Decent .22

[Tinman507]

I'm the proud daddy of a CM9, that I have religiously cleaned, lubed, tweaked (a la jocko, bawanna et al) and absolutely fallen in love with. This is my first foray into a semi automatic sidearm. I did my research here before purchase and continue to learn daily from the excellent advise posted here. I have no prior experience to draw on for my current question:

My bride and my 20 y.o. daughter both have watched my journey into CCW with some amusement but now their curiosity appears to have gotten the better of them. They want to learn how to shoot. My mission dujour is to locate a .22 semi that both can learn on and for me to hone my skills on.

What do you ladies and gentlemen suggest as an inexpensive reliable .22 semi to use as a training weapon? Ideally my perfect training weapon would be a CM22 but I don't see that happening. Any ideas?

[Barth]

What do you ladies and gentlemen suggest as an inexpensive reliable .22 semi to use as a training weapon?

Ruger 22/45
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html
Should be able to pick one up for about $250.
Super accurate, easy to shoot, an excellent starter pistol IMHO.

[tv_racin_fan]

As it happens I just picked up a Ruger MKII.

[Bawanna]

The Ruger would be good, the Browning Buckmark would work too. I have a Mark II Ruger that is fun to shoot.
My favorite of course is my S&W 41 buts its sadly far out of the inexpensive category but it's an incredible tack driver.
Can't go wrong with the Ruger or Browning. The Beretta Neo's are suppose to be good although I have no experience with them. Kind of space age looking for my taste.

[TheTman]

I'd go with the either the Ruger MK whatever, or a Browning Buckmark. Both are good dependable accurate pistols.

[BuckeyeBlast]

As others have said, the Buckmark and Ruger Mk series are all awesome.

The Ruger MKIII 22/45 will point more like a Kahr than the (non 22/45) MKIII.

The options are limitless, but I recommend a shorter barreled MKIII 22/45. I LOVE my Ruger MKIII 22/45 Talo. I find it to be the best cheap shooting alternative to a 1911, but keep in mind that ALL of these are going to have WAY different triggers than the Kahr. S&W also makes a nice .22, but I forget the model # of the top of my head. The S&W also has a good reputation, but the Ruger seems to dominate the marketplace.

Here's some pics to help your decision making.

MkIII 22/45 Talo, next to a longer barreled (non Talo) 22/45. Again, I recommend the shorter barrel.
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a453/RightClickError/Gun%20Stuff/PICT0124-2.jpg

MKIII Hunter and Buckmark
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a453/RightClickError/Gun%20Stuff/PICT0208.jpg

Last pic I'll show, because this kind of shows the differences in the grip angles between the MkIII 22/45 and the standard MkIII and MkII (stainless)
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a453/RightClickError/Gun%20Stuff/PICT0130.jpg

[DLButler]

I have a Phoenix Arms HP22A. My wife really likes it. It is inexpensive and has a lifetime warranty. Mine came with a 3" barrel but you can also get a 5" barrel. Haven't had any problems and have about 1500 rounds thru it.

[mr surveyor]

another strong vote for the Ruger 22/45. The grip angle was originally designed to emulate the standard 1911 grip (approx. 11° angle), which is the standard that many other manufacturers chose as the most ergonomic. All of the Ruger MKx pistols are excellent in construction and performance, but the 22/45 is the only one with the "natural" grip angle.

Another "sleeper" is the Sig Mosquito. Although SIg had some "issues" with the early releases, they were mostly due to poor QC on the magazines, but word is they have fixed those problems. I have a friend that bought one of the early ones and it is a great handgun.

[Ubaldo99]

My brother has a Beretta Neos 22 and even tho it looks somewhat like a space gun, it is a lot of fun to shoot and super accurate.

[Bawanna]

I think theres alot of interchangeability with the Neo's too. You can swap barrels for different lengths, different sight setups, etc. Relatively inexpensive last I checked too.

They do have a ton of off the wall different colors too which might appeal to the younger set. Truth be told they appealed to me. Its the green and olive drab and digital camo paint jobs on guns I don't care much for.

[BuckeyeBlast]

I'll also say that while the Walther P22 looked like a cool gun, I bought it and thought it was a piece of crap. Cool features, but felt cheap, felt like a toy, inaccurate, and unreliable. Not something to bring a new shooter into the sport with, IMO.

