Considering P380

[hoghunter]

First post- new forum member here in Central Florida. Never owned a Kahr. Only .380 was a LCP I traded away the day after I bought it. I'm 6'5" 240lbs and I felt like crying my finger hurt so bad after only about 10 rounds (alright, I didn't actually cry). Went for the G27 thinking I could pocket carry a .40, ain't happening. I am not comfortable IWB carrying, only pocket- so I am back at the .380 showroom. Really like the PM9 for the caliber but I am guessing I won't comfortably carry in my pocket. I know these .380s aren't range guns but can anyone tell me to expect the same nightmare as the LCP or will this be remarkably different? If it is the same I could just get a KelTec P3AT. I am also considering the Sig P238 but the recall issues and posts kinda got me concerned. I want quality for close SD and everything I have heard/read says Kahr is where it is at. Thanks for any opinions on the above.

[BuckeyeBlast]

The P380 is in a completely different league than the LCP as far as shootability, but reliability of the P380 seems to be a crapshoot. Based on my experience, get a higher serial numbered P380 and you'll be happy. I sold my LCP and initially had problems w/ the P380, but w/ a 2nd and newer P380 the reliability problems are gone.

[hoghunter]

Thanks. Tough to know if you will get a high serial number if you buy through CDNN. The price they have seems to be unbeatable. At least as far as I can tell.

[slowpoke]

Welcome to KT!!
I can’t speak to the 380 but hears a thought:
At 6.5/240 I’m thinking that you could pocket carry the PM9 or CM9. While theses guns are a bit big for some people to pocket carry I think you may pull it off. I’m much smaller than you and I sometimes pocket my CM9 in cargo shorts although I prefer to IWB carry it. Also, maybe you just haven't run across an IWB that suits you.

[wyntrout]

I have most of the Kahrs... all that I really want, so far. I love the polymer models and carry the P380 a lot, especially around the house... comfortable.

All three... the .380, the 9mm , and the .45 shoot the same... accurate and all are alike in everything important... the the big-gun controls, etc. They differ in size and recoil. you're a big guy, so I don't see you getting by with the diminutive .380. I would choose the PM9 or the CM9. Both of these are pocket-carried by probably the majority of KahrTalk members. I can't see pocket carry... too confining and a drag in shorts... the pocket hanging and banging around.

In fact, the PM45 isn't THAT much bigger... though a stretch for pocket-carry! :D

I use a CrossBreed MiniTuck for my PM9... AND my PM45 fits it, too. So that was an unexpected savings on holsters! The K9 also fits it, but that's just too heavy for me... wearing shorts all of the time.

If you have the money, get the PM9. If a hundred bucks or so is a squeeze, get the CM9... after buying another magazine or two... and maybe upgrading the sights.

Welcome to KahrTalk and I know you'll get what you need in a Kahr... just don't settle for a .380... the PM/CM9's aren't much larger and have a bigger bite!

Wynn:)

[heeler]

Since I have heard on a semi regular basis how bad the recoil is and how unpleasant the LCP and P3AT are for firing on the range past a handful of rounds I am always somewhat confused and dismayed because although I have never fired either of those two or the Kahr P 380 I do own a Diamondback .380 and it's not rare at all that when I go to the range with it along with my PM9 that I dont shoot one to two 50 round boxes of ammo thru it without any discomfort.
And I am not a big guy.
I cant even imagine the P 380 being uncomfortable to shoot but again I am always confused when people talk about how uncomfortable the other two are to shoot.

[TominCA]

I have both the p380 and the PM9 - The p380 is having some issues (which may be getting fixed) but the new ones coming from the factory are probably good. It is small, easy to shoot and well made. But the PM9 is better because of the caliber and known reliability. At about 15 ounces the PM9 is really pretty easy to carry in a pocket holster and, although unlike the p380, you know it is there, a guy your size would probably match the pm9 better.

If your don't have any special clothing requirements the PM9 will hide well. If you really hate carrying a gun in your pocket and don't like the weight - then the P380 is better.

