9mm Carbine? [Archive] - KahrTalk Forums

jmk1138

08-19-2011, 02:47 PM

I'm mainly looking for rationalizations to make a purchase, but go ahead and tell me what you think anyway.

I carry my pm9 daily (won't get into all the reasons why I chose it), and I've got a CZ 9mm in the nightstand. I looked at full-size 9mm mainly to have the ability to use the same SD rounds (which works well).

So, why not a 9mm carbine, too? Also, you can get the bulk ball ammo at pretty good prices and be pretty well stockpiled in the event that ... you know, whatever. It's not great, but has got to be slightly better coming out of a longer barrel, right? Anyone know the answer? Other thoughts?

mr surveyor

08-19-2011, 02:59 PM

I went through that "phase" myself for several years....2-3 years with a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 then another 2-3 years with a Beretta storm CX4. Both were excellent shooters....fun and reliable. After a lot of careful thought, I found no real practical "need". I find much more comfort with my 12 ga Mossy shorty and Marlin 336:)

Bawanna

08-19-2011, 03:14 PM

You dont need to be institutionalized, (oh I was thinking of Dietrich) Start over.

Don't take much rationalization to shop for a new gun. Your thinking is sound. The ammo interchangeability is a plus. Of the two Mr. Surveyor mentioned I'd look at the Beretta.

The shotgun mentioned of course is a fine too to have on hand but could work well in concert with a carbine too.

Consider yourself rationalized, go forth and seek it. It's lunch time for me, I'll help ya hunt.

mr surveyor

08-19-2011, 03:25 PM

I also had a bit of experience with a Marlin Camp Carbine.... my old KT Sub2K would out shoot it every time. I miss the Sub2K a lot more than I do the Beretta.

jmk1138

08-19-2011, 03:57 PM

Oh, I've got a shotgun, too.

getsome

08-19-2011, 04:04 PM

I've had a hankerin for a Ruger .44 mag Dear Stalker carbine for a while now...I don't think they make them anymore and I can't remember ever having seen one but I like the idea of a rifle that shoots pistol ammo but in reality my trusty old Marlin 336 30-30 will do anything I could ask of a medium range rifle but it's still fun to dream....

ripley16

08-19-2011, 04:10 PM

So, why not a 9mm carbine, too?

Why not? Just because! I went with the Beretta 92fs and CX4 Storm route so they would share not only the same round but also the same magazines. These two together are an absolute blast. The carbine came with a cheap red dot scope, but it makes the gun even more fun to shoot.

Cheap, reliable fun. Oh yeah... why not!

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/NewStorm008.jpg

Barth

08-19-2011, 05:01 PM

There are several AR15 style 9MMs available -
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6Ya37qtJqsA/TCEX6OQ6QxI/AAAAAAAAAFg/SsPRuEwCGZ4/s1600/Colt+AR-15+Factory+9mm.jpg
I think there is a civilian H&K MP5 too, But you're talking $$$.
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/smg14/hk_mp5n.jpg

mr surveyor

08-19-2011, 05:01 PM

this was the one I traded last year

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b345/cowpi/CX4StormDSC02021.jpg

it was "fun", but I'd rather have a Marlin in .357 mag

O'Dell

08-19-2011, 05:32 PM

I had a 9mm Hi-Point carbine stolen earlier this year. I had owned it several years and had never had a problem with it. Since my new handgun collection is about where I want it, and most of my pistols are 45, I've been thinking about this one. It's a 45 HI-Point carbine with a folding forward hand grip, and T can get it locally for $300. A decent red-dot and I would be good to go.

Alfonse

08-19-2011, 06:25 PM

For home defense, a shotgun blast will render you far less able to hear any lingering bad guys than a 9 mm carbine. Plus, the carbines are just plain fun!

I like the Hi-Point, and you can't beat it for the price. But I have an older Ruger carbine with a dot sight myself and a pistol that shares magazines with it.

