Pepper spray for those not-quite-critical situations?

[Scoundrel]

I think we all know the answer to the question of what to do when we feel our life of the life of someone we want to protect is in danger. It certainly is discussed often enough on forums and in the news. But what about a situation that is less critical?

I don't want to try and come up with a fictional scenario involving human attackers, and have it poked full of holes and stuff, so I will post two real life scenarios that happened to me in the last two weeks.

About a week and a half ago, I was in my front yard in the middle of the day, with Roscoe, my small dog (dachshund mix), on a leash. We were minding our own business when a large yellow dog entered the yard. Its head was roughly level with my crotch area, it had no collar, and looked somewhat scruffy. The yellow dog came straight up to me and Roscoe and started introductions. So far, so good. He didn't seem as if he were attacking. Introductions did not go well, and some growling broke out and some hackles came up. So I interrupted, and the yellow dog moved away a bit, but then turned around and headed back. I yelled at him again to scare him away a few feet, and picked up Roscoe.

The yellow dog's behavior from that point forward can best be described by the word "marauding". For the first minute or so, he kept coming at me and Roscoe. I don't think he was attacking, but he definitely knew he was causing trouble, and seemed to be enjoying it. So I started kicking at him in addition to yelling. He dodged but did not attempt to leave. A couple of times I connected a foot with his head and his butt (glancing blows), and he did not like that one bit, but he would just prance away and come back. So I started advancing on him, yelling and growling, and kicking when he got close. I chased him out of the yard that way. He was halfway through the neighbor's yard when I stopped chasing him.

I went back and put Roscoe back down where we had started out, and the yellow dog came back, so I picked Roscoe up again. I decided to head over to the front door and grab the hose. As I did that, he must have thought I was retreating, because he pressed in, and his muzzle was high like he was going for Roscoe under my arm. I swung my right fist and connected solidly with his nose. That convinced him pretty well not to mess with me directly, and he went scampering off into the underbrush by the side of the house. I turned on the water and uncoiled the hose, so I was ready for him when he came back around again. He didn't like the water spraying at him, but didn't leave the yard. So then I charged him, growling loudly, and he ran out of the yard toward an old woman on the street above.

The old woman called out to me, asking if I would grab the dog for her. He made a beeline for her, and she grabbed his scruff. Obviously, she was his "owner" and was NOT doing a good job of keeping him under control. I told her, quite loudly, that he needs a leash and a collar or he's going to animal control. She said "OK" and started trying to walk away and keep a hand on his scruff at the same time, with her other hand holding what appeared to be a bag of dog biscuits. The dog probably weighs as much as she does.

All of this time, I was wearing my CM9, and if it had seemed as if the dog was seriously attacking me, or had gotten a hold on Roscoe and I had seen blood, I would have dealt with it. Maybe I would have fired a warning shot first, or maybe not. But this did not happen. If I were further from home, or there had been more than one marauding dog, it might have progressed to that point.

So there's my first scenario.

My second scenario happened just last night. I take Roscoe for a walk at night just before bedtime to avoid doggie accidents during the night. Roscoe really enjoys anything that projects a beam of light, so if I have the flashlight on he will play, and not do his business. So we walk in the dark. I was about 3/4 block from home last night, and suddenly became alert to another presence. I don't know what alerted me, but suddenly I knew we were not alone. I had the flashlight in my hand already, so I clicked it on, and apparently startled a medium sized hairy gray _something_ (probably a dog) which was about 5 feet from me. I had my crappy Chinese LED flashlight with me, so the light wasn't that great (it was sufficient to pick up Roscoe's poop in a litter bag, but not good enough to illuminate a threat at 5+ feet - from now on I spend the extra time to locate my Life Gear flashlight before we walk at night). It scuttled away from us with lots of toenail clicking as fast as it could as soon as the flashlight came on. By the way, we have some really big raccoons around here. I experienced the "fight or flight" response (adrenaline kick, instant film of sweat all over) but quickly judged that there was no longer any danger. But what if the critter had not been scared away by the flashlight?


