Ran into a bit of trouble today

[Scoundrel]

I was doing a deposit at an ATM today. The ATM is inside a Safeway, and there is a sign about 15 feet from the ATM that says "ATM line starts here."

Not long after I started, I became aware of a man standing close behind me. I could feel his breath on the back of my neck. I half-turned and gave him the stink-eye for a second, which didn't seem to clue him in. When I finished, I turned to face him, indicated the sign, and said "the line starts over there" (by then there were a couple more people standing behind the sign). I turned and started walking away. He said something to my back, and I heard his voice, but could not make out the words. I kept walking. I stopped at the customer service counter to buy some lottery tickets, which gave him time to do his ATM business and catch up with me at the front door.

I heard his voice behind me again, and this time I clearly heard "Hey, Jackass." I should have kept walking. Of course nobody would be referring to me as Jackass, so he couldn't have been talking to me. But I stopped. He got around in front of me (between me and my car) and started talking in an annoyed voice about how he was in fact the next in line (he had completely missed the point).

At that moment, I should have either made a dismissive grunt and sidestepped around him, or smiled at him and explained that I get uncomfortable when I feel that people are too close behind me at the ATM, in a self-deprecating sort of way. But that's not what I did.

Instead, I matched his tone of voice and body language and told him that there is such a thing as personal space, and that some people don't like it when others violate it, particularly during an ATM transaction, and that he had violated my personal space (note the difference in the wording, and where it places the fault).

Things got more heated from there, with him telling me that I had a problem, me telling him to get out of my personal space right now, etc.

I am thankful that although the testosterone was thick enough to be scented upon the air, he did in fact get out from between me and my car, and we parted ways, still hurling angry words at each other, this time with a row of cars between us, until we both got into our cars. We exited the parking lot in different directions.

The good news is that this ended without coming anywhere near the point at which I would have had to make a choice about deploying a defensive weapon.

The altercation brought several points home to me:

1. I should have remained completely calm, despite the swarthy ugly dude getting in my personal space twice and being clueless. If this had escalated, witnesses would have reported hostility on both sides, and that would not have gone well for me in the end.

2. I did not once think of the pepper spray hanging on my keychain, tucked into my belt under my jacket. My mind was on something else attached to my belt. I should have kept both options in mind for possible deployment.

3. A friend of mine, who shall remain nameless, calls his CCW a "politeness enforcer". He clarifies this by saying that the CCW forces him to remain polite in cases where he might not otherwise do so, because he knows how important it is to avoid using it. Politeness is a great deterrent most of the time.

Still, I was glad I had it on me. You never know when the swarthy ugly dude is going to turn out to be off his rocker completely, with a particular psychotic trigger about being told that he's not in line correctly.

[OldLincoln]

Wow, thanks for the story. As I read it I was thinking "Meet me out behind the gym after school." That is until I read your should haves, which were right on. These days and probably forever, you cannot predict another's actions. You may influence them by yours but even still they are unpredictable. What may be very reasonable to you and me is completely foreign to others.

You know how it's always the second guy in a fight that gets blamed? That holds true for self defense also. You would have been seen as the aggressor in your situation as he simply stood immediately behind you. You spoke to him first and soon you both escalated it, but the witnesses standing behind you both would say you turned and said something to him. Not good for staying out of jail.

That is why I follow your friends position of my gun being a "politeness enforcer" at least of my actions. Even when faced with aggressive rudeness, I tend to chuckle, not get angry.

Once a burly tough guy decided to tell me off and turning my back on him would have been the worse thing to do so I just looked at him and listened intently not saying a word. Finally he ran down, turned and walked away. When anger is not responded in kind, aggressors often cool off and the crises avoided.

[slick slidestop]

Your friend is a wise man. Politeness enforcer is likely to ensure a peaceful outcome.

