New recoil spring for cm9

[bonjorno2]

Got my replacement spring from kahr today and its a coil longer than the one that came with the gun originally.... I wonder... I couldn't even lock the slide to the rear when I reassembled the pistol with the 15 coil spring, so I put the 14 coil spring in the gun and called it a day.

[jocko]

well that is strange. as kahrs cm or pm recoil springs are either 13 or 15 coils, not 14 . I did count the shorter one in your photo and 14 it is. , did u shorten it or did it come that way. I have no doubt u could trim back that longer coil a quarter cliupo at a timne until the slide locks openb ok and you would be good to go. The 15 coil spring should be the right one and in tie it would take a pre=set like the one above to.
what does surprise me is tha tyou were able to get JUST THE OUTTER SPRING, as kahr only shows the complete assembly which IO is a rip off as all thaqt is needed is the outter spring. I had written to kahr aobut this a few months ago and suggested they offer obnly the outter springs (which they used to do) and I waqs told that the suggestion was valid and that they would see what cold be done. Trim off a quarter of the open coil and u willbe fine, although they should send the right springs that works without any mods being done to IMO. More than likely ur 14 coil spring could be an inhouse change to. hell who knows..

I do think for some reason on the newer kahrs that when is havinbg some break in issues, such as slide not lockinbg back it is all recoil spring related to in that it might just take some rounds down range to get that spring set right. Hand cycling willnot do a pre-set near likje shootinbg the gun as u well know.

[hoghunter]

Interesting. Keep in mind Kahr actually cut my CM9 recoil spring SHORTER in an attempt to solve the nosedive issues. I have yet to take it to the range to test but will on Sunday weather permitting and provide a report.

[jocko]

yup they sure did...

[bonjorno2]

jocko, they sent me the entire recoil assembly, i just left it out of the pic because i thought it would take away from the outter spring.. I bought my cm9 from buds and the only mod i made to it was the front night sight and that's it. Maybe I got a bad spring with the first assembly and that help contribute to the little nut/bolt coming off the innerspring upon shooting it. I will try to trim it down a tad until i can get it to lock open since they are supposed to have 15 coils or whatever they are called... If you recall my break in thread I mentioned that I had issues every so often with the slide NOT locking open when empty... makes me wonder

[bonjorno2]

hoghunter, sorry to hear about the nonsense with yours... i had issues with my first p380 and ended selling it after sending it back to them a few times.

[jocko]

jocko, they sent me the entire recoil assembly, i just left it out of the pic because i thought it would take away from the outter spring.. I bought my cm9 from buds and the only mod i made to it was the front night sight and that's it. Maybe I got a bad spring with the first assembly and that help contribute to the little nut/bolt coming off the innerspring upon shooting it. I will try to trim it down a tad until i can get it to lock open since they are supposed to have 15 coils or whatever they are called... If you recall my break in thread I mentioned that I had issues every so often with the slide locking open when empty... makes me wonder

SLIDE LOCKING OPEN WHEN EMPTY??? ain't they supposed to do that??

More than likely that little nut on the end was not locktited on asit should be. No doubt trimming down that coil will bring it back to working condition. I would also think if u could get that sucker in the slide OK that 50 rounds down range and it would cycle and lock back OK also, but being your original spring has 14 coils, maybe kahr has done a slight change. Hell who knows..

[bonjorno2]

yeah, i fixed it i meant to say not locking back.... lots on my mind tonight sorry

[JBarbaresi]

this is why i was wondering how many coils were on the spring in hoghunter's gun when he got it back. i wonder he originally had a spring with too many coils and they shortened it to be the correct length, or if his gun just needs a recoil spring slightly shorter for some reason.

if there is variation in the recoil springs coming from kahr it would be interesting to see a correlation between the number of coils on the guns experiencing malfunctions and failures vs. the ones running fine.

mine has 14 like the top on in your picture, i am at 900 rounds without a single problem...

[bonjorno2]

yeah, i had 0 ftf, fte, stove pipes ect... just the slide not locking back like it should... Maybe it was the spring or me idk time and rounds down range will tell, but i have my carry gun back now so I am glad for that.... Maybe i'll email Jay and ask him if he knows.

[hoghunter]

this is why i was wondering how many coils were on the spring in hoghunter's gun when he got it back. i wonder he originally had a spring with too many coils and they shortened it to be the correct length, or if his gun just needs a recoil spring slightly shorter for some reason.

if there is variation in the recoil springs coming from kahr it would be interesting to see a correlation between the number of coils on the guns experiencing malfunctions and failures vs. the ones running fine.

mine has 14 like the top on in your picture, i am at 900 rounds without a single problem...

JB,
I just took the recoil spring out. I now have 12 coils and one right up against the spring stop so that may count as 13 (depending on how you count it I guess). This CM9 will be on the range at 9am Saturday (unless rain) so I will be sure to post a report.

[JBarbaresi]

JB,
I just took the recoil spring out. I now have 12 coils and one right up against the spring stop so that may count as 13 (depending on how you count it I guess). This CM9 will be on the range at 9am Saturday (unless rain) so I will be sure to post a report.

going by the picture posted by the OP, the top spring having 14 coils and the bottom having 15, can you figure out if you have 13 or 12? you may have like 12.5 or 13.5 if they snipped off half a coil or something like that. either way i guess its hard to tell what they did if we don't know how many coils you had prior, especially when it appears there are more than one version available. i hope your gun works if you get to shoot it tomorrow.

[bonjorno2]

yeah i wonder what is up with the springs coils being different, but I am sticking with my 14 coil spring for now.

[Michael W.]

yeah i wonder what is up with the springs coils being different, but I am sticking with my 14 coil spring for now.

I had the same thing happen when I first got my PM45.

The little retention nut on the end of the RSA work itself loose
and shot off.

Kahr sent me a new assembly but the spring was a couple of coils
longer for some reason. I mean I could not install it in
the gun.

I called Kahr and they said it was likely that the spring was sized for
a P45 or TP45. I'm guessing its likely that they buy the springs all the
same size for a given caliber and cut them down in final assembly
of the gun.

At any rate, like you I just put my old spring on the new RSA and walla,
I was up and running. Nothing to lose any sleep over.

M-

[Steeltoes]

Interesting. Keep in mind Kahr actually cut my CM9 recoil spring SHORTER in an attempt to solve the nosedive issues. I have yet to take it to the range to test but will on Sunday weather permitting and provide a report.

How did that work for you, did you get to the range?

[Benaiah]

Anyone ever use the Wolf recoil spring for the PM9?

[wyntrout]

I've had one for a year, but haven't used it, yet. It came with a striker spring, too. I just ordered a bunch of springs from Wolff... all kinds of stuff for spares. They didn't have a P40 recoil spring, but I ordered a K40 one to compare with the original. They say it's NOT for polymer pistols, though.

The magazine springs for 6-7 round .40 mags and 8-round 9mm mags are the same, so I bought a 10-pack of those. I also got a 3-pack of 5-lb striker springs to try. I looked and looked for stuff to add to my order, but they still don't cover all of the Kahr pistols... and NO .380 or .45 springs.

I did figure out which one I needed for my Springfield Champion and ordered one of those... 22lb. I had bought a 1911 spring in an order from CDNN, I believe, for $2 or so... just to have something to cut to size if needed.

Just rambling on.... Building up some stocks of spare stuff. I don't throw anything away that might be of some kind of use... the problem comes when I can't remember where I put it!!:rolleyes:

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

I've had one for a year, but haven't used it, yet. It came with a striker spring, too. I just ordered a bunch of springs from Wolff... all kinds of stuff for spares. They didn't have a P40 recoil spring, but I ordered a K40 one to compare with the original. They say it's NOT for polymer pistols, though....
Wynn:)
Wynn,
I think that "NOT for polymer pistols" thing only applies to the MK9/MK40 recoil springs, guide rod sets, and springs/guide rod set combo.
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

Thanks, Greg. I was just going to compare them and be cautious about any "trimming" when the time comes. I don't think most people realize the difference in the open and closed ends of the springs. The closed end is a slightly smaller diameter to grip the guide rod. If this isn't against the flared end of the guide rod, it changes the whole dynamics of the recoil system.

When the nut flew off the end of my PM45 and Kahr sent me a whole new assembly, I used the old outer spring because it only had a few hundred rounds use. The new one is longer and I'll compare and adjust the new one when I need it.

I can't believe that Wolff still hasn't expanded their coverage of the Kahr pistols to include the .380 and .45's. I asked them about that several times.

Wynn:)

[gb6491]

...
I can't believe that Wolff still hasn't expanded their coverage of the Kahr pistols to include the .380 and .45's. I asked them about that several times.

Wynn:)
I agree! I wonder if this is the result of a business agreement between them and Kahr?

BTW, does your Champion use a full length guide rod? If so and it's .250" diameter, you might want to check out ISMI's flat wire spring:
http://www.ismi-gunsprings.com/
I buy mine here: http://www.egwguns.com/recoil-springs/ismi-flat-wire-recoil-springs/
Regards,
Greg

[wyntrout]

My S.A. Champion has a 4" barrel and uses a single-piece guide rod with a 22-lb spring.
I have one coming from Wolff. I don't know if it will require alteration, though.

Wynn:)

[Russ]

I have seen pictures on the web comparing older PM9s with newer models. The newer model is slightly longer where the recoil spring protrudes from the poly frame just below the barrel. Could that explain the longer recoil spring ? The article even mentioned the design change added a little weight.

[Scoundrel]

I just got my replacement CM9 recoil spring today.

Not only is it considerably longer (because it has not settled in yet), but it also has more steel. Notice the coil runs around another half-turn.

When I assembled it, I found that there seems to be a spot where the slide "catches" and I have to force/wiggle it past that point during assembly.

Once it is assembled, the slide is stiffer than I am used to, and will not lock back. I'll let it "set" overnight in the CM9, maybe rack it a few dozen times, and then see if it will lock back. If not, I will probably clip the coil to the same spot as the old one and try again.

I dunno, I really like my Kahr, but I've been seeing a lot of problems with Kahr screwing things like this up. A replacement spring should just fit right into a perfectly working CM9 without any issues.

P.S. I put the old recoil assembly/spring back in and everything was peachy. Put new one back again, no slide lock.

http://bruteforcetech.com/misc/KahrSpring.jpg

[bonjorno2]

interesting, what was going on with your first recoil assembly?

[Scoundrel]

interesting, what was going on with your first recoil assembly?

I have exceeded 2,000 rounds through it and bought another one to have on hand for eventual replacement. Of course I wanted to check out the new one, to make sure it works OK before I need it.

[bonjorno2]

2000 rds thru the cm9, wow... I have a feeling i might not get to that number for a long time... I shoot little carry often.

[Scoundrel]

2000 rds thru the cm9, wow... I have a feeling i might not get to that number for a long time... I shoot little carry often.

I had a lot of work to do on hitting my targets, getting good groups, learning how the CM9 likes to be treated, figuring out WTF was going on with nosedives in the 7rd magazine, etc.

And playing.

[hoghunter]

This reminds me that I need to measure and count the loops on my reworked recoil spring. Since I got the CM9 back from Kahr it has worked great! all they did was cut the recoil spring shorter, so I need to measure now before it gets broke in so when I need to order a new recoil in about 1,500 rounds I know where to cut it.

[TucsonMTB]

Once it is assembled, the slide is stiffer than I am used to, and will not lock back. I'll let it "set" overnight in the CM9, maybe rack it a few dozen times, and then see if it will lock back. If not, I will probably clip the coil to the same spot as the old one and try again.

I dunno, I really like my Kahr, but I've been seeing a lot of problems with Kahr screwing things like this up. A replacement spring should just fit right into a perfectly working CM9 without any issues.

P.S. I put the old recoil assembly/spring back in and everything was peachy. Put new one back again, no slide lock.

http://bruteforcetech.com/misc/KahrSpring.jpg
Yeah, I had a similar experience with my PM40 when it came back from Kahr warranty service with a new recoil assembly.

Mine didn't become easy (possible?) to lock back by hand until after shooting a few mags worth of ammo. If you put in an empty magazine and really pull back on the slide, it should lock even before shooting. Otherwise, clipping to match the number of complete coils is probably a good idea.

I share your astonishment that Kahr doesn't seem to understand this kind of thing. They are, after all, a gun manufacturer. :eek:

[JFootin]

I just got my replacement CM9 recoil spring today.

Not only is it considerably longer (because it has not settled in yet), but it also has more steel. Notice the coil runs around another half-turn.

When I assembled it, I found that there seems to be a spot where the slide "catches" and I have to force/wiggle it past that point during assembly.

Once it is assembled, the slide is stiffer than I am used to, and will not lock back. I'll let it "set" overnight in the CM9, maybe rack it a few dozen times, and then see if it will lock back. If not, I will probably clip the coil to the same spot as the old one and try again.

I dunno, I really like my Kahr, but I've been seeing a lot of problems with Kahr screwing things like this up. A replacement spring should just fit right into a perfectly working CM9 without any issues.

P.S. I put the old recoil assembly/spring back in and everything was peachy. Put new one back again, no slide lock.

http://bruteforcetech.com/misc/KahrSpring.jpg

I am counting 14 1/2 loops on the old spring and 15 on the new one. You should email Kahr CS with this pic and ask them what's up. I'd like to know. :cool:

[Scoundrel]

I am counting 14 1/2 loops on the old spring and 15 on the new one. You should email Kahr CS with this pic and ask them what's up. I'd like to know. :cool:

I could e-mail Kahr and bust their balls about it (politely), but I am sure they get enough of that from other people, and I dunno if my complaint(?) would get to the ears of the people who matter.

So, emboldened by the accounts of others who have worked this issue before me, I went ahead and chopped the spring this morning. I rotated both springs side by side until the closed end was at the same angle, then marked the spring with more coils at the appropriate spot, and hit it with a wire cutter.

The result is that the weird "catch" I was feeling in the slide when assembling it is gone, and I can lock back the slide OK when it is assembled now. It still feels stiffer than the old spring, but I think that is perfectly normal. It needs to be broken in.

So I'm off to the range to make sure it really works right, and break it in.

Oh, and here's a new pic:

http://bruteforcetech.com/misc/kahrspring2.jpg

Note: When cutting the spring, I accidentally bent it, and the coil was "out of round", which looked funny but did not seem to be a problem. I tried to correct that anyway, over-corrected, and it got in the way of the guide rod, preventing it from coming out the front of the slide properly. I bent it again, and the coil now follows a perfectly round shape and everything seems to work. Springs are fiddly things, and I'll rest easier once I have another 100 rounds through it.

[jocko]

kibnda looks from some of the reports that 14 coils does the trick. I would say if u have a 15 coils spr9ng andit won't lock open cut a half coil off first and retest, go slowly, as u know u can't glue it back on... Probalby which makes no sense if one managed to get in the 15 coil spring and went out and shot it a 100 rounds that slide would lock open with no problem.

[Scoundrel]

Yeah, I wondered about that. It's possible that leaving the extra 1/2 coil in there might have worked OK after I'd put 100 rounds through it, but I preferred to make it work "out of the box" rather than wait for 100 rounds before I got proper slide lock.

I'll wait to report anything more until I've been to the range with the new spring. Probably this evening.

[jocko]

probably either way would have made no differencein over all operation and reliability. Kahr needs to get this sh-t right though. I guess os older PM9 owners with the blunt noxe version, u see we never have these issues, as the old style takes a 13 coil outter spring and I can buy um all day long from wolffs without buyinbg the complete recoil assembly. Yes life is good for us "old version blunt nose, IMO best PM9 ever made guns..

course I am prejudice:blah: I don't like illegals either..

[Steeltoes]

I'd like to see Kahr use a closed ended spring on both end a spring that was specifically made for the model...instead of a chuck of spring cut off to whatever dimension works...other manufacturers are on track...just saying :blah:

[Scoundrel]

I'd like to see Kahr use a closed ended spring on both end a spring that was specifically made for the model...instead of a chuck of spring cut off to whatever dimension works...other manufacturers are on track...just saying :blah:

That would increase manufacturing costs. Lower mfg cost is what brought the price down in the CM9. I can live with making sure my spring fits once in a while.

Speaking of that, I went to the range and fired 100 rounds with my new spring. The second shot (first one out of the magazine) took a nose dive, and I was thinking "aw, crap" - but then I didn't have any other problems.

I cannot be 100% sure that the nosedive was not a result of the bullet not being shoved all of the way to the back of the magazine. I had, after all, been fiddling with the gun a lot the night before, removing and re-inserting the magazine and such.

So now I'll take this new spring out, clean it, lube it, and put it in a ziploc baggie for later use. I'll keep using the original spring until I have reason to change it out.

[wyntrout]

The closed end grips the guide rod and the other end must be large enough to NOT BIND on that end of the guide rod... by design and on purpose.

Wynn:)

[Steeltoes]

So manufacturing cost is the issue whether or not they use a closed end or a just a chunk of spring....OK I'll buy that...so charge $1 more the spring...

Glock has been using that technology since the mid 80's lol...I'd say that is tried and proven :rolleyes:

[JBarbaresi]

So manufacturing cost is the issue whether or not they use a closed end or a just a chunk of spring....OK I'll buy that...so charge $1 more the spring...

Glock has been using that technology since the mid 80's lol...I'd say that is tried and proven :rolleyes:

is the question whether to use a spring with closed ends on both sides or to use a captured guide rod where the spring is not separate from the guide rod like on a glock?

the 1911 platform is still primarily using uncaptured springs, and they've been around for 100 years that way. not trying to bash on glock because i'm mostly a glock guy (at least was until i purchased the cm9) but both versions of spring/guide rod setup have been proven over the years. there's not wrong answer, until you start getting springs with different lengths and coils, and that is an issue.

[bonjorno2]

Update:

took the cm9 out and shot a box of ammo with the new recoil assembly without issues. I love this little 9!