Smith & Wesson boycott.

[TheTman]

Do any of you remember when Smith and Wesson made the deal with the Clinton Administration and several groups organized a boycott of their products. The details of the deal they made and the boycott are here:
http://actionamerica.org/guns/swbetray.html

I just wonder if I'm the only one still boycotting their new products. I will still buy used S&W guns hoping they were made before the Clinton deal.
If I'm going to start shopping for a 686, I probably should get a copy of
The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson which lists production dates by serial number. Also keeping an eye out for a 617 .22.
I've read that all S&W revolvers made after their sale in 2001 to Saf T Hammer, have the locking mechanism built in, so I don't buy anything with the locking device. Having more parts to break is one thing, and then you have this ugly hole in the side of the revolver just above the cylinder release. I think the Taurus lock is much better looking and not nearly as noticeable, but I also read it has had more problems than S&W's design.
Anyway it's a gesture to the gun control crowd so screw the locks, there are plenty of nice used revolvers around, and some manufacturers that don't use them.

Anyway, is anyone else boycotting Smith and Wesson? Did you ever?
Did you even know about it?

[Barth]

Do any of you remember when Smith and Wesson made the deal with the Clinton Administration and several groups organized a boycott of their products. The details of the deal they made and the boycott are here:
http://actionamerica.org/guns/swbetray.html

I just wonder if I'm the only one still boycotting their new products. I will still buy used S&W guns hoping they were made before the Clinton deal.
If I'm going to start shopping for a 686, I probably should get a copy of
The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson which lists production dates by serial number. Also keeping an eye out for a 617 .22.
I've read that all S&W revolvers made after their sale in 2001 to Saf T Hammer, have the locking mechanism built in, so I don't buy anything with the locking device. Having more parts to break is one thing, and then you have this ugly hole in the side of the revolver just above the cylinder release. I think the Taurus lock is much better looking and not nearly as noticeable, but I also read it has had more problems than S&W's design.
Anyway it's a gesture to the gun control crowd so screw the locks, there are plenty of nice used revolvers around, and some manufacturers that don't use them.

Anyway, is anyone else boycotting Smith and Wesson? Did you ever?
Did you even know about it?

I've heard you can buy new 642's without a lock.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_922/products_id/70713

Both my Smiths are older pre-lock guns.
1989 M629-2 44 Mountain Revolver and a 2001 342 ti 38 CENTENNIAL .
These exact models aren't currently in production.

Never boycotted them.
Have a hard time punishing an entire company for the acts of a few at the top.
Just moved on to Sig Sauer and Kahr.

I might buy one again some day.
But I already have two wheel guns.
And that's Smiths bread and butter IMO...

[Bawanna]

They are also completely under new management and all the brass that kissed up to Clinton are gone.

I boycotted like everyone else for a long time, but I no longer give it a thought. They learned a huge lesson on that deal or at least I think they did. I don't see that happening again anytime soon.

[Longitude Zero]

I knew about it and consider boycotts a stupid waste of time. It is a symbolic gesture and I do not waste time/effort in that manner.

[Garland]

I did not know about it, so I bought this M&P 9 yesterday!
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n568/garlandmeyer/1925e408.jpg

[O'Dell]

I don't do boycotts. They've always seemed to me to be a prime example of "cutting off one's nose to spite your face". Why should I deprive myself of something I want or need because some faceless entity within an organization made a comment or issued some edict however misguided.

I have had several 3rd gen S&W all metal pistols and they have all been fine guns. I still still have a CS45 and 457S that were both built in 2005. When the M&P c 45 was stolen, I replaced it with a M&P c 40. I don't carry it as much as the CW40 because it's thicker and heavier, but it's a completely dependable, smooth shooting pistol, and it does hold three more rounds than the CW.

[TheTman]

Intresting. thanks for the answers. I find myself wanting a couple of S&W wheelguns, but can't get used to that ugly hole on the side for the lock. You'd think they could come up with something less obvious and ugly. I'll keep looking for a good buy at the gun shows. Oh and I heard they are doing away with the lock's on certain models, so maybe there is hope they will expand that to the others as well. The Boycott never affected me that much as I got into autoloaders, and S&W was not my first choice for those. Sprinfield Armory and Beretta and Star had what I was looking for.
I wish I'd went Beretta instead of Star, as it stovepipes once in awhile, but overall, it a very solid build to last pistol. Last I heard on the Model 30, they had put 100,000 rounds through one without any malfunctions. I'm sure springs were replaced and such as you'd expect, but the frame barrel, slide, etc, held up very well

[Dietrich]

I didn`t know about a boycott because it was before my days on the internet.I bought two model 642s and both had the internal lock.I simply had them removed.Did the same thing with my Rossi .357 snubnose too.The trigger locks provided with new guns are quickly disposed of once they get to my house.In my opinion,a lock on a firearm is like hitting Ol` Nemo with a rubber mallet.It renders the weapon useless.

