Is Kahr that bad ?

[Russ]

I have been surfing handgunforum.net and there seems to be a common theme Glocks, S&W, Ruger, Kimber are wonderful. However most every link that mentions Kahr is usually negative.

Is there any validity to all these claims. I purchased a Kahr with very little gun knowledge. My appeal was a 9 mm that was about the size of a 380.

I had no idea there are a good number of people who feel they are on a crusade to tear down Kahr. It's one thing to dislike a product but that site goes out of their way to drive the bus over Kahr and back up over it. Is it the religious background of the owner that get a lot of gun lovers up in arms over Kahr?

[O'Dell]

I have been surfing handgunforum.net and there seems to be a common theme Glocks, S&W, Ruger, Kimber are wonderful. However most every link that mentions Kahr is usually negative.

Is there any validity to all these claims. I purchased a Kahr with very little gun knowledge. My appeal was a 9 mm that was about the size of a 380.

I had no idea there are a good number of people who feel they are on a crusade to tear down Kahr. It's one thing to dislike a product but that site goes out of their way to drive the bus over Kahr and back up over it. Is it the religious background of the owner that get a lot of gun lovers up in arms over Kahr?

You didn't hear it from me but Glocks are terrible, at least I think so. S&W are great, especially the 3rd gen's, but I've never had a M&P fail either. The only pistol that has failed me in the last several years was my Kimber - the standard mags are the pits. SIG's and HK's are just about as perfect as a gun can be. I've had five Kahrs in the last five years - not one problem. Springfields are great too, as long as they are 1911's

BTW, where did you hear that Kahrs are bad? I cruise many gun forums including THR and the Firing Line and most people love them.

[Russ]

Handgunforum.net I was on it last night and a thread what gun would you trust with your life caught my attention. Kahr took a beating. About two weeks ago the same web site unloaded on Kahr. After last night I started wondering if there is any truth. For what ever reason I got the feeling there are some folks that feel compelled to bash on Kahr. Why? I shot a Kimber Solo and honestly it is not s reliable gun but I don't read on the web near the number of negative comments directed at Kimber Solo that Kahr receives.

[jocko]

I have been surfing handgunforum.net and there seems to be a common theme Glocks, S&W, Ruger, Kimber are wonderful. However most every link that mentions Kahr is usually negative.

Is there any validity to all these claims. I purchased a Kahr with very little gun knowledge. My appeal was a 9 mm that was about the size of a 380.

I had no idea there are a good number of people who feel they are on a crusade to tear down Kahr. It's one thing to dislike a product but that site goes out of their way to drive the bus over Kahr and back up over it. Is it the religious background of the owner that get a lot of gun lovers up in arms over Kahr?

stated after purchasing a kahr how you now feel about the brand. I will say this I read alot on the elsie pea forum and there are alot of kahr owners over there and kahrs are discussed alot on that forum and it is a Ruger forum, b asicaly in direct competition with thier lc9 and most all love the kahrs over the lc9. If thgere is a complaint it is the price but striker fired guns do cost more and kahrs has the best barrel money can buy a simple triger system that is smoother than butter on bread. And sure enough some kahrs give p;roblems to but if you read alot on this forum, u will also see that kahr tries their damdest to give good and quick service on their products. remember one thing this is the internet and many people troll around these gun forums just to stir sh-t with no regard to the product. and then there are some people who buy a gun (any brand) and have issues and can't wait topost their negatives on every fokking gun forum you can find and then it spreads like wildfire. IMO u must have decided to "chance" it and buy a kahr, now I just want tyo know if ur happy.:third:

[jocko]

see even O'dell thinks glocks are terriblel. I tend to say my G19 is the finest shooting firearm I have ever had. The majority will not agree with O'dell but he could go on every damn gun forum and state his negatives and then ur gonna read where a poster is now asking questions about the issues with glocks etc.

remember opinions are just that opinions.

[TomMc]

I go to a ton of gun shows here in Texas--maybe 10 a year plus. The Texas shows are all huge with 800 to 2000 tables and lots of dealers--they all have opinions and aren't afraid to tell you what they think. And frankly, most have some level of expertise and usually have worthwhile input. Having said all of that, I love to engage them on handgun plus/minus and preference. Here's what I have gleaned about KAHR. Quality handgun, unique in weight and size in the concealable line with the only real criticism being the so-called break-in period. One guy even suggested that I needed to factor the cost of 400 rounds into my purchase price. As if I wasn't going to fire lots of rounds thru anything I buy! My own experience has been perfect with the exception of a single FTF in the first clip I fired thru my P9. So, the bottom line of my comment: Spending all the time I do in an experienced, strongly opinionated, expert laden gun show environment and the only criticism of KAHR is a 400 round break-in period....I have a quality, dependable weapon that spends everyday on my hip at the ready.

