

2. Until recently, I lived in Minnesota like Jeepster09. It does seem a very safe place, which might have colored my thinking. It is also true that in Minnesota one of the 4 considerations for use of a firearm for defense is that the user has the duty to retreat if at all possible, which is always the right thing to do because nothing good can ever come from escalating a confrontation.

3. Something I have always practiced, and that was dwelt upon at length by one of the best self-defense trainers I have ever encountered, is to maintain high situational awareness at all times, i.e. always be watching for, anticipating and avoiding trouble. Having lived abroad many years in countries where pickpockets and other such types were common, this simple practice always kept me out of trouble when many other expatriate Americans who weren't paying attention lost their wallets or worse.

4. Another thing that was impressed upon me in the self-defense training I have taken is that *anyone* who uses a firearm in a public situation - even if in obvious self-defense - is going to come under a lot of scrutiny by law enforcement and our legal system, and may have to endure a lot of legal consequences and costs even if subsequently exonerated. This can be almost entirely avoided if you are not carrying compared to someone who is.

5. And lastly, perhaps mostly importantly, I don't like the idea of living in - or even going to - a place where I feel that I need to carry a gun to be safe. Those are not places I want to be.


Make no mistake. I like guns a lot and have many of them, and I strongly believe in the right of US citizens to keep and bear arms. I just haven't ever found the need to carry one around in public to feel safe, and I hope I never do.

[wyntrout]

Depending on the situation, I want to have a choice if I'm ever in a position where I or anyone else might be facing death or injury... a choice other than awaiting my turn to be shot or whatever. The massacre at Luby's Cafeteria is always the first thing to pop into my mind... especially when being seated in a restaurant. These days some punks think getting rid of witnesses is a good idea and love being faced with sheeple who make their task easy.

Maybe you'll never have to regret being able to defend yourself or loved ones because you thought you didn't NEED to carry concealed. I certainly hope so, but I'm doing more than hoping... taking responsibility for my own defense and those I care about. Situational awareness and keeping up with developing situations might help you avoid a situation... or maybe not. I hope that I never have to use my weapon, but I'm darn sure going to carry one as much as possible... not counting on "providence".

I'm 65 years old and I want to be as much in control of my destiny as possible. I have no hand-to-hand fighting skills and have two cracked rotator cuffs from skiing, so I have no illusions about kicking anyone's butt, but I can sure as heck defend myself with my little buddies' help... and I won't be having any mental anguish over taking some scum's life. It's like on the battlefield... you do what you have to do to stay alive and defend your buddies.

Some people will die when they start trying to make that decision at the last moment... a fatal hesitation. I HAVE thought about what it takes to shoot another human being... and some people just need more than verbal persuasion. I'm so glad that we no longer have a duty to retreat from the BG's as they ply their chosen trade. Resistance, especially armed resistance, keeps a lot of would-be crooks from thinking everyone is an easy mark. Florida has certainly become safer for travelers with more CCW and better laws. Our state is just now finally getting rid of the illegal local ordinances and laws against CCW just because there were NO PENALTIES. Now the people who make and enforce those illegal laws can be fined personally $5,000 and even sued by citizens who feel their rights have been violated. Local governments are scrambling to get rid of those illegal laws and signs before the new state law takes effect 1 October. Our state has always had the preemption over local laws with regard to firearms and CCW, but there was no provision for PUNISHMENT, so the local bureaucrats and LEOs ignored the law... and when it was pointed out they were enforcing illegal laws, they said "So what? There's no penalty".

CWL holders recently got protection from accidental exposure of their CW so that they wouldn't get arrested because someone complained... "Man With A Gun". This was short of the Open Carry Law the NRA backed, but stops those who like to cause grief to legal concealed weapon carriers by reporting MWAG.

JMHO

Wynn:)

[Agent Smith]

Crack me up. I'm all for carrying in bad places but paranoid much? You realize literally billions of people have gone through their entire lives without needing a gun right? And that 99% who do carry will never need it? That you're vastly more exposed to other everyday risks you can't do anything about? Seems to be a lot of people here who don't understand the laws of probability.

[wyntrout]

YOU crack ME up. I'm not paranoid and I try to AVOID places where I think I might NEED a gun. I don't look for trouble and I don't see bad guys everywhere, but I do try to maintain my situational awareness, and in the unlikely event that I need a gun, I won't have reason to bemoan MY bad decision not to carry one.

You can have your statistics and they will be comforting, I'm sure, if you're unlucky enough to be one of those 1% or less who do encounter a bad situation and might live to regret it... millions do.

You probably think the police prevent crime, too, when most often they are putting up the crime scene tape and trying to see if anybody will tell them something helpful to help solve the crime... long after the deed is done... the proverbial "The cops are only minutes away when seconds count".

I'm all for law enforcement and supporting them, but they have no special powers of omniscience and can't physically be everywhere at once... especially if they are busy elsewhere.

Statistics can be collected and arranged to "prove" anything, but it will be small comfort if you're the "one in a million" or whatever that failed to take adequate measures of self defense when you could have.

I don't speak for "literally billions of people", I speak only for myself.

Wynn :yo: :hippie:

[BuckeyeBlast]

Crack me up. I'm all for carrying in bad places but paranoid much? You realize literally billions of people have gone through their entire lives without needing a gun right? And that 99% who do carry will never need it? That you're vastly more exposed to other everyday risks you can't do anything about? Seems to be a lot of people here who don't understand the laws of probability.


