PM9 Range Report: The Honeymoon is over.

[sierrajb]

Hey, Kahr Crazies,
Just got back from an hour or so at a range, trying to improve my trigger finger and complete the "break-in" period for my new PM9. Until today, I had run about 150 rounds of various brands and loads, resulting in 0% failures. It was love at first blast!

However, today was a different story.

Here's what I shot:
1. 100 rounds of Winchester (white box) with 115 grain.
2. 50 rounds of Monarch (Academy Sports brand) with 115 grain.

I nailed several "bullseye" shots from 21 feet to 100 feet. In fact, I was able to hit THREE in a bullseye the size of a silver dollar from 100 feet! So, the Kahr is deadly accurate. (We won't talk about all the others that were scattered like buckshot...)

Out of the 150 shells, I experienced a possible 5.3% failure (a total of 8*; 2 could have been my fault):
1. 2 Failure to Eject (jammed open)
2. 2 Failure to Load into the Barrel (jammed open)
3. 2 Failure to Fire (trigger just went "click")
4. 2 times the magazine popped out! I think my thumb hit the release button one of those times, but I swear I was nowhere near that button the second time! Honest, Mom!

Here are some possible acceptable excuses:
1. The gun was "dirty" from my last range visit. I knew I was going again soon, so I didn't clean it before taking it this time.
2. Some of this could have been all ME...I'm still a newbie. Was it a limp wrist? No way! If anything, my grip was TOO STRONG because I caught myself "shaking" halfway through my shoot, so I braced my arms on a firm surface for a while.
3. The break-in period is not yet over. Oh well...I'm sure that I'm well beyond the "200" mark, but I'm sure there will be someone to say I need to go another 200 rounds for good measure.

Needless to say, I feel like the honeymoon's over. I'm not giving up on this relationship, though. This is still a sweet gun, and I'm still new at this sport (and lifestyle of carrying). Any words of wisdom, encouragement, or loving rebuke will be gladly accepted. Thanks ahead of time!

[Ressom]

Yes, clean it and lube it. Run it a little "wet" during break-in. Did you at least lube it before shooting today?

The failure to fire concerns me. I'd disassemble to slide and investigate. If you're not up to that then spray break-cleaner (non-chlorinated) in the hole of the slide to clear the striker channel. This should be a step in your cleaning of the firearm.

[hoghunter]

I agree with Ressom. You mentioned you didn't clean it after the initial 150. I would definitely get that thing cleaned and lubed. One thing I am going to do when I take my "repaired" CM9 out is to run it a little more lubed than I normally would. The dadgum gun is so tight that it could probably use it. I'm not talking dripping or anything. I contemplated a few grips but decided on the Talon Sandpaper grips for the CM9 (sorry JFoot, I couldn't pass up the lower cost of the Talon vs AGrip). I didn't see a mention of grips. Not everyone needs 'em but I want to eliminate any grip issues. Here I am giving advice and I just got mine back from Kahr today. But I am steadily become very knowledgeable through reading & trial/error. I am also learning that this CM9 is not like many other pistols I own. This is not my CZ or my old Glock for sure. It has required a lot more patience and learning. My hope is that by understanding this CM9 inside and out I will have a long lasting and reliable CCW. Stick with it.

[CJB]

The "click"... probably not in battery for some reason

[sierrajb]

Yes, clean it and lube it. Run it a little "wet" during break-in. Did you at least lube it before shooting today?

The failure to fire concerns me. I'd disassemble to slide and investigate. If you're not up to that then spray break-cleaner (non-chlorinated) in the hole of the slide to clear the striker channel. This should be a step in your cleaning of the firearm.

Sorry about the corny title, Ressom, but couldn't resist. I'm trying to maintain my sense of humor in all this. To answer your question, "No, I did not lube it before shooting it today." To give more detail, I had shot 50 of very dirty ammo (Tula Ammo, yuck) about 10 days ago, but never cleaned it afterwards, thinking a few more rounds wouldn't hurt.

I can't recall WHY it failed to fire those two times. I think one time the bullet did not go into the barrel, and maybe another time the mag had slipped down (my fault?). Either cause, I will do as you say and break it all down and clean with break cleaner (3M non-chlorinated).

I've also purchased some Rem Oil in the spray can from Walmart. Some posts speaking highly of this "TW25" stuff, but I can't seem to find any around here. Maybe I don't know what I'm looking for. Is the spray Rem Oil good enough?

Thanks for your help and advice.

[sierrajb]

[...I didn't see a mention of grips. Not everyone needs 'em but I want to eliminate any grip issues...[/QUOTE]

No sir, I'm not using any aftermarket grips. Just the ones Kahr gave me that came on the gun. This gun fits my hands like it was made for them, and I really feel like I've got a killer grip already without adding new grips. However, I could be wrong.

Like I said in the OP, my grip was so firm that I found myself a bit "shaky" at times, maybe from "over-gripping." Is that possible, and if so, could that be the cause of any problems I experienced?

I'd love to rule out shooter's error and blame it all on the gun, but I'm not experienced enough to do that. I will follow your advice and Ressom's as soon as I get some down time to clean & lube my PM9 properly. Then, I think I'll try another 150 rounds with the very same ammo to see if I can reproduce the problem. Good idea?