[wyntrout]

None of those are uncomfortable to shoot and the bike tube grip cover made mine perfect... all three... cheap and without detracting from the looks. The bare grips are toothy and slick plastic, but the bike tube gives just enough grip without adding girth or bulk... practical AND inexpensive... in my case free... even better! The 1.75" tube was just right. I started with the PM45 and the first attempt went to the PM9 and then the P380, until all three were fitted.

Pictures of my "Tupperware" below... and the K9. The K9 and the PM45 have polymer magazine bases, while the PM9 and the P380 have flush-fitting metal bases.

Wynn:)

[Barth]

I'm with the PM9/CM9 crowd on this one.
No pocket carry for a Glock 27 - absolutely.
But the Micro Kahr 9mm is single stack with a 3" barrel?

My MK40 is very comparable in size (generally speaking)
to my S&W 342 ti 38.
Its just more than twice the weight.

Also I have never shot the P380.
But the P9 was sweet.

[wyntrout]

All-steel... stainless steel... is nice, but heavy for CCW. The PM9 has a 3" barrel and is almost 6 ounces heavier than the P380, which is under 14 ounces fully loaded with 6+1.

I rarely carried the K9 because it's about 10 ounces heavier than the PM9!

Wynn:)

[hoghunter]

Guys- thanks so much for the replies. Looks like most everyone is in the PM9 corner. I would really prefer the PM9 for ammo cost and pure caliber. Just need to be sure that I am comfortable with it. I may just need to force the waist carry. I will keep reading and learning.
Ya'll are awesome.
Chris

[Barth]

All-steel... stainless steel... is nice, but heavy for CCW. The PM9 has a 3" barrel and is almost 6 ounces heavier than the P380, which is under 14 ounces fully loaded with 6+1.

I rarely carried the K9 because it's about 10 ounces heavier than the PM9!

Wynn:)

I go Stainless, on the weekends, with the right pants and belt.
But my S&W 342 is 14.0 oz fully loaded with 5 135 grain +Ps.
It goes everywhere...

[MikeyKahr]

Chris, there's bound to be a PM9 to give a whirl at your local fun shop or range in Central FL. Make sure to wear what you would normally wear and see how it shoots and how it fits. The PM9 in my pocket in a Nemesis holster is very comfortable. On the hip it's fine too.

[Barth]

Chris, there's bound to be a PM9 to give a whirl at your local fun shop or range in Central FL. Make sure to wear what you would normally wear and see how it shoots and how it fits. The PM9 in my pocket in a Nemesis holster is very comfortable. On the hip it's fine too.

Central Florida?
Tampa has a range where you can rent 3 Kahrs
http://shootingsportstampa.com/

Rented a K40, P40 and a P9 before I bought my MK40 Elite.
Always recommend kicking the tires and lighting the fires before buying.

[hoghunter]

Thanks again for the input. I went to the Genitron.com website (that is a great sight) and I am pumped up. I put my S&W 642 in and compared to the PM9. The PM9 is shorter by an inch and is only .9 oz heavier. I've been able to pocket the 642 so hopefully the PM9 will work.

[Barth]

Thanks again for the input. I went to the Genitron.com website (that is a great sight) and I am pumped up. I put my S&W 642 in and compared to the PM9. The PM9 is shorter by an inch and is only .9 oz heavier. I've been able to pocket the 642 so hopefully the PM9 will work.

Yup, Yup.
You're going to be fine.
Go get that PM9!
Desantis Super Fly or Nemisis are great pocket holsters.
Consider a Mag Packer for that spare mag.
Lot's of good ammo out there.
Let me recommend Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel -
http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?loadNo=23611
The ammo is specifically designed to perform well from 3" barrel autos.
Welcome to the World of Kahr!
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Kahr-PM9/DSC02415.jpg

[hoghunter]

Now I just need to figure out where the best deals are. Local shops are pricing these like they are made of pure gold.

[Barth]

Now I just need to figure out where the best deals are. Local shops are pricing these like they are made of pure gold.

I had to go online to get my MK40 Elite with NS.
http://www.lowpriceguns.com/
Good news is no sales tax.
Bad news is you have to send it to an FFL dealer and they charge like 45/50 bucks for the transfer (plus 10/15 shipping?).