Not paranoid, prepared. You realize literally millions of people have been murdered in their homes, right? And that 1 out of 100 people have used their concealed handgun to defend their life or the lives of their family, and without that they may be dead? Do you realize that more people are murdered in schools than are murdered in gun stores? Seems to me that you don't understand the laws of reality. You crack me up. :)

[ltxi]

Crack me up. I'm all for carrying in bad places but paranoid much? You realize literally billions of people have gone through their entire lives without needing a gun right? And that 99% who do carry will never need it? That you're vastly more exposed to other everyday risks you can't do anything about? Seems to be a lot of people here who don't understand the laws of probability.

What you say is undoubtedly, statistically true. In fact, particularly when it comes to non-professional carry, probably more like 99.99% and greater will never need to use lethal force in defense. But just like all other statistics none of that means much when it's suddenly you. Still alive, I make no apologies for what you dismiss as paranoia.

[Barth]

Not paranoid, prepared. You realize literally millions of people have been murdered in their homes, right? And that 1 out of 100 people have used their concealed handgun to defend their life or the lives of their family, and without that they may be dead? Do you realize that more people are murdered in schools than are murdered in gun stores? Seems to me that you don't understand the laws of reality. You crack me up. :)

For me, it's ironic how some people literally throw their money away on the astronomical odds of a lottery.
But others think a 1 in 100 chance is acceptable risk to take with their own life. Or the lives of their loved ones.

Why take unnecessary risk with something priceless?

[LaP]

For me, it's ironic how some people literally throw their money away on the astronomical odds of a lottery.
But others think a 1 in 100 chance is acceptable risk to take with their own life. Or the lives of their loved ones.



Man, you hit it on the head.
People will take chances on the longest odds but, refuse to take precautions for something that is more likely to happen.
Seat belts anyone???!!!

Why do we do this?:confused:

[jdlott74]

Crack me up. I'm all for carrying in bad places but paranoid much? You realize literally billions of people have gone through their entire lives without needing a gun right? And that 99% who do carry will never need it? That you're vastly more exposed to other everyday risks you can't do anything about? Seems to be a lot of people here who don't understand the laws of probability.

That might be true, but it's better to have one and not need it than to not have one and need it. The cops can't be there at the exact second something happens and it will all come down to you needing to use it and you could be dead by the time the cops get there.

[LaP]

That might be true, but it's better to have one and not need it than to not have one and need it. The cops can't be there at the exact second something happens and it will all come down to you needing to use it and you could be dead by the time the cops get there.

Why do I carry a gun?
Because I can't carry a cop.:cool:

[jdlott74]

Why do I carry a gun?
Because I can't carry a cop.:cool:

LOL, SO very true...Hopefully here soon I'll be carrying both....jlottmc will hopefully soon be getting into the academy...

[wyntrout]

Hey! Now you're talking about one of my "investments". I invest hundreds of dollars a month... sometimes a week. I'm probably getting close to EVEN. I played the lottery here and there... California in '86 while going through re-qualification in the B52, after 3 years out of SAC... in a "sleepy" little Command Post next to France, almost... Zweibrücken Air Base... West Germany, at the time.

I then got stationed at Loring AFB in Northern Maine '86 to '88 when I retired... not my choice but at least I could retire after 20 years. I hit 5 out of 6 on their TRI-STATE LOTTERY(ME, NH, & VT) and won a whopping $500... small population and small pots!

My wife still had another 8 years, at least, until retirement in '96. SHE didn't HAVE to retire, but tired of that posting and the B.S., so she quit at 20 years. That was Brooks AFB in Sn Antonio. I, of course, played the Lottery there. I don't remember any remarkable winnings there... other than a FAX machine from a business store that I sold for $225. I HAVE had my bit of luck... the greatest being my wife. :)

I've always gotten 10 to 20% back... about 80% losses. So I usually can count on 90% losses!

Then there was Florida. I played here... April '97 to December '01 when I hit 5 out of 5 on the Fantasy 5 for half of the nearly $220,000! I was up all night after the drawing 'cause back then, they didn't give results until the office opened the next morning around 10 AM. I was going over all of the data online trying to see how many people usually won and what the usual prizes were. I was excited. I told my wife and we did some hugging and celebrating and then she went to sleep.

We did have savings then... my IRA in stocks, but we owed about $20K each for my 21'+ Walk-around cabin boat and her 6-month 0ld Volvo S40 car, and about that much total on two credit cards... about $60K all together, and after netting about $80K we had money left over which I used pretty wisely for the house and a little help to my ex with my grown daughter's expenses.
Anyhow, within 30 days I hit 5 out of 6 on the state Lottery for a low pot of $3880 plus my "wheeling" winners for a total of $4,299, and thought I had something going with my strategy of play... wheeling numbers with matrices. Almost 10 years later, I haven't done any better than $800 or so and that was a LONG time ago. I still play and I'm hoping, but I know the odds are against me... BUT, I DID have more than my share of luck... one of those miniscule statistics, so I know STUFF HAPPENS... and most of the time it ain't good!