[OldLincoln]

Please understand - everybody with new Kahr pistols:

The lube chart is for Lube (grease) not just oil!. The break-in is to force metal parts that rub together by design to wear, get it? WEAR together until they are smooth. That wearing together creates a lot of FRICTION! Friction slows down the slide. The slide running slow causes failures. You HAVE to clean your gun between visits and put extra lube (yes GREASE) on the lube points until it is broken-in! If you fail to clean the gun or you fail to lube it properly, it is your failure - don't blame the gun!

You wouldn't buy a new fancy car and drain the oil the drive it only to complain when it breaks, so don't do that to your Kahr!!!

[sierrajb]

Please understand - everybody with new Kahr pistols:

The lube chart is for Lube (grease) not just oil!. The break-in is to force metal parts that rub together by design to wear, get it? WEAR together until they are smooth. That wearing together creates a lot of FRICTION! Friction slows down the slide. The slide running slow causes failures. You HAVE to clean your gun between visits and put extra lube (yes GREASE) on the lube points until it is broken-in! If you fail to clean the gun or you fail to lube it properly, it is your failure - don't blame the gun!

You wouldn't buy a new fancy car and drain the oil the drive it only to complain when it breaks, so don't do that to your Kahr!!!

OldLincoln,
I completely agree. As I stated in my previous post, I'm not about to blame the gun until I do what I'm supposed to do. Sorry, but I'm a bit retarded, as I've tried to make clear to everyone on this forum. I'm the proud owner of a beautiful PM9 that was given to me only 3 weeks ago. I've asked in other posts what kind of grease to use, but can't get a straight answer except for "TW25." Please read my post again. I cannot find this "TW25", plus I'm asking if the oil I have is good enough. Still waiting on a response, but it's only been a few minutes since I've posted the question.

I totally respect your wisdom and experience, so please tutor me. No need to scold. Just tell me where to find the best grease in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I'll pick some up on my lunch hour tomorrow. Seriously, thanks for your passion and paddling. I promise to do better.

[JFootin]

TW25-
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24410/Product/WEAPON_CARE_PRODUCTS

[sierrajb]

TW25-
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24410/Product/WEAPON_CARE_PRODUCTS

Thank You, Sir! I thought I saw this at the shooting range shop today, but I didn't see "TW25" on it. It had some other brand name on it, so I never read the label/ingredients. I'll take a closer look tomorrow and see if I can get this locally. Appreciate the help!

[mr surveyor]

First, leave the monarch crap on the store shelf. Commie ammo if for commie guns with loose tolerances.

Second, properly clean the gun. New guns with tight tolerances just don't tolerate much carbon fouling and crud until they are well broken in.

Third... did I mention to leave the commie ammo on the shelf. Steel cased and "bi-metal" cased ammo should not be relied upon to function 100% in a tight gun.

just my "I wasn't there" guesses.


surv

[sierrajb]

First, leave the monarch crap on the store shelf. Commie ammo if for commie guns with loose tolerances.

Second, properly clean the gun. New guns with tight tolerances just don't tolerate much carbon fouling and crud until they are well broken in.

Third... did I mention to leave the commie ammo on the shelf. Steel cased and "bi-metal" cased ammo should not be relied upon to function 100% in a tight gun.

just my "I wasn't there" guesses.


surv

As a Newbie, I'll almost listen to anyone who knows more than I do...which is pretty easy to find these days. I was at Academy Sports to buy some ammo, and the salesman and another gun owner (customer) swore by this Monarch stuff, but both agree Winchester was better. So, I bought the box of 100 Winchester, and settled for 50 of the Monarch. I was really surprised to note that the majority of my failures actually happened while using the Winchester, NOT the Monarch (commie stuff). Only 1 or 2 failures happened with the Monarch.

However, as has already been established, it's probably all my fault for not cleaning the gun between range visits. I actually got the idea to wait to clean it from this forum (can't remember, of course, the poster's name).

Bottom Line: Brush your teeth between meals, clean your gun between range visits. That's not confusing. What's confusing is the different opinions you'll get on ammo. Go figger!

Thanks for your advice. Worthy of following!

[yqtszhj]

OldLincoln,
I completely agree. As I stated in my previous post, I'm not about to blame the gun until I do what I'm supposed to do. Sorry, but I'm a bit retarded, as I've tried to make clear to everyone on this forum. I'm the proud owner of a beautiful PM9 that was given to me only 3 weeks ago. I've asked in other posts what kind of grease to use, but can't get a straight answer except for "TW25." Please read my post again. I cannot find this "TW25", plus I'm asking if the oil I have is good enough. Still waiting on a response, but it's only been a few minutes since I've posted the question.

I totally respect your wisdom and experience, so please tutor me. No need to scold. Just tell me where to find the best grease in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I'll pick some up on my lunch hour tomorrow. Seriously, thanks for your passion and paddling. I promise to do better.

