CM9 Just Returned- DID I SCREW UP?

[hoghunter]

Ok, so the CM9 just got back. First thing I did was break it down and check the mags. The guys at Kahr replaced the followers so I wanted to get the mags apart. All three springs were in differently from how I was putting them in when I sent it away to Kahr. The mag follower on the LEFT is how all three mags just came back to me from Kahr and the mag follower pic on the RIGHT is how I installed the follower on the spring. The pic on the left shows the tip of the follower diving into the spring a bit. If this was just me screwing it up myself by installing the spring/follower wrong then I am beyond embarassed. I installed the spring the way it felt natual. I could hardly remove the followers when I just got them back from Kahr installed like the pic on the left. Comments please!!

[Bawanna]

Yours is installed correctly, their is installed backwards. I'm ashamed of them.

I'd send those pictures and a polite email to Kahr and explain what you found.

That is totally wrong.

[hoghunter]

Yours is installed correctly, their is installed backwards. I'm ashamed of them.

I'd send those pictures and a polite email to Kahr and explain what you found.

That is totally wrong.

I just did. Thanks

[jocko]

wow, no way they could have test fired those magazines. My bet there all come assembled from the vendor and these KAHR TECHS aren't smart enough to look um over.

I a not ashamed of them bawanna. I have far bigger words for these assholes but I will refrain. Is anyone taking bets on hoghunters gun being right now????

[Gatorbug]

I can't believe they sent it back like that, good luck bro, I hope it runs ok for you.

[jocko]

I can't believe they sent it back like that, good luck bro, I hope it runs ok for you.

I can, u wonder if they really give a rats ass even. There is just no excuse for that sh-t and now think aobut if many were like this and they were installed in a new gun and boxed and shipped to a vendor. Do we expect every new buyer to be able to trouble shoot this thing. I think not. We talk about this in the propper prepping thread and what happened to hoghunter proves one better check over his damn magazines. Just no sense for this carleness...

ain't my gun even and I am pissed about it.

[Bawanna]

Its not good to keep your emotions bottled up Jocko. We really need to know how you really feel. You gotta let your hair down and let it all out.

Easy on the language though, you know how sensitive I am to that kind of gutter talk and dairy products.

[jocko]

a cold beer solves alot of frustrations..

[hoghunter]

So now I am p*ssed too. I have maintained my composure (for the most part) through this process. I sent my contact at Kahr an email expressing my displeasure. I cannot belive that all three mags were sent in that fashion. I trust them to fix my firearm and return it in working order. How did they test fire it? Anyway- one of the mags still has the baseplate that slides off it. Now I have three new followers. Time to test to see if they rub the mag release..... stay tuned!

[BEARDOG]

That is just piss poor work right there. All 3 assembled wrong! Just think, the guy that did that calls himself a gunsmith and gets PAID for it:confused:??? I would love to hear what they have to say about it...

[jocko]

So now I am p*ssed too. I have maintained my composure (for the most part) through this process. I sent my contact at Kahr an email expressing my displeasure. I cannot belive that all three mags were sent in that fashion. I trust them to fix my firearm and return it in working order. How did they test fire it? Anyway- one of the mags still has the baseplate that slides off it. Now I have three new followers. Time to test to see if they rub the mag release..... stay tuned!

in my mind they used their in house magazines that they do alltheir testing with. They certainly could not have used ur 3 magazines. They don't test fire their new guns with the magazines that ultimately is sent with the gun I wold be surprised if hoghunter get s a reply back but if he does it will be a bull **** reply

[Popeye]

I hate to say this but about a week ago I guestioned Kahr's QC as of late. I agree,Your all right. There is no reason for those mag springs to have the followers installed on them incorrectly and put in the mags. Good heavens somebody needs to go back to training, or the person doing the training should be canned. This is not rocket science we're talking about. I wonder if this is the reason we are hearing about rounds nose diving? Just a thought??