We haven't suffered because of my gambling... no late bills or doing without, too much, but I wouldn't advise anyone to "invest" in lotteries. I'm the exception because I did beat the odds for a brief period.

While active military I went to Sea Survival several times... in Japan in '67 while enlisted and later at Homestead in Florida... just before the movie JAWS came out Summer of '74. Thank God! We had to put black socks over our sneakers for some training in a river so the barracuda wouldn't attack our feet(brackish water connected to the bay), but we para-sailed off a fast boat setup with a platform and a winch with 700+ feet of rope out in Biscayne Bay. The water was clear and the sun made kind of a chicken wire pattern in the water or on the bottom. We could see pretty well and didn't notice any BIG fish... like I said, before JAWS that Summer of '74, and we were busy practicing our water-entry procedures, otherwise, I would have been scared $#!+less!

What I'm getting to... long-winded as usual, is that we live near the beach and I was trying to body-surf and swim in the ocean. Then we noticed all of the SHARK attacks... and more commonly... the shark BITES... where sharks are confused in the swirling sand of the surf and ACCIDENTALLY bite people... mistaking them for their smaller fish... food. Or the people on surfboards or body board/rafts that make them look like the favorite food of sharks... seals! Well, I had never heard of so much shark activity in the States! Several times a week people were getting bitten, though rarely fatally... though THAT DID HAPPEN a time or two since we've been here... April '97.

My wife and I adopted a policy of not going into the water deeper than we could see... usually ankle or calf deep. I know it's a rare thing... but... have you ever seen the aerial shot of the shark migrations... sometimes within yards of people in the water!! Many, many sharks, and this is going on a lot of the time! We don't get too wet at the beach and just watch the others and everything else at the beach. We're content to stay away from being shark... or barracuda, snacks. Yeah, the odds are against that, too, but I think we're plenty happy without the risk of being fish snacks. Oh, I do legally carry my EDC in this State park... Huguenot Beach.

Well, that was where I was going... somehow it seemed appropriate to the discussion. Hell, I don't know. I just get carried away easily... Rambling Wind, er, Wynn.

Anyhow, there are risks and there are RISKS. I try to keep the life and limb ones to a minimum.

Again, JMHO.

Wynn:blah; :typing: :yo:

[LaP]

wyntrout: I'm not scared of the sharks.... it's the jelly fish that always get me and my family. Even at ankle depth, those slimely little suckers can still reach out & put a nasty sting on you. Sometimes, you don't even know they hit you...then you get on shore and your legs/back/stomach are on fire!!!
Did I mention that I hate them SOBs?

[wyntrout]

Yeah, those are seasonal, but I've never seen or stepped on any remnants of the Portuguese Man 'o wars, but I've seen PLENTY of jelly fish... late August or September when they do their reproductive thing... mainly the basketball-looking things. I've seen the dolphins tossing those around like basketballs... neat!

That's another good reason to stay out of the water... when those things are in "season". Back in '84 my kids got into something... possibly part of a Man 'o war. My son had a minor brush, but my daughter... about 9 then, had a tentacle drape across her instep and it was like a fiery brand... immediately! A lifeguard had tenderizer or something to put on the affected area. That helped pretty quickly, but it hurt me to see her in so much pain!:eek:

Wynn:)

[LuckyGunner]

I always have my carry pistol within arms reach. I have a handful of small single and double pistol safes in all the places I spend most of my time.

I rarely leave the house without at least a LCP on me.

[cgo99]

Never fear, where there's an obsession there's always a way......just pulled the trigger on this baby from Davidson's......:)

M-

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ProdImageSm/p-32-t-t.JPG
Well played, good for you. Congrats.

[tv_racin_fan]

Do you buy MOTORCYCLE insurance when going out on a boat? Why carry a gun in a totally known safe area?

Introduce me to this totally safe area, I need to move there...

COMMON SENSE is staying out of known problem areas, COMMON SENSE is steering clear of confrontation and trusting your instincts. COMMON SENSE is walking on other side of street when you see a situation that may not look good.;)
There is a big difference from downtown PHOENIX, HOUSTON, ATLANTA and BLOOMINGTON Minnesota. The first 3 I would want to be armed, the last one you can even walk at night [staying alert helps no matter where you are aka COMMON SENSE].
Another thing that makes me chuckle is posts that say you need to carry multiple spare magazines with like 30 or so extra rounds! Holy cow! After about 3 rounds are fired in MOST areas you will be swarmed by LEO's [not all....MOST]. :59:

I don't need to carry at all I do however choose to. I may or may not be armed while in the house or in my own yard but I pretty dern well am armed if I get into the car even if I am going some place I am not allowed to carry (it can stay in the car for a short time or someone else can carry it while I am not allowed to).

[Barth]

I don't need to carry at all I do however choose to. I may or may not be armed while in the house or in my own yard but I pretty dern well am armed if I get into the car even if I am going some place I am not allowed to carry (it can stay in the car for a short time or someone else can carry it while I am not allowed to).

