MK.....say byebye.

[jreXD9]

I'm trading my MK9 tomorrow for a S&W MP9c and $100. It's treated me well and been dependable, but I want greater capacity and something that will rack easier if I leave it with the wife. The MK9 never loosened up enough for her to be able to do that comfortably. Two friends have the MP9c, I've shot 'em and it feels great in the hand. I've had 4 Kahrs.....after tomorrow I'll have none.

[wayneo1]

well you can always buy another one once you get your wife settled in with her new gun. You can't beat a Kahr trigger and you have to admit its crazy accurate.

[CJB]

At least its a Smth and not a Glock...

[jreXD9]

did the MK9/MP9c trade this morning.

Traded my Kimber Compact Stainless II .45 for a STAG 2T AR15 yesterday.
My dog must think he's next......I can't find him.

[Rainman48314]

well you can always buy another one once you get your wife settled in with her new gun. You can't beat a Kahr trigger and you have to admit its crazy accurate.

Re Kahr trigger, I have eight guns, including a PM9, and all of them have better triggers than my Kahr...except the Ruger LC9. The Ruger is longer than the Kahr, much longer. As to accuracy my little P238 is a bit better and my HK P7 is worlds apart.

[jocko]

will they ride in ur front pocket??? Is not the P238 a single action??? I think if my mind is right that sig had a recall on the P238 for safety issues on about 3000 of thier guns. Kinda hard to compare a single action to a double action IMO

Kahrs has one of the smoothest trigger systems out there now the fact is by design it is loooong 3/8" to be exact and some people can't get comfortable with that , but they should have thought of that before they bought it. I don't shoot my PM9 a 5th as good as my G19 but my G19 sure in hell isn't in my front pocket 24/7 either..

[Rainman48314]

will they ride in ur front pocket??? Is not the P238 a single action??? I think if my mind is right that sig had a recall on the P238 for safety issues on about 3000 of thier guns. Kinda hard to compare a single action to a double action IMO

Kahrs has one of the smoothest trigger systems out there now the fact is by design it is loooong 3/8" to be exact and some people can't get comfortable with that , but they should have thought of that before they bought it. I don't shoot my PM9 a 5th as good as my G19 but my G19 sure in hell isn't in my front pocket 24/7 either..Three of my guns will ride in a front pocket (PM9, LC9, P238). Yes, as you well know, the P238 is SA with a 1911 style safety. That's part of why it has a better trigger. IMHO, most SA triggers are superior (easier to shoot accurately) to DAO triggers. Kahr may be best in class, but its the remedial class not advanced placement. I just don't follow the 'logic' of carrying a gun that is not one you shoot best and doing it pocket carry when that is a second rate place to carry. Hope you don't need it while sitting. I occasionally pocket carry my Sig. It's better than nothing and I try to limit it to when I will be standing more than sitting. Often it spends minutes in the pocket but when I reach my car, it will spend hours in my car door pocket. My Sig was manufactured after the recall and design changes. Sig, unlike Kahr, makes running changes to fix issues. THEY redesigned their mag twice. Kahr? I won't beat that dead horse.

[wayneo1]

So of the 3 guns you list which has the smoothest double action trigger? Iam just saying it looks like I am right. :) I have to admit the p238 with the new extended magazine is nice, and done well.

[Rainman48314]

So of the 3 guns you list which has the smoothest double action trigger? Iam just saying it looks like I am right. :) I have to admit the p238 with the new extended magazine is nice, and done well.Only two are DAO, the Kahr and Ruger. Kahr finishes ahead of Ruger on the trigger. On many other criteria, the Ruger is a better gun. The P238 is SA and I shoot it so much better, there is no question of what to carry as a BUG to my HK P7. Comparing DAO to SA isn't fair, it's like picking the best dressed bum in the park, he still isn't going to beat out the local weather guy.

Think of it as two types of triggers. Kahr may be king of the DAO group, but the real winner will always come from the SA group. Even our own Jocko confesses he shoots his Glock better. He puts a premium on pocketability. I put reliability, accuracy, safety far ahead. As I told him, he loves his Kahr, I like mine. I love my P7. Someone has to love freckled red heads. We can't all go for blondes.:)

[jocko]

sigs recall was not a mag recall. it was a safety recall. no doubt single action should be better than any DA, The P238 by sig is certainly not a pocket gun unless u want to carry it with hammer down, it is what it is a small good gun (now) that is meant to be carried IWB OR OWB. If I was gonna do that I would carry a 9mm over that 380 any day in that position.