Barth

08-19-2011, 06:41 PM

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/47403/2070811120099014902S600x600Q85.jpg

ltxi

08-19-2011, 06:47 PM

Although you couldn't give me one of their handguns, those Hi-Point carbines were and maybe still are insanely nice and reliable guns for the price.

ltxi

08-19-2011, 07:00 PM

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/47403/2070811120099014902S600x600Q85.jpg

Uh oh.....yours? And just when I'd sworn off any more NFA arms. Ok, I swore off any more of those a few years ago, but I'm hopefully within a year of final (third time) retirement and am going to need something more and expensive to occupy my time.

Rainman48314

08-19-2011, 07:15 PM

Barth

08-19-2011, 07:29 PM

Uh oh.....yours? And just when I'd sworn off any more NFA arms. Ok, I swore off any more of those a few years ago, but I'm hopefully within a year of final (third time) retirement and am going to need something more and expensive to occupy my time.

LOL! - no not mine...
I do have a pistol grip Mossberg 500 12 gauge, P220/45 and a Bianchi class III-A vest.
Always wanted an assault rifle and suppressors.
But I rent, don't have a safe and just can't justify it - yet...

mr surveyor

08-19-2011, 07:55 PM

If I were to buy another rimless round pistol caliber carbine, it would most likely be another Sub2K. The portability is a real plus, if you choose to not mount a bunch of "stuff" on it. I don't remember who made the steel blade front sight for them for a short time, but I do remember kicking myself in the butt for not getting one for my carbine. The "hi-viz" plastic front blades actually work fine, and I don't remember anyone having problems. One thing to be leery of is aluminum or steel cased ammunition. Due to the blowback action, and other design characteristics, non-brass rounds just will not properly cycle and could result in some serious malfunctions. I never worried anyway since I figured such cheap crap ammunition (particularly steel cased) was for use in cheap crap commie firearms anyway.

As for the CX4, I think Beretta was (almost) top shelf with the design. Their problems were with a plastic buffer that seemed to be a weak point, as well as the plastic trigger with no adjustment. Both of those problems were remedied by a very enterprising gentleman that participated on the Beretta forum, and his products were actually picked up by Brownells for market. He let the members of the Beretta forum beta test his designs and they had rave reviews. The fact that the CX4 is 100% ambidextrious, as well as capable of "hybrid dexterity" is also a plus. The price tag, in my opinion just ain't worth the investment.

more later... maybe

nmkahrshooter

08-19-2011, 08:04 PM

I would check a Highpoint! Nice shooter and not expensive, decent shooter too!:)

JFootin

08-19-2011, 09:36 PM

For us lefties, Beretta has the Cx4 Storm (http://www.berettausa.com/products/cx4-storm/) in 9 mm, also in .40 S&W and 45 ACP. Everything, including ejection, extraction and all control levers can be reversed. I want one! The 9 mm ones can be had either to accept 92 Series mags or Px4 Storm mags if you want to match it up with a duty or carry pistol.

gb6491

08-20-2011, 12:47 AM

I like the Sub2000: never misses a beat and I can lock it in the center console of my soft top Jeep.
http://i53.tinypic.com/1zm12j5.jpg
Regards,
Greg

Barth

08-20-2011, 04:01 AM

I understand matching ammo.
But for home defense it's just hard to beat a 12 gauge pump shotgun.
I got my Mossberg 500 for $249.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2i22xs8.jpg

apdturbo

08-20-2011, 06:41 AM

keltec sub 2000 would be my pick, but then again i do a lot of hiking/camping so the fact it folds up for a more compact package.

ripley16

08-20-2011, 08:16 AM

It isn't 9mm but I do one day want to get a AR57 upper installed on a Colt AR15 to make a mate for my FNH57 pistol. The round is a bunch of fun to shoot and is very suitable for home defense. I shoot with a fellow recently retired from the Secret Service who really likes the 5.7 round. My only complaint with it is that I have to drive further to a range that will allow the use of the round (my local indoor range banned it :( ).