Many employers used to ban employees having guns in their cars on Company property.
No more. Florida continues to understand and support concealed carry. Say what you want about the Deep South - we love our freedom!
http://images.pictureshunt.com/pics/b/black_and_white_braveheart-10432.jpg

[Rainman48314]

Do you buy MOTORCYCLE insurance when going out on a boat? Why carry a gun in a totally known safe area? COMMON SENSE is staying out of known problem areas, COMMON SENSE is steering clear of confrontation and trusting your instincts. COMMON SENSE is walking on other side of street when you see a situation that may not look good.;)
There is a big difference from downtown PHOENIX, HOUSTON, ATLANTA and BLOOMINGTON Minnesota. The first 3 I would want to be armed, the last one you can even walk at night [staying alert helps no matter where you are aka COMMON SENSE].
Another thing that makes me chuckle is posts that say you need to carry multiple spare magazines with like 30 or so extra rounds! Holy cow! After about 3 rounds are fired in MOST areas you will be swarmed by LEO's [not all....MOST]. :59:
http://gis.logis.org/Bloomington/PIMAWeb/PIMAWeb.aspx

This is the city's web tool for analyzing crime by type. It's a map where push pins pop up. It's only the last 90 days worth of crime. Check it out by selecting categories on the left (check boxes one after another).

[Michael W.]

Do you buy MOTORCYCLE insurance when going out on a boat? Why carry a gun in a totally known safe area? COMMON SENSE is staying out of known problem areas, COMMON SENSE is steering clear of confrontation and trusting your instincts. COMMON SENSE is walking on other side of street when you see a situation that may not look good.;)
There is a big difference from downtown PHOENIX, HOUSTON, ATLANTA and BLOOMINGTON Minnesota. The first 3 I would want to be armed, the last one you can even walk at night [staying alert helps no matter where you are aka COMMON SENSE].
Another thing that makes me chuckle is posts that say you need to carry multiple spare magazines with like 30 or so extra rounds! Holy cow! After about 3 rounds are fired in MOST areas you will be swarmed by LEO's [not all....MOST]. :59:


I really have no dog in this fight. Carry, don't carry, that's up to you.
Thank God we live in a country where we have the right (in most states)
to do that. If you feel safe living in Bloomington then more power to you.
Glad that you can exercise to not carry.

For me, however, carrying is more than simply strapping on a piece of
hardware and feeling bad ass. It's more like a state of mind, or even a
world view if you want to get philosophical. It's about being prepared
and being self reliant. I carry a reload when I carry single stack Kahrs,
I don't when I carry a Glock. That's just me. I think what some folks take
exception to is the ridicule in your tone about what we choose to carry
and the implication that we either lack or are not applying COMMON
SENSE. (emphasis yours). I think that I speak for most of us here that
subscribe to the tenant, "If you're going to carry at all, then carry always"
(paraphrase) and the heart if this thread is discussing this mindset. I
respect your decision to carry selectively although I don't agree with it
If someone were to ask me whether I think it was a good idea to
carry a gun once in a while, I would probably tell them to instead get
a collapsible baton and get some lessons. That way they are less
likely to have an AD during the "once in a while" that they do decide
to carry.

And just a couple of facts......

http://www.fototime.com/CF8C3C2F66BE52E/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/7FAA891BABDC61F/standard.jpg

I bet those citizens of Bloomington, MN represented on these two charts
aren't exactly feeling very "safe" today.

Michael-

[Rainman48314]

I really have no dog in this fight. Carry, don't carry, that's up to you.
Thank God we live in a country where we have the right (in most states)
to do that. If you feel safe living in Bloomington then more power to you.
Glad that you can exercise to not carry.

For me, however, carrying is more than simply strapping on a piece of
hardware and feeling bad ass. It's more like a state of mind, or even a
world view if you want to get philosophical. It's about being prepared
and being self reliant. I carry a reload when I carry single stack Kahrs,
I don't when I carry a Glock. That's just me. I think what some folks take
exception to is the ridicule in your tone about what we choose to carry
and the implication that we either lack or are not applying COMMON
SENSE. (emphasis yours). I think that I speak for most of us here that
subscribe to the tenant, "If you're going to carry at all, then carry always"
(paraphrase) and the heart if this thread is discussing this mindset. I
respect your decision to carry selectively although I don't agree with it
If someone were to ask me whether I think it was a good idea to
carry a gun once in a while, I would probably tell them to instead get
a collapsible baton and get some lessons. That way they are less
likely to have an AD during the "once in a while" that they do decide
to carry.

And just a couple of facts......

http://www.fototime.com/CF8C3C2F66BE52E/orig.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/7FAA891BABDC61F/standard.jpg

I bet those citizens of Bloomington, MN represented on these two charts
aren't exactly feeling very "safe" today.

Michael-

Great response. I agree to disagree as well. These graphics are from the link I posted. Those are crimes in just the last 90 days.

[earle8888]

Good responce

[dademoss]

The last time I felt relieved to have a firearm was in one of the safest places I can imagine, my own back yard.

We were having an AC and furnace installed, so the gate to the backyard was open so the installer could carry stuff to the basement.

He was hooking up the condensor, and I was fishing leaves out of my pond. I had my back to the gate, when I heard "OH #$!@, a pit bull!". When I turned, a rather large brown pit was standing in the gate.