[crazymailman]

I own 2 Kahrs and have previously owned 2 others with not one problem with any of them. All guns of evrey brand have problems from time to time. I've had two Glocks, neither of which were 100% reliable:eek:, but they are still good guns. If you search enough, you'll find negative posts on Beretta, Sig, Kimber, etc. But, as you said, it seems some people are on a crusade to tear Kahr down. Some people are just so fanatical about one brand that if you mention another, they take it as personal as if you called their mom a tramp.

[yqtszhj]

I have had 2, a CW9 and and then traded for a CM9. I still miss the CW9. I have had no problems with either of them right out of the box. About the best pistol I have ever bought. I like them for the same reason that you stated that they are compact like a .380 with a 9mm round. Kahr makes a good gun. cant beat it. I had a glock one time and wouldn't by another one for my purposes. Kimber has a long breakin period I have read. Now the S&W 9mm, I don't know but they say they are pretty good.

[jocko]

actually 200 round break in recommended by kahr not 400. I feel I am still breaking in my PM9 at 32K. I am waiting for it to smooth out "more"
We make way way to much to do aobut the break inb stuff. 99% work perfect out of the box but one would be a damn fool to buy any gun, yes even an HK or Sig and not put rounds through it to be assured it is good to go. WHAT DO YOUCALL THOSE ROUNDS??break in--range timne-target shooting- who gives a rats ass what those first 100 or 200 rounds are called. If you buy a gun shoot the damn thing like u stole it. Every one of thse gun companies feel rounds down range when new is needed to BE SURE IT IS RIGHT. If you don't shoot it how ihn thge hell are u ever going toknow.

You can shoot a gun a 1000 rounds flawless and say "alright this puppy is good to go" and the very next round "click". No one can forsee what that next trigger pull is going to do..

[Russ]

Thanks... I will admit the first few trips to the range have been a little tough. I shot 100 rounds of PMC and when I was bench resting with a tight hold of my wrist with my free hand it was stove piping every shot. When I started to shoot in the standing position with the last 50 rounds of PMC it did much better. O went to Federal 115 and it went ok. One in 50 the slide help on the back of the shell. I also encountered a night sight problem where the front sight come off. I am hoping Kahr fixed. I have not hot back to test. I think if I was to sum up my experience it started out little disappointing but it has gotten better. I now have 650 rounds shot in two months. Kahr had the him twice for about 3 weeks.

[Bill K]

Oh crap! In my carry system is a Kahr, a Glock and a Kel-Tec. Sure hope I never have to use one of them. :rolleyes:;)

[jocko]

ur in deep sh-t my friend. none of those guns are reliable!!!!! I would suggest a Jenniong J22 for best results or even the rarier Jennig 380j. Now there is a gun you can shoot until the cows come home. deadly accurate out to 50 yards also. Dammn I miss that gun..

somewhere back a few years ago I read where the Jennings company made and sold over 2 million of those guns.

[jmurch]

I have a G17 but only for competition. I wouldn't carry it. I have a P220 for winter (or what we call winters here in Mesa, AZ anyway) and a MK9 I'm almost ready to carry for summer.

So far with the MK9 I have around 500 rounds thru it and haven't had a single malfunction. Those 500 rounds have consisted of 115, 124 and 147 reloads, factory 124s and 147s, alternating different loads in the same mag, etc.

I bought mine used and then did the research (doh) but the only consistant compaint I've seen is from people that have never learned that you don't rack a slide and then walk it forward. If you do that of course it will fail.

eff

[O'Dell]

see even O'dell thinks glocks are terriblel. I tend to say my G19 is the finest shooting firearm I have ever had. The majority will not agree with O'dell but he could go on every damn gun forum and state his negatives and then ur gonna read where a poster is now asking questions about the issues with glocks etc.

remember opinions are just that opinions.

Touche! However my dislike of Glocks is because I cannot shoot them well. It has to do with the thickness of the grip and the grip angle. Glock is the only pistol that ever gave me that problem. Anyway, I did qualify the statement as an opinion.

[hubbard]

I have a G17 but only for competition. I wouldn't carry it. I have a P220 for winter (or what we call winters here in Mesa, AZ anyway) and a MK9 I'm almost ready to carry for summer.

