Porting

[beatlesfan]

Ever since I saw a picture on here of a ported T9 I've been daydreaming about sending mine to magna-port once I get it. I forget who's Kahr it is, but it was beautiful. Plus, there's actual benefits to porting. I was thinking though, at night in a dark place where I might have to defend myself, would the porting show more flash? Possibly ruining ones night vision?

What are your thoughts? Anyone have experience with this?

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[jocko]

Have u ever fired your guns at night, expecially revolvers or short barrel semi's like kahrs and other. Your not gonna get away from the barrel flash ported or not. It won't effect ur vision. Evidently you have not done any night firing with the guns you have now or u would know. I have shot ported guns for over 30 years, My two kahrs K9 and PM9 are mag na ported ., as is my G19. For me I love um, pleasant to shoot, second shot for me much faster, if there is any more flash coming out of the gun, I don';t notice it. I have over 32K rounds through my ported PM9 for sure I don't notice any daytime differences. As far as nighttime shooting, I have done very little but I have done it and ur gonna see flash with a ported gun AND UR GOONA SEE FLASH WITH AN UNPORTED GUN. Is there more with a ported gun???Probably but if it is more noticeable, I don't notice it. If ur concentraed on that front sight (night sight) the flash from any gun at night is less noticdeable than if yuour actually looking for the flash over looking for the TARGET.
Port that sucker, u will love it...

PM sent..

I think it is wyn on this forum that has taken some excellent p;hotos indooors of muzzleflash with his kahr 45, not ported. The flash is there my friend, ur just not gonna eliminate that. Think of it in another way.If you see flash, whqatdo u think the BG is seeing????

[Barth]

Ever since I saw a picture on here of a ported T9 I've been daydreaming about sending mine to magna-port once I get it. I forget who's Kahr it is, but it was beautiful. Plus, there's actual benefits to porting. I was thinking though, at night in a dark place where I might have to defend myself, would the porting show more flash? Possibly ruining ones night vision?

What are your thoughts? Anyone have experience with this?

Sent from Tapatalk

I agree there's no night vision issue.
I was trained to hold the gun close to my body for house clearing.
Canting the slide away from my body for ported guns.

[wyntrout]

Flash can be your friend... Silence of the Lambs comes to mind... it could be your only illumination.

I shoot in a range and there is dim light in some areas and the flash is not a problem. The only way I really see the extent of the flash is with my camera taking a video and then freezing the frame for a still picture. That can be pretty impressive. I have posted many pictures here on this forum of "flash testing" and comparing low flash versus normal FMJ flashes, which can be pretty bright. That's why I use the low flash Short Barrel versions of Speer Gold Dots in my PM45 and two 9mm Kahrs.

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

PM45 shooting and flashes here:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1718&highlight=flash

And here: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7147&highlight=flash&page=2


P380 here:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1808&highlight=flash





Wynn:)

[Bill K]

I agree there's no night vision issue.
I was trained to hold the gun close to my body for house clearing.
Canting the slide away from my body for ported guns.

"Canting the slide away from my body for ported guns"...

This makes a lot of sense to me. You could otherwise take yourself out of the action on the first shot.

Thanks for the info.

[wyntrout]

Just some various flashes:

PM45 firing Winchester 100 pack 230-gr FMJ:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/5787482485_f5126af09a_m.jpg
PM45 firing 230-gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3518/5787519761_53495dd982_m.jpg
Testing 230-grain Bonded Remington Golden Saber Brass-JHP defensive ammo in 3-inch barreled Kahr PM45:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2430/5787500669_4ce1e69a8c_m.jpg
S&W 645 firing BONDED Remington 230-gr Brass Jacketed HP:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/RemGS230inSW645-1_1583.jpg
S&W 645 firing Speer 230-gr Gold Dot Short Barrel version:
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/wyntrout/SpeerGDSB230GrIn5inchSW645_1580-1-1.jpg

[wyntrout]

I agree there's no night vision issue.
I was trained to hold the gun close to my body for house clearing.
Canting the slide away from my body for ported guns.

Hey! I've watched enough TV and movies to know that you carry your pistol without a round in the chamber... until you need to emphasize it's loaded... and you extend your weapon into the room before you enter or jump out into the open before looking around!

That's what the TV expert cops and detectives do! I've learned a lot of good tactics that way!

Wynn:)

[jocko]

I always love it when the jack a round in a pump shotgun after having it pointed at the BG first. EFFECTS that is what it is all about Now Diva or ziva or what ever in the hell her name is on NCIS can shoot me any time though

[jeepster09]

This is how you should always carry.....