During break in just use Hoppes or any other gun oil then shoot it like crazy. Should run even on dirty ammo for a while if it's lubed good. After you shoot a couple of hunderd rounds find a grease, any sporting goods store should have some, hit all those lube spots and get um slick, then go with that. I used Hoppes for a while until I got tired of ooil in my pocket then bought some remmington grease at my local sporting goods store. It works fine.

You and your PM9 will be fine.:D

[Ressom]

sierrajb, don't worry about it! Get it cleaned and lubed and then back to the range. I bet you will have a lot better results (like your first 150 rounds).

I wouldn't worry so much on the kind of grease... whatever your gun store has should be fine. And the rem-oil will be fine too. Like I said... run it a little wet during break-in. I'd oil the rails and where the slide rubs the hood of the barrel after every 50 rounds or so.

Good to know it wasn't a true failure to fire (a light strike or something). It sounds the striker is working fine and not gunked up. You should still spray out the striker channel with break-cleaner. There is a little hole you can put the straw in to spray. You can pick some up from wal-mart for about $4 (I think it is CNC brand or something).

[Ressom]

Sorry about the corny title, Ressom, but couldn't resist. I'm trying to maintain my sense of humor in all this.

I get it now... "honeymoon"... "run it a little wet"... :D I walked right into that one!

[OldLincoln]

Sorry for the rant Sierrajb. It is intended for ALL new Kahr owners, not just you. If the proper cleaning is done and it is well lubed new owners would become Kahr fans right off. There are a few true mechanical issues now and then, but by and large it is a lack of understanding of what the break-in is doing and proper lube.

As for oil or grease, while it may work, oil is messy and will run out of the seams as yqtszhi experienced. While it's leaving the area to be protected, grease stays put. The TW25 is what I was advised to use and have throughout. I would suggest getting 1 syringe and 1 tube. It amounts to almost free shipping for the tube and even the 1.5oz will allow you to refill the syringe 3 times. Also advise rubbing in the TW25 as it's a microscopic thing and it needs to get into the pores of the metal. Be sure and rub it into the feed ramp and top entrance of the chamber.

As for running wet, that is something more than a smear and less than a lather. If you put a thin string from the syringe on the part and rub it in and around and it still feels like grease you are probably good.

Please clean it up and lube it well then Jocko will tell you how to shoot it ("like ya stole it"). Please let us know how it goes good or bad. We'll help you have the sweetest little pistol ever.

[Popeye]

I agree,Clean, Lube, Change Ammo and get back to us in the morning. :D

[hoghunter]

Please understand - everybody with new Kahr pistols:

The lube chart is for Lube (grease) not just oil!. The break-in is to force metal parts that rub together by design to wear, get it? WEAR together until they are smooth. That wearing together creates a lot of FRICTION! Friction slows down the slide. The slide running slow causes failures. You HAVE to clean your gun between visits and put extra lube (yes GREASE) on the lube points until it is broken-in! If you fail to clean the gun or you fail to lube it properly, it is your failure - don't blame the gun!

You wouldn't buy a new fancy car and drain the oil the drive it only to complain when it breaks, so don't do that to your Kahr!!!

Old Lincoln,
I was interested in your thoughts on the Ballistol. I was using it before Hickok45 made it famous on YouTube, but will admit that it is the only lubricant (oil) I use on my firearms. I do use the brake cleaner for the striker channel and denatured alcohol to clean off other polymer parts, but nothing else to "lube" the Kahr. Do you think a combonation of the Ballistol (oil) and the MilCom TW25 is the best practice? I really do like the Ballistol as it leaves the metal parts silky smooth and does a great job of cleaning barrel. But maybe the TW25 would be great for the hood lube and other contact points? I swear this is the only gun I have that I have to use multiple products on! Others I just Ballistol up and we are good to go. But I am COMMITTED to getting this CM9 right and will do whatever it takes.

[mr surveyor]

just to point out some information on the steel cased and bi-metal (plated steel cases):

Steel does not have the same elasticity as brass... when the steel cases expand in the chamber they don't have the same characteristic as brass to slightly contract (so I've heard;)). In a tight chamber, this can be a real problem Most modern firearms built to tight tolerances have a bit tighter chambers than most of the old com-bloc firearms that the steel cased stuff was first manufactured for. (Granted, we did have to supply our own military with some steel cased stuff during the World War era due to shortage of brass)

Another problem with steel cases is in the abraisive finish. Thus the reason for the old laquer coating and now the new poly coat, or the copper/brass coat on the bi-metal. Brass or nickle plated cases are darned near self lubricating when in contact with a smooth chamber.

There are many, many cases spattered all over the web concerning issues (some pretty costly) with the steel cased stuff. Occassionally a casing just doesn't extract properly and an extractor gets damaged. Many experiences posted about AR shooteres having to use a dowell rod to hammer out a stuck steel case.

Sure the commie stuff may be cheap off the shelf, but if it's excessively nasty fouling, inaccurate, inconsistent, and a potential hazard to a nice firearm, it may prove to not be so cheap in the long run.

Shoot it if you want to.


surv

[sierrajb]

I get it now... "honeymoon"... "run it a little wet"... :D I walked right into that one!

DUDE, that's not what I had in mind, but now that you mentioned it....