[TheTman]

Dierich, were you able to get those ugly holes filled in? They're not so bad on a blue gun but really stick out on a stainsless steel model.

[BuckeyeBlast]

I remember there being one against Ruger, never knew of the one against S&W. I wasn't of legal handgun purchasing age back then, so didn't pay much attention to it anyways.

[Dietrich]

Dierich, were you able to get those ugly holes filled in? They're not so bad on a blue gun but really stick out on a stainsless steel model.
On the 642s,there was no hole.The part where you would insert the key remained.Only the internal locking mechanism itself was removed.The gun still looks as if it has the internal lock in it.Not so on the Rossi but it is blued and the keyhole on it is on the hammer so you really don`t notice it.

[beatlesfan]

I was too young to buy guns back then, but I probably wouldn't have boycotted. I own a Smith 36 Chief's Special from the mid 70's. Still very accurate and easily concealable in a OWB holster. There's just something elegant about an old revolver with tons of holster wear. I love the little wood grips on it to. Smith really is the king of wheel guns.

[J4Cub]

IF you go over to the S&W forum, one of the regulars makes a fill for the empty lock holes. He offers then both in Blue and Stainless for $25.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/102217-plug-s-w-j-frame.html

Bob L

[garyb]

I was aware of the issue and the rumored boycott, but I was not buying handguns at the time. I did recently buy a S&W for my wife and we are very happy with it. I am the kind of person that quickly forgives anyway.

[ltxi]

They are also completely under new management and all the brass that kissed up to Clinton are gone......



Exactly.

Also...don't own any guns with integral locks. Blessed with already having all the revolvers I need/wanted before that idiocy came into being.

[apdturbo]

i know smith and wessons are legendary but i'm not a fan of their newer semi-auto pistols, they did at one time have an all metal single stack 9mm i liked but i cant remember the model and it hasn't been made for years, i boycott because of this, they change up their product line to frequently for a gun manufacturer imo. and the m&p pistols seem generic to me.

[Longitude Zero]

It sounds like you are describing the Model 39.

[LaP]

My wife and I have both owned S&W 642 revolvers with the Abominal Lock.:eek:

She's put thru about 1500 rounds on hers and I've got about 3500 rounds on mine....NO problems...none...nada...zip.
Yeah, that lock is really killing me.:cool:

[ltxi]

It sounds like you are describing the Model 39.
Instantly my thought as well....I'm really old.

[O'Dell]

i know smith and wessons are legendary but i'm not a fan of their newer semi-auto pistols, they did at one time have an all metal single stack 9mm i liked but i cant remember the model and it hasn't been made for years, i boycott because of this, they change up their product line to frequently for a gun manufacturer imo. and the m&p pistols seem generic to me.

The 3rd gen S&W pistols were some of the most dependable guns ever made. I have owned six, [still have two] and shot a great deal more, and have never seen even a hint of a problem. I'm not sure what you mean by generic, but my M&P compact looks exactly like a slightly scaled down version of my HK45C. If you mean that they are black, have excellent ergonomics, and always work, I guess I'm all for generic.

[Bawanna]

A model 59 the double stack 39 was my first auto. Always wanted a 39 but never did get one. I had a 645 the compact single stack and a 4006? All trouble free. After getting Para LDA's and 1911's I had a hard time with DA/SA, just could'nt shoot em very good anymore.

[TheTman]

I ran across an interesting article while looking up some things on S&W. Chuck Hawks has a few things to say about them in an article "The Darks Side of Smith & Wesson. I've only had one S&W and it's been damn fine pistol.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm

[Barth]

I ran across an interesting article while looking up some things on S&W. Chuck Hawks has a few things to say about them in an article "The Darks Side of Smith & Wesson. I've only had one S&W and it's been damn fine pistol.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm

All this Smith talk has got me hankering for a 640-1.
Always wanted one and never got one.
Mmmmm.
Anybody got a new in box they want to get rid of cheap???
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/1851087_sw640_4m?hei=380&wid=380

[ltxi]

A model 59 the double stack 39 was my first auto. Always wanted a 39 but never did get one. ..............