[ripley16]

The Beretta NEOS is a very reasonably priced yet reliable and accurate .22lr, IMHO as good choice to use when teaching young people to shoot.

My persoanal favorite for accurate, target match quality shooting is the Browning Buckmark. It comes in many iterations and prices, from quite reasonable to a bit pricy.

Beretta's exquisite model 86 is a good choice but a little pricy.

Bersa and Firestorm make a .22lr. Though not a favorite of mine, it is a fun, compact, PPK size, suitable for plinking.

My personal favorite for sheer fun is a hard to find Daewoo DP22, a fine clone of the Walther PP. If you ever find one... buy it.

The Walther PPK, PPK/S is also a great .22lr for practice and loads of fun.

Edit; Had to add the wonderful older Berettas into the mix, the 948 or 70 series... great guns!

[ltxi]

another strong vote for the Ruger 22/45. The grip angle was originally designed to emulate the standard 1911 grip.......

And another strong vote for the 22/45 as a trainer for the same reason....from a 1911 aficionado. After that, any other Ruger .22, MKII or otherwise, or a Buckmark.

I agree the Phoenix is a really great, inexpensive plinker. I've had one since the late 70's. My personal and forever favorite in that class however is the Beretta Minx.

[Rainman48314]

The Ruger would be good, the Browning Buckmark would work too. I have a Mark II Ruger that is fun to shoot.
My favorite of course is my S&W 41 buts its sadly far out of the inexpensive category but it's an incredible tack driver.
Can't go wrong with the Ruger or Browning. The Beretta Neo's are suppose to be good although I have no experience with them. Kind of space age looking for my taste.
My Beretta Neos w 6 inch barrel is very reliable. I shot 1100 rounds through it without any failures. I replaced it with a GSG 1911-22 so I coiuld train and reinforce working a safety that went down to fire (the Neos goes up). The Neos is for sale if anyone in SE Michigan has an interest.

I also bought a used but never fired Kimber which shoots 17 Mach2. This Rimfire Target pistol is a great trainer too.

[MikeyKahr]

The options are limitless, but I recommend a shorter barreled MKIII 22/45...Again, I recommend the shorter barrel.

Hey neighbor BB, mind my asking why you recommend the shorter barrel on the 22/45?

[rholmes69]

I'll also say that while the Walther P22 looked like a cool gun, I bought it and thought it was a piece of crap. Cool features, but felt cheap, felt like a toy, inaccurate, and unreliable. Not something to bring a new shooter into the sport with, IMO.


My P22 has been awesome and my wife really likes it. It seems like these were hit or miss, and I don't know if there was a serial number range or import date, etc. AMaybe some internet research could help... A lot of people say their's only likes one type of ammo, I ca mix and match an entire magazine with every round from a different maker and it will go bang every time. Dunno...

[JimBianchi]

My Buckmark is amazing.

One of the best trigger I have ever seen on a standard pistol.

Very accurate and 100% reliable.

[paul34]

Ruger MK III.

A real bear to take down and put back together, but good news is, you rarely (if ever) have to do that. Women also love it, and makes a great beginner's pistol (whether for men or women).

[Tinman507]

Wow! Thank you all for the really thoughtful suggestions. Gonna go do some shopping today and checking out a few of the suggested weapons.

I know it's been said a lot on here, but this forum is really unique. Many times newbies and our "dumb" questions are treated with disdain on other forums. Here I really feel like the general feeling is one of helpfulness and education. It's very appreciated. It has the true feeling of fraternity. That welcomes new folks to explore your world. This is most important when our 2nd Amendment rights are under so much assault. A fence-sitter might be turned off and believe the press about gun owners being wing-nuts if he's blown off or insulted. This forum is a pleasant surprise. For that I truly thank each of you.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Hey neighbor BB, mind my asking why you recommend the shorter barrel on the 22/45?

Balance. The poly frame w/ the long barrel of the front just doesn't point as naturally, at least not for me. The shorter barrel just feels like I could remove the sights and still be on target, the longer barrel requires more deliberate aiming... at least for me. I do most of my pistol shooting within 50'

[JFootin]

Yes. Balance. The P-38 always had that. It is genius, actually. It has a longer barrel, but it is a light weight barrel, making it a very pointable weapon.