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb249/Kymas23/IMG_3969.jpg
pic borrowed from Photobucket

JFootin

08-20-2011, 08:23 AM

Yeah. The SUB-2000 is a winner. It is so inexpensive, and you can get those Glock 32 round mags for it. :33:

CJB

08-20-2011, 08:33 AM

I understand matching ammo.
But for home defense it's just hard to beat a 12 gauge pump shotgun.
I got my Mossberg 500 for $249.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2i22xs8.jpg

Unless its one of these :)
http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/images/KSG_3357web.jpg
Mines paid in full... just waiting for the release date. Should be #12. I see they've released some to the gun-magazines for write-ups. Means they oughta be be getting close. Somehow I think Melissa is gonna want one of these lil'darlin's.....

JFootin

08-20-2011, 08:36 AM

What is that? A gas operated semi-auto shotgun? I like!
Edit: No. I see it is a manual slide loaded one. Why the twin tubes? Is it high capacity?

JFootin

08-20-2011, 08:42 AM

PREVIEW: Kel-Tec Shotgun (KSG)

01-04-2011
The time for secrecy is nearing its end. This SHOT Show, Kel-Tec will be revealing its next ground-breaking product: the KSG (Kel-Tec Shotgun).

The KSG is our first entry into the shotgun market. The size, shape and design are similar to the currently available Kel-Tec RFB rifle, but the KSG ejects downward, instead of forward. The KSG weighs 6.9lbs and is as compact as legally possible with a 26.1" overall length and an 18.5" cylinder bore barrel. Even with this compact size, the internal dual tube magazines hold an impressive 14 rounds of 12 gage 2-3/4" rounds (7 per tube). The simple and reliable pump action feeds from either the left or right tube. The feed side is manually selected by a lever located behind the trigger guard. The lever can be positioned in the center detent in order to easily clear the chamber without feeding another round from either magazine. A cross bolt style safety blocks the sear, and the pump release lever is located in front of the trigger guard.

The pump includes an under Picatinny rail for the mounting of a forward grip, or a light or laser. The included top Picatinny sight rail will accept many types of optics or iron sights. Forward and rear sling loops are built in, and a basic sling is included. The soft rubber butt pad helps to tame recoil.

MSRP has not been officially been set, but we are looking at the $800.00 range.

jeepster09

08-20-2011, 08:42 AM

There is always the little 12's to play with....:=]

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/super_shorty_870-1.jpg

yqtszhj

08-20-2011, 11:00 AM

OK. that's enough now. I'm getting the 9mm carbine itch. The Beretta looks good but the Keltec and Hi-Point price cant be beat.

mr surveyor

08-20-2011, 11:22 AM

OK. that's enough now. I'm getting the 9mm carbine itch. The Beretta looks good but the Keltec and Hi-Point price cant be beat.

well.... you could always look around a bit and find a hi-point fitted with one of their cheesy knock-off versions of the Beretta stock;)

ripley16

08-20-2011, 11:23 AM

OK. that's enough now. I'm getting the 9mm carbine itch. The Beretta looks good but the Keltec and Hi-Point price cant be beat.

I went for a used Beretta CX4 Storm, the one pictured early in the thread in post #7. They are pretty robust, so long as you don't abuse the $8 buffer, so a used carbine in good condition may be a option. I paid $450 or mine and the guy threw in about 400 rounds of ammo and a red dot scope. Deals are out there.

The Beretta 92/M9 can be had for good prices too. The Inox Vertec shown was also used, came with CT laser grips for only $550. $1000 total for a top quality pistol & carbine set sounded good to me.

The Vertec is a great pistol by the way. Much more comfortable for my hand than a regular 92fs.

JFootin

08-20-2011, 11:35 AM

I went for a used Beretta CX4 Storm, the one pictured early in the thread. They are pretty robust, so long as you don't abuse the $8 buffer, so a used carbine in good condition may be a option. I paid $450 or mine and the guy threw in about 400 rounds of ammo and a red dot scope. Deals are out there.

The Beretta 92/M9 can be had for good prices too. The Inox Vertec shown was also used, came with CT laser grips for only $550. $1000 total for a top quality pistol & carbine set sounded good to me.

