.45 distance?

[MERCTECH]

If aiming level, approx. how far will it travel. Just wondering how far a jhp will travel if you missed your target. Ive heard the .45 wont go as far as a 9mm because of size. Dont know if its true but if it was would it make the .45 better for self defense. Whats your guys opinion?

[jocko]

we should do a field test.

u stand at 100 yards and I will aim at ur head, and we will take bets to see if it hits ur head, chest, nuts, knees foot

I bet u will be talking in a higher pitch!!

to answer ur question as u can see I haven't a clue

[Barth]

If aiming level, approx. how far will it travel. Just wondering how far a jhp will travel if you missed your target. Ive heard the .45 wont go as far as a 9mm because of size. Dont know if its true but if it was would it make the .45 better for self defense. Whats your guys opinion?

Somebody is going to look this up - LOL.
Generally lighter faster bullets have a flatter trajectory.
My 125 grain 357 Sig is crazy flat running.

So a 860 fps 230 grain is going to fall more at distance than a supersonic 115 9MM (especially +P+).
I think its the velocity more than anything else.

Basically the world is your back stop.
You need to practice. And be confident of your target before you fire.
Don't think either is better or worse for SD.

[MERCTECH]

we should do a field test.

u stand at 100 yards and I will aim at ur head, and we will take bets to see if it hits ur head, chest, nuts, knees foot

I bet u will be talking in a higher pitch!!

to answer ur question as u can see I haven't a clue

Lets see I still need my nuts so anywhere else is acceptable. lol

[MERCTECH]

Somebody is going to look this up - LOL.
Generally lighter faster bullets have a flatter trajectory.
My 125 grain 357 Sig is crazy flat running.

So a 860 fps 230 grain is going to fall more at distance than a supersonic 115 9MM (especially +P+).
I think its the velocity more than anything else.

Basically the world is your back stop.
You need to practice. And be confident of your target before you fire.
Don't think either is better or worse for SD.

I agree I definetely need more practice,me and some friends where just bs about missing targets when one piped up about the diference in size.

[Barth]