[hoghunter]

I just got a call from Kahr customer service. He was very apologetic and made no excuses. Needless to say I am very happy with the fact they called and owned up to the error. Not some generic email but an actual call. I sent the pics to him and he was going to follow up. No way for me to know what they will actually research but it meant a lot to me. This CS contact also reiterated that fact that the mag follower catching the mag release causing the nosedive issue is completely false. He told me that they were able to reproduce the nosedive issue while shooting my CM9 and once they snipped the recoil spring the situation resolved itself. To test- I am not going to touch the followers (no sanding) and shoot it the way it is. I will be happy to be a test dummy and will surely update everyone this weekend. I cannot shoot it until the weekend so I have cleaned/lubed the CM9 and now she will have to sit until I can get to the range.

[MikeG]

I, for one, will be watching for that report. Thank you for keeping us updated during all this

[Popeye]

Good Luck and I'm glad they owned up to there error.

[jocko]

in ur case hoghuntert we know they are right for u eliminated the follower thing but we also know that autie a fewhave had this round 2-3 issue andit was defiitely the follower that was causing it and once they sanded some to get free passing of the follower, then all was well. They seemed to feel they hae ur issue solved, hope so, but trinning the recoil spring to solve round 2 issue is strange.

[JFootin]

You now, the CS people are trained on interacting and communicating with customers, but the gunsmiths could be some real curmudgeons and misfits. Have you looked in a mirror to see if someone hung a sign on your back saying "KICK ME!"

[mr surveyor]

I find the recoil spring thing a bit far fetched myself, but I ain't no engineer and I don't even ride the train. I wonder if, since this is now the mantra for this issue, Kahr will start immediately shipping all new guns with a re-designed recoil spring?

[Ressom]

I wonder if, since this is now the mantra for this issue, Kahr will start immediately shipping all new guns with a re-designed recoil spring?

Yes, and magazine springs installed backwards.:rolleyes:

[hoghunter]

Yes, and magazine springs installed backwards.:rolleyes:

Don't get me started on that! The only excuse I would give them is if they just took three mags off the shelf and had no idea they were backwards if the manufacturer sent them to Kahr that way. I doubt it though, you can see the "scrape" marks on the mag bodies where I had used them from the break-in period. I don't think new ones would show like that. I cannot imagine that someone with even the slightest training would send back THREE mags with the springs in backwards :confused:. Just to clarify from an earlier post, the spring they worked (cut) was the recoil spring, not the mag springs. Kahr CS swore that this was the issue and would resolve the problem. They went on to say that the mag follower scraping the mag release causing nosedives was a myth and entirely not true. Again, I will provide an update this weekend from the range. I am gonna give Kahr the benefit of the doubt on the solution. They have had excellent communication with me (better than any company before) and felt very confident of the fix, so at this point I will trust them untill proven otherwise. Maybe the gunsmith was so happy he found a solution to the nosedives that he put the mag springs in backwards due to the tear of joy in his eyes :)

[wyntrout]

The first week of this month, I bought 4 7-round extended grip magazines... still in the Kahr bubble-pack shelf packaging for my P40. All 4 had the spring with the loose end to the rear. This is from the factory!

Wynn:(

[apdturbo]

wheres quality control? i need a new job and i'll work for a reasonable price hire me kahr!!!!!!

[Bear549]

My guess would be that the CS people just went and replaced the followers for you and had no ideas what they were doing. Can't wait to hear how the range session goes.

[apdturbo]

sorry for my last post, obviously "kahr" doesn't cruise the forum or by market analysis a few changes would probably be made addressing things such as this.

[FiddleDog]

I'm glad you got your kahr back. I hope that they fixed the issue. I'm still waiting on mine. Did they do anything above and beyond for you?