The real deal is the new CM9.
It's the economy version of the PM9.
But from what I can tell it's just as good.
And how does around $450 sound?
http://i56.tinypic.com/15x5lbb.jpg

[heeler]

One thing about pocket carrying the PM/CM9 is the type of clothing you are wearing at the moment.
Since I live in humid blast furnace like Houston I wear shorts a lot and prefer shorts with cargo pockets in the front of the leg not on the side as this tends to make the shorts droop from the weight even with my 12 ounce fully loaded Diamondback .380.
So with this set up if the cargo pocket is too shallow I go with the .380.If they are slightly deeper I carry the PM9.
Since jeans being made out of 100% cotton they tend to shrink from washings and dryer sessions over time so I have certain jeans that must use the .380 as the PM9 is a bit too bulky with these.
Relaxed fit jeans,although frumpy as hell,work great as there is that skosh more room thing.
Now one more thing about pocket holsters.
Shortly after buying my PM9 I had read the the Uncle Mikes #4 was the fit for the PM so I bought it.
I already owned a #3 for my old S&W M 37 Airweight but then I read it also fits the PM9,which it does.
So what I have found is the slightly larger #4 will stay in the pocket upon drawing in tighter fit pockets where as the #3 tends to come out with the gun in said tighter pockets.
I prefer the slimmer #3 and do use it when I have a more full cut cargo or pants pocket.
Still researcing other holsters but for the way low cost you could buy a near life time supply of the various sized Uncle Mike's compared to what some big name leather pocket holsters are going for that are made specifically for the PM9.
Hope this helps.
Oh yea,I pocket carried my model 37 snub but I can tell you that since the pistol is a good inch or more in overall length the problem I kept having was the damn thing riding up and the butt handle being exposed.
I got quite the look from the guy beside me one day at a small grocery store that saw it.
J frames are reliable and light enough but they are far from perfect for pocket carry.
Then there is that wide cylinder.

[hoghunter]

heeler,
I am in FL so I know what you mean about humidity! I too have had the butt of the S&W start to float out of the pocket. I am usually wearing either dress pants for work & cargo shorts everywhere else. I have little doubt the P380 would fit better (it's just a math equation- smaller, lighter), but the PM9 is so nice.

[JFootin]

For pocket carry, my Wrangler jeans work perfectly. Even without a pocket holster, my CM9 (you're crazy if you pay the extra $200 for a PM9) sits there in perfect drawing position, doesn't rattle or shift around, doesn't fall to the side when I sit down (a smaller gun will do that), doesn't print at all when standing and very little when seated (a bulge sitting there, but not easily identifiable as a gun), and doesn't make my pants sag (I wear a good belt). In fact, whether seated, standing or walking, I cannot tell it is there! While a few ounces heavier than the P380, this is not at all a heavy gun.

To protect my gun and my pockets, I am going to get a premium quality El Paso Horsehide Pocket Holster at a great price HERE (http://gunholstersunlimited.com/el-paso-pocket-max-pocket-holster-ambidextrous-natural-kahr-pm9-pm40-mk9-mk40-pmpm9-1.html?cat_id=79).

[hoghunter]

JFootin,
I am sure there are already a ton of threads on CM vs PM which I have not read, but there has got to be some reason the CM is $200 more, correct? I am willing to pay for quality if it is actually worth it. Plus, I am generally leery of buying a first model run in anything.

[wyntrout]

Crazy! Dang, JFootin, those are pretty harsh words! By the time you add AT LEAST one spare magazine, upgrade the sights, and anything else that didn't quite suit you, you're A LOT CLOSER to the PM9 price... and you get more choices with the PM9... DLC, NS... with dovetail mount, etc.

When I ordered my first PM... well, the P380, I ordered mine with the night sights... don't like the dot and post. I did forgo the DLC because that would have added many more months to the 11-month wait. The PM9 I found LNIB for a decent price and the PM45 I found a good deal for one DLC, NS, and an extra magazine on Gunbroker... the extended-grip 6-round. The guns I had to wait for, I already had holsters and extra mags waiting when they arrived.
I didn't have the choice of a CM and I didn't care for the CW models, since I wanted the smallest version. Crazy?? Dang! Some guys spend $3,000 or more on their 1911's when you can get one for $400, but that's what they wanted... and, yeah, to ME, that's crazy... but to each his own.