I yelled and tossed the rake, which made the dog leave, but I was glad to know there was a CW9 tucked inside my waistband, in case the dog decided we looked like a snack.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Yesterday, on a street less than a mile from my work, in a quiet neighborhood, low crime rate, suburb neighborhood, a guy went crazy, killed his girlfriends family, then went into the neighbor's home and killed them, as well as chased some people down the street. All-in-all, 8 killed including an 11 yr old shot in the back as he was fleeing, plus one still fighting for her life in the hospital. Want to know why I carry at home? Because I love my family and have an obligation to protect them. My fists can only do so much against an armed attacker. Call me paranoid or call me crazy for taking responsibility to ensure that I do everything I can to ensure the safety of my wife and our sons.

And for the record, in the story I mentioned above, the police are reported to have been on scene in less than 3 minutes. They were on scene when the guy was exiting the neighbors home, still shooting. The shooter had no prior criminal record. Still people died while they were in the 'safety' of their homes, on a Sunday morning, quiet day w/ sunshine and a church nearby. People never expect it to happen to them, only now this fine family is together in the morgue instead of their home.

[wyntrout]

I'll bet the STATISTICS for something like that happening were pretty high... against it happening. It really sucks when someone goes "crazy" like that and kills innocents. They should just take care of themselves instead of inflicting pain and misery on others.

Wynn

[BuckeyeBlast]

I'll bet the STATISTICS for something like that happening were pretty high... against it happening. It really sucks when someone goes "crazy" like that and kills innocents. They should just take care of themselves instead of inflicting pain and misery on others.

Wynn

Yes, the stats are very well against this happening. It's a nice community w/ a low crime rate, and an especially low violent crime rate. But, it sure sucks to be the family and friends of the deceased. At least the cops dropped his ass when they saw him, no trial to worry about, no insanity plea, etc. Gotta hand it to the police for this one.

[wyntrout]

Sometimes the a$$#@#$ do stuff like that because they want the cops to shoot them... "suicide by cop"... bad for all of the victims, including the cops.

Wynn

[mr surveyor]

and there would be a whole lot less death involved in these things if the perp ended his spree in a "death by armed citizen on the spot"!

[QuercusMax]

Nothing to do with guns, but a recent news story concerned a man (strangely enough from Minnesota) who was mauled by a grizzly bear while hiking in Glacier. Although he was "armed" with pepper spray, the incident happened so fast that he did not have time to use his weapon in self-defense.

I'd be willing to bet that the same would be true for almost anyone who might be confronted with a bad guy as well, with the possible exception of LEOs and former LEOs, most of whom have years of training and experience. The vast majority of people would find that "it all happened so fast" - everything was over before they could even deploy the weapon they were carrying.

Of course, most people believe that they are above average, and perhaps truly believe they are Quick Draw McGraw, but in reality the vast majority of us who carry are amateurs, and whose everyday minds are almost always on something other that the piece they are carrying, unless they are truly obsessed with guns.

Regarding Bloomington, MN - you can dredge up all of the crime maps you want, but just go there and see for yourself. It's perhaps not the garden of Minnesota, but I've been there many times myself and never even felt a *hint* of a threat. Then again, I have high situational awareness.

Carrying a gun in public is a right that many of us enjoy the privilege of, but that virtually none of us (hopefully) will ever have the need to use. I think that virtually every US citizen who carries in public does so just for the warm feeling it gives them (which is worth something for sure), but not because they are actually capable of protecting themselves with it in a sudden, unexpected, highly-unlikely situation.

How many people reading this have *ever* had the need to unholster their carry piece in public? Perhaps a good topic for another discussion.

[Bawanna]

Your right and many many LEO's get caught unaware every day too. Defense is reaction. The bad guy has a plan and makes the plays. The rest of us don't get to see the script.

Situational awarness of course helps alot but theres still gonna be alot of it happened so fast stories. We just do the best we can.

[wyntrout]

http://www.outdooroddities.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/grizzly_bear_warning_sign-500x373.jpg (http://www.outdooroddities.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/grizzly_bear_warning_sign.jpg)
Sign text reads:
Due to the frequency of human-bear encounters, the B.C. Fish and Wildlife Branch is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen and any persons that use the out of doors in a recreational or work related function to take extra precautions while in the field.
We advise the outdoorsman to wear little noisy bells on clothing so as to give advanced warning to any bears that might be close by so you don’t take them by surprise.
We also advise anyone using the out-of-doors to carry “Pepper Spray” with him is case of an encounter with a bear.
Outdoorsmen should also be on the watch for fresh bear activity, and be able to tell the difference between black bear feces and grizzly bear feces. Black bear feces is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear $h!t has bells in it and smells like pepper

[Michael W.]

Nothing to do with guns, but a recent news
story concerned a man (strangely enough from Minnesota) who was
mauled by a grizzly bear while hiking in Glacier. Although he was "armed"
with pepper spray, the incident happened so fast that he did not have
time to use his weapon in self-defense.

I'd be willing to bet that the same would be true for almost anyone who
might be confronted with a bad guy as well, with the possible exception of LEOs and former LEOs, most of whom have years of training and
experience. The vast majority of people would find that "it all happened so fast" - everything was over before they could even deploy the weapon
they were carrying.

Of course, most people believe that they are above average, and perhaps truly believe they are Quick Draw McGraw, but in reality the vast majority of us who carry are amateurs, and whose everyday minds are almost always on something other that the piece they are carrying, unless they are truly obsessed with guns.

Regarding Bloomington, MN - you can dredge up all of the crime maps you want, but just go there and see for yourself. It's perhaps not the garden of Minnesota, but I've been there many times myself and never even felt a *hint* of a threat. Then again, I have high situational awareness.