In both of these scenarios, I would like to have had the option for a less than lethal response. Today, the pepper spray I ordered a few days ago arrived. I've tested it, and believe it would be effective up to ten feet, which would have been more than adequate for both of these scenarios. Pepper spray might have been appropriate in those cases. Obviously in Scenario #2 it would not have been necessary, nor would I have even had time to use it because the critter was running away. But it certainly would have gone a long way toward discouraging the marauding dog in #1, and maybe even convincing the owner that she might want to change her behavior.

If scenario 1 had been a little different, it would have been closer to the line of using a lot of force instead of a little (fist and feet). If it had been significantly different, it might have crossed the line of using lethal force.

If scenario 2 had been a little different, it might have required the use of some force, but perhaps not lethal force.


So what do you think? Pepper spray might help some situations without waking up the neighbors, and without causing the police to send reports to the prosecutor's office to determine whether charges are warranted.


"An Everett man shot and killed a neighbor's pit bull Wednesday morning after the dog reportedly charged him and his daughter outside their home, according to the Everett Police Department."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015938756_pitbull18m.html

[wyntrout]

I don't know where you live, but another really effective deterrent is a stun gun. In Florida we have weapon permits and can carry knives, blackjacks or billy clubs and stun guns, as well as firearms. I have carried a stun gun and kept a large aggressive dog at bay by just discharging that... bright flash and loud crackle that's scary to critters. I like it because it gives me a choice on pets or wild animals, other than shooting. Warning shots are illegal, but I would fire a shot into the ground before shooting something like a bear or lion... rare, but possible.
I don't recall carrying pepper spray when walking my dog, but a .45 and my stun gun worked for me. I did use the stun gun on several occasions without contact, though... dangit! I wanted to light one big dog up!:D he shouldn't have been loose... a LARGE Chow mix, it seemed.
My doggie departed about 7 1/2 years ago... I still get choked up at times thinking about him... and I haven't done much walking since... certainly not late at night or the wee hours of the morning! It's not like I don't need the walking, though. I'm starting to use my treadmill again... can watch stuff on the TV mounted in front... working on the Simpson Movie now... need to walk another hour.:)

I would pick the stun gun over pepper spray for dogs and small critters. If you look online or at gun shows there are a variety... some like night sticks to give you some separation... and the club... or flashlight.

Wynn:)

[MikeyKahr]

Sorry to hear about how the last two weeks have gone Scoundrel! To partially answer your question, I do highly suggest carrying additional tools other than just a gun to give options depending on scenarios. I think it's a good idea, if possible - that said, I also know that it's not always possible. Pepper spray is a good idea - I always have some handy in my vehicle and sometimes on my person in certain situations. Other options are also good to have (be it a blade, stun gun, a kubotan, etc.) I know uncle Bawanna has plenty of options available (1 though 419 on that rig he's got going on). On another point, one thing I would suggest to you (unless you live in the "sticks" with neighbors few and far between) is to never fire a warning shot. There's no benefit in my mind in firing a warning shot in an urban situation at any time. It's shoot to stop the threat, not shoot to maybe scare something. Check out this great article by Ken Hanson, Esq on Buckeye Firearms regarding the "myth" of the warning shot:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7954

[wyntrout]

I brought that up... it being illegal here, but if faced by a large predator, especially an endangered one like the Florida Puma or even a black bear... rare but sighted in this area... I would rather chance scaring one of those off with a shot to the ground rather than chance wounding or needlessly killing something like that... THEN I would call 911 and try to get professionals to capture it if possible.
If one's already charging, though, I'll do whatever it takes or whatever I can to survive... even cry like a little girl... I don't think I could pretend to be dead and quiet while something's chewing on me.:eek:

Wynn:)

[Scoundrel]

Perhaps I should have elaborated on the "warning" shot. I am no expert on dog behavior, but I have read plenty of things saying that animals don't like loud noises and flashes of light. I would prefer to scare an animal away rather than hurt it.

I would never attempt this with a human threat.