[wyntrout]

Especially when they do it 2-3 times... lots of empahsis... sometimes you can see live rounds ejected!

I have my semi-auto 12-ga CD Tactical Shotgun loaded... just the magazine, though, with the safety off... so I have to work the bolt once. All of my pistols have rounds in the chamber, so if I need emphasis, I can fire a "warning" shot C.O.M... actually 2-3 such... I want to get their attention! Some BG's might be disappointed that there's no noisy loading the chamber to "warn" them, though... too f###ing bad for them... the hazards with their chosen "trade".

Weather update: Flash rain showers so far with the leading edges of Irene. I gotta run some errands and buy some stuff soon. I dodn't want to be trying to do anything with the Hurricane offshore and high winds/rain, etc. Wifey left me ANOTHER grocery list... just went Tuesday! <sigh> We're supposed to go out to eat tonight... one of our favorites... Longhorn Restaurant. I want to bunker down for Irene's passing. I need to clear the front door project out of the garage so I can put my van back in there and put the braces on the garage door. Mine is flimsy steel... 16" wide with no built-in reinforcement! I bought heavy braces to hook to the door and the floor and wall above the door... much better. We get the wind directly from the hurricanes high side winds on the NW edge of the storm... nothing between us and the coast except 10 to 11 miles... not much help.

I thought I could finish up some window caulking today, but too wet. I guess I'll have to wait until just before the NEXT hurricane! :rolleyes:

Later!:yo:

Wynn:)

[Barth]

Hey! I've watched enough TV and movies to know that you carry your pistol without a round in the chamber... until you need to emphasize it's loaded... and you extend your weapon into the room before you enter or jump out into the open before looking around!

That's what the TV expert cops and detectives do! I've learned a lot of good tactics that way!

Wynn:)

LOL!

Yup Yup,
I like watching people point a single action gun with the hammer down to shoot.
And jumping sideways whipping two pistols with every shot.
Usually firing many more shots than the gun holds.

Notice the empty shells - LOL!
http://rigsamarole.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/maxpayne_movie.jpg

[JFootin]

"Canting the slide away from my body for ported guns"...

This makes a lot of sense to me. You could otherwise take yourself out of the action on the first shot.

Thanks for the info.

If you're holding the gun close to your body and you're canting the slide away from your body, how is your gun not pointed at the floor?

[Barth]

If you're holding the gun close to your body and you're canting the slide away from your body, how is your gun not pointed at the floor?

Can't find an exact picture.
But it this guy would bring up his left hand for defense, point the barrel forward, and tilt (or cant) the slide to the side (like 45 degrees).
You don't want to be disarmed. And you don't want to blow the port gas into yourself.
Gut and groin shooting is very acceptable though!

It's a military/martial arts thingy..
(I'm not sure. But is that an SA with the hammer down? Ops)
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/tactical-home-defense.jpghttp://www.policeone.com/policeone/data/closequarter4.jpg

Update:
Like this -
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Extreme-Close-Quarters-Shooting-VHS-1999/05/!!d6C1D!BGM~$(KGrHqEOKj8Er)dq4lPyBLGl!P0ck!~~_35.J PGhttp://i43.tower.com/images/mm110878136/combative-pistol-jim-grovers-guide-extreme-close-quarters-grover-vhs-cover-art.jpg

[Bawanna]

Sure looks like a hammer down 1911. Wahlberg really let me down again. He should know better but perhaps he's not a gun guy like he portrays?

[Bill K]

If you're holding the gun close to your body and you're canting the slide away from your body, how is your gun not pointed at the floor?

I'm not the original poster of the technique. I might be wrong but I took cant to mean a rotation around the bore access so that the port gas would not blow up into the face from a close in, up high, house clearing pistol position. This is new stuff/info for me and I'm trying to learn.

[Bawanna]

I'm not the original poster of the technique. I might be wrong but I took cant to mean a rotation around the bore access so that the port gas would not blow up into the face from a close in, up high, house clearing pistol position. This is new stuff/info for me and I'm trying to learn.

Bill, you took it exactly correct at least in my understanding. That last photo that Barth posted shows it perfectly. Mostly its your eyes and face to be concerned about. A few burn marks on clothing or even arms etc is not life changing.

[beatlesfan]

You guys are making some really interesting observations here, I appreciate it.

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[jocko]

actually I have not shot alot from the hip, I maybe should practicve like that but I don't but I see no real advantagein tilting a magna ported gun as the ports are on the side of the gun. keeping it more stright seems more logical. I have never blow anything off or away from hip type shooting, although I cannot hit jack sh-t like that, so I tend to pracice the two hand drills at 7 yards and under for I do feel alot more confident in my accuracy, although still poor but good compared to hip shooting. I would bet the best of training that when SHTF scenario happens. most all of this stuff flys right out the window and it's u against the BG and u do what u gotta do to survive, IMO we are not trained navy seals who train 24/7 to kill and stay alive with the finest of everything provided.
We are just normaql John doe's who work 8 to 5 and play on the weekend, with what traiing is normally range type shooting and not actual combat type training. Some might get gun-ho and do it all but 99% are normal working class people who carry for protection and more than likely do most of thier shooting in the standing two hand postion yadda yadda punching holes in paper. Maybe I am putting u al ln the class that I shoot like, no offense if it sounds that way. Situational awareness IMO is #1 in how u protect yourself.We can't train to shoot what is in front of us and guys like the seals and other specialty forces certainly are not traveling by themselves. They have the best of the best in equipment for backup.. I am a better runner than a shooter so for me that is my first exit stragety. Must be my age but I just don't get caught up in all this combat scenario stuff. Carried for 48 years never once even came close to having to draw my weapon.

[Bill K]

Many porting jobs, particularly pistols, are done top ported. Some side-by-side some tandem.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdD6tN3A8J0Ag-ry7sDYtveluqnCWpHsatuBJOhhTRKtF2TxX-8g http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51x5JohwxmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[jeepster09]

I have carried many years also and almost all of my guns have been ported. I LOVE MAGNAPORT and almost all of my guns are ported. I can't imagine getting that close up and personal in a gunfight, not to say it can't happen; but even as a former LEO I never even came close. I would rather have the benefit of porting to the "internet horror stories" of flash back etc.
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0953-1.jpg

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0824.jpg

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0975.jpg

[jeepster09]

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1253.jpg

[jocko]

sure damnnice photos,and I agreewith your post to. course I am bias towards Magna port to.That Sith l;ooks really cool. My Model 60 pre1970 is Magna ported, Why I did it back then was it wasmy first magnaported gun. still have it today..

[rjt123]

sure damnnice photos,and I agreewith your post to. course I am bias towards Magna port to.That Sith l;ooks really cool. My Model 60 pre1970 is Magna ported, Why I did it back then was it wasmy first magnaported gun. still have it today..

"Sith"? Would this Sith do?

4269

[beatlesfan]

Jeepster, that barrel in the 1911 looks very nice. Also, love the porting. You're right of course, my young mind was making the flash issue into something big. I'll get the T9 ported once I get it. I'll be sure to post pics to.

Thanks for helping me decide everyone, I appreciate it!

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[wyntrout]

I can see porting the short-barreled larger calibers, but the full-sized T9 should have plenty of heft to hold down the recoil. I would try it un-ported and get used to it before spending the money.

Wynn:)

[Barth]

Always have been interested in porting.
Resisted in the past because, for my magnum revolvers,
it's sort of irreversible.

With autos, these days there is a new option on the table.
An extended barrel with ports for a non-ported gun.
Mmmmmmm

Now my G27, with a G33/357 barrel, is throwing 125 gr 1300 fps rounds
at near 357 magnum force.
From the 3.5" barrel 20 oz gun that's a flame thrower for sure.
(plus my OEM Glock G33 barrel, with the new nose dive chamber support, isn't working out)
So If I'm getting an additional after market 357 barrel, why not try a ported one?

Storm Lake 4.16" extended, dual port, barrel is on the way.
It's getting the Isonite QPQ finish that takes 30 extra days.
But I'll give a range report when it gets here.

[muggsy]

I learned a long time ago to close both eyes just prior to let off. This precludes the need for eye protection. I've found that I can keep all of my shot on a sheet of 4x8 plywood at five feet using this method. :)

[Ikeo74]

I learned a long time ago to close both eyes just prior to let off. This precludes the need for eye protection. I've found that I can keep all of my shot on a sheet of 4x8 plywood at five feet using this method. :)
Wow! Thats great. Now try to practice until you can master the 4 x 4 sheet of plywood.:bump2:

[Barth]

I learned a long time ago to close both eyes just prior to let off. This precludes the need for eye protection. I've found that I can keep all of my shot on a sheet of 4x8 plywood at five feet using this method. :)

I hadn't thought of that?
Interesting thing to consider.
The dual ports are on top,
so I can cant the gun away from me for close quarters work.
(That's how I was trained to clear a house)

[TriggerMan]

Jeepster, that barrel in the 1911 looks very nice. Also, love the porting. You're right of course, my young mind was making the flash issue into something big. I'll get the T9 ported once I get it. I'll be sure to post pics to.

Thanks for helping me decide everyone, I appreciate it!

Sent from TapatalkIf you search the web and other gun forums, you'll find that those who favor porting a Self Defense Carry weapon are in a clear minority. It solves a problem (muzzle flip and slow second shot) that buying the right gun and/or training more will also solve without the downsides: 1. added cost 2. night vision issues 3. additional noise 4 general cleaning but specifically keeping the front sight clean 5. burns or blinding in a close contact retention scenario.

I MIGHT do a RANGE large caliber wheelgun which I used primarily outdoors. YMMV

[Barth]

If you search the web and other gun forums, you'll find that those who favor porting a Self Defense Carry weapon are in a clear minority. It solves a problem (muzzle flip and slow second shot) that buying the right gun and/or training more will also solve without the downsides: 1. added cost 2. night vision issues 3. additional noise 4 general cleaning but specifically keeping the front sight clean 5. burns or blinding in a close contact retention scenario.

I MIGHT do a RANGE large caliber wheelgun which I used primarily outdoors. YMMV

I always wanted to try one for myself - just because I can.
It's an additional barrel that I can take in and out in seconds.
The night vision and noise issue is highly overrated.
Dealing with hot gas and debris in a close quarter scenario does concern me though.

I'll try it and see if I like it - for the fun.

[Longitude Zero]

Dealing with hot gas and debris in a close quarter scenario does concern me though.

This is the reason that my department, and many others wisely forbid ported weapons. I have asked several folks at the range with ported handguns to fire them in a close combat position with the weapon tucked tightly against their side at the 2 o'clock position. ALL have refused for obviously very smart reasons.

[jeepster09]

This is the reason that my department, and many others wisely forbid ported weapons. I have asked several folks at the range with ported handguns to fire them in a close combat position with the weapon tucked tightly against their side at the 2 o'clock position. ALL have refused for obviously very smart reasons.


I guess if I have my gun out and plan on shooting.....I am not going to let anyone get "up close and personal" with me! So I won'tbe worrying about debrea coming at me.:yo: When I was a leo, we were taught never draw gun unless you plan on shooting and if you are shooting....make it count.

[Barth]

This is the reason that my department, and many others wisely forbid ported weapons. I have asked several folks at the range with ported handguns to fire them in a close combat position with the weapon tucked tightly against their side at the 2 o'clock position. ALL have refused for obviously very smart reasons.

Two o'clock isn't good enough.
I was trained to fire ported guns like that,
for close quarters combat, by Andy Stanford.
He professionally trains police, military
and has been a guest speaker at Soldier of Fortune conferences.

I don't want to get into a pissing contest about it.
There are very real drawbacks in using ported guns for SD.
Mas did recommend forgetting anything other than firing from an extended arm position with ports.
I'm thinking with the ports pointing directly away, at most I might get some powder burns.
Not optimal. And I'm not trying to make a strong case for carrying a ported SD gun. I can't.

But If I shoot extraordinarily well with the ports?
I may choose to carry it.

Plus I'm a 3rd degree Black Belt in Combat Hapkido.
So I have some special weapon retention skills of my own.

[Bawanna]

My PM45 is gonna make a trip to Magna Port in the next month or so. I'm hoping they can port it right under the front sight if possible. I think it looks cool and I'm not skeered of a little hot gas. If I gotta shoot at close quarters, highly unlikely the hot gas will be the least of my worries.

I love it on my K40, the blast out of the ports really goes unnoticed in any kind of light at all. I haven't shot it in total dark, that could be interesting but the muzzle blast alone is gonna mess with night vision. Maybe I'll work on that closing the eyes right before I shoot style. Go for the 4x4 piece of plywood.

Maybe I should get a second PM45, I can one for far and one for close quarters? Wonder if I can get the wife to buy into this scenario. Ya think?

[Barth]

I love it on my K40, the blast out of the ports really goes unnoticed in any kind of light at all. I haven't shot it in total dark, that could be interesting but the muzzle blast alone is gonna mess with night vision.

Maybe I should get a second PM45, I can one for far and one for close quarters? Wonder if I can get the wife to buy into this scenario. Ya think?

That's the same thing I've read about muzzle flash at night.
And good luck getting the wife to buy that one - LOL!

[jocko]

if u have not shot and watched thge muzzle blast out of any handgun, then porting adds very little tothe vision part. There is alot of uzzle balst from any kahr PERIOD.

[Barth]

if u have not shot and watched thge muzzle blast out of any handgun, then porting adds very little tothe vision part. There is alot of uzzle balst from any kahr PERIOD.

There's a lot of blast from any firearm period - LOL!
Ports at night don't concern me at all...

[CJB]

One thing I think you'll find, is that the 45acp will generally flash less, ported or not, compared to say... 9mm or 357m or even 40sw. The 45 just doesn't flash like the others for some reason (low pressure?)

[JFootin]

I just bought a S&W J-frame Snubby and I plan to send it to Ahlman's for a trigger job. They will port it for $85. Should I make the shipping charges more worth it and get the porting done, too? How much loss of velocity with that extremely short barrel?

[TriggerMan]

I guess if I have my gun out and plan on shooting.....I am not going to let anyone get "up close and personal" with me! So I won'tbe worrying about debrea coming at me.:yo: When I was a leo, we were taught never draw gun unless you plan on shooting and if you are shooting....make it count.Dang, twenty years ago, I was pulled over by a cop, on a motorcycle, around midnight, heading home on a freeway doing 70 in a 55. This officer approached with his weapon drawn and at low ready. Different training in Detroit, I suppose.

[Barth]

I just bought a S&W J-frame Snubby and I plan to send it to Ahlman's for a trigger job. They will port it for $85. Should I make the shipping charges more worth it and get the porting done, too? How much loss of velocity with that extremely short barrel?

Haven't researched revolver porting.
My stock G33/357 should run 1300, extended 1350, extended ported 1325-ish
For my G27/357 I found this interesting info comparing 40 cal.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++
When we bought our second M&P40 in Feb 2009 it seemed like a good time to run some tests.
10 rounds each (same lot) over a PACT:

fps . . Barrel
971 . M&P40 factory barrel, new
974 . M&P40 factory barrel, after 9,000 rounds.
988 . Storm Lake M&P40 replacement barrel, new
1029 Storm Lake M&P40 extended barrel, almost new
1004 Storm Lake M&P40 ported, used, less than 1000 rounds

[TriggerMan]

One thing I think you'll find, is that the 45acp will generally flash less, ported or not, compared to say... 9mm or 357m or even 40sw. The 45 just doesn't flash like the others for some reason (low pressure?)Could it be that .45s are often in longer barrel configurations and the powder has more time to burn off while in a longer barrel?

[Barth]

Could it be that .45s are often in longer barrel configurations and the powder has more time to burn off while in a longer barrel?

New High tech bullets are running fast burn, low flash, powder.
I knew that, and it wasn't low light.
But I was still very impressed with the flash reduction of Winchester PDX1 from my 640-1 snubbie.
And Speer Short Barrel 44 mag from my 4" 629.

The times are a changing my friends - LOL!

[Scoundrel]

Can you guys explain to a relative noob, in concise statements, what the benefits and drawbacks of porting are?

Why would I want to do it?

Why would I NOT want to do it?

[CJB]

nah... even in my range days... the 45's just flashed less... then again we loaded them with 231

[Bawanna]

Can you guys explain to a relative noob, in concise statements, what the benefits and drawbacks of porting are?

Why would I want to do it?

Why would I NOT want to do it?

Porting directs some of the pressure from firing upwards near the front sight so it helps tame the flip. Magna Port says an inexperienced shooter will notice the difference between porting and not porting more so than a guy that shoots alot.

Recoil is subjective but muzzle flip can play a big part in how one judges the recoil.

The downfall to many is that redirected gas is going straight up out of the muzzle so if you shoot from inside your pocket or without your arm extended in a close combat situation you risk getting hot gas and debri in the face or potentially catch your coat on fire etc.
The other concern is the flash of light projected from the ports in low light, no light situations.
I'm not concerned about either scenario as the muzzle blast alone in total dark is gonna wreck your night vision and garments are cheap, I shop at the Goodwill or Salvation Army.

[TriggerMan]

Why would I want to do it?

Why would I NOT want to do it?

Pros: 1. Reduce muzzle flip and therefore control follow up shots better
2. It looks really cool and is an ice breaker at the range. 3 Fun, fun, fun

Cons: 1. It costs money better spent on practice ammo
2. Not needed if you have the right weight gun for your skill level and you practice. Of course, as the weight of your weapon goes up, you've traded reduced muzzle flip for comfortable carry. 3. Increase muzzle flash 4.Increased noise 5. In a retention scenario (struggle for your gun), you can potentially burn or blind yourself. 6. Sights get dirty quickly, barrel and ports require more effort to clean

Depending what the purpose of the particular gun is, as well as where you will shoot it (outdoors?), there may be NO DOWNSIDE, except added cost.

Personal choice. Its 'NO WAY' for me as almost every gun I own is potentially a carry piece. I could see doing a large caliber revolver which I never intend to carry.