[Thunder71]

I'll second, or third the Beretta Neos - it's the most underrated gun in my opinion. Mine fires whatever I feed it and is very, very accurate.

Much easier to field strip too!

[TominCA]

Although not a target pistol the Walther p22 has really been liked by women I have taught to shoot. It is small, light and fires both single and double action. It comes with two backstraps to change grip size and the small one is very good for small hands. It is a LOT of fun to shoot and has a blazing fast trigger reset so you can make the thing shoot like a little machinegun. Now that's Fun!

Women seem to like small and light guns when learning (don't we all) in my experience.

[CJB]

Rugers can be found all over the place used. The 22/45 is a favorite.
Dont rule out the older Beretta 76 or the new Beretta if you come across one.
Stay away from Sig Mosquito, other zinc alloy (ZAMAC) frame and/or slide guns, like all the .22 versions of the 1911 that are floating about out there lately.
The old (weird) S&W 22 auto was an interesting and fun gun too.

[rwblue01]

I like 22LR rifles and pistols. I think it all depends on what you want.

S&W makes a great target 22LR revolver. It is good for single action and double action.

Ruger makes a great semi-auto. I have a MKII slabside with scope. When I do my part it is a tack drivers. I am actually looking for a second MII heavy barrel. I don't care for 45/22.

I also like conversion units. I have them for the Glock, 92, AR-15, 45LC.

[LuckyGunner]

Depending on your budget.

Small budget - S&W 22A - I have around 14k rounds through mine and it's only getting better with time. Tear down and cleaning is pretty easy.

If you have a bit more money I would look at a used MKII or MKIII. Browning Buckmarks work also if you prefer them.

__________________
rimfire ammo (http://www.luckygunner.com/rimfire)

[jeepster09]

If you can afford it, get a Smith & Wesson Model 41, you will not regret it. It is a quality LIFETIME purchase. Just remember as the saying goes: "you get what you pay for".



http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/usa/all?search=model+41

[Barth]

If you buy new you may want to concider the threaded barrel version of the Ruger 22/45.
Never know when you might want to run silent run deep.
http://www.innovativetactical.com/catalog/images/gemtech/oasis.jpg

[rwblue01]

If you can afford it, get a Smith & Wesson Model 41, you will not regret it. It is a quality LIFETIME purchase. Just remember as the saying goes: "you get what you pay for".



http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/usa/all?search=model+41


What do you get with your S&W 41 that I don't get with my MKII slabside?

[JFootin]

What do you get with your S&W 41 that I don't get with my MKII slabside?

Besides a much lighter wallet? :D

[QuercusMax]

Of all the handguns I own in various makes and calibers, I have to say that my Browning Buckmark is the piece I like to shoot the best.

As someone else mentioned, the trigger is absolutely wonderful. I can shoot more accurately, more easily, and more inexpensively with this gun than anything else in my collection. Reloading is extremely easy too, due to the magazine design which allows you compress the spring by pushing down on a protruding pin on the side. Cleaning is very simple due to the fixed bull barrel.

My Buckmark is the Camper model in stainless steel, URX grips, fiber optic front sight. I had my doubts about the fiber optic sight, but I liked it immediately.

At the gun club where I am a member, they offered an introductory handgun class a couple years ago in which each participant was given a Ruger 22/45 as part of the course. I did not take this class, but I know the instructor. He said that they will never offer the Ruger again, because that particular model of Ruger was extremely difficult to field strip and reassemble. Maybe that was only true for novice gun owners, but the instructor had problems too. This is just hearsay for which I have no personal experience, but the source is reputable, so I pass it on for consideration or further comment.

Maybe I'll go out and play with my Buckmark now.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Of all the handguns I own in various makes and calibers, I have to say that my Browning Buckmark is the piece I like to shoot the best.

As someone else mentioned, the trigger is absolutely wonderful. I can shoot more accurately, more easily, and more inexpensively with this gun than anything else in my collection. Reloading is extremely easy too, due to the magazine design which allows you compress the spring by pushing down on a protruding pin on the side. Cleaning is very simple due to the fixed bull barrel.