Actually, I was thinking of Ricky Ricardo coming home to Lucy....see, a bit of a stretch, but I was searching for something to pick up my spirits a bit (ha!).

[sierrajb]

Sorry for the rant Sierrajb. It is intended for ALL new Kahr owners, not just you. If the proper cleaning is done and it is well lubed new owners would become Kahr fans right off. There are a few true mechanical issues now and then, but by and large it is a lack of understanding of what the break-in is doing and proper lube.

As for oil or grease, while it may work, oil is messy and will run out of the seams as yqtszhi experienced. While it's leaving the area to be protected, grease stays put. The TW25 is what I was advised to use and have throughout. I would suggest getting 1 syringe and 1 tube. It amounts to almost free shipping for the tube and even the 1.5oz will allow you to refill the syringe 3 times. Also advise rubbing in the TW25 as it's a microscopic thing and it needs to get into the pores of the metal. Be sure and rub it into the feed ramp and top entrance of the chamber.

As for running wet, that is something more than a smear and less than a lather. If you put a thin string from the syringe on the part and rub it in and around and it still feels like grease you are probably good.

Please clean it up and lube it well then Jocko will tell you how to shoot it ("like ya stole it"). Please let us know how it goes good or bad. We'll help you have the sweetest little pistol ever.

Thanks, OldLincoln. I really appreciate your advice and stern correction. It's the only way we dummies can learn. I'll be ordering some of that TW25 from the internet, but for now I picked up some highly recommended gun grease from a nearby gun dealer. It's called Pro-Gold, by Pro-Shot Products. Comes in a small syringe, and it's a bit brown (goldish?) in color...thus the name, "Pro-Gold" I presume.

I've broken the gun down, cleaned it carefully with 3M brake cleaner (not clorinated as you all instructed) and with Hoppes Elite gun cleaner. You know, it was quite dirty, especially around the loading ramp where the bullet enters the chamber. I can see why this was likely the cause for any failures.

QUESTION: I'm having trouble getting ALL the black off from around the firing pin area. There is a round shaped carbon(?) buildup on the wall where the firing pin hits the shell. I've sprayed brake cleaner on it, scrubbed it with a brass brush, and used Hoppes again on it. Most of it is gone, but some still remains. Should it all come off like it's never been shot, or is this ready for lubing?

[Bawanna]

You'll most likely never get it to look like it's never been shot. If you hit it with a brass brush and solvent your good to go. I use a nylon brush to get under the extractor a bit. Lube and shoot.

[Michael W.]

QUESTION: I'm having trouble getting ALL the black off from around the firing pin area. There is a round shaped carbon(?) buildup on the wall where the firing pin hits the shell. I've sprayed brake cleaner on it, scrubbed it with a brass brush, and used Hoppes again on it. Most of it is gone, but some still remains. Should it all come off like it's never been shot, or is this ready for lubing?

If you are getting the crud off and leaving it smooth but with black marks
that's ok. Gun will function fine.

But I personally don't like the way this looks on a stainless
steel pistol or revolver. I prefer a clean breech face on either
and the best way to easily clean this off is with a product called
"Lead Away".

These are small patches that can be run through a barrel
to clean stubborn fouling or just rubbed on a breech face
to clean it all up. I even use a small flat screwdriver to gently
drive it into the corners to get all the fouling out.

And it's completely non- abrasive.

Most gun shoppes have them in the cleaning supply
section.

M-


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.786935,-117.916760

[Ressom]

DUDE, that's not what I had in mind, but now that you mentioned it....

Actually, I was thinking of Ricky Ricardo coming home to Lucy....see, a bit of a stretch, but I was searching for something to pick up my spirits a bit (ha!).

Ha ha,.. yes I have a sick mind... just don't use KY on your gun!

[sierrajb]

Ha ha,.. yes I have a sick mind... just don't use KY on your gun!

Reesom....you're not right! But oh so funny! Ha!

[sierrajb]

If you are getting the crud off and leaving it smooth but with black marks
that's ok. Gun will function fine.

But I personally don't like the way this looks on a stainless
steel pistol or revolver. I prefer a clean breech face on either
and the best way to easily clean this off is with a product called
"Lead Away".

These are small patches that can be run through a barrel
to clean stubborn fouling or just rubbed on a breech face
to clean it all up. I even use a small flat screwdriver to gently
drive it into the corners to get all the fouling out.

And it's completely non- abrasive.

Most gun shoppes have them in the cleaning supply
section.

M-


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.786935,-117.916760

I'll see if I can find that stuff on my next trip to the gun shop. Thanks!

[sierrajb]

You'll most likely never get it to look like it's never been shot. If you hit it with a brass brush and solvent your good to go. I use a nylon brush to get under the extractor a bit. Lube and shoot.

Bawanna, that's what I was hoping you'd say. I lubed it up real good, just like the lube diagram said in the sticky post. Can hardly wait to take it to the range. I'm still a bit confused on the use of the word "lube." Some, like OldLincoln, use it to mean "grease" while others use it to mean "oil, grease, or both." The instructions on this forum are a bit unclear regarding that.