Carrying a gun in public is a right that many of us enjoy the privilege of, but that virtually none of us (hopefully) will ever have the need to use. I think that virtually every US citizen who carries in public does so just for the warm feeling it gives them (which is worth something for sure), but not because they are actually capable of protecting themselves with it in a sudden, unexpected, highly-unlikely situation.

How many people reading this have *ever* had the need to unholster their carry piece in public? Perhaps a good topic for another discussion.

You bring up many good points. But first, the purpose of "dredging up"
crime stats was not to put down Bloomington. Frankly, it sounds idyllic
and sounds like a place I wouldn't mind living. There are quite a few
places like that I know of. But the point was that crime does exist, and
your subjective "not feeling any hint of threat" probably doesn't do much
to assuage the anguish of the 24 women forcibly raped in the last 90
days.

If you live there, good for you. If you feel safe, then double-good.
But why deride the choices of others who don't live in Mayberry as was
the tone to Jeepster's post which I was replying to?

I'm not sure I quite get what the problem is here. Some of us choose to
carry as a way of life. There are valid statistically demonstrable reasons
why we do. I live in Orlando, that in and of itself should be 'nuff said.

If you are implying that because I carry that I have a false sense of
security, perhaps you are right. Or....perhaps I have the same sense of
security that I have by choosing GEICO instead of Allstate, or choosing
Cigna instead of Providian, or choosing Dr. Smith to do my colonoscopy
and instead of Dr. Brown.

When it comes to being armed, no I am not a Gunsite Graduate
nor have I taken self defense training from Clint or Mas or any other guru.
I like to think I'm constantly living in condition yellow but to be honest
someday's I'm just gathering wool at a red light just like everyone else,
or maybe I'm jamming out to some Kansas on the iPhone instead of
practicing my situational awareness. So maybe you're right that if
I got blindsided I'd lose before the fight even began. Perhaps.....

But let me lay some other stats on the table. At least here in Florida,
there is a direct correlation to the decrease in violent crime and the
increase CCW issue. I'm not a statistician.....not smart enough for that,
but 2 and 2 still sounds like 4 to me. I carry because with the amount
of skill and training that I can bring to bear in the highly unlikely situation
that I'll need to defend myself, my family, or my neighbor with a weapon,
feeble as it may be compared to a real warrior, at least I'm there
with more than a shoe to throw. False sense of security? Or simply
having the COMMON SENSE to be prepared?

Michael-

[Rainman48314]

Nothing to do with guns, but a recent news story concerned a man (strangely enough from Minnesota) who was mauled by a grizzly bear while hiking in Glacier. Although he was "armed" with pepper spray, the incident happened so fast that he did not have time to use his weapon in self-defense.

I'd be willing to bet that the same would be true for almost anyone who might be confronted with a bad guy as well, with the possible exception of LEOs and former LEOs, most of whom have years of training and experience. The vast majority of people would find that "it all happened so fast" - everything was over before they could even deploy the weapon they were carrying.

Of course, most people believe that they are above average, and perhaps truly believe they are Quick Draw McGraw, but in reality the vast majority of us who carry are amateurs, and whose everyday minds are almost always on something other that the piece they are carrying, unless they are truly obsessed with guns.

Regarding Bloomington, MN - you can dredge up all of the crime maps you want, but just go there and see for yourself. It's perhaps not the garden of Minnesota, but I've been there many times myself and never even felt a *hint* of a threat. Then again, I have high situational awareness.

Carrying a gun in public is a right that many of us enjoy the privilege of, but that virtually none of us (hopefully) will ever have the need to use. I think that virtually every US citizen who carries in public does so just for the warm feeling it gives them (which is worth something for sure), but not because they are actually capable of protecting themselves with it in a sudden, unexpected, highly-unlikely situation.

How many people reading this have *ever* had the need to unholster their carry piece in public? Perhaps a good topic for another discussion.
I don't get any 'warm feeling' when I carry. I do get a heightened situational awareness. I think that's a good thing. I also feel I have an option (of last resort) when carrying. Maybe its because I haven't carried for very long.

I shoot a few hundred rounds per month, most weeks I hit the range twice. I am planning more training. I guess this sums up my idea of COMMON SENSE. Oh, and I live near Detroit.

[Eagleks]

belly band / or nylon gun belt underneath the shorts, works just fine.

[Jeremiah/Az]

I live alone on a very rural acreage where a dry tree lined river bed is my eastern property line. I find old fires & empty cans that probably illegal immigrants from south of the border have left. It is a safe "highway" for them to travel. I have had a few things stolen, but no confrontations with them. I have seen them tho.

I once called the sheriff about an abandoned car on my property, stolen, & it took them 2 days to come. If I can't take care of myself, no one else will. You bet, I always carry.

[Brittanyman]

I always have a handgun in my vehicle, Kel-Tec P-11 with and extended mag. I also carry on me one of three weapons depending on the weather, clothing I'm wearing, or where I am going. Those weapons are the Glock 27 with a Glock 357 Sig barrel, a Kahr CM9, or a Kel Tec P-AT.

At home I have a laser equipped Glock always by my bed with a super bright flashlight and spare mags. We have a Brittany that is gentle, but he has a loud bark and barks when people come to the house.