The Vertec is a great pistol by the way. Much more comfortable for my hand than a regular 92fs.

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/ermey-weapon.jpg

O'Dell

08-20-2011, 12:17 PM

Well, this thread got me off my duff and into action. I called Adventure Outdoors, today and they have one 45 Carbine with the foregrip in stock for $299. I'm picking it up Tuesday.

ripley16

08-20-2011, 12:51 PM

Forgot a picture

See post #7, a picture of my Beretta pair, CX4 Storm and 92fs Vertec INOX

JFootin

08-20-2011, 03:26 PM

See post #7, a picture of my Beretta pair, CX4 Storm and 92fs Vertec INOX

Oh, sorry. I wondered why you referred to the 'pictured' 92fs. Duh! :crazy: I didn't go back and look at earlier posts. :o

I looked at the Beretta website and saw the INOX, but I couldn't find the Vertec. You said it is easier to grip. What is the difference?

TheTman

08-20-2011, 03:41 PM

ripley16

08-20-2011, 03:48 PM

I looked at the Beretta website and saw the INOX, but I couldn't find the Vertec. You said it is easier to grip. What is the difference?

The Vertec is out of production. The difference is that it has a straight backstrap instead of the usual bulbous palm swell, and ultra thin grip panels that lessen the overall grip size. Some people feel the regular 92fs grip is too large and the Vertec was Beretta's answer. It also has a short rail for attaching goodies. Otherwise it is a normal everyday Beretta 92fs.

mr surveyor

08-20-2011, 04:10 PM

I used to want one of those Marlin camp carbines, but someone said they weren't very accurate? Anyway not so much intersted in those 9mm so much any more as a lever action .38/357 for camping and varmits and stuff. Not sure who even makes one anymore besides Rossi, and not sure I want a Rossi. Around here if you buy a Rossi, you're stuck with it as there isn't much resale value in them.

just my personal opinion, but the Marlin 1894c and the Henry "Big Boy" are probably the best quality in "off the shelf" lever guns in 38/357 (and above). I don't care for the tube feed of the Henry, but I love the smooth action. The Marlin would be first on my list. Both are in the $700 range, but both are of sufficient quality in materials and workmanship that they would last for a couple of generations of heavy use

JFootin

08-20-2011, 04:15 PM

The Vertec is out of production. The difference is that it has a straight backstrap instead of the usual bulbous palm swell, and ultra thin grip panels that lessen the overall grip size. Some people feel the regular 92fs grip is too large and the Vertec was Beretta's answer. It also has a short rail for attaching goodies. Otherwise it is a normal everyday Beretta 92fs.

Yeah. I have very small hands. To illustrate, my CM9 without any grip enhancement is a perfect fit! :p I have bought more than one gun in the past that I ended up getting rid of because the grips were not comfortable for me. And Beretta seems to be making their new guns even more bulbous (re: Px4 Storm)! Most of the European gun makers seem to like big, fat heavy guns (HK, Sig, FN). It's too bad they discontinued the Vertec.

gb6491

08-20-2011, 04:22 PM

I used to want one of those Marlin camp carbines, but someone said they weren't very accurate? Anyway not so much intersted in those 9mm so much any more as a lever action .38/357 for camping and varmits and stuff. Not sure who even makes one anymore besides Rossi, and not sure I want a Rossi. Around here if you buy a Rossi, you're stuck with it as there isn't much resale value in them.
You can get the Marlin 1894 in .357 (#1894CB357-20).
If your not dead set on a lever gun, Ruger makes a bolt gun in .357; their Model 77/357 (#K77/357-RSP).
FWIW, I had a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt and an older Rossi 1892 clone in the same caliber. They are both decent rifles, but I ended up selling the Marlin as I liked the Rossi better. The guy I sold the Marlin to loves it and I'm happy with the Rossi.
Regards,
Greg

TheTman

08-20-2011, 04:59 PM

They are both decent rifles, but I ended up selling the Marlin as I liked the Rossi better. The guy I sold the Marlin to loves it and I'm happy with the Rossi.
Regards,
Greg
I suppose if I look at it from an investment point of view the Marlin would be the way to go, but the Rossi had a 16 inch model with the big loop lever that I really liked and was much less expensive than the Marlin. It kinda reminded me a little of Chuck Connors' Rifleman's rifle. :) What was it about the Rossi that made you like it better, smoother action, more accurate? just curious. Not so much concerned about resale value, as most things will go to my son someday hopefully, if we can keep the Govt. under control that long.

yqtszhj

08-20-2011, 05:32 PM

I went for a used Beretta CX4 Storm, the one pictured early in the thread in post #7. They are pretty robust, so long as you don't abuse the $8 buffer, so a used carbine in good condition may be a option. I paid $450 or mine and the guy threw in about 400 rounds of ammo and a red dot scope. Deals are out there.

The Beretta 92/M9 can be had for good prices too. The Inox Vertec shown was also used, came with CT laser grips for only $550. $1000 total for a top quality pistol & carbine set sounded good to me.

The Vertec is a great pistol by the way. Much more comfortable for my hand than a regular 92fs.

Yeah, I have the 92FS Inox with stainless controls. Bought that about a year ago. It's tha made in Italy version. I pimped it out with some wood grips when thay had them on sale but I think it makes it a little thicker in the grip. Funny thing is when I shoot that thing at 7, 10, or 25 yards i'm always 3-4 inches left of target. I thought the gun was shooting left until I let my oldest son shoot it and he put the first 3 rounds in the bullseye. After that I knew the problem, ME :eek:.

I have shot the .40 Beretta before at the range. A guy that goes there had one. It shot really well. Never thought much about it because I don't have any .40 cal's. Now I read there is a 9mm and now I'm like Hmmm......

gb6491

08-20-2011, 08:55 PM

I suppose if I look at it from an investment point of view the Marlin would be the way to go, but the Rossi had a 16 inch model with the big loop lever that I really liked and was much less expensive than the Marlin. It kinda reminded me a little of Chuck Connors' Rifleman's rifle. :) What was it about the Rossi that made you like it better, smoother action, more accurate? just curious. Not so much concerned about resale value, as most things will go to my son someday hopefully, if we can keep the Govt. under control that long.
I like how the Rossi handles. I also like how the 1892 ejects brass on a nostalgic level. Accuracy seemed about a draw to me. If you go with an 1894 Marlin be sure to look up "Marlin Jam" on the internet before using it.

I like short barreled short barreled lever guns as well; mine being a 16.25" Marlin 336 RC in .35 Remington.

Regards,
Greg

Bawanna

08-20-2011, 09:03 PM

I have the Puma in 45 Colt. The shorter octagon barrel. It shoots great and I live case hardened stuff. I put a Marble tang sight on it which works pretty well too. I've been looking at the Rossi Ranch hand but have not seen one in person. It doesn't look like the most convenient to shoot but the cool factor is off the charts.

CJB

08-20-2011, 09:09 PM

I paid $600 for the KSG, out the door, as a pre-order.

Pricey... but I see them goin' the way of the StreetSweeper - being banned.

TheTman

08-20-2011, 09:40 PM

gb6491

08-20-2011, 09:59 PM

Thanks for the info Gary! This is the Rossi I'm looking at, 16 inch barrel, not octagon, but you can't always get everything you want. I think it's cool looking, wonder how it shoots? I like that it's short and handy. Kinda like me, LOL
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/RossiR92.jpg
Nice:) One thing, it looks like that rifle has a safety mounted on the bolt. It works, but many don't like it. If you don't, it can be modified or removed and replaced. Here are some articles that address that:
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/rossi.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/SteveYoung.htm

Steve Young now offers a "peep" sight as a replacement for the safety. It almost makes me wish my Rossi had that safety on it.
http://store.stevesgunz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19_20_27&products_id=5

Regards,
Greg

Bawanna

08-20-2011, 10:27 PM

My Puma has that safety on the bolt as well. I of course don't like it but its not very noticeable and doesn't bug me too bad. I never use it either.