So, in my case, I used gun grease on everything it said to "lube." I'll know soon enough if I did it correctly. The slide sure feels good and sounds so much quieter....AND happier!

[Bawanna]

I think we mostly offer suggestions rather than instructions although there are occasionally some very good instructions for dissassembly etc.

There is no black and white (is that still politically acceptable?) answer to lube. I use oil in some places and grease like in the frame rails. Sometimes I use both in the same place.

I smear a little oil around the barrel and wear points on the barrel hood etc since it will leave a protective coating but not get grease on my clothes, not that I really care. Wife ain't real partial to it though.

I just figure if you see a wear point its a flag that says somethings rubbing me and I need lube. I can see this going completely down the toilet with the gutter thinkers here but try to focus.

Any lube is better than no lube. So the word lube would include oil or grease.

Many like to use grease in places where oil would run out. High wear points, like slide rails etc will stay lubed perhaps a little longer with grease.

But if all you have is oil weather it's good quality gun oil or brand x 30 weight you use in your neighbors lawn mower that you borrow all the time so you don't gotta buy your own, it will work. You might have to relube more often, some enjoy relubeing, but it will work. Nothing to lose any sleep over but do listen to Old Lincoln, the man knows of what he speaks most of the time. I did catch him in a goof about paintball once but it was a simple goof and they happen to me all the time, not that two wongs don't make a write.

[sierrajb]

Thanks, Bawana. Makes sense. I really appreciate Old Lincoln and others like him (any you!) who are willing to endure those of us who are cutting our teeth on our first CC gun. Like my PM9, I'm in my very own 'break-in' period. I've already learned there's a lot more to owning and carrying than what we've thought, but it's sure good to have great teachers like Old Lincoln, et. al.

Really appreciate the energy, insight, and fun you bring to the forum. Keep it up!

[OldLincoln]

We love to find new folks that want to do it right, Sierra. This place is a lot like those groups that have new members stand up and say... "Hi I'm SierraJB and I have a new Kahr"..... "HI SIERRAJB". These characters mentored me and encouraged my learning more and experimenting some and then I wanted to know why it does what it does. I'm sorry I acted out and I'm normally a nice guy, really.

Let me know if you're ever in the Fresno area and want to shoot a bit in the air conditioned Fresno Pistol Range (http://pistolrange.com/) as my guest.

[sierrajb]

We love to find new folks that want to do it right, Sierra. This place is a lot like those groups that have new members stand up and say... "Hi I'm SierraJB and I have a new Kahr"..... "HI SIERRAJB". These characters mentored me and encouraged my learning more and experimenting some and then I wanted to know why it does what it does. I'm sorry I acted out and I'm normally a nice guy, really.

Let me know if you're ever in the Fresno area and want to shoot a bit in the air conditioned Fresno Pistol Range (http://pistolrange.com/) as my guest.

Really, OldLincoln, no apology needed here! I'm one of those guys who understands and appreciates passion for excellence. I didn't take your comments and correction personal, but I took them seriously. I wouldn't call it "acting out" at all, and I can tell you're a "nice guy." So, keep being OldLincoln, and keep me in line. As a teacher myself, I've learned the importance of remaining teachable. So...consider me one of your students!

Thanks for the offer to visit Fresno Pistol Range! Rooted and living in Texas, I can't promise I'll be there anytime soon, but the offer was very kind. Be readin' more of you soon!

[JFootin]

Hey guys, do you lube anywhere else except what is on the lube chart? I think Bawanna mentioned the extractor? What about the trigger assembly and the transfer bar? Also, there was mention of rubbing TW25 in some places, including the feed ramp and the edge of the chamber. I don't have TW25. I have Birchwood Casey SNO Universal Gun Grease. Equivalent? I also have Flitz Rifle, Gun and Knife Wax (and a cleaner to use before applying). Should I just use this externally and on mags?

[Bawanna]

I put a drop of oil in the back of the extractor just to insure it moves freely.

I'll put a drop of oil on the trigger pivot point/spring also. I haven't oiled the trigger bar but I might look at that next time I got it apart.

[sierrajb]

Thank You, Sir! I thought I saw this at the shooting range shop today, but I didn't see "TW25" on it. It had some other brand name on it, so I never read the label/ingredients. I'll take a closer look tomorrow and see if I can get this locally. Appreciate the help!


Well, I went the to website to order some of this, but found they were out. O well...

[Bawanna]

Well, I went the to website to order some of this, but found they were out. O well...

I think Brownells and Midway have it. You don't have to go direct.

[Bawanna]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24410/Product/WEAPON_CARE_PRODUCTS

I'm sure you can find enough stuff to fill a large box at this place. It's a gun owners candy store for sure.

[wm36]

I've seen TW25 at Amazon also.

[OldLincoln]

Brownell's has the syringe on backorder. I would expect that to change real soon so if it were me I'd go ahead and order a syringe and a 1.5oz tube now. I checked and they told me they charge only once for shipping which covers both items and they ship what's in stock now and the other when it comes in.

[jocko]

Mil-comm.com

just order it direct. their webb site is very nice, u might just find some other stuff there to.

[sierrajb]

OldLincoln, it was on back order when I visited the site, too.