[Bawanna]

I'm kind of partial to freckled red heads myself if that means the slightest little bit to anyone. They do seem to have fiery tempers though.

Your correct of course in comparing the triggers, there just isn't any fair comparison between DAO and SA. For many the DAO pull on Kahr is perfect. It's smooth and predictable, and gives a good margin for error.
I love my PM45 and the trigger is ideal for my purposes but it rides mostly as a backup to the 1911 on my belt (very little margin for error) so I guess I get the best of both worlds.
I would not be warm and fuzzy with a SA 1911 in my pocket or even on my ankle although I'd much prefer it on the ankle and have done so a few times. No 1911 is ever going in my pocket, you can write that on the stone tablets, just ain't gonna happen.

[Rainman48314]

sigs recall was not a mag recall. it was a safety recall. no doubt single action should be better than any DA, The P238 by sig is certainly not a pocket gun unless u want to carry it with hammer down, it is what it is a small good gun (now) that is meant to be carried IWB OR OWB. If I was gonna do that I would carry a 9mm over that 380 any day in that position.Jocko, I never said there was a mag recall. Sig simply listened to their customers and revised the mag design, twice. My gun has a third generation mag, second generation slide, second generation recoil spring and, of course, whatever the trigger needed per the recall. Mine came with all engineering and design updates in March of this year.. I believe any unit manufactured after around October 2010 should be updated and highly reliable. This Sig model was far from perfect out of the box, but, the point is they listened to their customers and were quick to make design changes. Kahr's mags are just one example of Kahr sitting on their hands.

As for pocket carry, we disagree. Sig Store sells a branded leather pocket holster for around $25. It works very well and I use it to carry cocked and locked. Any other way is just a storage device for bullets. Another good choice in safe holsters is the Recluse. There are dozens of similar designs and a couple of kydex models.

[Rainman48314]

I'm kind of partial to freckled red heads myself if that means the slightest little bit to anyone. They do seem to have fiery tempers though.

Your correct of course in comparing the triggers, there just isn't any fair comparison between DAO and SA. For many the DAO pull on Kahr is perfect. It's smooth and predictable, and gives a good margin for error.
I love my PM45 and the trigger is ideal for my purposes but it rides mostly as a backup to the 1911 on my belt (very little margin for error) so I guess I get the best of both worlds.
I would not be warm and fuzzy with a SA 1911 in my pocket or even on my ankle although I'd much prefer it on the ankle and have done so a few times. No 1911 is ever going in my pocket, you can write that on the stone tablets, just ain't gonna happen.I'm kinda partial to any woman who'll look my way..regardless of the color of her hair that day. My own is grey and the only changes are more grey.

When you say you would not carry a 1911 in the pocket, is that because you believe holsters and pocket guns don't go together, or are you worried the safety will fail you?

[O'Dell]

sigs recall was not a mag recall. it was a safety recall. no doubt single action should be better than any DA, The P238 by sig is certainly not a pocket gun unless u want to carry it with hammer down, it is what it is a small good gun (now) that is meant to be carried IWB OR OWB. If I was gonna do that I would carry a 9mm over that 380 any day in that position.

Personally, I wouldn't carry any cocked and locked pistol in my pocket, whatever the holster. I prefer my body parts unperforated. Fortunately, my c&l guns, 1911's even the 3 inchers, HK's, and S&W's are too big for it to be an issue. I do like SIG's because I've been shooting them for thirty years, but I prefer the classic DA/SA guns like my P220. I really wanted to like the P250, but that DAO was beyond me.

I find that I shoot the CW40 very well, even with the DA trigger - the PM9 not quite so much, but that's related to the size, not the trigger. Lately I've pretty much stopped carrying the LCP unless it's a last minute, slip it into the pocket, thing. I just don't have a lot of confidence in anything below a 9mm. Again, that's a personal thing.

[Bawanna]

I'm kinda partial to any woman who'll look my way..regardless of the color of her hair that day. My own is grey and the only changes are more grey.

When you say you would not carry a 1911 in the pocket, is that because you believe holsters and pocket guns don't go together, or are you worried the safety will fail you?

I don't believe in pocket guns anyhow so its a moot point. But while I have faith in the safety I don't have faith that it won't get pushed off safe. It happens even on belt holsters. Not a good thing with a short non forgiving trigger like a 1911. I accept that and focus on keeping the finger off the trigger, but in a pocket the trigger could be caught on something and bad stuff would happen.
I wouldn't carry a Glock in my pocket either for the same reason. In fact between the Glock and a 1911 I'd go 1911 first.