So far with the MK9 I have around 500 rounds thru it and haven't had a single malfunction. Those 500 rounds have consisted of 115, 124 and 147 reloads, factory 124s and 147s, alternating different loads in the same mag, etc.

I bought mine used and then did the research (doh) but the only consistant compaint I've seen is from people that have never learned that you don't rack a slide and then walk it forward. If you do that of course it will fail.

eff

I did a little research before buying my first one. Heard awesome things about the gun, the concealability, and all. But lots of limp wrist FTE and failure to chamber. I figured I can shoot without a limp wrist. And I don't baby the slide on my guns when I chamber the first one. When you fire it, it doesn't slowly forward, the damn things are meant to work off explosions. There's nothing gentle about it.

Although, is the Glock hate sarcasm? I've had nothing but good luck with the 9, .40, and .45 ACP Glock's I've owned. Except for how damn big they are.

[O'Dell]

I go to a ton of gun shows here in Texas--maybe 10 a year plus. The Texas shows are all huge with 800 to 2000 tables and lots of dealers--they all have opinions and aren't afraid to tell you what they think. And frankly, most have some level of expertise and usually have worthwhile input. Having said all of that, I love to engage them on handgun plus/minus and preference. Here's what I have gleaned about KAHR. Quality handgun, unique in weight and size in the concealable line with the only real criticism being the so-called break-in period. One guy even suggested that I needed to factor the cost of 400 rounds into my purchase price. As if I wasn't going to fire lots of rounds thru anything I buy! My own experience has been perfect with the exception of a single FTF in the first clip I fired thru my P9. So, the bottom line of my comment: Spending all the time I do in an experienced, strongly opinionated, expert laden gun show environment and the only criticism of KAHR is a 400 round break-in period....I have a quality, dependable weapon that spends everyday on my hip at the ready.

Sounds about right. Kahrs are unique because they combine reliability with small size and lightness across the line. They're hard to beat in hot weather with minimal clothing. I'll admit in the winter when I can cover a belt holster, I sometimes carry something else, but the CW40 is still at the top of my rotation.

As far as the infamous "break in" is concerned, I have never experienced it with any of my Kahrs.

[OldLincoln]

I would love to get my hands on someone's brand new C/PM 9 before a shot is fired. I believe after my fluff and buff which removes most of the friction points without a shot fired, it would be broken in. Let me clean and lube then we'll go shoot and I'd bet a coffee it will be perfect. Of course they have to live nearby (near Fresno, CA) to do this but I am serious.

[CJB]

Glock has had more than several major problems, including AD's on slide closure, frames cracking, barrel problems, trigger issues, doubling, you name it. Glock's marketing team goes into overtime every time they have another issue. They contain problems well.

Ruger has had its first recalls - notably with zero recalls when Bill Ruger was alive and running things. They've slipped, but they stand behind what they make.

Smith has been all over creation with quality, especially on the ill fated Sigma pistols, and when they "upgraded" the revolver line in the late 80's and again in the 90's. Just poor quality back then, with some improvements these days.

Colt could not fit a 1911 to save its life, or yours, in the 80's and 90's. Today, things are better.

Kimber has had a more than a few problems - which it contains.

And Kahr has had a few issues. Barrels and finish issues, some magazine issues with cracking and broken followers, and they have stood behind the product 100 percent. I dont believe they do a great job of "containment", as their advertizing is rather low key, and more grass roots than media blitz. Just a different way of doing things.

My first Kahr was a PM45, that I got in March. Now I've got two PM45's and a PM9, all working fine. I did have a frame issue, and it was replaced at the factory with little hassle other than I had to receive it back thru an FFL

[Internet Blohard]

It seems to me that Kahr indeed does have a regular and recurring QC problem. I base that conclusion primarily on what I have read here over the past couple of years from numerous members who have experienced difficulties with various Kahr pistols that gone beyond the first 200 rounds and have told us about it.

Personally, I like the Kahr design, the overall quality, the smooth DAO trigger and various other features that just aren't available elsewhere. If I didn't, I wouldn't own four of them and I wouldn't be hanging out here.

My PM and MK9s were flawless out of the box. My P380 settled down to consistent reliability after about 250 rounds and has been great since then. My K9....considered among the most reliable Kahr by many....was terrible until I replaced the recoil spring. It took several hundred wasted rounds of futzing around with it trying all sorts of experiments until I finally isolated the problem....thanks to some expert help found here.

So let's be honest....Kahr pistols do have a reputation for being a bit flakey.....not that some other higher end pistols don't (like many 1911 Kimbers for starters) and a number of shooters feel like they've been burned, because that's the truth of their experience with them and who are we to dispute that?