[JimC]

I have followed the saga posted by the OP from day one without posting or saying a word.
I have felt the frustration of the OP and at times, I felt anger myself because Kahr could not correct his pistol in a timely fashion.
No one should have to go thru this much s&%t with a new pistol or anything for that matter.
This latest screw up has got the be the biggest bone headed move by any gun company that I have ever heard of. :mad:
This is why so many people have the negative attitude toward Kahr products that they do.
Someone with authority at Kahr Arms should review this whole entire mess, determine who sent the mags back to the customer assembled incorrectly and FIRE his or her ASS! :31:

[allglock]

I have followed the saga posted by the OP from day one without posting or saying a word.
I have felt the frustration of the OP and at times, I felt anger myself because Kahr could not correct his pistol in a timely fashion.
No one should have to go thru this much s&%t with a new pistol or anything for that matter.
This latest screw up has got the be the biggest bone headed move by any gun company that I have ever heard of. :mad:
This is why so many people have the negative attitude toward Kahr products that they do.
Someone with authority at Kahr Arms should review this whole entire mess, determine who sent the mags back to the customer assembled incorrectly and FIRE his or her ASS! :31:

Amen!
Its about time for people to take responsibilities for their actions......................:mad:

[jocko]

not being able to prove anything one way or the other. My bet is those magazines come to kahr already fully assembled. Not an excuse to get kahr out of hot water as they should check that sh-t out but if they are packaged in a sealed bag, makes me even more inclined to think it is a vendor problem, that certainly needs to be corrected..

[JFootin]

Now that this issue has been discovered, I wonder if Kahr is going to open and fix all the mags they have in stock? Or keep pissing customers off sending them mags assembled the wrong way?

[jocko]

I doubt it. crap shoot

[JimC]

Now that this issue has been discovered, I wonder if Kahr is going to open and fix all the mags they have in stock? Or keep pissing customers off sending them mags assembled the wrong way?

If this is the case, it is piss poor service from the vendor. Possibly time to find a new one?

However, when I bought my PM9, I ordered 3 extra mags from Cheaper Than Dirt. They came in the Kahr Arms packaging and they were all assembled correctly. I would presume that CTD got them from the vendor that supplies Kahr and not from Kahr Arms directly.

When I received my two replacement mags from Kahr directly to replace the two that split, they were assembled correctly. They were not in Kahr packaging.

I'm betting that the mag(s) that the OP received, if not in Kahr packaging, were screwed up by a Kahr employee who didn't have a friggin' clue as to which end of the spring was up. :mad:

IMO...any way you cut it, this isn't good for the Kahr Arms reputation as far as CS.

[hoghunter]

Since I was person who started the thread and had the 3 mags in front of me I think I need to make my final evaluation of what happened. I asked for the gunsmith to call me before sending the CM9 back to me. I did this because I wanted to be certain there was no chance of a miscommunication. My issues (as previously documented) were the nosedives, which was my primary concern- and the fact that all three mag plates were sliding right off with no dimple pressure. When the gunsmith called i ran through the notes with him and asked a few questions. I heard him ask someone "did you work on this one?" While talking with him I mentioned the sanding of the followers and he laughed out loud saying this is a myth. I asked if there was any way they could throw in some new followers. He agreed and shipped it off. When I got the CM9 back I immediately broke down the mags. I was surprised to see that they replaced the followers and didn't just throw three new ones in a baggies and leave the old sanded ones in the mags. I could hardly get the follower out of all three mags because of the way they were inserted into the spring. This is when I posted the infamous pic. I thought maybe I was the one installing them incorrectly. We all know now that I did it correctly and all three I received from Kahr were wrong. I can say with nearly 100% confidence that these were my original mags that someone just screwed up and inserted the mag spring wrong. Here is why I am confident:
- The work order says Polished Feedramp, Reworked Recoil Spring, REPLACED FOLLOWERS, Lubed, Test Fired Good.
- The inside lips of the each mag show my sanding marks (unless they did it)
- All three mags had the insertion lines down the body of the mag from me using them during the break in period.
These items reaffirm my belief that these were indeed my mags and someone messed up at Kahr. Sad part is this screw up happened in the smith area. I certainly hope someone wasn't just p*ssed off that I questioned the validity of cutting the recoil spring and mentioning the follower/mag release issues and decided to insert the spring backwards. I choose not to believe that- but it did cross my mind.
Oh well, all of this is water under the bridge. The real key will be to shoot the CM9 which I will do this weekend. If the CM9 performs flawless then to me all is forgiven! I just think we need to post a sticky or something on checking those mag springs. You have my permission to use my photo as the example if someone wants to post it. Or if someone has some higher quality photos that would be good too. Just a thought.