For me it's one extreme or the other. I usually either ignore them or go totally off like a maniac. You should see there face when I get turrets syndrome....it totally confuses them:eek:

[sharpetop]

"An armed society is a polite society!" I don't recall who coined the phrase but it holds true.

[mr surveyor]

avoidance first, de-escalate if necessary, and suck it up and walk away.

never exchange unpoliteness with same and expect to end the event as a hero with your handgun.

unless there was a huge disparity of force, or the other guy was visibly armed and threatening, had you even displayed your sidearm over a pushing match jail might have been in your immediate future.

If you're going to go armed, avoid conflict.


jmo

surv

[wyntrout]

Thanks for sharing your encounter. Been there and sort of done that, too. I had to really think about the consequences and even though I was in the right and the guy was most definitely wrong, I was not law Enforcement and things could only get out of hand, with me getting in really big trouble since I was carrying a concealed weapon(legally). That was one of the worst adrenaline surges I've ever had... really shaking and mad... I could really feel the adrenaline screwing me up big time!

Wynn:)

[wyntrout]

Had I been trained in self defense like Chuck Norris, I would have taken him up on his offer to "kick my ass" for not minding my own f'ing business. He was speeding in a park and when I reminded him about children and pets in the park, I added "especially with that", indicating the open bottle of beer in his lap.
It was hard to just say "I don't think so" and turn and walk away with my dog, but I could risk getting into an altercation and shooting him! He was around 30 years younger and in really good shape.

Wynn:)

[Scoundrel]

Wow, thanks for the story. As I read it I was thinking "Meet me out behind the gym after school."

Yeah, it was pretty juvenile. Do we ever truly grow up? It seems like my dad mellowed out for a few years, but then another phenomenon kicks in. After a certain age (and I am sure it varies), people seem to lose what tact and restraint they have gained through the years. My dad is 71 now, and I am the mediator when we all go ATV riding and he has disagreements with my friends.



That is until I read your should haves, which were right on.

I need to work more on turning my "should have dones" into my "have dones". I'm not as bad as Anton 'The Pro' Protopov in the 2011 movie "The Big Bang" ("Sometimes I just... ...react")

http://harvest.canadaeast.com/image.php?id=703800&size=500x0

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307873/, but I did respond to the heat of the moment instead of keeping my head on straight.



Once a burly tough guy decided to tell me off and turning my back on him would have been the worse thing to do so I just looked at him and listened intently not saying a word. Finally he ran down, turned and walked away. When anger is not responded in kind, aggressors often cool off and the crises avoided.

This reminds me of a motorcycle trip I took in 2002. I was on Hwy 2 headed East somewhere in the mountains in the lower portion of the Idaho panhandle. I came upon a sign that made me VERY happy. Here is a photo of it:

http://bruteforcetech.com/travel/2002-06_Motorcycle%20Trip/windingroad1.jpg

In Washington and Idaho, there are yellow warning signs on the highways that have a recommended speed for the curves in the road. These recommended speeds seem to be calibrated for bus-shaped motorhomes towing SUVs. The only time I follow those suggested speeds is when I am driving a 9,000 lb motorhome, towing 4,000 lbs of trailer and ATVs behind it. On a motorcycle, I tend to hit those curves at about 15mph above the suggested speed.

On this day, I was feeling particularly frisky, and was hitting those curves at about 20mph over the suggested speed.

I started passing some signs indicating road construction ahead. the really annoying thing about these road construction signs is that they put five or six of them out there, sometimes with a mile between them, and often the signs are left in place when there is no work currently being done. I noted the signs, but maintained my speed.

I rounded a particularly sharp curve at speed with the bike bent way over, and then JUST after the curve straightened up, RIGHT THERE was the flagger and the road work being done. I straightened the bike up and braked hard. I could have dropped most of my momentum and crawled up to the flagger, but I chose instead to make it a longer, smoother deceleration, bringing me to a smooth stop about 10 feet from the flagger.

He was not amused.