My wife wanted an alarm system, so last summer I had one installed. The salesman was explaining the system to me, and mentioned that they installed a microphone that when the alarm was tripped would pick up any noises in the house. I asked him if it would pick up gun shots. He gave me a puzzled look.

In my safe, I keep a least one box of ammo for every handgun and rifle that occupies it. When you open my safe the 2 guns that are the easiest to get to are my short barreled, extended mag, Remington 870, and my shorty AR15 with a laser and flashlight attached to it.

When I was a public school teacher, I baby-sat inner-city wannabe gangbangers. One day I had one of these miscreants pipe off in class that he was going to find out where I live and bring some of his boys out to visit me.
I walked back to his desk and told him that I would draw him a map of exactly where I lived. I told him that I live on a one way street and that he and his boys would go up that street, but would never come back. I also mentioned where I live all the neighbors are armed, and we watch each others backs. I also mentioned we have a deep lake near by.

That shut him up quick and he never piped off to me again. If I was teaching today and said that to a student, I would loose my job.

[jocko]

QUOTE; That shut him up quick and he never piped off to me again. If I was teaching today and said that to a student, I would loose my job



only if someone else overheard u. one on one, I think he got the point!!

[jmk1138]

Always carry something.
At a minimum, I have alway had a nice, steel, cross pen in my shirt pocket. Tactical pens are good, too, if it wasn't for that damned "S&W" on them (not so "tactical" anymore). I don't even know if there is still ink in the pen. You can't take a kubotan on a plane, but a steel shiv appears to be okay.

[jeepster09]

Its too easy to blame attorneys. Let's start with the guy who hired them for a questionable lawsuit. Blaming the attorney is no different than blaming the gun or the fork (in Rosie O'Donnel's case). He's just a tool (no pun intended).


No, it's easy to blame the attorney, they prey on "victims" so that they can make a living milking everyone for everything they can. Gun's don't think or talk, they do as they are told.....Rosie is not human.:D

There is a place for lawyers, yet we have to many of them and they get hungry and lose any sense of ethical logic in order to eat.:75:
It's kinda funny, the area's with the strictist gun laws are the most unsafe and our elected officials can't figure it out. :yo:

Minnesota is by no means "utopia" but it is one of the safest places to live.
If you want bad in Minnesota, an area to "carry", go to Minneapolis at night. It is an area where we have imported others from other states, to bring us their steller "gang bangin" ways and collect MINNESOTA welfare checks. Hey but our politicians need to bring in votes somehow.

[jmk1138]

[QUOTE=jeepster09;91692]
There is a place for lawyers, yet we have to many of them QUOTE]

Actually, given the current wealth and population of our country, we are at an all-time low for lawyers when compared to previous decades.

There's not too many lawyers -- there aren't enough good ones.

[Brittanyman]

Jocko, I said this to that miscreant with a class full of students. Also I taught in schools where the administration took the side of the students before the teachers.

I had one student threatened physical harm to me. I reported him to a Dean (vice-principal) who just laughed it off. He told me he was a teddy bear. We'll that teddy bear a year later was arrested for rape.

I went over the Dean's head and went to the Principal, who was a straight shooter. He was upset at the Dean's comment and reprimanded the Dean for it. The Dean was a friend of mine up to that point. I wanted what I reported on record so if one day this kid attacked me, and I defended myself and the kid was injured, I would have some legal ground for what I did.

I've worked with some lousy, cowardly administrators, who I had not trust or faith in.

[jeepster09]

[QUOTE=jeepster09;91692]
There is a place for lawyers, yet we have to many of them QUOTE]

Actually, given the current wealth and population of our country, we are at an all-time low for lawyers when compared to previous decades.

There's not too many lawyers -- there aren't enough good ones.

You must be a lawyer or be related to someone that is. Everyone wants to sue everyone for everything now a days......no one is responsible for their own actions anymore, it's everyone elses fault!

[jmk1138]

"Everyone wants to sue everyone for everything now a days"

Or, we can all take it out in the streets to decide.

Either way, I'm ready for either battlefield. Let me know.

[jeepster09]

"Everyone wants to sue everyone for everything now a days"

Or, we can all take it out in the streets to decide.

Either way, I'm ready for either battlefield. Let me know.


Instead of "taking it out in the streets" just take responsibility for our own actions and quit blaming others for our screw ups. :yo:

[jmk1138]

Do you honestly think that every single lawsuit is about people blaming others for their screw-ups?

What if you buy a house and the other guy refuses to move out?
What if a pilot puts the flaps up instead of down and crashes into a river?
What if a guy takes your TV?
What if your employer stops paying you even though you've already done the work?

How are you going to redress your grievance?
You can seek judicial assistance or you can:
(1) attempt to physically remove the person,
(2) pay your own bills caused by someone else,
(3) attempt to physically take your TV back and then incarcerate him in your basement for 3-8 years or
(4) break open the cash register and take your wages.

It's a cop-out of the highest order and intellectually dishonest to remain on the fence and fail to act (in a self-defense scenario or otherwise), and then lay the blame on the fact that one day someone might sue you.