I know only too well what prosecutors will do when they are out to get you, as I was once sent to juvenile detention for a day on the charge of "unlawful discharge of a firearm" (BB gun, fired into a dumpster from an apartment window). I retain the (perhaps misguided) hope that officers responding to the incident would prefer that I fired the gun into the dirt instead of into the dog, but maybe that is grossly naive of me. My friend regularly asserts that most LEOs would prefer to step on your neck while they cuff you, and then sort it all out later at the station. Certainly I would not want someone like the jackass who shot "The last True Indian in Seattle" (http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/09/seattle_demands_answers_after_cop_shoots_native_am erican_man.html) to be the one to respond to an incident wherein I discharged a firearm.

I am in Northwest Washington State (Puget Sound area). We have cougars and black bears in the foothills here, and I would definitely try to miss one of those on purpose unless I had no choice in the matter.

But let's not focus on the warning shot thing, OK? I'm more interested in whether pepper spray is a good plan for animal encounters, including dogs and possibly even humans, when the situation does not seem to justify killing anything.

[wyntrout]

IF you can hit the eyes, it should be some kind of deterrence. I've heard that some animals might think it's an interesting new taste or scent to try... really... bears in particular.

Wynn:)

[beatlesfan]

I only carry a gun and a knife, both lethal options. I've been thinning along the same lines as you, and decided to do some research on less than lethal options. Mace makes some great products, and I'll probably be picking up some pepper spray. There are a few situations I can think of that would warrant less than lethal response, but not lethal.

I'm of the opinion that pepper spray is a good idea. Why not give yourself another option?

Sent from Tapatalk

[Scoundrel]

IF you can hit the eyes, it should be some kind of deterrence. I've heard that some animals might think it's an interesting new taste or scent to try... really... bears in particular.
Wynn:)

Yeah, there's an entirely different kind of spray to use on bears. I've seen two bears in my entire life (I'm 39) and both were way more interested in getting back into the bush than in getting anywhere near me. When I go into bear territory, I am nearly always astride a 750-lb beast that makes a lot of noise, in areas that the bears expect such beasts to be roaring around in.

[OldLincoln]

That's one thing pepper spray is noted for. If you have bears up there you may want to get bear spray - it works on smaller critters also. In the big valley where I live some folks have wasp spray. Although it may be questionable in court, one can argue concern over killer bees which have moved into our general area and have attacked a man north of us.

If pepper spray, the eyes are okay but if wasp spray the feet will do the trick as it may blind them.

[BEARDOG]

Pepper spray is an excellent thing to have on hand for situations just like you discribed. I am a Rottweiler enthusiast and have a large German schutzhund line boy that could handle most threats if I let him BUT I always carry a can of pepper spay in his flexi leash bag and at night that is what we go out for our walk with. I don't even want to deal with a rabid animal getting into a fight with him, we live in the woods so I never know what will be out in my yard.

I am looking at getting a few new cans of pepper spray for the women in my life and have been looking at the new product Ruger just brought out. You mention about bright light and loud noises being good at scaring away things, Well this unit comes with a 125 decibel alarm and a strobe light that both go off as soon as you pull the thing off the holder, then of coarse it also is pepper spray, seems like all things that would help ward off an attack to me.
Have you seen it? It is the ULTRA that I am considering.
http://ruger.com/micros/pepperSpray/index.html?r=y#

[TheTman]

Not a big fan of pepper spray, depends too much on the conditions. If it's windy it can be blown off target or even back into your own face. I think stun gun would be a better choice as Wyn pointed out. And while i was doing that with my left hand, my right hand would be securing my pistol. Rather have it available and not need it than to try and grab it when some hound is chewing on my leg. At night though, with a flashlight, you're going to grab one or the other, I think I'd go with the pistol, you can always fire a warning shot if you think that will deter the attack, although you may get arrested for discharging a firearm in the city limits or something like that. I used to get surprised by feral dogs from time to time, and most often they'd take off running when I produced my pistol. I have no idea why, just glad they did, although the two rottweilers I probably should have put down as they were acting pretty aggressive and I hate to think of them mauling some little girl getting off the school bus.