[jmurch]

Hubbard,

I dont hate my Glock at all. I think it's a great entry level gun for competition. But if I have to carry something that large I trust my P220 a helluva lot more.

Jeff

[hdsteve69]

see even O'dell thinks glocks are terriblel. I tend to say my G19 is the finest shooting firearm I have ever had. The majority will not agree with O'dell but he could go on every damn gun forum and state his negatives and then ur gonna read where a poster is now asking questions about the issues with glocks etc.

remember opinions are just that opinions.
I agree Jocko, I used to not like glock cause it seemed like everyone had to have one bla bla bla well I bought a g17 for the wife it took a few times of shooting it but once it broke in I really began to like it so I went against myself and bought a g19 I love this weapon, it shoots great, its reliable,it disassembles easy/fast even detail strip, parts for performance are readily available, very simple design, you can walk into any gs and find holsters or magazines for them . Now I know why there are so many people who love them its not a cliche of glock people ,its that they are that fine of a weapon. I have put about 600 rnds through mine at the range and just did my first idpa match I have ever done and used my glock19 to do it even being nervous I shot very well and I still havent had any failures of any sort with this weapon . My 19 is now my EDC and I dont have a problem trusting my life to it.

[JodyH]

PM9 has been 100% for around 1500 rounds.
K9 has been 100% for 1200 rounds so far.
CW9 has been 100% for around 300 rounds.
P380 had the frame replaced once and is still giving me light primer strikes about every 30 rounds.
I used to own a Mk9 with the carbon steel slide. It had to go back to Kahr for severe slide peening issues and they replaced the slide with a blackened stainless. I sold it soon after I got it back.
My Kahr experience has been 60% of them work great, 40% had to have major warranty work.
I just bought a T9, so we'll see if the average bumps up or down.

[hdsteve69]

And a question for odell why do you think they are terrible . What bad experience have you had with a glock that makes you feel that way.

[OldLincoln]

WE say this often but it "beers" repeating. You read of Kahr problems here because this IS the place to discuss Kahr problems. We have a 12 year old Lexus that we love. Lexus has a great reputation but if you go the Lexus Owners forum you will get the impression that they have bad quality. Again, the experts there help folks understand the problems and how to get help or often, how to fix it themselves.

Please don't judge all Kahrs by the issues raised here, many of which are easily solved by the owners. Many others by telling them how to prepare and shoot their new guns.

[Rainman48314]

I would love to get my hands on someone's brand new C/PM 9 before a shot is fired. I believe after my fluff and buff which removes most of the friction points without a shot fired, it would be broken in. Let me clean and lube then we'll go shoot and I'd bet a coffee it will be perfect. Of course they have to live nearby (near Fresno, CA) to do this but I am serious.
You're on target but actually make the point which is the source of a lot of the bitching. Should a gun owner need to fluff and buff before he can go to the range? Should gunsmithing be needed to a new gun? It certainly is less than 50% but probably more than 5% where filing, adjusting, clamping or remanufacturing is needed. The mags are a major source of complaint and the bitching comes because Kahr has just ignored her customers.

[Rainman48314]

WE say this often but it "beers" repeating. You read of Kahr problems here because this IS the place to discuss Kahr problems. We have a 12 year old Lexus that we love. Lexus has a great reputation but if you go the Lexus Owners forum you will get the impression that they have bad quality. Again, the experts there help folks understand the problems and how to get help or often, how to fix it themselves.

Please don't judge all Kahrs by the issues raised here, many of which are easily solved by the owners. Many others by telling them how to prepare and shoot their new guns.
Why should an owner need to solve manufacturing, design or QC issues? I might go there if I bought a budget gun at 30% under market, but with a premium line and premium price, Kahr needs to do much better. While I am again on my soapbox, Kahr has a very poor attitude on returning guns. There are countless stories on this forum of people not getting a pre-paid shipping label. My experience with Sig and Smith is that you NEVER need to beg or go to a special person to get the OEM to pay for shipping.

[sierrajb]

I would love to get my hands on someone's brand new C/PM 9 before a shot is fired. I believe after my fluff and buff which removes most of the friction points without a shot fired, it would be broken in. Let me clean and lube then we'll go shoot and I'd bet a coffee it will be perfect. Of course they have to live nearby (near Fresno, CA) to do this but I am serious.

I KNOW I've read about this infamous F&B procedure somewhere on this forum, but how can I find it again? I have a NEW PM9 with about 200 rounds through it, yet I've never experienced any hint of a failure. However, I really don't WANT to. So, if I can find your F&B steps, I'll make that my next late night project. Thanks!