I had one of each. Bought them sometime back in the mid-late '70s just because they were something different. Sold the 59 first because no matter how much I wanted to like it, it just did not fit my small hand. Then soon after, I traded the still like new 39 to a guy for a beautiful, S&W custom shop reworked 4" Model 19. He'd just had it done, his department was switching to the Model 39s, and he couldn't afford both. I went back to 1911 autos, which I preferred anyway, and the 19 went into my small collection of "never, ever part with" guns. I think I may be up to six of those by now.

[.45fan]

To the OP, when looking at a model 686 the -4 is the best model you can get. The -5 is where the MIM parts started and the -6 is the begining of the lock.

As far as the boycott, they are under different ownership so I don't hold the current company at fault for what the foreigners did years ago.

But yes i did not buy any guns from that company during that ownership.

[TheTman]

Thanks for the info .45fan. I'm not sure what you mean by -4, -5, -6. Would that be part of the serial number?

[Barth]

Thanks for the info .45fan. I'm not sure what you mean by -4, -5, -6. Would that be part of the serial number?

Don't know for sure. But it's got to be the model number.
686-4
I have a 629-2 and the -1/-2/-3 indicates the various models/generations of the gun.
Later numbers have newer features (for better or worse).

For instance the 640-1 357 is suppose to be the best of the 640s.
Later versions have the internal lock (and maybe different trigger mechanisms?)

[Bawanna]

Also why you'll see them advertised as a no dash which usually brings a premium price.

Some times the dash model might not have anything at all that the average person can see. Sometimes like the ignition key its obvious.

Thanks 45 fan, I've had a hankering for another 686, I'll look for a -4 myself.

[TheTman]

I've been looking at .357's today, Some Tauruses have been looking acctractive. I've had several Taurus revolvers, all have been pretty good guns. I'm starting to like the Model 608, stainless steel, built on a large frame (44 oz), holds 8 rounds of .357, and comes with ported barrel, 4" or 6". Jet Guns has them at around $435. Looks an awful lot like the 686. I'd rather find a good used 686, but I sure like the features on that Taurus, the porting and the 2 extra rounds. It's getting difficult to find used guns with the paper and craigslist not taking gun ads. Next gun show is over a month away, might check to see there are any sooner within driving distance. Wouldn't mind hitting that big one down in Tulsa once just to see what it's like. Ours just get smaller and smaller with vendors shutting down due to the govt. crap they have to go through.

[Longitude Zero]

Chuck Hawks sounds like a sour grapes bung hole to me. I would not sonsider any Taurus reveolver if S&W has a competing model.

I will be at the Wanamaker show in Tulsa, have not missed it in years. My only advice is if you see it and want it buy it. Because if you look at every booth the show will close before you get back to buy the item you wanted.

[TheTman]

I don't know much about Chuck Hawks, but he does seem to have some issues with S&W. I've been very happy with my Taurus revolvers, but I'd rather buy american.
I just ended up with the Taurus's due to some prices I couldn't pass up.
I was under the impression that some of the Taurus models, like the 66 were produced on S&W equipment they aquired somehow, so it was basically the same gun as the S&W, although who can say if the metal used was of the same quality as S&W. Have no idea if that is true or not, just something I heard over the years.
What I'd like to do is have a 3 pistol collection of S&W stainless steel products, I have a 6" model 629 .44 mag, and would like to add a 4" 686 .357 and the 617 .22 4" barrel. I'd like to get the .22 version with the 10 shot cylinder, but that is probably going to have that ugly hole on the side, which someone earlier mentioned could be plugged up. I'd like to see pics of a gun with the hole plugged to see how it looked. I think those 3 would like nice in a custom built display case I could mount in my man cave when I get my house back. Only my most trusted friends are alloowed in my cave, so not many would see it and get ideas. I did read that the locks are being phased out, and that you can already get the 642 and 442 without the lock. Hopefully they will expand that to the other revolvers soon.
I wonder if our woodworking master craftsmen Bawanna does display cases?

[Bawanna]

"I wonder if our woodworking master craftsmen Bawanna does display cases? "

I have in the past but I'm probably not the guy for the job, we do have some boat carpenters around here, Mikey, ?? Hmm what a strain on the memory bank. I've done some smaller display cases for retirees, gifts etc but I'm really not set up to really do them nice the way I'd really like.

I hope theres enough time that someday I can move my shop into a production type mode rather than a storage unit for Freddy Sanford but I'm not holding out much hope.

I make grips in my man cave which gives everything in there a nice dust patina and a dusting nightmare for time to time.

[Barth]

I’m going to get in big trouble for this one but here goes.
Guns to me are forever.
I’m going to keep the good ones and pass them down to the kids.
I’d much rather spend extra money to get exactly the gun I want.
With revolvers, it’s the big three for me.
Smith, Colt and Ruger.
These are the guns of legend.
With fit, finish and accuracy above the rest.

Taurus, Charter Arms, H&R… are second tier to me.
Not that they don’t work.
They are just not guns I’d hand down to my kids.

And I love the look on people’s faces when they pull those glassy triggers.

[.45fan]

Thanks for the info .45fan. I'm not sure what you mean by -4, -5, -6. Would that be part of the serial number?


The others have already answered this but I will add an example of the model 686. It started as a plain 686 "no dash", then the 686 -1 had a few "improvements" then the -2 was made "better" and so on. Every "improvement" added a new "dash" number I know the 686 and 629 that the -4 is the best because after that number they went down hill. The dash 6 was where the lock started so "improvement" is a term used loosely with S&W revolvers.

The -4 of those models were made around 1993 or 94. I don't have a book to be exact but it was in that area.

If you run across a 629 -4 classic with a 6.5" barrel for under $600.00 please let me know. They were $400.00 new and my dummy self sold mine a few years ago, I see them going for as high a $1000.00 now.

[TheTman]

Thanks Bawanna and .45fan for clearing that up for me. My 629 is from around that time, always been a tack driver. That's one I'll be hanging on to though. I too have noticed the price steadily going up. And I just thought I'd ask. I have the tools to build a case no problem there. Dad was a carpenter when he wasn't farming, did everything from the framing to the finish work and taught me quite a bit. I figure something like an oak box, with a glass door would work fine. Also thought about using peg board on one of the walls of my cave and hanging my old military weapons on the wall. Wish I could find a Springfield 30.06 to round out the collection, but they are usually priced fairly steep. I did get lucky and get an incredible buy on an Enfield P-17 30.06 by Remington I guess that was the rifle that most the US troops used during WWI due to the scarcity of the Sprinfields. That is a fine shooting, though very heavy rifle. Probably should grab a bolt action russian gun or two while they are still fairly cheap.
I agree that the Colt, S&W, and Rugers are the ones for investments. Tauruses are ok, guns you toss in a saddlebag and don't worry if they get nicked a little, or hide around the house. My Charter Arms .44 is one that get's carried a lot, but shot little. I mostly bought it because it was lightweight, stainless, inexpensive, and fairly close to a .45 ACP ballistically. And has some pretty good SD ammo available.

[les strat]

Here is what the hole looks like plugged on my 642. Got the plug from John on S&W forum for $25.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/KevinJenne/IMG_3478.jpg


Not too bad. I took the lock out myself in about 10 minutes.

[Barth]

Here is what the hole looks like plugged on my 642. Got the plug from John on S&W forum for $25.

Not too bad. I took the lock out myself in about 10 minutes.

This whole lock thingy has got me twitchy now - LOL!
I didn't even know about it!
Both of my Smiths are pre-lock (1989 629-2 and a 2001 342 ti).
I bought my 342 for $570 new.
Saw one new in box today for $800.00!
It's interesting that Smith has some LE guns without locks.
And now starting to produce non LE no lock in .38? Weird.
No more K frames either?!?

Sad now...

(I'm feeling the need for a NIB 640-1 real bad!!!)

[TheTman]

Well, for now I think I'm going to replace my Dan Wesson with another Dan Wesson, found one LNIB, doesn't even have the "ring" around the cylinder. He says he's never shot it, and his dad shot it just few times. Has the box and paperwork and everything. The guy was a little steep on the price, but he was going to check prices on GunsAmerica and GunBroker. Only thing is it has the 10 inch barrel, guess it'd make a good billy club if you ran out of ammo. I have a 6" barrel, so that's no problem.
He really wants to trade it for a semi-auto, Might be able to trade my Star Model 30 9mm, though I hate to get rid of that tank.
I think the next guns show is in October so got some time for the gun fund to recover before I start looking for a 686 pre-lock.
THANKS for he pic Les-Strat, I was wondering what those looked like with the plug not too noticible really. I think I'd still rather have a pre-lock one though.

[les strat]

This whole lock thingy has got me twitchy now - LOL!
I didn't even know about it!
Both of my Smiths are pre-lock (1989 629-2 and a 2001 342 ti).
I bought my 342 for $570 new.
Saw one new in box today for $800.00!
It's interesting that Smith has some LE guns without locks.
And now starting to produce non LE no lock in .38? Weird.
No more K frames either?!?

Sad now...

(I'm feeling the need for a NIB 640-1 real bad!!!)

FYI, Ruger LCR's have the lock as well... under the grip! Many LCR owners bash S&W and don't even realize their's has the Hillary hole as well, lol. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it unless it was on a scadmium frame .357 or .44 (and I promise you I won't be owning one of those torture devices!). It was more of a looks thing for me.

[Barth]

I miss the throw in the trash trigger locks.
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SW_342PD/Mvc-023f.jpg

[TheTman]

Yep, that's all that was ever needed. Just adding more internal parts to a gun is just more to break or foul up on you.

[MW surveyor]

I miss the throw in the trash trigger locks.


I've kept mine and may now have a use for them as the grandson is crawling around.

[patbelly]

les strat. Where did you get that grip for your S&W 642? Sweet.

[les strat]

les strat. Where did you get that grip for your S&W 642? Sweet.

From a seller off of ebay... I think it was "butterflyorchid" or some name like that. They are rosewood, and I really like the dark grain. They are round butt to square butt conversion. I do not keep them on the gun anymore as they are a little large, and I often pocket carry the 642. They are great for the range though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/KevinJenne/IMG_3477.jpg

[patbelly]

Thanks for the reply. I don't carry my J-frame often but still love to shoot at the reange. I think that grip would be perfect.

[jlottmc]

I keep my trigger locks too but for an entirely different reason: practice locks to keep my picking skills sharp.

[Barth]

I've got Eagle Secret Service grips on my S&W 342 ti and 629-2.
The fit and finish is truely amazing.

[TheTman]

I left the rubber grips on my 629 not sure it has a dash, bought after they first came out and were advertising their incredible accuracy. I bought one to use in a pistol competition, and then found out they don't allow magnum loads. It just doesn't shoot as well with .44 special. With magnum medium velocity target loads it is a tack driver. Not sure why it doesn't do so well with .44 special. Bullet too far away from the forcing cone in my guess.

[Barth]

It just doesn't shoot as well with .44 special. With magnum medium velocity target loads it is a tack driver. Not sure why it doesn't do so well with .44 special. Bullet too far away from the forcing cone in my guess.

Mine is the same way (629-2).
I think you're right. Magnum 44/357 revolvers shoot the longer magnum
rounds more accurately than specials. My understanding is that S&W 38 only guns shoot 38s more accurately
than 357s shooting 38s.

[TheTman]

I think you're right Barth. I was going to get a S&W model 14, but since you had to shoot revolvers double action, I decided to use my .45 instead. Some of those old boys could really shoot those revolvers double action with damn good results. The 629 had a catch in the trigger pull just before the hammer fell, and I go to where I could use that for pretty good results, but I'd miss it too often to place in the money very much. The .45 I was using shot about 3-4" groups at 25 yards back then, so it wasn't all that great a target pistol. Wish I'd had my Kimber back then.

[Brittanyman]

Worked part-time for 20 years in a gun store back in Western PA. I've owned a number of S&Ws - Models 59, 669, 60, 19 (4&6"), & 66 (4"). The only S&Ws I own now are .22lr - Model 18 (Combat Masterpiece 4"), Model 63 and an old Model 17 before it was called the K22. The revolvers are really quality firearms.

When S&W was owned by an English company some of their firearms were junk. We would order guns in for stock. When we opened them up to put out in the display case, we would notice problems like barrels not aligned properly and the front sight was canted, cylinder slop, terrible triggers, fit, finish and blueing was terrible. We would pack them back up and sent them to Smith to be corrected.

The Ruger boycott was over Ruger's refusal to supply high capacity mags for their semi-auto pistols and the Mini-14 and Mini-30.

[jeep45238]

Can't boycott 'em, products are too good for me.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/SW%20MP9Pro/Photo56.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s127/jeep45238/Range%20Time/Photo101.jpg

[hardluk1]

I own 2 s&w's One is and old model 10 and a nw 49 cal.sigma for around the house. There is nothing else that s&w makes to me that is worthy of the prices today also to many older shooter there custom shop firearms are not as good as there older production fireams. If I need a revolver it will be of my several dan wessons or old taurus revolvers and for semi=autos its glock, kahr or xd even kt. Or one many others. I wished I had bought a couple S&W handguns from them many years back ,not today.