[beatlesfan]

Thanks for the link to the Ruger OC spray. I'll definitely be buying that one for the girlfriend. She just graduated college, but for her senior year I had bought her Mace brand OC spray that is disguised as a pen, the pen works to! She thankfully never had to use it, but I felt a lot better knowing that she had it. Now she's a reporter for a newspaper and has to go into some less than desirable places. She's not comfortable with guns yet, but this Ruger mace looks like the ticket.

[TheTman]

I didn't see the Ruger product before I posted. That looked pretty good for someone like my daughter or soon to be ex wife that won't touch a gun.

[beatlesfan]

I didn't see the Ruger product before I posted. That looked pretty good for someone like my daughter or soon to be ex wife that won't touch a gun.

This is my thought exactly. For someone who won't touch a gun, or isn't good enough with guns yet, this seems like the next best option. It's not like a knife where if the attacker gets it away from them, it can then be used on your loved one to seriously harm them.

[BEARDOG]

Your welcome, I thought it looked like a good product when I thought about it from an attackers vantage. I would hightail it away from whoever I was trying to attack/rape if an alarm and a stobe light where going off, not to mention I just got a face full of pepper spray. Even if she misses with the spray I think the alarm and strobe will send most packing.

[beatlesfan]

...I would hightail it away from whoever I was trying to attack/rape if an alarm and a stobe light where going off, not to mention I just got a face full of pepper spray. Even if she misses with the spray I think the alarm and strobe will send most packing.

What I was thinking to, especially totally unexpected. That would scare the pants off me!

[jlottmc]

I would suggest a small ASP baton over any kind of pepper spray. I used to work for Dallas, and we were given some dog spray. I've had some dogs run, and some look at me and say "HOT SAUCE!!!" with a big smile when hit. I found that the 12" crescent wrench in my back pocket worked much better. One shot and the dog was no longer a problem. I only had to shoot one though, and it came through a fence at me.

[TominCA]

I read a lot of stuff where people are thinking of reaching for a firearm when there really isn't a need (yet) for deadly force. The problem is when you only have fists or a gun you don't have any middle ground. Most of the problems I've had were "pepper spray" level and it can solve a lot of social difficulty. I like the Kimber spray because it is powered by some sort of charge - so it doesn't change behavior in different temperatures. Only 2 shots (looks sort of like a little derringer) but they are powerful and accurate and stronger than an areosol spray can so you don't have to worry about wind. I carry one in the car and if I am out late in a bad area one in my pocket. I saw that Midway even carries a little pocket holster for them now.

[Scoundrel]

A derringer-like thing that shoots pepper spray charges? That sounds intriguing.
Here's a link in case anyone's interested: http://www.amazon.com/LA98001-Kimber-Pepper-Blaster-Spray/dp/B003L75SSI

Check out this article in The Everett Herald (Everett, WA):
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110830/NEWS01/708309844

This took place one block from where my wife works.
Stun Gun: 0, Pit Bull: 1

But then out came the guns, and now it's:
Cops with guns: 1, Pit Bull: 0

I guess they didn't have pepper spray handy.

[georgepittenger]

Check out this article in The Everett Herald (Everett, WA):
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110830/NEWS01/708309844

This took place one block from where my wife works.
Stun Gun: 0, Pit Bull: 1

But then out came the guns, and now it's:
Cops with guns: 1, Pit Bull: 0

I guess they didn't have pepper spray handy.

Pits either don't feel much pain or just flat out ignore it . That's one of the things that make them such ferocious fighting dogs , unfortunately .

Stun guns , batons are probably not going to deter a determined Pit .

Pepper spray might be more effective .

I don't want to be involved in a test though ! If it doesn't work you are gonna feel some pain . A lot .

[TominCA]

[QUOTE=Scoundrel;92504]A derringer-like thing that shoots pepper spray charges? That sounds intriguing.
Here's a link in case anyone's interested: http://www.amazon.com/LA98001-Kimber-Pepper-Blaster-Spray/dp/B003L75SSI

That's the one I use - but I get them for about $39 - Be careful when you buy them - they have an expiration date which is about 4 years from mfg - the old ones usually go on sale at about 2 years.

[OldLincoln]

Lot's of stuff happening in Bawanna country. Besides the recent dog shootings, the county just south of him had the Sheriff warn the public of an impending gang war. I thought it was all peace and love in the Northwest but now I see why Bawanna travels in an armed chair. Maybe he should tack some vests to the frame and make it an armored chair!

[Scoundrel]

Here are some very brave folks testing the Kimber Pepper Blaster on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMmiLCdPckk&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMmBCSvSaPo

[Scoundrel]

Lot's of stuff happening in Bawanna country. Besides the recent dog shootings, the county just south of him had the Sheriff warn the public of an impending gang war. I thought it was all peace and love in the Northwest but now I see why Bawanna travels in an armed chair. Maybe he should tack some vests to the frame and make it an armored chair!

There are ass-hats everywhere, and the media makes it sound worse than it is. The Pacific Northwest is relatively stable and peaceful, yes. But there are bad neighborhoods and gangs wherever you go.

[OldLincoln]

Wow, I watched the Kimber Blaster videos and I'm thinking that's the one. A charge propels the liquid (not aerosol mist) and the videos demonstrate it is very debilitating for several minutes. One other video not linked showed you can miss when shooting it and there's no effect on the bad guy. You get two shots but better not miss. If it's a bad guy he may take the opportunity to get away, but if a bull dog going ape, wait till he has a grip on your leg and spray him in the face. Yeah right! The good part is if you dog is attacked you can spray them both if necessary and make up with your dog later. You: "I'm sorry." Dog: "You SHOT me, you SOB!" Might take a nice filet and lots of love for a week or so. They say that dogs, unlike wives, can be locked in the trunk for a couple hours and will be glad to see you when you let them out.

[Scoundrel]

I was thinking I actually prefer the "squirt gun" kind, for these reasons:
1. The "Sabre Red" compact pepper spray (http://www.amazon.com/Sabre-Compact-Pepper-Spray-Release/dp/B000UVTDLG) is only $7/ea.
2. You get about 25 blasts (depending on duration).
3. If your aim isn't true, you can hold down the activator and correct your aim.

The Pepper Blaster does have some good points, those being a somewhat better range (maybe), less likelihood of getting it blown back in your own face, and a more instant delivery of a large amount of the stuff (if your aim is true).
But the down sides of the price and two-shot limitation are pretty steep.


They say that dogs, unlike wives, can be locked in the trunk for a couple hours and will be glad to see you when you let them out.

THAT is some funny shiz right there. I just posted it on my Facebook status. My wife just responded with "I would say that's definitely true in our case."
:D

[Bawanna]

There are ass-hats everywhere, and the media makes it sound worse than it is. The Pacific Northwest is relatively stable and peaceful, yes. But there are bad neighborhoods and gangs wherever you go.

We arrested a guy yesterday who claimed ties to the Cuban Drug Cartel. Had several from the Mexican Drug Cartel a few months ago. What the heck are they doing in my peaceful little town of Monroe.
We got the gang thing going too, really got it in a few towns east of the mountains.

Still over all pretty peaceful but I am taking the vest idea into consideration. I have one for me but chairs are expensive, worth a little protection. Course a 400 pound chair ain't a really good thing for bobbing and weaving either I reckon.

[Scoundrel]

Here's a pepper spray dispenser to top them all!
http://gizmodo.com/5836623/riot+busting-backpack-scorches-your-face-and-dyes-you-blue

Bawanna, would that be Monroe, WA?

[Bawanna]

Here's a pepper spray dispenser to top them all!
http://gizmodo.com/5836623/riot+busting-backpack-scorches-your-face-and-dyes-you-blue

Bawanna, would that be Monroe, WA?

Indeed it would be. I was about to PM you and find out what part of our world you were in. You indicated NW, figured you couldn't be too far off.
Jimbar is up north, Spider Tattoo is around here not sure where, a couple eastern washington.

Not many of us NW folks hanging out with these East Coast, Texas, Florida bunch. Guess long as they don't hear us talk funny they won't notice.
When my relatives were here from Missouri and new family from North Carolina it was music to my ears. About an hour chatting with em and my normal vocabulary comes right back. Must be liking riding a bike or something.

[Scoundrel]

Closer than you think! I'm in Snohomish, WA. Native to Seattle, and hating this "heat wave" we've been having.

[Bawanna]

Closer than you think! I'm in Snohomish, WA. Native to Seattle, and hating this "heat wave" we've been having.

Well practically next door neighbors. I understand the Fred Meyer store there off from Bickford is stocking handguns. Haven't been in there yet but heard they had a decent inventory. Bought a few guns from Fred Meyer back when they all carried guns, and used to have sporting goods and hardware, some even wood. Pretty worthless anymore.

We got a new gun shop next to JR Phinikeys there on SR 2. Seem like nice guys and the store is clean and bright. Pretty good assortment of accessories and excellent ammo inventory with relatively decent prices. Still new so not tons of gun inventory but I'm hoping they make it. We need a good gun shop in this town.

[Dietrich]

I had an experience with an aggressive dog charging me and my dachshund during a Christmas visit to my in laws a couple of years ago.I shot and killed him.Never lost a wink of sleep over it.The dog had bitten others,including a child, and the owner still let it roam free.I don`t know how pepper spray would have worked but a Golden Saber 124 grain +P did just dandy.

[bonjorno2]

I haven't read any other responses as I am sure the advice listed above is all good advice... I would just mention incase it hasn't already been mentioned anytime you use OC spray chances are good it will get you and anyone else around you too.... Just be careful and best of luck!

[OldLincoln]

Funny you mention that. Someone was using the wasp spray for it's intended use but some ran down onto his hand. He said it was like being shocked.

[Scoundrel]

I had a hornet problem here a few years ago. I was too lenient and they started moving in en masse. I mostly left them alone and they left me alone, until one day I was minding my own business and one of the little bastards decided to sting my hand.

It's been a LONG, LONG time since I was stung last, and I had forgotten how much that hurts.

Anyway, I went and got a couple cans of the stuff, waited for a cold morning, and pulled an Anakin Skywalker on them. It's a bit creepy how they start uncontrollably twitching the instant the stuff touches them. I mean, it's a contact neurotoxin, so that's what it does. But it's still creepy to watch it happen.

I didn't get any on me. I repeated sprayings every year when they started coming back. Now they've thankfully decided that it's a bad neighborhood, and none came back this spring.

[wyntrout]

Say what?! I can remember before there were spray cans of "Wasp Spray" we used a soda can full of gas or kerosene to slosh on the wasp nests... shocked!?? What a wuss!

I wouldn't want to use it anything other than the intended... or some really bad guys. I certainly wouldn't want to intentionally spray it into any animal's eyes! Blinding anything or anyone that is not truly trying to kill you is very cruel! Of course, IF your life is at stake, anything is okay! Losing a fight for your life if the LAST thing you'll do!

Wynn:)

[Scoundrel]

"Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin' paid - mostly only when I'm gettin' paid."

- Jayne Cobb (Character from "Firefly" TV series)

[wyntrout]

I had an experience with an aggressive dog charging me and my dachshund during a Christmas visit to my in laws a couple of years ago.I shot and killed him.Never lost a wink of sleep over it.The dog had bitten others,including a child, and the owner still let it roam free.I don`t know how pepper spray would have worked but a Golden Saber 124 grain +P did just dandy.

I remember you trying to second guess your actions on that one. You do what you have to do to save others or yourself. You did good. I'm glad you were able to reconcile the doubts you had. I remember you asking us.

I'm thankful for a lot of things, and shooting someone's pet is something I'd rather not do, but I'll do what I think best at the time. Dogs are supposed to be leashed, confined, and prevented from running free to cause harm. Some dogs are more prone to attack... I'm especially watchful for those. Like I've said, when I was walking my dog, I carried a stun gun to give me a choice... rather than shooting to kill. I don't walk a dog any more and I have only one solution to any threat... deadly force... if I must, I won't hesitate... IF I have enough time to respond... I don't want to be bitten by a rabid animal, and if the pet owner lets it run free, they are breaking the law and I won't miss any sleep if I have to put a pet down that looked threatening. I can forcefully command a dog to stop and go home, etc., and have done so, but if necessary I'm ready to do what I must. I just hope to have that chance!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

I've said this many times... if you're in a fight for your life... to the death, possibly... there are no unfair tactics! Second place sucks! There are no "gentleman's rules" if someone is trying to kill you! Winning is the only choice, and if you hesitate, thinking about scrupulous stuff, you might die! IF you survive, and the law wants to try you, that's fine... at least you survived. If you were killed, no problems... except for your loved ones!

I've already considered the options and made my decisions. If you are waiting until you have to actually do the deed or die, the chances are that you'll die. That's unacceptable for me. Too many people are STILL struggling and putting off those BIG decisions!!

This is the way I target shoot. I don't spend a lot of time trying to shoot small groups. I shoot quickly with a lot of emphasis on pointing the gun and firing quickly. I can live with my worst shot... because at any range I've shot at targets, I've at least hit a man-sized target in or near center of mass.

Wynn:)

[Bawanna]

I remember you trying to second guess your actions on that one. You do what you have to do to save others or yourself. You did good. I'm glad you were able to reconcile the doubts you had. I remember you asking us.

I'm thankful for a lot of things, and shooting someone's pet is something I'd rather not do, but I'll do what I think best at the time. Dogs are supposed to be leashed, confined, and prevented from running free to cause harm. Some dogs are more prone to attack... I'm especially watchful for those. Like I've said, when I was walking my dog, I carried a stun gun to give me a choice... rather than shooting to kill. I don't walk a dog any more and I have only one solution to any threat... deadly force... if I must, I won't hesitate... IF I have enough time to respond... I don't want to be bitten by a rabid animal, and if the pet owner lets it run free, they are breaking the law and I won't miss any sleep if I have to put a pet down that looked threatening. I can forcefully command a dog to stop and go home, etc., and have done so, but if necessary I'm ready to do what I must. I just hope to have that chance!

Wynn:)

I never really been into leashes myself, I'm more of a if you love it set it free and if it don't come back hunt it down and kill the SOB.

My pets always come back, go figure. None of my dogs have ever been vicious or mean. They don't run far if they run. The Beagle we keep on a cable since it seems to want to wander, I keep turning it loose and it keeps coming back too. Guess I can't win.

[Scoundrel]

My dog goes a little bat **** crazy when he sees a moth, grasshopper, bird, squirrel, etc. and goes straight for it without a sideways glance.

Leashes are good tools for keeping your dog from getting run over by a car, or shot by someone for attacking his pet.

[JFootin]

Well, I don't understand the evil motivation some ignoramuses have for owning Pit Bulls. I get tired of seeing these stories where some kid gets mauled. Then, they interview the owner and they are all "My dog is a good dog. Never done anything like this before." But the Animal Control always seems to have record of several previous incidents with the same animal. It is evil. It is criminal. And those irresponsible owners ought to be locked up!

And JMO, but I think that entire breed needs to be eliminated. They have too much bad stuff bred into them.

[jlottmc]

That's just like the goblin that shoots a bank security guard, or gets laid out and the family says "oh he was a good boy, and just getting his life back on track etc."

[Rainman48314]

Pepper spray is an excellent thing to have on hand for situations just like you discribed. I am a Rottweiler enthusiast and have a large German schutzhund line boy that could handle most threats if I let him BUT I always carry a can of pepper spay in his flexi leash bag and at night that is what we go out for our walk with. I don't even want to deal with a rabid animal getting into a fight with him, we live in the woods so I never know what will be out in my yard.

I am looking at getting a few new cans of pepper spray for the women in my life and have been looking at the new product Ruger just brought out. You mention about bright light and loud noises being good at scaring away things, Well this unit comes with a 125 decibel alarm and a strobe light that both go off as soon as you pull the thing off the holder, then of coarse it also is pepper spray, seems like all things that would help ward off an attack to me.
Have you seen it? It is the ULTRA that I am considering.
http://ruger.com/micros/pepperSpray/index.html?r=y#
I just sent the link to my sister in Springfield , VA and Portland , Oregon.
Wish this strength was legal in Michigan.

[Rainman48314]

Picked up a Kimber Blaster II for my G/F. I hope this is a first step toward personal defense. She won't handle a gun.