[steve666]

I agree, Glocks are horrible. Kahrs are terrific. I like S&W revolvers but really don't care for the semi-autos. Kimber's, like Les Baer, Wilson Combat, STI, etc. are extremely overpriced 1911's, a design that like all SAO pistols, is totally outdated for defensive use. H&K and SIG are also in the terrific catagory. Taurus is acceptable, as is Springfield Armory, FN, and Browning.

[Russ]

In fairness to Kahr they paid freight both way twice. The first time the slide got held up on the back of a shell about every fifty rounds and the second time the night sight they installed came off. They also shipped me free a recoil spring. I think if you speak in a quit respectful voice the person on the other end is more willing to toss in free shipping.

I can say Kahr customer service for the times I have called have been good to me. From a business standpoint I bought my CM 9 for $399 retail. I have no idea the markup on guns but let us assume the profit to Kahr on a 400 dollar retail gun is $150. Kahr paid shipping both ways at $60. They replaced my recoil spring and also sent me a spare. $50. They fired 24 rounds through the gun $10. Gunsmith labor $40 replaced front trillion sight due to poor install $30. Know assuming they have $150 profit in a $400 gun and we subtract what they put into my gun how much did they make?. I would say that is good customer service.

[hdsteve69]

and I guess I should have mentioned in my last 2 posts ,I have a cw40 and a k40 both have been flawless even before I fluffed them up.

[Popeye]

I personally have no problem taking any of my guns apart and doing my own F&B on it before a shoot it. I gets me familiar with the workings of the pistol. I also read the owners manual, which I'm sure not all owners do and then wonder why they have problems with there pistols.

I own or have owned many different brand named pistols that were badmouthed repeatedly by others on the net for whatever reason. After a F&B and a reasonable breakin period all these pistols turned out to be very good and reliable.

So I guess it all boils down to is either I'm very lucky when it comes to buying pistols, or they were good pistols to begin with. Like most of us,I'm not that lucky though to pick a winner everytime.

[jocko]

popeye, we seem to only have one person on this forum that feels opposite of what u stated. Hard to understand why a person would still be here and still be owning a kahr with such a negative attidtue, but they pop up ever once in awhile.

[jocko]

popeye, we seem to only have one person on this forum that feels opposite of what u stated. Hard to understand why a person would still be here and still be owning a kahr with such a negative attidtue, but they pop up ever once in awhile. kahrs are not for everyone, some bit-h about the trigger . They outta do some pre homework before buying and it might save any alot of grief. If there was only one great gun out there, the rest could stay home. Look at Ruger, a good example of a greatcompany that whenb they stepped out of their league and startedmakeing the sr9 (smallgun) and the lcp, forsome re4ason they had some major issue, Sig witht he P238, another exampl,e of a good company who changed directions from their normal big guns and had issues. Small guns are just more finicky for reasons many of us feel should not be, but they are. ido feel smaller guns require more attention of whichg somne are noit willing to give. Kahrs mag issues IMO is something that needs a fix and I feel they are working on it bu tin the meantime they are nbot gonna stop production on their guns. This issue will soon dissappear and againa this is a gun forum and your gonna hear issues, complaints or what ever here first.

[johnh]

The Internet is such a narrow window into ownership experiences. It gives us a view only of who owns a product and wants to talk about it. I think that naturally tends to attract both fans and critics of any given product, be that guns, cars, computers, etc.. For every one of us on the forum, there are dozens of owners who never comment at all. I suspect they are happily shooting without any strong feelings as they are not experiencing any major issues.

As far as having to break in the guns, I prefer a pistol be tight and break in rather than start loose and get looser. Make sense? I know some designs do not really work that way (Glocks for example), but that also gives up a lot of potential for accuracy by not being tightly fitted. Try to get a Glock to be accurate and you will see this. The design is meant to be reliable before all other things, including accuracy.

[Popeye]

Agree John
Anyone who has ever fired a standard Military 45 Caliber 1911 or A1 can tell you that service weapons are not tight fitting and for the most part not all the accurate. Kahr PM/CM 9's were not designed to go through these so called toture test that Glocks and XD's and others go through. Kahr's are a more quality tight fitting civilian or police back up piece that is meant for personal SD that will never see that sort of abuse. I certainly would never put mine through it I can tell you that. However it does not get treated with kid gloves either yet always it always goes bangwhen asked to. I am amazed at how many people want to compare one gun to another and never consider what the gun was designed to do in the first place. Lack of experience I guess. I see Kahr is having some problems with there mags but I'm sure they will get it all straightened out.