I think the long trigger pull like on a Kahr would send a message to the brain that I'm about to lose body parts before the trigger was pulled far enough to do any damage.

[jocko]

U never hear any complaints on sigs, UNTIL the P380 came out and then they had alot of complaints. Sig basically did what Ruger did, They copied another gun companies product and it had flaws in it that bit them in the ass. In Ruger's case they recalled for safety issue 50K of them, big time expense, In sigs case it was merely 3000 380's, for safety issues, but the bad PR was already out there. course their 380 sales are in no way ever gong to be in the same league as Ruger lcp and IMO , it is not the size or weight of the gun, as both features are excellent but in the single acton mode of operation which I think most all shooters will attest that that is not a pocket gun, compared to the Ruger lcp, Kahrs, keltec, diamond back, or the R9 with all long, some good, some sloppy triggers, but again these guns are close up personal guns and deadly accurate in the right hands of the right shootert.I don't think sig ever considered it to be a pocket gun but some willcarry it there. I guess u can carry a grenade there to. None IMO will out shoot the Sig 380 when it is in single action mode, apples and oranges

[Rainman48314]

I think you'd be very surprised at how many P238s are pocket carried cocked and locked. I wish I could find a survey or data source. Most of the buyers of the Kimber Solo also pocket carry. I would never ever without a holster on either. With one, I am much more comfortable than when I have a PM9 in a pocket. The way I look at it, with a 1911 style (P238 or Solo), two things must go wrong before I am hurt. With a design like the CM or PM9, only one thing has to go wrong. Its a lesser problem for me now that I have my HK P7. It combines the best of both manuals of arms and is the safest gun I could imagine.

[O'Dell]

U never hear any complaints on sigs, UNTIL the P380 came out and then they had alot of complaints. Sig basically did what Ruger did, They copied another gun companies product and it had flaws in it that bit them in the ass. In Ruger's case they recalled for safety issue 50K of them, big time expense, In sigs case it was merely 3000 380's, for safety issues, but the bad PR was already out there. course their 380 sales are in no way ever gong to be in the same league as Ruger lcp and IMO , it is not the size or weight of the gun, as both features are excellent but in the single acton mode of operation which I think most all shooters will attest that that is not a pocket gun, compared to the Ruger lcp, Kahrs, keltec, diamond back, or the R9 with all long, some good, some sloppy triggers, but again these guns are close up personal guns and deadly accurate in the right hands of the right shootert.I don't think sig ever considered it to be a pocket gun but some willcarry it there. I guess u can carry a grenade there to. None IMO will out shoot the Sig 380 when it is in single action mode, apples and oranges

Well, SIG did do one thing different from Ruger - they paid Colt for the rights to build a better Mustang.

[jocko]

yup they did, it just took them awhile to get around doing it. Makes no difference to me if a company copiers anothers product "if it is a good product" Ruger. B.s. was that they started with a clean sheet of paper and up popped the lcp, so so similar in design and parts that it was not funny to the kel tec. Only big difference was when Ruger foundout they had a unsafe product, they stepped up to the plate and had a responsible recall. Something kel tec never did and never will do. They may look identical today but the Ruger is light years ahead on the kel tec in quality and j"responsibility" to..

One thig was that colts owned the "rights" kel tec was to cheap to protect their "rights" but wow did the kt fanboi's bit-h and scream and cry when Ruger came out with the lcp. They knew the end was near..

[Barth]

I love my MK40 for pocket or OWB carry.
Having revolvers and autos I love the DAO Kahr trigger.
Both my Sigs are great (P220/45, P239/357).
But even with practice that first DA shot isn’t so hot.
I shoot 1911s best of all.
But the thought of locked and cocked carry isn’t happening.

For me it’s all about self-defense.
With an adrenalin dump causing;
my hands to shake, loss of fine motor skills, heavy breathing and
tunnel vision.
It’s time for the K.I.S.S. method.
Draw, point, squeeze.
Preferably with a LE power round producing hydrostatic shock.

The MK40 is the smallest, most concealable, full powered
pistol I can carry and shoot well with under duress.

It’s a keeper.

[jreXD9]

how'd this thread get from there to here? Since this is now a subject on Kahr's triggers.....I liked 'em.....long and smooth, not gritty and not nearly as long as the LC9 I tried. It was just time for something else and the MP9c is just a little larger, but LIGHTER. It fit into the pocket of my slacks and shorts comfortably, too. I was surprised at that.