The guy looked like a puffer fish and turned beet red. He started screaming at me about whether I saw the damn signs, or what. At first I tried to explain that I was in complete control, but it is difficult to make oneself heard when wearing a full helmet with a chin bar, and I'm sure he was not receptive to whatever I was saying anyway. When he started yelling about how he could call the State Patrol on his radio and have me arrested, I remembered a scene from Star Trek, in which Worf (Klingon Starfleet Officer) was being yelled at by Picard, who was clearly off his rocker, to do something bad. Everyone decided this was a good mutiny moment. Worf folded his arms and stared at a fixed point about a foot above Picard's left shoulder and said nothing.

http://putitinh.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/worf-yonger.jpg?w=250&h=305

So that's what I did. Eventually, the puffer fish wound himself down, stared angrily at me for a few seconds, and then flipped his little Slow/Stop sign to "Slow". I put the bike in gear and drove slowly on through the construction zone. I took it easy for the next 30 miles or so, but no State Patrol officer materialized.

[O'Dell]

"An armed society is a polite society!" I don't recall who coined the phrase but it holds true.

Robert Heinlein. One of my favorite science fiction writers when I was a kid. He was also a gun enthusiast. Along with this one Heinlein also coined "There's no such thing as a free lunch" in one of his novels.

[O'Dell]

[QUOTE
This reminds me of a motorcycle trip I took in 2002. I was on Hwy 2 headed East somewhere in the mountains in the lower portion of the Idaho panhandle. I came upon a sign that made me VERY happy. Here is a photo of it:



[/QUOTE]

Nice road. I'd like to take my bike up there.

[wyntrout]

Heinlein was my favorite author, of many. My latest since Heinlein died is David Weber. I love everything he's written or helped write, especially the Honor Harrington series and parallel series.

In 1965 I borrowed a buddy's CL250 Honda and rode down Highway 1 to Big Sur from Monterey, CA, when I was learning Arabic at the Defense Language Institute in 1965... an Army installation. That's one of those top 10 drives. Ah the memories there... 18 and 19 years of age... too young to drink, but did buy my first handgun and shoot it in the park at the top of the hill. Avoided arrest by helping an officer out of a ditch when we were leaving. He was up there looking for me and my buddy... wasn't out in the country.:rolleyes: We got restricted to the post for a month or something when he reported us to the Company Commander.

That year I went to the first Laguna Seca Race... saw James Bond's movie car... and the new Chapparal racing for the first time, too.

The most fun I had driving was returning from Italy to Germany through the Alps in my '82 BMW 323i... 6-cylinder 2305cc... hardly any traffic and no ABS then, so had some "fun".

Most of my fun now is when we go to Illinois and I push my van through the mountains around Chattanooga at 15-20 over the "recommended" speed... AWD and ABS... love the pulling AND pushing drive. Also, have some fun going to SW Colorado... lots of mountains and curves, but have to watch for deer, Elk, bears, mountain lions, etc... haven't seen a bear in the wild, yet... which is fine with me.

Wynn:)

[ripley16]

avoidance first, de-escalate if necessary, and suck it up and walk away.


Sage advice

[sas PM9]

I was doing a deposit at an ATM today. The ATM is inside a Safeway, and there is a sign about 15 feet from the ATM that says "ATM line starts here."

Not long after I started, I became aware of a man standing close behind me. I could feel his breath on the back of my neck. I half-turned and gave him the stink-eye for a second, which didn't seem to clue him in. When I finished, I turned to face him, indicated the sign, and said "the line starts over there" (by then there were a couple more people standing behind the sign). I turned and started walking away. He said something to my back, and I heard his voice, but could not make out the words. I kept walking. I stopped at the customer service counter to buy some lottery tickets, which gave him time to do his ATM business and catch up with me at the front door.

I heard his voice behind me again, and this time I clearly heard "Hey, Jackass." I should have kept walking. Of course nobody would be referring to me as Jackass, so he couldn't have been talking to me. But I stopped. He got around in front of me (between me and my car) and started talking in an annoyed voice about how he was in fact the next in line (he had completely missed the point).