My Buckmark is the Camper model in stainless steel, URX grips, fiber optic front sight. I had my doubts about the fiber optic sight, but I liked it immediately.

At the gun club where I am a member, they offered an introductory handgun class a couple years ago in which each participant was given a Ruger 22/45 as part of the course. I did not take this class, but I know the instructor. He said that they will never offer the Ruger again, because that particular model of Ruger was extremely difficult to field strip and reassemble. Maybe that was only true for novice gun owners, but the instructor had problems too. This is just hearsay for which I have no personal experience, but the source is reputable, so I pass it on for consideration or further comment.

Maybe I'll go out and play with my Buckmark now.

The Ruger IS very hard for the first time. It's built pretty tight, and the first few times disassembling and reassembling can be quite a bear. Once you've done it a few times, the gun loosens up and the procedure becomes second nature. But yes, it is notoriously difficult for new owners, especially on new guns. However, I'm sure Ruger keeps using this design (for decades now) for a reason.

[ripley16]

I have to say that my Browning Buckmark is the piece I like to shoot the best.

As someone else mentioned, the trigger is absolutely wonderful.

I have to agree. My Buckmark Field 5.5 is almost the equal to my Colt Woodsman Match Target in accuracy and trigger quality. That is high praise

[jeepster09]

What do you get with your S&W 41 that I don't get with my MKII slabside?


I guess I have owned most models of 22's and found the Smith to be the best made. I recently had one of the new Ruger 22/45's and was not impressed with it's PLASTIC receiver....I had issues with mag sticking and not wanting to drop out. I even tried a second one with threaded barrel hoping it would be better and it wasn't.....SOOOOO for me, live and learn. I ponied up and spent the money to get another MODEL 41 like I had some 30 years ago. Now I am happy and will never sell this one like in the past. Great shooter, well balanced and well made right out of the box. :yo:

[Bawanna]

I guess I have owned most models of 22's and found the Smith to be the best made. I recently had one of the new Ruger 22/45's and was not impressed with it's PLASTIC receiver....I had issues with mag sticking and not wanting to drop out. I even tried a second one with threaded barrel hoping it would be better and it wasn't.....SOOOOO for me, live and learn. I ponied up and spent the money to get another MODEL 41 like I had some 30 years ago. Now I am happy and will never sell this one like in the past. Great shooter, well balanced and well made right out of the box. :yo:

The Model 41 breaks down in seconds blindfolded to, very sweet to clean and maintain but far from belong in the inexpensive category. Not on the same planet with a MKII or Buckmark or Neo.
I have a 1973 vintage that is just the sweetest thing, a trigger that is beyond description but I paid the price for it too. Worth every penny.
I still love my Ruger MKII though. It is a bear to dissasemble and I don't very often.

[Too Tall Todd]

I had my daughters tryout several .22 for the same reason. The ruger, browning sig and a Walther, they both liked the Walther so that's how I went. It is a good little pistol, accurate and reliable but that whole zinc slide thing still worries me (I still see my dads old zinc toy soliders break at the slightest rough handling). Again there is nothing wrong with the Walther but if I could do it again I would probably opt for a ruger or browning. Well that's my .02 ot .22's

[SmokingGun]

I've had great luck with my Walther P22 - not one hiccup.

[bigmacque]

I went through a couple of .22's before I finally bought a Ruger MKIII 22/45. I bought the lowest cost version available. With the trade of another brand that I had grown to dislike (the second brand that I now would not buy again), I only paid $185.00 plus the trade for it. I've been very happy with this gun, outside of pulling it apart and putting it back together to clean it, which really takes some getting used to.

[bigmacque]

I actually made some handmade tools, a small piece of fitted hardwood and a very specific dowel, that I use to break down and reassemble the 22/45. I'll post some pics later.

It was a bear to disassemble and reassemble, especially at first, but once I got the hang of getting the trigger block in the right place at the right time, it comes apart and goes back together very easily. Not as easily as a PM9, but very easily.

It just takes some getting used to. The tradeoff is it's a sweet little shooter that never hiccups .... so it seemed worth the time to learn how to clean it well, at least to me.