Jocko, I went to that site earlier today to check out their lube. Sure enough, they had plenty in stock, and it was a nice site!

WM36, I saw it on Amazon, too, but it had Brownell's as one of the places amid others. Still want to look around to see if I can find some locally. I just bought a syringe of Pro-Gold grease. Highly recommended by a local gun dealer. That's what I have my PM9 lubed with right now.

[OldLincoln]

It's TW25B, not WM36. If you read the stuff on their web site you see it has a lot of fans in the military and police forces.

I've read that Glocks with a gold colored grease. Could that be ProGold?

[wm36]

Ha! OldLincoln that's me! I'm wm36! ;) But that's ok. If they want to name some fancy gun grease after me that's ok. I'd rather it be some slick little semi-auto though... :)

[OldLincoln]

Ha! Well, I can still laugh at myself. Seem to do it more and more but it's all good. Oops, gotta go, the nurse is here to bib me up for lunch.....

[USMCESQ]

Hey, Kahr Crazies,
Just got back from an hour or so at a range, trying to improve my trigger finger and complete the "break-in" period for my new PM9. Until today, I had run about 150 rounds of various brands and loads, resulting in 0% failures. It was love at first blast!

However, today was a different story.

Here's what I shot:
1. 100 rounds of Winchester (white box) with 115 grain.
2. 50 rounds of Monarch (Academy Sports brand) with 115 grain.

I nailed several "bullseye" shots from 21 feet to 100 feet. In fact, I was able to hit THREE in a bullseye the size of a silver dollar from 100 feet! So, the Kahr is deadly accurate. (We won't talk about all the others that were scattered like buckshot...)

Out of the 150 shells, I experienced a possible 5.3% failure (a total of 8*; 2 could have been my fault):
1. 2 Failure to Eject (jammed open)
2. 2 Failure to Load into the Barrel (jammed open)
3. 2 Failure to Fire (trigger just went "click")
4. 2 times the magazine popped out! I think my thumb hit the release button one of those times, but I swear I was nowhere near that button the second time! Honest, Mom!

Here are some possible acceptable excuses:
1. The gun was "dirty" from my last range visit. I knew I was going again soon, so I didn't clean it before taking it this time.
2. Some of this could have been all ME...I'm still a newbie. Was it a limp wrist? No way! If anything, my grip was TOO STRONG because I caught myself "shaking" halfway through my shoot, so I braced my arms on a firm surface for a while.
3. The break-in period is not yet over. Oh well...I'm sure that I'm well beyond the "200" mark, but I'm sure there will be someone to say I need to go another 200 rounds for good measure.

Needless to say, I feel like the honeymoon's over. I'm not giving up on this relationship, though. This is still a sweet gun, and I'm still new at this sport (and lifestyle of carrying). Any words of wisdom, encouragement, or loving rebuke will be gladly accepted. Thanks ahead of time!
I recently reviewed a joint report from various Federal Agencies to include, inter alia, CIA, FBI. It seems they have discovered a direct and positive relationship between laziness and poor quality handguns. While unable to determine causation with absolute certainty, what was absolutely clear is the fact that lazy people who purchase handguns report the same are of substandard quality at a rate enormously higher than the public generally.

This report was indeed shocking, however, I do seem to recall someone else stating that dirty guns might ftf, jam and otherwise perform poorly. Can someone point me in the right direction; I do not want to misquote, but could swear I have heard this before.

[sierrajb]

And your point is . . . ?

Remember that inexperienced handgun buyers sometime expect guns to be similar to the other appliances in their lives and to not need much maintenance. Not everyone has the advantage of your vast tactical experience.

Most of us on this forum are of the opinion that a little thoughtful guidance is more effective than ad hominem criticism. Until your comments, this thread was a typical example of that approach.

Thanks, TusconMTB, for coming to my defense. I do appreciate the kind and firm guidance that you and everyone else on this forum have provided me in the short month of my education with handguns and self defense.

At first, I did not know how to respond to Mr. USMCESQ's radical, unfounded sarcasm. In fact, I'm still processing it. The humor and irony of it all is that someone with such a high level of expertise would feel the need to imply it was my laziness, not my ignorance, that led to all my failures.

I work 2 fulltime jobs, averaging 80+ hours a week while still finding time to be a faithful husband to a loving wife and a good Dad to two teenagers. I've often been accused of being a workaholic, but never lazy!

I would only ask Mr. USMCESQ to read ALL of my posts, especially the one titled, "Dearest PM9, I'm Sorry." No hard feelings, Mr. USMCESQ. Your comments are founded on partial knowledge of the whole truth and circumstances. No, you are not lazy because you made a mistake in judgment. Like me, you needed a little more education on the subject.

Thanks again, Kahr Talk, for accepting my limited skills and knowledge, and for willingly sharing your wisdom with the likes of me. Blessings to you, and blessings to Mr. USMCESQ as he continues to learn, too.

[OldLincoln]

Hey guy, don't pick on my buddy SierraJB!! He is not lazy and is doing just fine thank you. We like to hear folks give educated opinions but at least given your post count I have to say you don't know him or KahrTalk very well.

