Thinking about a Kahr/Auto Ordnance M1 Carbine

[cynergyou]

Hey All,

I'm thinking of gettting an M1 Carbine. It would be used for plinking, HD, and also perhaps for deer hunting (inside of 60 or 50 yards).

A local shop has a used a couple of used AO Carbines in stock. They have serial numbers that have an MA in it and are around 1300 and 5400 respectively.

Another local shop also has a genuine Winchester contract WWII-era M1 carbine for sale.

I have heard mixed reviews about the Kahr M1's. Most of the reviews I've seen are positive, but I have heard (and read) that some of the earlier guns had some problems. Should I take a chance and get one of the used AO carbines? would a gun with an MA5400 serial number would be considered an early production gun? Should I be concerned about quality issues with either of the AO guns?

Or should I get the old Winchester or a brand new, recent production AO carbine?

I'm less interested in getting a collector's gun. I just would like a reliable, reasonably accurate (2" at 50 yards) gun.

Thanks in advance!

[Embalmer]

I'd go with the usgi carbine over a ao one if their price was near the same. Their value will increase over time.

[PaiN]

My AO M1 has been fantastic. The little rifle is is laser accurate and has never had a failure of any kind. I've run mostly cheap Herter's ammo and have a ton of KCI mags, it always works.
I bought it over a USGI because I wanted a shooter not a collectable.

I added a Chaote stock some time ago and it is an improvement over the wood, use wise. (the wood did look damn good though ;) )
Pic:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x298/Mikepain_pics/M1%20Carbine%20Choate/DSC02971.jpg

[CJB]

I've got an old M1 Carbine, that used to be my constant companion when I spent extended time on three-wheeler or horseback up in central Florida. I don't even remember who made it.... H&R I think. Not so super accurate, but accurate enough to easily hit what needed hittin', be that coyote, alligator, or other undesirable. They tote easy, come into action easy and shoot easy. Perhaps not a great front line war weapon, I expect they did their job well as a dual duty weapon for the soldiers in the rear.

[O'Dell]

I also had the Idea of getting one of those several years ago, until I found out how much an original cost. I still remembered that you could pick one up for $50 in the sixties and got sticker shock when I priced one. I settled for a High-Point 9mm carbine which worked fine while I managed to hang on to it. I replaced it with a 45 carbine a few days ago, and now that I have my reflex red dot on it, I will try it next week.

[cynergyou]

Thanks folks for the replies. I checked that local shop a couple of days after I originally posted this thread and the WWII M1 carbine was already gone. There is a gunshow next month and I might try to find one or a new Kahr/AO M1.

My dad was issued an M1 sometime in the 1950's (he was a photographer in the US Army). We have some nice photos of him with his M1. We had a photo of him with a Garand (I think when he was training) but I dont' know where that particular photo is.

[O'Dell]

I've got an old M1 Carbine, that used to be my constant companion when I spent extended time on three-wheeler or horseback up in central Florida. I don't even remember who made it.... H&R I think. Not so super accurate, but accurate enough to easily hit what needed hittin', be that coyote, alligator, or other undesirable. They tote easy, come into action easy and shoot easy. Perhaps not a great front line war weapon, I expect they did their job well as a dual duty weapon for the soldiers in the rear.

I understand that the full-auto versions were quite popular with the Marines in the jungle wars in the South Pacific. The limited visibility made the limited range a non-factor, and they could pump out a lot of lead in a short time.

[CJB]

I understand that the full-auto versions were quite popular with the Marines in the jungle wars in the South Pacific. The limited visibility made the limited range a non-factor, and they could pump out a lot of lead in a short time.

Interesting side note on the 'Carbine. It was the first US Military weapon to use non-corrosive primers. Army Ordnance had a hell of a time with primer residue corrosion, even through WWII with the '06 and other rounds, including pistol rounds. They tried a few different formulas with spectacularly bad results (some blown up rifles). They had been burnt time upon time with non-corrosive formulas, and while the entire Civilian market had been using non-corrosive primers for years, the US Military plodded along with the tried and true (and corrosively salty) Frankford Arsenal formula.