[JBarbaresi]

out of curiousity, how many coils are on the recoil spring now that they've "adjusted" it? if the spring was originally manufactured wrong and had too many coils it could very easily be causing feeding issues if the slide wasn't able to cycle all the way back or at the correct speed.

[mr surveyor]

which brings me back full circle to my previous question concerning the origination of this post. Will Kahr now be shipping out replacement recoil springs or complete spring assemblies to all those folks that bought out of spec pistols?

It would sure save everyone a lot of money and time in shipping costs alone, not to mention the great PR aspect. Maybe they could learn a bit from the lowly Kel-Tec folks about shipping out "minor" replacement parts that can easily be user installed.

[Chowser]

Just got my new CM9 on the 13th. Finally got around to shooting it on the 19th. The magazine that came with the gun had the spring in backwards and the baseplate slides off without having to push in the dimple. A 6-rd magazine I bought months ago had the spring backwards as well. I fixed both springs and both mags functioned fine. I had one failure to feed, but that was probably grip. Emailed Kahr that night and they emailed me a return label within hours. The mag should get to Kahr tomorrow, so we'll see if my mag gets fixed. I wonder if the free mag they are giving out will have the spring setup correctly?

[hoghunter]

which brings me back full circle to my previous question concerning the origination of this post. Will Kahr now be shipping out replacement recoil springs or complete spring assemblies to all those folks that bought out of spec pistols?

It would sure save everyone a lot of money and time in shipping costs alone, not to mention the great PR aspect. Maybe they could learn a bit from the lowly Kel-Tec folks about shipping out "minor" replacement parts that can easily be user installed.

I have yet to take it to the range and as far as I can tell from this forum, cutting the recoil spring does not appear to be a common solution to the problem of nosedives. I will need to shoot the CM9 and get some range feedback before I am confident that this is indeed the permanent solution. If it works I will post a pic of the cut recoil spring so others can see how long the recoil spring is. I hesitate to post anything without knowing it works as I would hate others to follow with no proof it works. I doubt they would be shipping out replacement recoil springs anytime soon. When I asked if they were going to perform exactly the same steps that they took on another forum member's CM9 (which solved his problem) I got a firm "No, because every gun is different. There is no single universal solution to a pistol issue." Time will tell. Range report this weekend!

[hoghunter]

out of curiousity, how many coils are on the recoil spring now that they've "adjusted" it? if the spring was originally manufactured wrong and had too many coils it could very easily be causing feeding issues if the slide wasn't able to cycle all the way back or at the correct speed.

JB,
Once I take it to the range and this proves to be the solution I will post pics of the recoil spring. As of right now, I am hesitant to post anything as I am not confident this is the culprit and permanent solution. I don't want other to take a clip off their spring if it is a useless endeavor. I promise to update the team here once I get to the range this weekend.

[JBarbaresi]

JB,
Once I take it to the range and this proves to be the solution I will post pics of the recoil spring. As of right now, I am hesitant to post anything as I am not confident this is the culprit and permanent solution. I don't want other to take a clip off their spring if it is a useless endeavor. I promise to update the team here once I get to the range this weekend.

understandable. i don't want anyone to go cutting their recoil spring, i am just wondering if now you have the same amount of coils as those of use who haven't had any issues. or, did your stock recoil spring need some "custom fitting" and now it is shorter than the springs that have been fine in the cm9s that work.

[JBarbaresi]

I wonder if the free mag they are giving out will have the spring setup correctly?

i just got my free mag monday and the spring was installed correctly. so was the spring on the mag that came with the gun, and the spring that came in a 3rd magazine i purchased from kahr. they are all 6 rounders.