As for gun issues, Kahrs need a wet breakin and once the fitting together is done they are a wonderful handgun. You would be surprised at the number of well experienced hand gun owners that have initial failures with Kahrs. These short, thin guns are like a hot rod go kart being very snappy and quick. They were designed to be short requiring a full slide action that breakin friction can easily disrupt. Once all smoothed out and properly lubed, they are like a fine watch with all parts smoothly working in unison.

I hope you stick around and join in with the conversation here USMCESO. I suspect you have some good things to offer.

[Jitterbug]

Clean and shoot, clean and shoot. Keep it well lubed, TW25B and or some FP10 and don't shoot so much in one session. 50-75 rounds in a session is plenty, no doubt some fatigue is going to set in after that, the little gun does recoil a bit due to it's light weight.

I have two PM9's, one from 2004 and a 2011 model, both hiccuped a bit at first. The 2004 model broke in nicely after the first 250 rounds and the same exact thing with the second 2011 model.

The 2004 model has since run a couple of thousands rounds trouble free and the 2011 model has been trouble free the past 300 rounds.

I didn't read ALL the responses to the OP, but hope this helps and encourages you a bit.

Very nice guns, I carry my 2004 almost daily and shoot it about 25-50 rounds a month to stay in touch with it, the wife is now doing the same with the 2011 model. On any given shoot, we run a few mags through the gun just to make sure we're on the money with it.

My only complaint about Kahr and the PM9 is that the factory apparently can't keep the recoil springs straight...Wolf solved my issues with the older model, whereas Kahr was no help at all.

Other then that, very nice little pistols.

edit: I just read OldLincoln's thread above, and completely agree, run it wet, especially initially, I use FP-10 for this purpose.

[sierrajb]

Clean and shoot, clean and shoot. Keep it well lubed, TW25B and or some FP10 and don't shoot so much in one session. 50-75 rounds in a session is plenty, no doubt some fatigue is going to set in after that, the little gun does recoil a bit due to it's light weight.

I have two PM9's, one from 2004 and a 2011 model, both hiccuped a bit at first. The 2004 model broke in nicely after the first 250 rounds and the same exact thing with the second 2011 model.

The 2004 model has since run a couple of thousands rounds trouble free and the 2011 model has been trouble free the past 300 rounds.

I didn't read ALL the responses to the OP, but hope this helps and encourages you a bit.

Very nice guns, I carry my 2004 almost daily and shoot it about 25-50 rounds a month to stay in touch with it, the wife is now doing the same with the 2011 model. On any given shoot, we run a few mags through the gun just to make sure we're on the money with it.

My only complaint about Kahr and the PM9 is that the factory apparently can't keep the recoil springs straight...Wolf solved my issues with the older model, whereas Kahr was no help at all.

Other then that, very nice little pistols.

edit: I just read OldLincoln's thread above, and completely agree, run it wet, especially initially, I use FP-10 for this purpose.

Thanks, Jitterbug, for the continued encouragement and the wise advice that agrees with everyone else on this forum. As of date, my PM9 is officially "broken in" and I've cleaned it CORRECTLY three times in the five weeks I've owned it. I'll never make the mistake of keeping a dirty gun again!

My "original sin" with my PM9 reminds me of another stupid thing I did when I was 4 years old. Took my sister's "bobby pin" (remember those?) and stuck it in a wall socket. What a shocking revelation! Ask me if I respect electricity now?

My problems on the range that dreadful day was a result of my immaturity and lack of experience and knowledge. Thanks to the kind folk at KahrTalk, I'm learning a lot, and I've grown to respect and appreciate my PM9. Just hope I can have the same positive impact on the lives of other rookies me.

[Jitterbug]

Thanks! and it sounds like your getting there Sierra.

My 2004 PM9 has over 2000 + rounds through it, I seldom let it go more then 50-75 rounds without taking it down and giving it a good clean and lube and it's been a perfect little pocket gun for me. Much more preferable to a S&W 442 which I also carry occasionally, depending upon how tight my jeans pocket is, the 442 works better with the tighter pocket.

Hands down, no question, the PM9 is the superior pocket pistol in my mind.

More and more often and the older I get, I often carry the PM9 over a compact 1911 just because of ease of carry. I have quite a bit of confidence in my abilities with the PM9 and don't feel too under gunned with a quality 147 grain H.P. I generally use Gold Dots if I can find them.

I just skimmed the thread, but it sounds like your a new shooter, if so, may I recommend you get a larger 9mm some day as a range gun, my wife has a S&W 9c and it's been a great compliment to her "gun collection". It helps her to get extended range time without the recoil of the smaller PM9, which after 50 or so rounds starts to add up.

Lot's of good advice over here and some very knowledgeable folks.

Good choice on a small 9mm and best wishes with it!

[Rmruder]

I just bought my first Kahr, a PM9. I have quite a few other PD pistols, including several M&Ps. I have been using Hornady One Shot for most of my cleaning chores since it also provide a dry lube. I still use a little oil where directed as well. I haven't seen anyone mention a cleaner like this and was wondering if I shouldn't be using this on my PM9 for any reason.