[JBarbaresi]

i am primarily a glock guy and have been one for several years now. i have alternated over the years with carrying a glock 19 (9mm), glock 23 (.40), glock 32 (.357 SIG), and most recently came back to the glock 19 gen4. i had never given much thought to kahr, mainly because the models i would have been interested in (pm9/pm40) were almost twice the cost of what i can buy a glock for with the military discount program. glock fans typically do not speak highly of kahr, and to be honest most of those guys have probably never even handled or fired a kahr before. as much as i love the brand, a lot of glock owners are new to the firearms genre and are quite inexperienced and can be very immature at times, one of the reasons i have lost a lot of interest in the glocktalk forum. while recently doing research for a new "pocket 9mm" gun i stumbled upon the cm9, which under kahr's military discount program is priced identical to my price on a glock. i picked one up last thursday on 8 september and fired 500 rounds of ball and 200 rounds of federal hst ammo through it over the weekend. i experienced absolutely zero problems. in fact, not only do i love this new little gun, but my gen4 glock 19 has not come out of the safe since i purchased the cm9. in less than a week it has been straight up replaced as my daily carry.that being said, i think the cm9 is the glock that glock doesn't make, with exception to the night and day difference in the trigger. for some reason glock refuses to make a single stack 9mm despite their customers' never ending requests for one. i'm starting to think that maybe this is the reason glock fans tend to hate on kahr so much.

[recoilguy]

People for some reason do like to complain about Kahrs especially on teh forum you mentioned. I am a big fan of Kahr but rarely have I started a thread on one of the general hand gun forums that says I love my Kahr. Maybe I should but I just go about carrying it and practicing with it and shooting out the bullseyes on paper with it.

Complainers come to the web to complain. Happy folks tend to be more quite unless they are on a brand specific site.....happens with motorcycles too. Haerley guys give *** guys a bad time and let me tell you the *** guys bash Harleys like there is no tomorrow. I say it is not what you ride.....it is that you ride and I try to take the same attitude to shooting. We all need to be on the same page, too many people out there dont care what we shoot they just want us not to be able too anymore.

I love my Kahrs.

RCG

[deadhead1971]

now is a good time for you guys to take my lil' pop quiz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OjfqKTlvlU

Hint: beware of the decoy

I'll post the answer video maybe tonight

[jocko]

ur never gonna stop complainers or trollers, thisis the internetand people are free to post positives and negatives about a product. Guns are no different. Ask a ford man about chevy or vice versa. read alal the b. sl posted sift the gold from the sand,then decide if you want that product, then FLIP A COIN andhope what ever product u bought is as good as advertised..

[Rainman48314]

Agree John
Anyone who has ever fired a standard Military 45 Caliber 1911 or A1 can tell you that service weapons are not tight fitting and for the most part not all the accurate. Kahr PM/CM 9's were not designed to go through these so called toture test that Glocks and XD's and others go through. Kahr's are a more quality tight fitting civilian or police back up piece that is meant for personal SD that will never see that sort of abuse. I certainly would never put mine through it I can tell you that. However it does not get treated with kid gloves either yet always it always goes bangwhen asked to. I am amazed at how many people want to compare one gun to another and never consider what the gun was designed to do in the first place. Lack of experience I guess. I see Kahr is having some problems with there mags but I'm sure they will get it all straightened out.Let's be fair to Kahr. How many months or years should they be given to get the mags straightened out? The PM9 was introduced 8 years ago.

A relevant example is the Sig P238. Problems were addressed within months and a final solution took under two years...and it was a low volume model, not their flagship gun.

[jocko]

Probably 250K PM9 made in 8 years,maybe more, maybe someless, but the magazine thing is not pandemic. U really should stick to Sig, they are just the gun for you, In my opinion an ill relevant example, U aremaking a total mountain out of a molehill, course what do Iknow, I don't own a sig..

damn 2 years for a final solution. Took Ruger less than 6 months to recall their lcp and that involved 50K of their guns not 3000 of the sig 380, wow, talk about slower that ??????:third:

[slowpoke]

The first glock I ever bought was terrible when I bought it but I knew I didn't like when I laid the money down for it. But, I had plans to spend some money on it to bring it to a point where I would like it.
The first and I did was replace the slide release with an extended one because it took two thumbs to release the slide.
The next thing I did was install a ghost rocket because I couldn't get used to the trigger.
The next thing I did was replaced the slide with a lone wolf distributors slide because the factory slide was to slippery for me to slingshot.
So the finished product is a gen 3 G23 with a lone wolf distributors G22 upper. Now the gun is to the point where I really like it but I don't see myself ever buying another glock in the future.
I own two Kahrs and have never done anything to them except shoot and clean them. And I do see myself picking up another Kahr or two in the future but no glocks.