I forget who's fault it was :rolleyes:, but the spec for the ammo was written into the M1 Carbine set of design parameters, and Winchester just used their civilian formula and that was that. So, all 'Carbines were non-corrosive primed, but I dont know if that fact got to the GI's out yonder in harms way - who were still most likely strictly drilled to enjoy their daily gun cleaning rituals. Carbines shot without a hitch in the really bad conditions of the South Pacific theater. They were noted for total reliability, even in full auto. The Garand had a good track record, not perfect but excellently well in performance, but.... it was big, heavy, and more importantly, the ammo was big and heavy... and even more importantly, it only held 9 shots to the Carbine's 31 shots - utterly dependable shots too.

And... you gotta also remember what came BEFORE the M1 Carbine... the Reising Gun! Never has the .45acp been done such injustice. Now THERE was a problem waiting to happen, and a story for another day.

[O'Dell]

Quite interesting. I didn't know that about the primers, but the older I get the more I discover what I don't know.

[Embalmer]

If you get a gi carbine with a good barrel, and good fit to recoil plate, you will have an accurate gun. Below is from my early 115xxx (100% original) inland carbine using the flip sight at 100 yards standing hold. The ones away from group was kentucky rivage to figure sighting, then was dead on. Original 11-42 barrel has a mz reading of 1. Collectable our not,i shoot everything I own. If I wanted something to look at, I'd buy paintings :-)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/maninblue1861/IMG078-1.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/maninblue1861/Cabine/188761_1830775739753_1551170463_1933483_8361185_n. jpg

[CJB]

Sweet

[Kahrdriver64]

There are alot of post wwII M1 carbines floating around at gunshows and the like. Universal Firearms was one that assembled and sold alot of them from surplus parts, Hileah was another. They don't run high, if all you want is a plinker.

[muggsy]

Hey All,

I'm thinking of gettting an M1 Carbine. It would be used for plinking, HD, and also perhaps for deer hunting (inside of 60 or 50 yards).

A local shop has a used a couple of used AO Carbines in stock. They have serial numbers that have an MA in it and are around 1300 and 5400 respectively.

Another local shop also has a genuine Winchester contract WWII-era M1 carbine for sale.

I have heard mixed reviews about the Kahr M1's. Most of the reviews I've seen are positive, but I have heard (and read) that some of the earlier guns had some problems. Should I take a chance and get one of the used AO carbines? would a gun with an MA5400 serial number would be considered an early production gun? Should I be concerned about quality issues with either of the AO guns?

Or should I get the old Winchester or a brand new, recent production AO carbine?

I'm less interested in getting a collector's gun. I just would like a reliable, reasonably accurate (2" at 50 yards) gun.

Thanks in advance!

The .30 carbine would be a marginal round for deer hunting. It's better suited for use on small predators and varmints.

[Captain O]

And... you gotta also remember what came BEFORE the M1 Carbine... the Reising Gun! Never has the .45acp been done such injustice. Now THERE was a problem waiting to happen, and a story for another day.

Wait a minute... The Reising isn't/wasn't a bad submachinegun. The problems arose when they were used in tropical/subtropical settings. The Reising needed to kept very clean. They shot and functioned quite well (Harrington and Richardson did a good job). The problem was in a hot and grimy area with a great deal of and and grit that fouled their actions. These subguns worked well in both Police and Nuclear Plant settings. Since they weren't being subjected to heavy soil and moisture, the Reising shot quite well and accurately too. Please get your facts straight before you bash a classic firearm. (Such maligning isn't really necessary).

Thank you.

[Captain O]

The .30 carbine would be a marginal round for deer hunting. It's better suited for use on small predators and varmints.

Tell this to the hundreds of deer that have been killed with Winchester HSP and other JSP ammunition at ranges of 50 and 75 yards. Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is "angels dancing on the heads of pins".