[rwblue01]

I guess I have owned most models of 22's and found the Smith to be the best made. I recently had one of the new Ruger 22/45's and was not impressed with it's PLASTIC receiver....I had issues with mag sticking and not wanting to drop out. I even tried a second one with threaded barrel hoping it would be better and it wasn't.....SOOOOO for me, live and learn. I ponied up and spent the money to get another MODEL 41 like I had some 30 years ago. Now I am happy and will never sell this one like in the past. Great shooter, well balanced and well made right out of the box. :yo:

I always thought the 22/45 Ruger was the bastard step child of the MKII. It just lacked .... Especially when comparing the high end slabside MKII vs. a standard 22/45.

I will also give you the take down on the Rugers is less than easy, but once you get use to it, it isn't bad. (This isn't to say I would like to do it while being timed, but comparing time to clean the gun vs. put it back together.....)

My question on the S&W 41. I was once told that it was a true target 22LR. If I ran hot ammo I would mess it up fairly quickly. Is this true? Can you/Should you run Stingers and Aguilla MAX ammo without screwing up the pistol?

[mr surveyor]

bastard step child or not, the 22/45 was designed for one single utilitarian purpose... to emulate the grip feel of a 1911...and it does that very well.

[rwblue01]

bastard step child or not, the 22/45 was designed for one single utilitarian purpose... to emulate the grip feel of a 1911...and it does that very well.


Maybe that is why I dislike it as I never liked the feel of the 1911 grip.

[Bawanna]

Maybe that is why I dislike it as I never liked the feel of the 1911 grip.

:eek::eek: Dislike a 1911 grip? I've always prided myself on being a little different. I think your different too. Good for you.

Just out of curiosity what kind of grip do you like? Since you came thru and spoke your truth I'll boldly state that I never got along with a Sig grip, I've tried several and we just don't mesh. But I still want a 220SAS with a DAK trigger even though I doubt we'd get along.

[jlottmc]

Maybe that is why I dislike it as I never liked the feel of the 1911 grip.

Sacrilege, and hearesy!!!! If it doesn't work for you then, then it doesn't work, and that happens some time. Find the stuff that does work for you and go there.

[rwblue01]

:eek::eek: Dislike a 1911 grip? I've always prided myself on being a little different. I think your different too. Good for you.

Just out of curiosity what kind of grip do you like? Since you came thru and spoke your truth I'll boldly state that I never got along with a Sig grip, I've tried several and we just don't mesh. But I still want a 220SAS with a DAK trigger even though I doubt we'd get along.

The 92FS is ok, but the DA/SA trigger was an issue in DA.
The Sig 226 and 228 were OK. (I think it is a mistake, but I never ended up purchasing these. )
The Luger08 points well for me, but the action is not something I would trust my life to.
Then I found the Glocks. The trigger isn't target grade, but the grip on the small are large frames works for me. IMHO, it is the best combat gun going.

I am still working hard to like my little Kahr PM9, but grip is sooooooo small, and the trigger.

[bigmacque]

Truthfully, the venerable 1911 grip was designed and developed a very long time ago -- since then, materials, studies of ergonomics, vector physics, and recoil suppression technology have come a long way.

That's why I just really don't understand how anyone can not like or live with the 1911 grip.

[Bawanna]

Truthfully, the venerable 1911 grip was designed and developed a very long time ago -- since then, materials, studies of ergonomics, vector physics, and recoil suppression technology have come a long way.

That's why I just really don't understand how anyone can not like or live with the 1911 grip.

The 1911 can really please alot of people just with thicker or thinner grips depending on hand size.
I like my double stack Para nearly as much as my standard 1911's. It's hand filling but it still feels good to me.
I'm kind of easy to please when it comes to guns anyhow, guess I'm just easy in general.

[Barth]

Years ago I rented a variety of quality handguns and found that some brands I shot extremely well with and others horrific.
Ergonomics is that intangible that must be personally experienced.

[QuercusMax]

Totally agree - what works well for one person might be terrible for another.

It's always interesting to hear other peoples' opinions and choices, even if they are wrong :) , but in the end so many things just come down to personal preference, and because there are so many different people in the world, there is a wide variety of stuff from which we can all choose.