At that moment, I should have either made a dismissive grunt and sidestepped around him, or smiled at him and explained that I get uncomfortable when I feel that people are too close behind me at the ATM, in a self-deprecating sort of way. But that's not what I did.

Instead, I matched his tone of voice and body language and told him that there is such a thing as personal space, and that some people don't like it when others violate it, particularly during an ATM transaction, and that he had violated my personal space (note the difference in the wording, and where it places the fault).

Things got more heated from there, with him telling me that I had a problem, me telling him to get out of my personal space right now, etc.

I am thankful that although the testosterone was thick enough to be scented upon the air, he did in fact get out from between me and my car, and we parted ways, still hurling angry words at each other, this time with a row of cars between us, until we both got into our cars. We exited the parking lot in different directions.

The good news is that this ended without coming anywhere near the point at which I would have had to make a choice about deploying a defensive weapon.

The altercation brought several points home to me:

1. I should have remained completely calm, despite the swarthy ugly dude getting in my personal space twice and being clueless. If this had escalated, witnesses would have reported hostility on both sides, and that would not have gone well for me in the end.

2. I did not once think of the pepper spray hanging on my keychain, tucked into my belt under my jacket. My mind was on something else attached to my belt. I should have kept both options in mind for possible deployment.

3. A friend of mine, who shall remain nameless, calls his CCW a "politeness enforcer". He clarifies this by saying that the CCW forces him to remain polite in cases where he might not otherwise do so, because he knows how important it is to avoid using it. Politeness is a great deterrent most of the time.

Still, I was glad I had it on me. You never know when the swarthy ugly dude is going to turn out to be off his rocker completely, with a particular psychotic trigger about being told that he's not in line correctly.



Scoundrel:

Yes, always observe #3.

-steve

[HDoc]

"An armed society is a polite society!" I don't recall who coined the phrase but it holds true.

Robert A. Heinlein

[Chuck54]

I might have just ended my transaction and let the D.A. go ahead of me.

[ripley16]

A little off topic but;
The potential for bad things to happen is the reason I've gone to an almost cashless lifestyle and do not use ATMs. Of course I have cash on me and need it some times, but I carry very little and resupply from a stash obtained from a bank teller every few months during routine banking. Probably 99% of my purchases are cashless, (I use credit card with a rebate benefit). I realize not every lifestyle would be able to go "cashless", but IMHO, ATMs can become magnets for muggers, especially in certain areas.

[OldLincoln]

Every once in a while I miss the old, less careful, days. I love your bike Scoundrel. It shows what I might have done in those days, bags strapped down, sleep under the stars, ride hard but enjoy the scenery. I only rode friends bikes but let them borrow my car also, so it worked out.

[Scoundrel]

Not really off topic.
I actually had $18 cash on me. I was depositing business checks. But a mugger might not know that.

[Tilos]

Yes, what sharpetop said, but we're not an armed society, and when some dirtbag sizes up this geezer and starts chest poking, he will be shot.

Another saying I like better:
Don't pick a fight with an old man, they don't fight, just shoot.
Tilos

[OldLincoln]

This is off topic but as they say in court, you opened the door. I watched with fascination a documentary called "Catch me if you can" the other night. A security expert took us through the disappearing experience as if somebody (govt) was out to find you. The short of it is that it's about impossible to do it successfully and it's tougher every day as security cameras and recognition software improve. Like he said tho, normal lawful folks need not be concerned, but if the feds are after you, you have your work cut out.

[Scoundrel]

Every once in a while I miss the old, less careful, days. I love your bike Scoundrel. It shows what I might have done in those days, bags strapped down, sleep under the stars, ride hard but enjoy the scenery. I only rode friends bikes but let them borrow my car also, so it worked out.

Thanks! It was a good bike, but not a great bike. The 1998 Honda Nighthawk 750 was smooth and comfortable to ride, but it was geared too low, as it was designed primarily for inter-city travel. Thus I found, even on short highway trips, that I kept trying to find one more gear to get the RPMs down.

I've been through a couple of different bikes since then, trying to find my sweet spot.

I bought a Honda ST1300 (http://images04.olx.com/ui/8/19/46/1281611784_113601346_2-2004-Honda-ST1300-Forreston-1281611784.jpg) which got me lots of attention, had WAY too much power, and upon which I went the fastest on the road that I have ever gone. I don't remember the exact speed now, I want to say 175 but am not sure. I started to run out of road. But, it had a few problems, and it didn't turn out to be any more comfortable for long trips than the 750, though its RPMs certainly were low enough. The ergonomics were bad, the engine blasted a lot of heat at me, and the "pocket of still air" that the windshield created (and the advertising makes such a big deal about) had a tendency to trap diesel exhaust and keep it with me for miles and miles. Plus, the thing was super heavy, and good luck backing it up even a small slope to get out of a parking spot.

I traded it in for a Suzuki SV650 (http://www.suzuki-bikes.com/images/bikes/2005/suzuki-sv650.jpg), which is a very nimble, powerful and modern bike, but again, not good for highway trips. I can't say that there was anything specifically bad about it other than the ergonomics, but it sat in my shed and was not ridden for years. So I eventually sold it.
Note: When I traded in the ST1300 for the SV650, the dealer wrote me a check for about $5k. It was the first time they had ever paid money out for a trade-in deal. Everett Powersports is a good dealer.

These days, I seem to like scooters. They're more comfortable to drive, and the low center of gravity is awesome. My current ride is a 2008 Kymco XcitingR (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1d1OMhUPzz8/Spfp9ZYZ-XI/AAAAAAAAB5A/Eh0JKRfQRiQ/s400/2009+Kymco+Xciting+500+Ri+.jpg).

One day, I may get the itch for another long motorcycle trip. Then I might look at the Honda SilverWing, which is very similar to the XCitingR only bigger. But for now, I use the motorhome to do the long trips, usually with ATVs and sometimes the scooter on the back.


Doing the "strap a tent and sleeping bag to the bike and just go" thing seems like a younger man's endeavor to me now, or something for an older man who is tough as nails and has no obligations at home. Once in a while I want to be that person, but I cannot deny the comforts of not being that way.

[OldLincoln]

Doing the "strap a tent and sleeping bag to the bike and just go" thing seems like a younger man's endeavor to me now, or something for an older man who is tough as nails and has no obligations at home. Once in a while I want to be that person, but I cannot deny the comforts of not being that way.
Yeah, I tell my buddy that for me a Holiday Inn is a rough as I go. He's my age, but it's harder for him to let his youth go.

[JohnInFlorida]

Wynn - If you like Heinlein and Weber, try this one ...
Freehold
by Michael Z. Williamson
available as a free online download in a variety of formats @

http://www.baen.com/library/authors.asp

[beatlesfan]

I'm currently reading Heinlein. Loving it so far.

Sent from Tapatalk

[wyntrout]

Wynn - If you like Heinlein and Weber, try this one ...
Freehold
by Michael Z. Williamson
available as a free online download in a variety of formats @

http://www.baen.com/library/authors.asp

I read a LOT of Baen books and I've read all of MZW except the older ones... just got The Scope of Justice (2004), though it's not high in my queue right now. I like the concept of a planet selling its military weapons to the CITIZENS who form its "militia"... ALL weapons, which comes in handy later when the U.N. decides the planet needs to come under their control.

Wynn:D

[OldLincoln]

I just went through several free book listings at Baen and all I saw were the world being taken over, dragons, sorcery and stuff. Do they have any modern day mysteries or factual fiction type military books?

[JohnInFlorida]

As far as I know, Baen is strictly SF & Fantasy publisher ...


from their banner:
"Baen Books. The best in Science Fiction and Fantasy publishing."

[wyntrout]

I would guess that at least 85% of my 100's of books... paperbacks and hard covers(can't wait) have the Baen logo on the spine. I do read military and techno-thrillers, too. I've been an avid reader since learning how to read at age 6. That's something that kids miss out on these days... imagination & empathy... experiencing adventures with your vivid imagination in FIRST PERSON... as a character in the book. Too many kids sit around with their electronic games blowing away anything and everyone... promoting their self-esteem... that they are the center of the universe! That's real preparation for dealing with others or seeing things from anyone else's perspective.

I don't think it made me any less manly when I was Nancy Drew solving a mystery, or Nurse Bartlet(?), or the Hardy Boys, and others I read about in those very young years, but I got into science fiction very early and learned quite a bit, as a lot of the early writers were sticklers for science facts, as well as fiction... HG Wells, Edgar Rice Burroughs(Tarzan and John Carter), Jules Verne, and Robert Heinlein... and Andre Norton... didn't know she was a woman... didn't care... great writer!

Wynn:)

[OldLincoln]

I'm fortunate to have a BIL close by who is a reader. He keeps pushing off boxes of fine novels on me and I read & return them. I've gone through most of his collection and tired a bit of the murder mysteries. I dropped off stuff at the local Salvation Army store and took a look around for the first time a few weeks ago. Bought a dozen paper backs and 6 or 7 hard backs for $2. Went back for more the other day. With them so cheap I'm buying authors I don't know about and just finished a really terrific one by Larry Bond called "Red Phoenix".

I like realistic military and spy action, with some not so realistic tossed in such as Clive Cussler's "Oregon Series". I do like some science fiction, but not a fan of fantasy with vampires, dragons and stuff.

[wyntrout]

Red Phoenix is terrific. I think that Clancy helped him with that one. Larry Bond is a favorite, too, not as prolific as some, though.

Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

I would guess that at least 85% of my 100's of books... paperbacks and hard covers(can't wait) have the Baen logo on the spine. I do read military and techno-thrillers, too. I've been an avid reader since learning how to read at age 6. That's something that kids miss out on these days... imagination & empathy... experiencing adventures with your vivid imagination in FIRST PERSON... as a character in the book. Too many kids sit around with their electronic games blowing away anything and everyone... promoting their self-esteem... that they are the center of the universe! That's real preparation for dealing with others or seeing things from anyone else's perspective.

I don't think it made me any less manly when I was Nancy Drew solving a mystery, or Nurse Bartlet(?), or the Hardy Boys, and others I read about in those very young years, but I got into science fiction very early and learned quite a bit, as a lot of the early writers were sticklers for science facts, as well as fiction... HG Wells, Edgar Rice Burroughs(Tarzan and John Carter), Jules Verne, and Robert Heinlein... and Andre Norton... didn't know she was a woman... didn't care... great writer!

Wynn:)

I was reading books before I started school thanks to a very wise mother. At one time I had every Hardy Boys book ever written. If I remember correctly, they were 89 cents and I saved for them. I'll admit that I read the Nancy Drew books too because I was desperate for reading material, but I never collected them. Heinlein, Clark, and Asimov were on my short list too. Question! Who wrote "Pebbles in the Sky"? Was that Heinlein? I've been trying to remember for a long time. I'm pretty sure "Seetee Ship" [sp?] was one of his.

Now, I also read techno's and military, but they don't write them fast enough. Therefore, I read a lot of mysteries, especially legal ones, and anything that looks remotely interesting, like Physics, math, and cosmology.

[wyntrout]

That was Asimov... an early favorite, also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_in_the_Sky

The ? Ship... not sure, but Anne McCaffrey wrote a series of novels about sentient spaceships... real AI-controlled by a real human brain rescued from a dying body.

Wynn:)

[Scoundrel]

That was Asimov... an early favorite, also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_in_the_Sky

The ? Ship... not sure, but Anne McCaffrey wrote a series of novels about sentient spaceships... real AI-controlled by a real human brain rescued from a dying body.

Wynn:)

Threadjack! Threadjack! :)

"The Ship Who Sang" started that series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_McCaffrey
Search for "The Brain & Brawn Ship series" to read the synopsis.

[Bawanna]

That was Asimov... an early favorite, also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_in_the_Sky

The ? Ship... not sure, but Anne McCaffrey wrote a series of novels about sentient spaceships... real AI-controlled by a real human brain rescued from a dying body.

Wynn:)

Wow, I think I read that one. Really. There was a part where they could move the ships around the base by themselves cause the real human brain controlled the space ship.

Danged if I ain't feeling just a little bit worldly today. What a sensation for a displaced Missouri dirt farmer. I think I even enjoyed it if I'm remembering right.

[O'Dell]

Red Phoenix is terrific. I think that Clancy helped him with that one. Larry Bond is a favorite, too, not as prolific as some, though.

Wynn:)

Larry Bond was my favorite through Red Phoenix, Vortex, and Cauldron, but after that he sorta lost me. I especially liked "Cauldron" because we got to kick French tail. I also very much liked Coyle's earlier books when he wrote about armor which he knew well. Oddly enough, I could only put three of Clancy's in my favorites; Hunt, Red Storm, and Debt of Honor. I've read all of them though.

[wyntrout]

I love Coyle's books, too, and Taylor, Tom Wilson, Mark Berent(what happened to him?), Dale Brown(B52's, of course!). Ralph Peters, Herman, and many others... Hagberg, and kind of got burnt out on submarine novels, Tillman, Coonts....

Oh, I started school at 5 in Tampa, not turning 6 until June '46, after the first grade.

Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

That was Asimov... an early favorite, also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_in_the_Sky

The ? Ship... not sure, but Anne McCaffrey wrote a series of novels about sentient spaceships... real AI-controlled by a real human brain rescued from a dying body.

Wynn:)

Seetee, I think, was the author's word for anti-matter. In other words a spaceship from a galaxy where anti-matter was the norm. Today we know that that's highly unlikely.

[O'Dell]

I love Coyle's books, too, and Taylor, Tom Wilson, Mark Berent(what happened to him?), Dale Brown(B52's, of course!). Ralph Peters, Herman, and many others... Hagberg, and kind of got burnt out on submarine novels, Tillman, Coonts....

Oh, I started school at 5 in Tampa, not turning 6 until June '46, after the first grade.

Wynn:)

By Taylor do you mean Charles D? I've got a bunch of his books, but they're mostly about subs. Let us not forget Douglas Reeman, all Brit Navy, or Martin Caiden, mostly flying. I also like Tillman, Hagburg and Berent. Coontz wrote a couple of good ones, Flight, and The Intruders, but he could get pretty unbelievable too. I know Dale Brown and we've never gotten along; the AF vs Navy thing. He wasn't even a pilot in the AF - he was a navigator. Then there's Joe Weber.

[O'Dell]

Seetee, I think, was the author's word for anti-matter. In other words a spaceship from a galaxy where anti-matter was the norm. Today we know that that's highly unlikely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seetee_Ship

I found Seetee Ship. Evidently it was not highly regarded, but I've remembered it for almost sixty years. I was a kid - what did I know? SeeTee was anti-matter, so I was right about that.

[OldLincoln]

I'm with you on Clancy. He gets old pretty quick with sooo much detail that I skip a few paragraphs. Never happens with Steve Coonts, Dale Brown, Cussler and most others. If I don't like it half way through I put it away. Some are just over the top terrific and I look up and see it's the middle of the night. Those include Ken Follett, Ludlum, and others. I didn't expect to like Follett, but read my first one because my BIL insisted. It was something Pillars and about 1400 pages. Now I read all his I can.

[O'Dell]

I'm with you on Clancy. He gets old pretty quick with sooo much detail that I skip a few paragraphs. Never happens with Steve Coonts, Dale Brown, Cussler and most others. If I don't like it half way through I put it away. Some are just over the top terrific and I look up and see it's the middle of the night. Those include Ken Follett, Ludlum, and others. I didn't expect to like Follett, but read my first one because my BIL insisted. It was something Pillars and about 1400 pages. Now I read all his I can.

Clancy was good in his first two books, Hunt and Red Storm. Then someone told him he needed to do more character and plot development. At that point he became tedious. For example I liked Debt of Honor. However, this was an 800 page book and the first 650 pages were setup. Nearly all the action took place in the last 150 pages.

I just finished Cussler's "The Race" He's entertaining but is a bit light. I know I've read Follett, but off the top of my head, I can remember any titles. I've never read Ludlum.

I'm weird about reading books - if I start it I finish it, always. I'm about 2/3 through Griffin's The Outlaws right now and I hate it. However, I'll tough it out and finish it tonight. Then on to something better, I hope.

[wyntrout]

By Taylor do you mean Charles D? I've got a bunch of his books, but they're mostly about subs. Let us not forget Douglas Reeman, all Brit Navy, or Martin Caiden, mostly flying. I also like Tillman, Hagburg and Berent. Coontz wrote a couple of good ones, Flight, and The Intruders, but he could get pretty unbelievable too. I know Dale Brown and we've never gotten along; the AF vs Navy thing. He wasn't even a pilot in the AF - he was a navigator. Then there's Joe Weber.

Wow! That's pretty "racist"! As the radar navigator... the Bombardier and the whole purpose of a BOMBER, he and I told the PILOTS where to go... the freaking bus drivers. We didn't even have windows... kept in a dark cave with radar screens... and later Low-Light TV and FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red) as well. Late in MY career, the Air Force finally started giving more say and even command to the RANKING Officer, not just the ranking bus driver.:D

I think that Dale was also in FB111s... the :fighter"-bomber version. Notice how the B52's HAVE outlived and are outliving ALL of the other bombers.

I was thinking I should have started a LITERARY Thread. That's one thing about this forum... since I've been a member, this has become the norm! Coincidence??:rolleyes: Sorry! :banplease:
For further discussion, here's a new thread for book fans:

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?p=99416#post99416


Wynn:)

[O'Dell]

Wow! That's pretty "racist"! As the radar navigator... the Bombardier and the whole purpose of a BOMBER, he and I told the PILOTS where to go... the freaking bus drivers. We didn't even have windows... kept in a dark cave with radar screens... and later Low-Light TV and FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red) as well. Late in MY career, the Air Force finally started giving more say and even command to the RANKING Officer, not just the ranking bus driver.:D

I think that Dale was also in FB111s... the :fighter"-bomber version. Notice how the B52's HAVE outlived and are outliving ALL of the other bombers.

I was thinking I should have started a LITERARY Thread. That's one thing about this forum... since I've been a member, this has become the norm! Coincidence??:rolleyes: Sorry! :banplease:

Wynn:)

Sorry, I forgot that little item in your resume. I had a guy in the back of my F-4 with a radar screen too. But if he had tried to tell me where to go, I would have command ejected him. :D Maybe that's why Navy airplane drivers are aviators and AF drivers are pilots.

[Husky44]

Here I thought this thread was going to be about an encounter with a potential BG, by the title "Ran into a bit of trouble today". Little did I realize I was walking into the Jane Austen book club... ;)

[Scoundrel]

Can't judge a thread by its title!
Can't judge a book by its cover!

[muggsy]

The time to have addressed the situation was before you made your ATM transaction. You should have calmly and politely informed the miscreant of where he was supposed to wait and why. If he protested you should have called upon the manager of the facility to intervene. Never allow anyone to stand behind you at an ATM.

[Scoundrel]

He walked up while I was in mid transaction.