[jocko]

i LIKE YOUR LAST 4 SUGGESTIONS

[jeepster09]

You must be an attorney.:cheer2::popcorn::popcorn::001_tt2:

[jeepster09]

Why do pharmaceutical company laboratories now use lawyers rather than lab rats for testing?
. . . Lawyers breed faster, so there are more of them.
. . . Lab personnel don't get as emotionally attached to them.
. . . Lawyers do things rats won't.
. . . Animal protection groups don't get nearly as excited.
. . . Some people actually LIKE rats.

[jmk1138]

i LIKE YOUR LAST 4 SUGGESTIONS

Some people do.
What does your dungeon look like? And is there lotion, Bill?

[jeepster09]

Q: What's wrong with lawyer jokes?
A: Lawyers don't think they're funny and other people don't think they're jokes.

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Murderer.gif
Q: What do you call 25 skydiving lawyers?
A: Skeet.

[Brittanyman]

Over the last year, I've seen two ads in National Geographic that were about class action law suits. One was going after a company that sold small head phones for mpg / ipod players. They had nothing in their instructions concerning audio level and loss of hearing. The law suit was settled out of court. The end result was people who bought these headphones received zero compensation. The company agreed to donate 2 or 3 hundred dollars to groups for deaf people. The lawyers were asking for millions to cover their costs.

Another one was against Honda. The claim was Honda mis-labled the horse power ratings of their lawn mower. Again it was settled out of court and the consumers received a $5.00 check and millions went to the lawyers.

Lawyers are always looking for clients so they can sue a company or corporation. Look at the TV ads. One group of lawyers were exposed concerning a class action suit for people who were exposed to asbestos. The lawyers were getting people to claim they were exposed to asbestos, when in reality they never where. The lawyers new this. They even coached them on what to say.

How about the woman who claimed she found a finger in chilli she bought at Wendy's. She was eventually exposed because of previous law suits this lady had filed against other companies. The finger actually came from a relative that she put in the chilli.

I can't believe her lawyer had no knowledge of her past history of law suits. He saw dollar signs dancing in his head.

When I worked for a sporting goods store, we had a law suit filed against us. There young teenagers were building pipe bombs and using them to blow up mail boxes. One day when they were making them in one of the criminal's home, one blew up and took of part on one kids hand.

These criminals faced no jail time. The authorities felt sorry for them. The boy who lost part of his hand sued our store, because he claimed he got the gun powder from our store. The only evidence he had was a can of empty gun powder. He had no receipt, no price tag on the can, and his description of the person who sold him the gun powder fit no one who worked in the store.

The store's lawyer said we should settle out of court for a million, because our insurance would cover it.

The owner of the store felt sorry for the kid and settled out of court for $250,000. The kid took the money, bought a flashy car and one night wrecked it while in a drunken stuper. Too bad the slug didn't die in an accident. We finally found out that the gun powder came from a friend of these criminals. The friend stole it from his father's reloading supplies.

Watch John Stossel or read some of his books. He has a lot of stories about lawyers and the courts that allow some of these law suits to go forward.

[jmk1138]

Brittanyman,

I could tell you worse stories about lawyers and the judicial system. "Investigative" journalists are just scratching the surface.

So, kind of proves my point, right? We need more good lawyers.

And, it is still better than a might-is-right "legal" system. At least the parents just sued instead of coming down to your store demanding your manager's hand in some sort of Shariah law fashion.

My original point is the same, and I don't think it is very arguable -- Don't blame your own lack of preparedness on the off-chance that some idiot may sue you someday. Tried by 12 or carried by 6, right?

[Bawanna]

I'm picking up bad ju ju. Anyone want to hear me sing my version of Moon River?

Happy thoughts, stay constructive, don't do me ugly.

[pappy42]

I'm picking up bad ju ju. Anyone want to hear me sing my version of Moon River?

Happy thoughts, stay constructive, don't do me ugly.

Dang boss, you shut things down before I got to say something ugly about lawyers.

[Sparks1957]

Ban him! Ban him! Ban him! hehehe

[Bawanna]

Nothings shut down. I was just getting bad ju ju. Finger hoovering over the button but fire away.

[MW surveyor]

Look shiny.......Wish I could remember where I put my 8 round magazine. Been missing now for nearly 3 months.

Don't carry all the time but have enough scattered around the house and at my desk where I am 80% of the time I'm home.

[Rainman48314]

One of my best friends is an attorney. Spent most of his career at Blue Cross. My sister is also an attorney. When I was planning my divorce, she advised my soon to be ex-wife that she should get more alimony and for a longer time! Despite her being a Liberal Loon, this was unexpected. My Ex, being a class act, informed her we already had a verbal agreement. She retained an attorney, I representred myself (I'm not an atty). What is it about law school that makes SOME people idiots?

[MikeyKahr]

That was sure nice of your sister! ;-)

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[Bawanna]

Yeah, with sisters like that who needs relatives........

Oh sorry Mikey, nothing personal.

[yqtszhj]

My sister is also an attorney. When I was planning my divorce, she advised my soon to be ex-wife that she should get more alimony and for a longer time! Despite her being a Liberal Loon, this was unexpected.

I hope you gave something nice to her the next Christmas. If you were not sure what to send I'm sure Jocko could give you an idea... of course you would have to be italian.

[TucsonMTB]

What is it about law school that makes SOME people idiots?
You may not remember all those times you pulled her braids as a child, but she does. :rolleyes: