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dean1818
09-06-2011, 05:48 PM
After enjoying my K9 for a few months, my friend wanted to go shoot his new CW9 with me.

I assumed that the K9 and the CW9 would have very similar if not the exact trigger.

The K9 continues to improve on accuracy, but in the same setting, I couldnt get decent groups at all with the CW9.

My friend shot the K9 very well as well, but also couldnt seem to group with the CW9.

The CW9 has about 200 rounds through it.

Is there a chance the CW9 has a problem that could be covered under warranty?

What should my friend look for?

jocko
09-06-2011, 06:02 PM
its the shooter not the gun, ur K9 is allsteel , bigger and just seems to point better. If ur K9 is a few years old, it even might have the nypd trigger in it which is actually longer inh pull than the cw series , which IMO should even be alittle more difficult to shoot.

I shoot my G19 better than my K9 kahr but it sure ain't the guns fault. u did not say what kind of "bad" accuracy u were even having, i. e. like groups are great but 4:" low or groupos are great but far left. If your groupls are all over the target, consider that "shooter" not the gun.

Bawanna
09-06-2011, 06:22 PM
With only 200 rounds on the tally sheet it should till be getting better and smoother as well.

I think more trigger time will improve both the gun and the operator. Even a crack shot like Jocko has to mate up with a new gun.

sharpetop
09-08-2011, 10:18 PM
Yep, the steel K9 has less muzzle flip, not to mention 3 dot sights. The CW9 has "dot the i" or "bar/dot" sights, which are not great in the accuracy department.

jocko
09-09-2011, 06:34 AM
certainly in any panic situation one willnever see those back dots on their sights. If they are looking for them, be they 2 dot or one dot in a fire fight, they are probably DEAD. Kahrs are what they are, IMO never designed to punch out the same hole. Sure the gun itself mayb e can do it but with the looooooong trigger system, just ain't gonna be done buy average JOE BLOW. IMO one swhould train close keep your shooting 7 yards and under, get damn good and damn fast at that distance and under. POA IMO is the only way to shoot that gun at that distance and be fast about it. Keep um all in a FBI "Q": silhoulette at that distance and your gonna win your gun battle. YOU WILL NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT LOOKING FOR THAT BACK SIGHT. See the front sight clearly and all else will fall in place at that distaance. Once you get your shooting technique down, you are gonna find that when you pull up that gun and see that front sight clearly, that the back sight is in perfect position, or at 7 yards and under it is more than perfect to keep your shot groups very good but yet fast return of fire.. Alot of combat defense gun shooters seem to like the total no dot at all back sight, as THEY KNOW. what I am talking about in the above verbage..

OldLincoln
09-09-2011, 12:26 PM
What Jocko said, and you might even get a shot during the transition from holster to sights.

Bill K
09-09-2011, 12:53 PM
certainly in any panic situation one willnever see those back dots on their sights. If they are looking for them, be they 2 dot or one dot in a fire fight, they are probably DEAD. Kahrs are what they are, IMO never designed to punch out the same hole. Sure the gun itself mayb e can do it but with the looooooong trigger system, just ain't gonna be done buy average JOE BLOW. IMO one swhould train close keep your shooting 7 yards and under, get damn good and damn fast at that distance and under. POA IMO is the only way to shoot that gun at that distance and be fast about it. Keep um all in a FBI "Q": silhoulette at that distance and your gonna win your gun battle. YOU WILL NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT LOOKING FOR THAT BACK SIGHT. See the front sight clearly and all else will fall in place at that distaance. Once you get your shooting technique down, you are gonna find that when you pull up that gun and see that front sight clearly, that the back sight is in perfect position, or at 7 yards and under it is more than perfect to keep your shot groups very good but yet fast return of fire.. Alot of combat defense gun shooters seem to like the total no dot at all back sight, as THEY KNOW. what I am talking about in the above verbage..

+1

I'll go even further and go out on a limb exposing both my bias [bigotry?] and some will say ignorance... I think that the manufactures do us a dis-favor by putting anything more than gutter sights on these sub-compact SD handguns. Particularly the pocket .380s.

Am I now banned from the forum?

JFootin
09-09-2011, 01:38 PM
+1

I'll go even further and go out on a limb exposing both my bias [bigotry?] and some will say ignorance... I think that the manufactures do us a dis-favor by putting anything more than gutter sights on these sub-compact SD handguns. Particularly the pocket .380s.

Am I now banned from the forum?

No. In fact, there is a gutter sighted PM40 for sale on this forum right now. Price $450, $10 shipping.
http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8042

You know, I am going to try to practice shooting my CM9 within 7 yards without using the sights—from the hip or below my line of sight. I believe that I can get a feel for pointing and shooting the gun with COM accuracy at that range, and that is all I need for self defense. Of course, having the sights there for longer shots or exact placement is good. But if I can perfect the point and shoot method, it would make for a quicker deployment of lead toward BG in an OMG situation. Now, I don't mean point and shoot randomly toward your target, while cringing and and looking for a way out like we know happens and have seen videos of neighborhood toughs doing—totally untrained and incompetent pistol handling. But something that I have trained to do, with the pistol being a familiar part of my body that I can instinctually point where I want the bullets to go. Bob Munden does it truly from the hip, rapid fire, with extreme accuracy. I'll never approach his talent; may be more like jocko. :) But I think there is a time advantage not having to line up the sights in an OMG, close range situation. JMHO. :84:

Bawanna
09-09-2011, 02:08 PM
+1

I'll go even further and go out on a limb exposing both my bias [bigotry?] and some will say ignorance... I think that the manufactures do us a dis-favor by putting anything more than gutter sights on these sub-compact SD handguns. Particularly the pocket .380s.

Am I now banned from the forum?

Of course your not banned. Just isn't that easy. I agree for the most part particularly the 380's. I think everything else having sights is a nice option weather you get to use them or not.

jocko
09-09-2011, 02:17 PM
trust me Bill K, u gotta really fokk up to get banned here. I would have been gone 6000 posts back on any other forum. I won't disagee or agree on ur gutter sights, maybe on a 380 on down but I do like "real sights" on my PM series. Actually love my P380 xs sights for no other reason than they certainly look cool and I do shoot these better sights better to. I think for me as I am a POA shootert mostley at 7 yards and quick acquisistion is IMO faster with a REAL sight on the gun over the gutter type sights. Buyt probably truth be told sights on a close u gun like any 380 are not needed...

Bill K
09-09-2011, 02:47 PM
Those XS sights are interesting and might really help in getting a flash sight picture that helps accuracy at somewhat longer engagement distances yet not cost you much time. Still, IMHO, takes a lots of training and practice to actually use the sights in an up close SD situation. Most of us regular guys, I believe, will be in tunnel vision and focused on the threat and unable to pick up our front sight. The width of the Kahr slide is thin and will probably not fully cover center mass until you're out beyond 4-5 yards.

The sight vs point wars get almost as heated as the caliber wars. I believe both are worth perfecting, transitioning from threat focused point shooting to sight shooting as the distance increases. Just believe that more practice needs to be done on threat focused point and shoot - because that is most likely how we will be fighting - than sight shooting.

jocko
09-09-2011, 03:40 PM
being u had to use your 380 in defense, I trust what your sayijhng over someone like me that pretends. which 99% of us fall into that category..

Bill K
09-09-2011, 06:36 PM
being u had to use your 380 in defense, I trust what your sayijhng over someone like me that pretends. which 99% of us fall into that category..

Experienced but by no means an expert. :) I value each and every opinion expressed here at KahrTalk and other venues.

Unfortunately us good guys generally don't get to choose and pick our fights. The next one - God forbid - anyone of us finds ourselves in may just well be won because we used the sights. Just not as likely IMHO.