Because quality firearms are so expensive, I think renting a variety like Barth did is a great idea. In the past I lived near a couple of ranges/gun shops that had a wide variety of rental items available - including a lot of fully automatic weapons :D - but now I don't have anything like that nearby. One should always take advantage of opportunities like that.

I bought my only Kahr (so far) - a MK9 Elite - without trying out a similar item first, and I'm still trying hard to love it as I have reported elsewhere on this board. If I had rented this MK9 first, I probably would not have purchased a similar gun based on my initial experience, but then again sometimes good relationships start out a bit rocky. We'll see.

[gb6491]

Sacrilege, and hearesy!!!! ...
Amen brother.
http://www.marinecorpsactivewear.com/mcaw/productpics/totp-1_large.jpg
Semper Fi,
Greg

BTW, let me join the folks recommending the Buck Mark. I have a slew of Rugers, but my BM UDX plus is my go to .22
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a9e61k.jpg

[Bawanna]

Amen brother.
http://www.marinecorpsactivewear.com/mcaw/productpics/totp-1_large.jpg
Semper Fi,
Greg

BTW, let me join the folks recommending the Buck Mark. I have a slew of Rugers, but my BM UDX plus is my go to .22
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a9e61k.jpg

That's about the sweetest Buckmark I've ever laid eyes on. Is that out of the box like that or had a bit of a makeover. Don't recall ever seeing one like that.

[jlottmc]

Leave it to Greg to come up with the pretty toys. BTW, I love that sketch you linked to. It fits.

[gb6491]

That's about the sweetest Buckmark I've ever laid eyes on. Is that out of the box like that or had a bit of a makeover. Don't recall ever seeing one like that.
Thanks Bawanna:) I did bead blast the recessed part of the slide. The front sight and trigger (with over travel screw) are replacements, but Buck Mark parts. The rest is stock out of the box.
Regards,
Greg

[MikeyKahr]

Now that's not a decent .22, that's a sweet .22, absolutely agree with uncle B and jlott! Way to go, Professor! And with all those toys you have, you must be sitting on some gold mines in "them thar' foothills"! ;)

[gb6491]

Now that's not a decent .22, that's a sweet .22, absolutely agree with uncle B and jlott! Way to go, Professor! And with all those toys you have, you must be sitting on some gold mines in "them thar' foothills"! ;)
Thanks Mikey:) No gold, but I did stumble upon a small seam of turquoise last year. It wasn't very good quality, but I thought it was a neat find.
Regards,
Greg

[jeepster09]

I guess I have owned most models of 22's and found the Smith to be the best made. I recently had one of the new Ruger 22/45's and was not impressed with it's PLASTIC receiver....I had issues with mag sticking and not wanting to drop out. I even tried a second one with threaded barrel hoping it would be better and it wasn't.....SOOOOO for me, live and learn. I ponied up and spent the money to get another MODEL 41 like I had some 30 years ago. Now I am happy and will never sell this one like in the past. Great shooter, well balanced and well made right out of the box. :yo:








http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1265.jpghttp://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1266.jpg

[Bawanna]

The 41's an incredible machine and I'll never part with mine either. Not a bad thing to say about it. Easy to take down, easy to clean all the nooks and crannies, accurate beyond belief even with me driving it. I don't know if mine had some trigger work in an earlier life or what but it's mind boggling. Usually first time shooters let one off long before they are ready but its not like it bumps off and fires, just clean and very light.

I'd like to get the 5" top end for mine so I have both but I'm perfectly happy with it as it is. Mine is a 73 version with the cocking indicator pin on the back. Only difference I can see between it and the later models. Probably others, I just dont see em.

[OldLincoln]

Absolutely love those grips!

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/SW41GripB.jpg

http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/OldLincoln/Misc/SW41GripA.jpg

[tibbits]

I bought a buckmark a month ago and added hi viz sights. does just what I intended - cheap to shoot, accurate and fun. issues are decreasing as rounds go up, and who cares anyway for a plinking pistol.
but, after I bought it, I discovered a kit to convert my p220 from .45 to .22. probably still would have bought the BM because the sig is a defense pistol and gets a lot more care immediately after shooting. and there was not a huge cost difference.
on my list now is to make an array of metal targets for the home range. refreshing targets is a pia and the 'ting' of a 22 hitting a right sized plate is perfect plinking in my opinion.