[Rainman48314]

Probably 250K PM9 made in 8 years,maybe more, maybe someless, but the magazine thing is not pandemic. U really should stick to Sig, they are just the gun for you, In my opinion an ill relevant example, U aremaking a total mountain out of a molehill, course what do Iknow, I don't own a sig..

damn 2 years for a final solution. Took Ruger less than 6 months to recall their lcp and that involved 50K of their guns not 3000 of the sig 380, wow, talk about slower that ??????:third:Jocko, take a chill pill. Your BP is rising once again.

The comparison IS relevant. First you referenced the gun in a couple of your last posts. Second, both are well known manufacturers; and FINALLY one of them solved the problem. The other did not.

You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between trolling and legitimate complaints / constructive criticism. When a complaint comes with evidence from multiple sources, it's weak to say "well, why did you buy it?" This is a response you have used many times. Maybe it could become a sticky.

[jocko]

The first glock I ever bought was terrible when I bought it but I knew I didn't like when I laid the money down for it. But, I had plans to spend some money on it to bring it to a point where I would like it.
The first and I did was replace the slide release with an extended one because it took two thumbs to release the slide.
The next thing I did was install a ghost rocket because I couldn't get used to the trigger.
The next thing I did was replaced the slide with a lone wolf distributors slide because the factory slide was to slippery for me to slingshot.
So the finished product is a gen 3 G23 with a lone wolf distributors G22 upper. Now the gun is to the point where I really like it but I don't see myself ever buying another glock in the future.
I own two Kahrs and have never done anything to them except shoot and clean them. And I do see myself picking up another Kahr or two in the future but no glocks.


but ur not a troll on this forum but maybe if you posted that stuff on GLOCK TALK they would call you a TROLL, cause u just broke their cardinal rule "speak no evil about glocks.

i THINK EVERY SPECIFIC GUN FORUM BE IT KAHR, RUGER, sig hk, GLOCK KINDA HAS AN UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU CAN COME FORWARD WITH LEGIT ISSUES BUT when yoiu cross that line, they will come for you.
I have no problems with people comng here and being unhappy about when their kahr doesn't do what it is supposed to NO gun forum is immune from that as no gun is perfect even SIG, but to me when you pound the nail in deeper than it needs to be, then \to me some of that sh-t gets alittle old. Then to me the world TROLL comes into mind.

For me if I was unhappy about my kahrs and pissed at kahr yadda yadda, then u will see one big big ass negative and I will call it what ever I want and u will never see me on that forum again, let alone to continue to post and post the same ol crap for now IMO u ceased to be a good poster but u are now a sh-t stirrer... I think it makes some people feel important... People do get tired of it. Move on, sell your unhappy gun what ever it is, and go find the one great gun that pleases u. It is not rocket science

[jocko]

Jocko, take a chill pill. Your BP is rising once again.

The comparison IS relevant. First you referenced the gun in a couple of your last posts. Second, both are well known manufacturers; and FINALLY one of them solved the problem. The other did not.

You seem to have a hard time distinguishing between trolling and legitimate complaints / constructive criticism. When a complaint comes with evidence from multiple sources, it's weak to say "well, why did you buy it?" This is a response you have used many times. Maybe it could become a sticky.

was a safety issue; BINGO pay the man:third: kahrs magazine is an irritant to very very few BINGO pay the man:third:

[Rainman48314]

I get it now, this forum is only for Jocko and a couple of dozen who almost agree with him. Everyone else keep quiet or move along.

Jocko, you seriously don't think many tire of you saying "Shoot it like you stole it".

[Rainman48314]

was a safety issue; BINGO pay the man:third: kahrs is anb iritant to very very few BINGO pay the man:third:
Huh?

[O'Dell]

And a question for odell why do you think they are terrible . What bad experience have you had with a glock that makes you feel that way.

See Post #14.

My son is a cop and a Glock fan. I have personally never owned a Glock nor will I, but I have shot hundreds of rounds through his pistols. Up until two years ago when he was made Chief, one of his jobs was to supervise a police range used by 7 or 8 different police departments. In 2008 they had two incidents of explosive disassembly involving Glock 22's, one of which injured an officer to the point of permanent disability. I suppose it could have been the ammo, but they were using Speer Lawman right out of the box. My son was shaken to the point that he retired his 22 and will no longer carry a Glock 40. He now uses a 21 45 cal.

[jocko]

I get it now, this forum is only for Jocko and a couple of dozen who almost agree with him. Everyone else keep quiet or move along.

Jocko, you seriously don't think many tire of you saying "Shoot it like you stole it".

do, as I get tired of reading ur dribble also, but we all have a choice and that is to pass over my posts or yours, or read um for what they are worth and pass alittle gas while reading it to get some comfort from it.
Has anyone stated that this is my forum or people must agree with me.???? could it be possably that they disagrew with YOU. Bingo pay the man.

[slowpoke]

but ur not a troll on this forum but maybe if you posted that stuff on GLOCK TALK they would call you a TROLL, cause u just broke their cardinal rule "speak no evil about glocks.

i THINK EVERY SPECIFIC GUN FORUM BE IT KAHR, RUGER, sig hk, GLOCK KINDA HAS AN UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU CAN COME FORWARD WITH LEGIT ISSUES BUT when yoiu cross that line, they will come for you.
I have no problems with people comng here and being unhappy about when their kahr doesn't do what it is supposed to NO gun forum is immune from that as no gun is perfect even SIG, but to me when you pound the nail in deeper than it needs to be, then \to me some of that sh-t gets alittle old. Then to me the world TROLL comes into mind.

For me if I was unhappy about my kahrs and pissed at kahr yadda yadda, then u will see one big big ass negative and I will call it what ever I want and u will never see me on that forum again, let alone to continue to post and post the same ol crap for now IMO u ceased to be a good poster but u are now a sh-t stirrer... I think it makes some people feel important... People do get tired of it. Move on, sell your unhappy gun what ever it is, and go find the one great gun that pleases u. It is not rocket science
jocko, I apologize. I didn't mean for you to get your shorts and a twist. I'll leave you fine folks alone, bye.

[O'Dell]

Hubbard,

I dont hate my Glock at all. I think it's a great entry level gun for competition. But if I have to carry something that large I trust my P220 a helluva lot more.

Jeff

So do I, but I think I trust my HK's even a bit more.

[jocko]

See Post #14.

My son is a cop and a Glock fan. I have personally never owned a Glock nor will I, but I have shot hundreds of rounds through his pistols. Up until two years ago when he was made Chief, one of his jobs was to supervise a police range used by 7 or 8 different police departments. In 2008 they had two incidents of explosive disassembly involving Glock 22's, one of which injured an officer to the point of permanent disability. I suppose it could have been the ammo, but they were using Speer Lawman right out of the box. My son was shaken to the point that he retired his 22 and will no longer carry a Glock 40. He now uses a 21 45 cal.

has had any issues it has been in the 40 cals. Other than that their line is great. I and I know you to would not shut down glock over the 40 cal issues... I tend to love my G19 for to me it is the most accurate gun I have ever shot but that being said it had togo back for slide not locking issues. Gun went bang every time I pulled the trigger and amazing went very close to where I was aiming to..

[jocko]

Huh?

had to refresh my grammar a tad, so maybe u could understand it better, sorry about that.:banplease:

[jocko]

jocko, I apologize. I didn't mean for you to get your shorts and a twist. I'll leave you fine folks alone, bye.

I don't wear shorts.


PM sent.

[O'Dell]

has had any issues it has been in the 40 cals. Other than that their line is great. I and I know you to would not shut down glock over the 40 cal issues... I tend to love my G19 for to me it is the most accurate gun I have ever shot but that being said it had togo back for slide not locking issues. Gun went bang every time I plled the trigger5 and amazing went very close to where I was aiming to..

No, of course I don't want to shut down Glock - too many people like them, but I don't for the reasons stated. I don't shoot 9mm much anymore except occasionally the PM9 to maintain proficiency. I think my most accurate pistol would be one of the HK's or maybe the P220. It's hard to tell because I may be better one day than another. You know what they say - only the mediocre are always at their best.

[Bawanna]

This ones circling the drain folks. I apparently nodded off and missed a few of the last post.

I'll not pull the plug (yet) and I'll not take sides but we're very close.

Happy thoughts.

[jocko]

book um DANO.

Pull it Bawanna!!

[OldLincoln]

Like we used to say in the old bar fight days, "Let's choose up sides and go home." Much better than bustin or getin busted.

[MW surveyor]

This kind of subject never has a good ending.

[Bawanna]

Well that equals 3 pull the plugs so lets pull the plug.