[Rmruder]

I have only been through the break-in period so far of 200 using WWB and 25 rounds of Critical Defense. So far no issues. There is so much out there about cleaning and lube products with opinions on all sides......it seems to be one of those issues when there are so many opinions and vastly different "results" that there is no clear answer. I'm from the "simplest solution that works" camp. One thing for sure is that the One Shot is easy. I can spray it on the entire gun as it doesn't harm the polymer, seems to clean OK, and doesn't gum anything up.....it may not be the very best at cleaning, lubing and protecting, but I haven't seen any negative effects either. Since it's easy to use I tend to use it more often.

The other problem is the variations on the guns themselves. Just for the heck of it, after an initial cleaning with One Shot, I ran one of my M&P .40s for about 1500 rounds without cleaning it just to see how it performed. No issues! So was that just this gun? Maybe this gun just runs great no matter what...Since then I use Hornady One Shot to clean it, which it seemed to do good getting all the crud out after that many rounds, and have been using it on all my guns.

I understand the PM9 may be tighter to start with and need a little more breaking in initially, so it may be more sensitive to cleaning and lubing. I followed the recommendations on this forum for initial prep before shooting it. It was COVERED in oil when new so it got a good cleaning with One Shot, hand cycled 500-600 times as suggested, and the recommended parts polished a little first.

All guns have their unique characteristics and I expect different results and different maintenance requirements. Just like with my AR that I take extra care in cleaning more frequently same as my carry guns. It seems to be universally agreed this is the right thing to do. It also seems that when there is considerable disagreement on things, that facts and opinions are hard to separate. That's what I think is great about these forums where people that actually use the stuff everyday can share their experiences instead of just the manufacturers sales hype.

I appreciate the time that the forum members take to share their experiences to help out those of us that don't have the experience with a specific issue. You can learn something new every day!

[sierrajb]

I just skimmed the thread, but it sounds like your a new shooter...

Yes, Jitterbug, I am a total "newbie" to the core. Last October I got my first CHL to carry. A few months later a friend's mother sold me a "like new" Ruger SP101 .38 Special ONLY with a 3 inch barrel. SWEET GUN! I bought it for a whopping $250.

I occasionally carried that cannon in an Uncle Mike's "small of the back" IWB, but began searching for a smaller carry pistol with a bit more punch. Long story short...I now have a PM9 with 4 magazines, a Tagua OWB belt holster, and a Remora 3-in-1 4L series holster.

With the exception of a one USMCESQ, everyone has welcomed and treated me like royalty. I've already learned more in one month in this forum than I would in a full semester at college!

Said it before, and I'll say it again: People on Kahr Talk (esp. the Moderators) are extremely helpful, interesting, enlightening, AND many times...HUMOROUS! Thanks for joining the Kahr Team!

When it comes to shopping around for a larger 9mm, I'll give you a buzz. Thanks!

[Bawanna]

Boy I hear ya, sometimes when JohnH gets on one of his off the wall, laugh so hard you fall out of the chair stories I just cry, I'm laughing so hard.

What a cut up.

Sometimes wonder if that man has a serious side, I tell ya.

[OldLincoln]

You talking about the Professor again, Gilligan?

[jocko]

I have only been through the break-in period so far of 200 using WWB and 25 rounds of Critical Defense. So far no issues. There is so much out there about cleaning and lube products with opinions on all sides......it seems to be one of those issues when there are so many opinions and vastly different "results" that there is no clear answer. I'm from the "simplest solution that works" camp. One thing for sure is that the One Shot is easy. I can spray it on the entire gun as it doesn't harm the polymer, seems to clean OK, and doesn't gum anything up.....it may not be the very best at cleaning, lubing and protecting, but I haven't seen any negative effects either. Since it's easy to use I tend to use it more often.

The other problem is the variations on the guns themselves. Just for the heck of it, after an initial cleaning with One Shot, I ran one of my M&P .40s for about 1500 rounds without cleaning it just to see how it performed. No issues! So was that just this gun? Maybe this gun just runs great no matter what...Since then I use Hornady One Shot to clean it, which it seemed to do good getting all the crud out after that many rounds, and have been using it on all my guns.

I understand the PM9 may be tighter to start with and need a little more breaking in initially, so it may be more sensitive to cleaning and lubing. I followed the recommendations on this forum for initial prep before shooting it. It was COVERED in oil when new so it got a good cleaning with One Shot, hand cycled 500-600 times as suggested, and the recommended parts polished a little first.

All guns have their unique characteristics and I expect different results and different maintenance requirements. Just like with my AR that I take extra care in cleaning more frequently same as my carry guns. It seems to be universally agreed this is the right thing to do. It also seems that when there is considerable disagreement on things, that facts and opinions are hard to separate. That's what I think is great about these forums where people that actually use the stuff everyday can share their experiences instead of just the manufacturers sales hype.

I appreciate the time that the forum members take to share their experiences to help out those of us that don't have the experience with a specific issue. You can learn something new every day!

when one stops learning, normally he is DEAD.

[Rmruder]

Jocko, you're right about that and although it seems that I've come close a few times, at least so farI've still managed to avoid DEAD!