Cartridge (Wb@MV) Bullet BC 25 yds. 50 yds. 100 yds. MPBR (yds.)
.221 Fireball (50 at 2600) .238 +0.7" +1.8" +2.9 237
.25 ACP (50 at 760) .116 +2.9" +2.8" -10.5" 80
.30 Carbine (105 at 1600) .150 +1.4" +2.7" +1.8" 139
.32 ACP (71 at 905) .118 +2.5" +2.9" -5.4" 90
.32 S&W Long (100 at 705) .167 +3.1" +2.6" -13.4" 75
.32 H&R Mag. (85 at 1100) .145 +2.1" +3.0" -1.7" 106
.32-20 Win. (100 at 1000) .170 +2.2" +2.9" -2.8" 98
.380 ACP (90 at 1000) .099 +2.3" +2.9" -3.5" 96
9mm Makarov (95 at 975) .100 +2.3" +2.9" -3.8" 95
9mm Luger (115 at 1135) .140 +1.9" +2.9" -1.7" 107
9mm Luger (124 at 1100) .145 +2.1" +3.0" -1.7" 106
9mm Luger (147 at 990) .212 +2.1" +2.7" -3.2" 98
.38 Super (125 at 1240) .145 +1.9" +3.0" -0.3" 115
.357 SIG (125 at 1350) .145 +1.7" +2.9" +0.4" 122
.38 Spec. (125 at 850) .151 +2.4" +2.6" -7.1" 85
.38 Spec. (140 at 800) .169 +2.6" +2.8" +-8.3" 82
.38 Spec. (158 at 760) .139 +3.1" +2.7" -10.1" 79
.38 Spec. +P (110 at 1000) .131 +2.2" +3.0" -3.4" 98
.38 Spec. +P (125 at 950) .151 +2.3" +2.9" -4.0" 95
.38 Spec. +P (158 at 890) .139 +2.6" +3.0" -5.5" 90
.357 Mag. (110 at 1300) .131 +1.8" +2.9" 0.0" 117
.357 Mag. (125 at 1235) .151 +1.9" +3.0" -0.3" 115
.357 Mag. (125 at 1450) .151 +1.6" +2.8" +1.1" 129
.357 Mag. (140 at 1000) .169 +2.2" +2.9" -3.1" 99
.357 Mag. (140 at 1400) .169 +1.6" +2.8" +0.9" 127
.357 Mag. (158 at 1250) .206 +1.8" +3.0" +0.1" 119
.357 Mag. (180 at 1180) .230 +1.9" +2.9" -0.4" 115
.40 S&W (135 at 1190) .093 +2.0" +2.9" -1.7" 106
.40 S&W (155 at 1180) .137 +2.0" +3.0" -0.8" 111
.40 S&W (180 at 950) .164 +2.3" +2.9" -4.2" 95
10mm Auto (155 at 1300) .137 +1.8" +2.9" 0.0" 119
10mm Auto (180 at 1150) .164 +2.0" +3.0" -1.1" 110
.41 Rem. Mag. (210 at 1300) .182 +1.7" +2.8" +0.2" 120
.44 Spec. (240 at 750) .182 +3.1" +2.6" -9.3" 78
.44 Rem. Mag. (200 at 1000) .122 +2.3" +2.9" -3.3" 98
.44 Rem. Mag. (200 at 1295) .122 +1.4" +2.8" +0.3" 121
.44 Rem. Mag. (225 at 1450) .146 +1.6" +2.8" +1.1" 129
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 at 1144) .205 +1.7" +3.1" +/- 0" 118
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 at 1172) .205 +1.6" +3.0" +0.1" 120
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 at 1200) .205 +1.6" +3.0" +0.5" 122
.44 Rem. Mag. (265 at 1300) .189 +1.8" +2.9" +0.5" 123
.44 Rem. Mag. (300 at 1150) .245 +2.0" +2.9" -0.7" 112
.45 ACP (185 at 1000) .109 +2.2" +2.8" -3.7" 96
.45 ACP (200 at 975) .138 +2.3" +3.0" -3.8" 97
.45 ACP (230 at 850) .195 +2.6" +2.5" -6.9" 88
.45 Colt (200 at 1000) .138 +2.2" +2.9" -3.5" 98
.45 Colt (225 at 960) .158 +2.2" +2.9" -3.9" 95
.45 Colt (250 at 860) .138 +2.5" +2.8" -6.9" 86
.45 Win. Mag. (260 at 1200) .183 +1.8" +2.9" -0.6" 113
.454 Casull (260 at 1300) .183 +1.7" +2.8" +0.2" 120
.454 Casull (260 at 1800) .183 +1.2" +2.5" +2.5" 159
.454 Casull (300 at 1625) .199 +1.4" +2.7" +2.1" 148
.475 Linebaugh (400 at 1300) .182 +1.7" +2.8" +0.2" 120
.480 Ruger (325 at 1350) .150 +1.7" +2.9" +0.6" 123
.50 AE (325 at 1400) .149 +1.6" +2.8" +0.8" 126
.50 S&W Mag. (325 at 1600) .149 +1.4" +2.7" +1.8" 139

[wayneo1]

Oh man thats just too much info, just dont miss the target or use a bigger one. :)
Math has never been a strong suit.

[Bawanna]

It's all a Fig Newton Relatively Watson. Weight is a factor, heavy drops faster than light. Speed is a big factor regardless of weight but a light fast will go further than a heavy fast.

So in summary based on the coalition of relativity, mass, volume, ball protective inflammatories, yes. The 45 is definitely the better defensive round.



Kahrtalk and it's subsidiaries take no responsibility for anything this person says.

[Barth]

It's all a Fig Newton Relatively Watson. Weight is a factor, heavy drops faster than light. Speed is a big factor regardless of weight but a light fast will go further than a heavy fast.

So in summary based on the coalition of relativity, mass, volume, ball protective inflammatories, yes. The 45 is definitely the better defensive round.

LOL!
What are we talking about here anyway? Being a sniper?
Out to 25 yards it's a wash. And 25+ is ridiculous for SD.
Practice, Practice, Practice.

(got to go to the gym at 4:44am - talk to you all later)

[melissa5]

Wait until you can see the whites of their eyes, then blast em! :33: :biggrin1:

[J4Cub]

If I remember right, you can take a gun with the barrel parrallel to the ground and fire a shot. If at the same time the bullet leaves the end of the barrel, you drop one, they will both hit the ground at the time. The difference is the bullet that was fired will hit the ground a ways away. How far away depends on the coefficent of friction or how smoothly the bullet passes through the air. The higher the COF, the less drag there is from the air to slow it down, so it will go farther, faster but will still hit the ground at the same time. That is what I remember anyway. And take that froma guy who doesn't remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

[BuckeyeBlast]

This never gets old:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e146/pawtner/CaliberComparison.jpg

[Russ]

Gravity is constant. If you fire a round perfectly horizontal (assuming the ground is constant vertically) and drop the same bullet at the exact same time from the same vertical distance to the ground they will both hit the Earth at the same time. Therefore, the greater the velocity the further the bullet will travel before it hits the ground. Resistance is a variable however, when discussing gravity. A feather for example will drop at a slower rate than a bowling ball due to resitance.

[wyntrout]

All of these things will be equal in a vacuum. The feather will hit the ground at the same time as a lead weight released from the same height... no air to slow the feather down.

We use a constant for gravity, but you have to remember the earth is not symmetrical nor a solid, single substance sphere, and it's rotating on its axis while revolving about the Sun in an elliptical orbit. All of these things and the proximity of the Moon and the Sun have their effect on everything on this planet, but for very short distances and most things that don't require great precision, a simple constant for gravity works well enough.

Jus' sayin'.

Wynn:D

[O'Dell]

It's all a Fig Newton Relatively Watson. Weight is a factor, heavy drops faster than light. Speed is a big factor regardless of weight but a light fast will go further than a heavy fast.

So in summary based on the coalition of relativity, mass, volume, ball protective inflammatories, yes. The 45 is definitely the better defensive round.



Kahrtalk and it's subsidiaries take no responsibility for anything this person says.

Maybe Fig Newton would agree that weight is a factor with gravity, but I doubt that Issac would.

Velocity is the key here.

[CJB]

Calculating the maximum ordinate....

I remember trying to calculate it for my .38 reloads once. Didn't do too well. My Security-Six testing in fallow bean fields told me that it was about 400 yards when the barrel was held about 25-30 degrees up. It was fun lobbing the dewc slugs at groups of birds like a mortar round when the testing was over.

Hatcher implies that these United States fought two World Wars with the "wrong ammo", whereby: Pre-WWI we had the 150g spitzer, which proved to be accurate, but was totally outclassed by the German 8mm ammo in WWI. During the War to end all Wars, we borrowed the boat tail design from the Swiss, and finally after some (years of) testing, came up with the best boat tail angle and the famous 174g cupro-nickel bullet that shot really well, and carried well better than any ammo anyone else had at the time. The trouble was, the war was over at that point, by about 8 years. We did manage to squeak out victory, despite the ammo limitations.

After the war, surplus ammo was sold to clubs, and also used for general training at Army bases. This presented a problem, since the rotation of the ammo into surplus status eventually showed that the new bullets flew so well, that they far exceeded the safety zones beyond the target points at existing ranges. US Army Ordnance (the flaming bomb guys), decided to make up some 152g spitzers again, out of gilding metal, and they dyed them with a solution (tin?) that made them resemble the cupro-nickel bullets of the old days.

Fast forward a few more years, to WWII. The doughboys liked shooting (and carrying) the 152g M2 ball much better than the 174g M1 ball. So thats what they did. As Hatcher put it - all the old machine gunners and snipers of WWI were gone... and there was no collective memory of the distance limitations that the flat base lighter bullet had.

So, history had gone full circle, another World War, and we again had the wrong ammo to get the job done best. Interesting lesson to be learned there, no?

[kb2wji]

I agree that fast will go further than slow. Drop a 9mm, 40, 45 etc... from a roof top. They will all hit the ground at the same time. Air resistance plays a role, but will be very negligible when comparing bullets. All those bullets will be dropping at pretty much the same rate....it mostly boils down to how far that bullet travels each second. Accelleration of gravity is the same regardless of bullet size/weight.

[CJB]

The case(s) in question don't really apply... but you cannot negate air resistance from the thought process. Taken a step further, an exceedingly light bullet at tremendous velocity would not fare so well at longer ranges. There is the momentum that is quickly lost to the greater resistance at very high speed. Also - supersonic resistance is much higher than subsonic. If you look at the curves for different cartridges/ammo types, they all take a blip at the speed of sound (more or less). Pistol bullets hover right over or right under the supersonic threshold....but its not a great factor as pistol bullets aren't really that aerodynamically efficient.

Back to air resistance - the old example applies: Given a high enough airplane, a pistol fired down at the ground would project a constantly decelerating bullet, which would slow to the point where the acceleration of gravity was equal to the resistance applied by the atmosphere - also known as terminal velocity - which also is quite slow for pistol bullets, in ballistic terms.

[johnatw]

Dang, a lot of folks stayed at the Holiday Inn this week.

[jocko]

bet that guy never ask that question again!!

[Russ]

Wynn you bring up a good point regarding the curve of the Earth. I watched an Imax regarding the space shuttle and the astronauts are constantly falling but due to the curve of the Earth and the rate of speed they are orbiting the Earth they avoid hitting the ground.

[Dietrich]

bet that guy never ask that question again!!

Are you kidding? I wish I had asked it.He`s probably rolling on the floor,laughing his hiney off.I know I would be.

[yqtszhj]

My completely unscientific comment is this based on the following redneck ballistics.

The faster and more streamlined the bullet, the farther it goes but one must also consider the mass of the round and Newtons law of motion. I make this comment based on my following findings:

.380 90 gr. JHP at 990 fps goes through 4 milk jugs and stops in the 5th. expands to a size just smaller than a dime.
9mm 115 gr. JHP at 1180fps goes through 2 milk jugs, stops in the third, and expands to a size of a penny.
.45 185 gr. JHP at 950 fps goes through 3 milk jugs, stops in the fourth , and expands to the size slightly larger than a nickel.

What does all this mean? I dont know but wouldn't want to get hit by any of them including a .380 as that smaller bullet seems like an ice pick, not too big of a hole but it goes does penetrate.

Also after talking to a paramedic yesterday about some things he has seen, shot placement is everything and it doesn't matter if it is a .22 or a .45

[JFootin]

My completely unscientific comment is this based on the following redneck ballistics.

The faster and more streamlined the bullet, the farther it goes but one must also consider the mass of the round and Newtons law of motion. I make this comment based on my following findings:

.380 90 gr. JHP at 990 fps goes through 4 milk jugs and stops in the 5th. expands to a size just smaller than a dime.
9mm 115 gr. JHP at 1180fps goes through 2 milk jugs, stops in the third, and expands to a size of a penny.
.45 185 gr. JHP at 950 fps goes through 3 milk jugs, stops in the fourth , and expands to the size slightly larger than a nickel.

What does all this mean? I dont know but wouldn't want to get hit by any of them including a .380 as that smaller bullet seems like an ice pick, not too big of a hole but it goes does penetrate.

Also after talking to a paramedic yesterday about some things he has seen, shot placement is everything and it doesn't matter if it is a .22 or a .45

Wait a minute. An ice pick? The .380 bullet is the same diameter as the 9mm. Not as much mass. Doesn't expand quite as large. But how does it go that much further? Are these results from your own testing? I guess the expansion, even in very small increments, makes a big difference. Makes a good case for FMJ loads in small calibers, doesn't it?

[TheTman]

I just dropped a .45 cal cartridge, and it hit the ground before I could finish saying one-thousand. It hit aproximately at one-thou... I'd guess around .5 to .75 seconds. Therefore a 230 gr. traveling at 850 FPS, shot parralel to the ground is going to hit the ground somewhere around 500-700 feet or so. That's about the best I can figure it.

[yqtszhj]

Wait a minute. An ice pick? The .380 bullet is the same diameter as the 9mm. Not as much mass. Doesn't expand quite as large. But how does it go that much further? Are these results from your own testing? I guess the expansion, even in very small increments, makes a big difference. Makes a good case for FMJ loads in small calibers, doesn't it?

Yep, I did this "redneck" testing at my local rural outdoor range. The only thing I can figure is that the .380 had less mass thus expanded less (less resistance) so the velocity let if get farther. Just a wild guess since this is unscientific. My goal was just to check out the expansion of each round but was quite suprised at how much farther the .380 round went. I got what I figured from the .45 and 9mm but the .380 results "blew me away."

I'm not suggesting anything here just posting my results.

[wyntrout]

My completely unscientific comment is this based on the following redneck ballistics.

The faster and more streamlined the bullet, the farther it goes but one must also consider the mass of the round and Newtons law of motion. I make this comment based on my following findings:

.380 90 gr. JHP at 990 fps goes through 4 milk jugs and stops in the 5th. expands to a size just smaller than a dime.
9mm 115 gr. JHP at 1180fps goes through 2 milk jugs, stops in the third, and expands to a size of a penny.
.45 185 gr. JHP at 950 fps goes through 3 milk jugs, stops in the fourth , and expands to the size slightly larger than a nickel.

What does all this mean? I dont know but wouldn't want to get hit by any of them including a .380 as that smaller bullet seems like an ice pick, not too big of a hole but it goes does penetrate.

Also after talking to a paramedic yesterday about some things he has seen, shot placement is everything and it doesn't matter if it is a .22 or a .45

There are a lot of factors to consider there. If the bullets were all similar, ie., Gold Dots of the same construction, bonded and all, then the extra 200fps of the 9mm causes it to upset sooner and be slowed more quickly than the .380. All of this stuff is taken into consideration when designing these defensive loads.

The .45 is larger and heavier, so the differences are larger and addressed by the designers to perform as desired.

I haven't done penetration tests or chronographed any rounds personally, but all of the data is available on the 'Net with a few keystrokes. There are plenty of "Bubba tests", and more professional ones comprised of police and shooting magazines reporters and columnists, as well as factory testing. I've seen the JHPs penetrate barriers like windshields and punch through the dummy's head, where FMJ's were deflected! There are full tests with angled windshields and other barriers... and of course, car doors.

This video at Kiesler Police Supply covers a lot of popular duty ammo:

http://www.kiesler.com/videodetail.aspx?id=1534

It's lengthy and gets into rifle ammo as well.

I guess that's a scenario that might pop up if you're out walking or near a street and become a target of opportunity for some gang-bangers looking for a handy target. A lot of those happen in the wee hours of the morning when the pickin's are slim, so I try to avoid that stupidity, since I no longer have a dog to walk.

The testing I've done is for function in my pistols and to document the flash brightness when fired from my pistols. A lot of the defense ammo boasts low-flash powder and/or designed for Short Barrel use... getting the desired performance by using faster burning powder with lower flash properties.

This is how I chose the Speer Gold Dot Short-Barrel version. I didn't notice a difference in the 9mm variations. I'm still using +P 124-gr GDs by Double Tap, which were pretty BRIGHT. I'm putting those in my home defense K9 and using the +P 124-gr GD SB in my PM9 for carry.

I COULD see a big difference in the 230-gr Gold Dots, though. The SB variants had a shallower, but wider bottom of the cavity. The SB's were about 1/10 inch shallower. Obviously, these SB's were designed to perform out of shorter barrels and give about the same penetration and expansion with less flash. It's hard to discern the flash difference, but I guess it's there. I didn't notice that much difference between the 3, 4, or 5-inch barrels, but it was certainly less than the FMJ's by several different manufacturers.

Wynn:) :blah::typing:

[rwblue01]

OP, assuming you are talking about factory ammo 115gr FMJ for the 9mm and 230gr FMJ for the 45ACP and assuming both guns were sighted in for 25 yards, the 45ACP will hit the ground closer to the shooter.

Basically, the 9mm travels faster (which equals farther) before gravity takes its effects on it.

But, if you were shooting in a rock quarry and the area behind the target was flat rock, all bets are off because the 45ACP being heavier may bounce farther than the 9mm.

[rwblue01]

Calculating the maximum ordinate....

I remember trying to calculate it for my .38 reloads once. Didn't do too well. My Security-Six testing in fallow bean fields told me that it was about 400 yards when the barrel was held about 25-30 degrees up. It was fun lobbing the dewc slugs at groups of birds like a mortar round when the testing was over.

Hatcher implies that these United States fought two World Wars with the "wrong ammo", whereby: Pre-WWI we had the 150g spitzer, which proved to be accurate, but was totally outclassed by the German 8mm ammo in WWI. During the War to end all Wars, we borrowed the boat tail design from the Swiss, and finally after some (years of) testing, came up with the best boat tail angle and the famous 174g cupro-nickel bullet that shot really well, and carried well better than any ammo anyone else had at the time. The trouble was, the war was over at that point, by about 8 years. We did manage to squeak out victory, despite the ammo limitations.

After the war, surplus ammo was sold to clubs, and also used for general training at Army bases. This presented a problem, since the rotation of the ammo into surplus status eventually showed that the new bullets flew so well, that they far exceeded the safety zones beyond the target points at existing ranges. US Army Ordnance (the flaming bomb guys), decided to make up some 152g spitzers again, out of gilding metal, and they dyed them with a solution (tin?) that made them resemble the cupro-nickel bullets of the old days.

Fast forward a few more years, to WWII. The doughboys liked shooting (and carrying) the 152g M2 ball much better than the 174g M1 ball. So thats what they did. As Hatcher put it - all the old machine gunners and snipers of WWI were gone... and there was no collective memory of the distance limitations that the flat base lighter bullet had.

So, history had gone full circle, another World War, and we again had the wrong ammo to get the job done best. Interesting lesson to be learned there, no?

Hatcher was wrong with the exception of North Africa the distances of engagement were not that long. Several people have suggested that the M1 Carbine should have been the prefered gun in WWII. It was light weight, could carry more ammo, quicker on target, it has the power or the 357mag at 100 yards, .....

I will say one more thing. The M1 Garand would have been better if the rifle and ammo had been redesigned to be more like an M16A4 with M855. Giving penetration and fragmentation.

[CJB]

It was WWI he was talking about - with the distances of engagement. As far as I recall, Hatcher didn't comment on the WWII engagement specifics, except to infer that the 174g boat tail would have done a better job of things. There's more to winning wars than the maximum ordinate of a service rifle, or (more specifically) a machine gun. Range counts more on the latter, and Hatcher was "Mr. Machine Gun/Machine Rifle" up until the end of WWII.

The M1 Garand rifle only had to compete with what the enemy had, and things do progress (or regress as the case sometimes is) with time.

[getsome]

There was a Myth Busters episode where they did the test using a .45 ACP in a stationary rest 4 feet off the ground and an electronic device to drop the same 230 gn bullet from the same height of the muzzle at the exact moment the gun was fired....They did the test in a huge mile long old aitrcraft hanger and rolled out white paper so they could see where the fired shot hit the ground and placed a high speed camera at that point conected back to a camera of the dropped bullet and sure enough the dropped and fired bullet hit the ground within milli seconds of each other...Before the test I said there is no way that will happen but it sure did...Gravity is gravity...Boy was I wrong...

[ltxi]

There's a lot of ballistic drop information on Federal/Speer/etc's websites for any of their loads at any sane, or even less than sane, range. But....as it was explained first to me as a child....make sure of your back stop. A .22lr round can travel a mile.

[MERCTECH]

Well it all started because of a bad dog, we were talking about how to defend against a dog attack when I said I would just shoot the dog. Some people get affended when talking about killing an animal. Like the guy I was talking to, he's a dog person and would never kill a dog. He thinks he would be able to thwart off the dog with his fists and everything will be ok. Well I had seen the aftermath of a dog attack and it wasnt pretty, and I would not take that chance sorry its just a dog. Not like Im the greatest shot or anything but my thought is if a dog came to attack me I would shoot at him and probably miss but the loud bang would scare him off. So that started another talk about the missed shot and how far would it travel. Granted it probably wouldnt be a level shot being a dog but it would be a hard shot to make when a dog is as fast and mobile as they are. See what happens when a couple of guys drink a few beers together and bs. Its also funny to see how many think there superman with a beer buzz. And by the way jocko you were right I didnt mean to start this bullet distance debate. You have to admit it got interesting with all the info that popped up. lol

[yqtszhj]

If they feel so bad about shooting a dog ask them what if it was their kid? Here's an idea, after taking care of the dog find some folks from the part of the world where they eat dogs and the meat wont go to waste. That should make them feel better.

What makes me think of that is a funny story. We had this strange couple for neighbors years ago. She was a cajun dog lover from Baton Rouge and he was from Michigan. We were talking about different cultures and the husband mentioned that some cultures eat dog. She got highly upset about that started telling him that dogs were pets, people that would eat dog are terrable, and she would never have anything to do with a person like that.

Well, he unwisely said "Well where I'm from we keep crawfish as pets when we're kids and WE WOULD NEVER EAT A CRAWFISH!" BOOM! That set her cajun temper off and they had an arguement right there in the living room and she didn't talk to anyone for the next 3 days. Now that was FUNNY!!!!!!