The eventual maybe $100 difference is small change to get what you want.

Wynn:D

[slowpoke]

I have to agree with wyntrout on this one. I bought the CM9 for 450.00 and it only comes with one mag. Buy the time you buy another mag, and if you replace the sights your guna be real close to the price of the PM9.
On the other hand:
I was ok with the sights on my CM9 and I went for the 8 round mags that don't come with either gun so it worked out ok for me. It should be noted that some are having trouble with the larger mags in the CM ans PMs although I have not had any issues.

[heeler]

HogHunter,in all honesty the CM model is just fine.
I bought a PM9 because in January 2011 the CM models were not out.
Also the difference between the two is sights,I wanted the expensive nightsights which do not come with the CM.
The PM comes with a second magazine.
The CM's slide stop pin is MIM instead of solid steel(nothing wrong with that) and the PM comes with a prettier machined slide and as Wyntrout pointed out comes in a black version.
Other than that it's a poor mans PM.

[mser]

I carry the P380 in my pocket, either blue jeans or shorts, with or without a pocket holster. I'll carry the PM9 in my blue jeans pocket with a holster if I'm planning on leaving my shirt untucked and covering my pocket. Otherwise it's in a Glaco Ankle Glove. My M&P 40C and SP101 .357 are carried IWB or readily accessible in the car (but only if I've got one of the others on my person).

Carry methods vary from person to person just like firearm and ammunition preferences. Experimentation determines what you're comfortable with and best suits your current situation.

If you've narrowed your choices to Kahr, put all three guns (P380, CM9, PM) in front of you. Look them over, hold them, pull the trigger and check their function, put them in your pocket. Then get the one that you think you're going to be happy with and actually carry; don't settle on one just because it's cheaper, smaller in size or larger caliber.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Why would you pocket carry w/out a holster? If someone's considering a P380 for pocket carry, consider a proper holster a must.

[wyntrout]

I dropped my P380 into my pocket once, just to see what pocket carry was about... very scary... I really regretted that when I reached in to pull it out! That trigger finger just naturally goes for the trigger guard!!:eek:

I finally tried a holster and it was just too much weight and drag in my shorts. I like IWB so that I can draw the weapon from any position. When you're sitting down and wearing jeans... you're screwed! And how about strapped into your car seat!?

To each his own, but THAT's not for me!

JMHO

Wynn:)

[JohnInFlorida]

... I am not comfortable IWB carrying, only pocket- ...

What makes you uncomfortable about IWB carrying? I felt the same way initially and wound up buying a .380 for back pocket carry.

I then went on to purchase a PM9 and began trying to figure out what I had to do to get past the "uncomfortable feelings" while carrying it.

The problem, for me, was that I couldn't conceal it with a normal IWB carry. I don't know that I'm THAT oddly shaped, but I couldn't hide the PM9 carrying IWB. Maybe if I tried a size bigger shirt/pants, the problem would disappear, but I discovered something else that worked for me MUCH better.

Appendix IWB carry @ 2:00 or 2:30 and the pistol totally disappears! Shorts and a tee are enough to conceal it and no printing AT ALL!

I carry almost 100% of the time (all but at home) and now carry my PM9 in either a REMORA clipless OR or a leather/kydex (Crossbreed style) holster. My .380 now takes a backseat to my PM9 as I almost never carry it anymore.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if changing your IWB from 4:00 to 2:00 would solve your problem like it solved mine.

Stay safe!

[heeler]

Some people just cannot stand a pistol sandwiched between their pants and skin.
Then many will say get a pant two sizes larger in the waist to accomodate the pistol.
Err..Thanks,but no thanks.
I have done the IWB routine and find the only way I can do it semi comfortably is generally appendix carry and then only with a short,thin,and lightweight pistol,pretty much like the P380 or other micro .380's or .32 ACP.
And even then it's hard to get used to.
If I am going to wear a non tucked in shirt and carry a micro pistol it would seem logical that a nice outside the waist band holster might be the better choice.

[slowpoke]

Pocket carry with an exposed trigger would scare me.

[hoghunter]

Pocket carry with an exposed trigger would scare me.

I agree. First purchase after the gun would be a pocket holster.