TheTman

08-21-2011, 01:37 AM

That little Rossi must be one popular rifle in the 16" version. Most everyone is sold out, not that I was in a big hurry to get one. Need to get the .357 pistol first, thinking about another Dan Wesson, only I want the model 15-2 this time. Found a couple of the pistol packs even. Those were pretty cool, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10" barrels for one gun. If I could find one with a 4" barrel I'd be happy, have a 6" barrel already. I figure those would probably be the only ones I'd use anyway. Hard to decide between that and an older S&W 686.

Barth

08-21-2011, 04:59 AM

Need to get the .357 pistol first, thinking about another Dan Wesson, only I want the model 15-2 this time. Hard to decide between that and an older S&W 686.

I vote for a Smith -
http://i2.listal.com/image/1649977/500full.jpg

CJB

08-21-2011, 09:17 AM

Thanks for the info Gary! This is the Rossi I'm looking at, 16 inch barrel, not octagon, but you can't always get everything you want. I think it's cool looking, wonder how it shoots? I like that it's short and handy. Kinda like me, LOL
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/RossiR92.jpg

With a rifle like that - you can fire 12 shots with 11 pulls of the lever, while walking down mainstreet, then reload while gleering at the camera, all without breaking stride!~

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gz3zHUsQWKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3zHUsQWKE&playnext=1&list=PLE1195A0A1D8CADAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz3zHUsQWKE&playnext=1&list=PLE1195A0A1D8CADAA)

Barth

08-21-2011, 09:26 AM

With a rifle like that - you can fire 12 shots with 11 pulls of the lever, while walking down mainstreet, then reload while gleering at the camera, all without breaking stride!~

One of my favorite TV shows when I was a kid...
http://valdefierro.com/rifleman241.jpg
In high school had a Ruger 10/22 carbine wth a pistol grip.
Used to target practice rapid fire from the hip.
A teenage girl saw me blaze into a human silhouette across a ravine,
empty shells ringing off the rocks,
and called out “It’s the Rifleman!”

Oh good times….

TheTman

08-21-2011, 11:23 AM

I'll tell you if you ever had a Dan Wesson, it's one the most accurate revolvers you can get. In it's hey dey it dominated the other brands in competitions. Something about that barrel system made it inherantly accurate. You can't go wrong with a Smith either, but you can find some really good buys on Dan Wessons, while those 686's are going at a premium, especially the pre-lock ones. Been looking the last couple weeks at prices. See 686's going for 600 and up, while I've seen the Dan Wesson pistol packs for 800, individual guns from 350.00. I have an email into a guy that's trying to sell a pistol pack where the pistol has some bad scratches and no one's bid on it, told him if it doesn't sell let me know the bottom dollar he'd take and maybe we could do business. Would definately want to get it refinished and thouse gouges smoothed out. Characte marks are one thing, but those gouges really ugly up the gun.

ripley16

08-21-2011, 11:59 AM

Since we've ventured away from the 9mm point... I'd forgotten I had one more handgun/carbine combo sitting in the safe. My trusty Ruger Blackhawk .30 carbine and it's evil cousin my '44 Underwood M1 Carbine. Both a blast to shoot... the revolver quite literally.

TheTman

08-21-2011, 12:06 PM

Dang, did I hijack another thread, I'm terrible about that. My apologies.

Barth, I used to do the same thing with my .22 autos, fire from the hip and walk the little puffs of dirt to the target. Didn't yell "I'ts the Rifleman," LOL, but was cool to see how close you get get to your target with that first shot from the hip. Did the same with my .22 semi auto pistols, wanted to be one those guys that could point shoot a clay bird and hit it on the first shot from 10 -15 yards with the pistol. Never did get that down, but sure had a lot of fun. I think I could have hit a B-27 target in the 7 ring or better doing that. That was many years ago, and no longer am close to that proficient these days. I do think from practising with my laser that I'd have no trouble hitting an intruder from the hip across the room in my apt.