Idiots with guns

[aray]

Saw this on another gun forum. I guess this just proves jocko's point that not everyone should have a gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et33bbA0GeM

[Bill K]

Couldn't watch it. Soon as I saw the kid with the gun I left the page.

[Bawanna]

Try again, the kid was just a victim of a stupid dad, the rest are just idiots. The best was the very last, the improperly attired cute girl. I thought she was entirely appropriate and cuter than a bugs ear. So a piece of hot brass down your shirt, no harm, just entertaining and she even took her finger off the trigger while she was fishing it out.

[jlottmc]

Yup, those folks have no reason to own a gun. I don't blame them so much as the ones that were supposed to be supervising, and that turned them loose like that.

[Ikeo74]

Couldn't watch it. Soon as I saw the kid with the gun I left the page.
That guy died from his injury.

[ltxi]

No sympathy..natural selection serves us all well

[LaP]

If I'm not mistaken, that kid shot his father at a wedding in Iran. It's customary at their weddings to shoot AK47s and other automatics after the ceremony. The kid was just doing what he saw the "adults" doing.


Lesson learned?.... NOPE. It's still a common practice.:cool:

[aray]

Wow, I didn't know that anyone had died when I posted the link to the video. Gives it all a more somber tone, that's for sure.

In hindsight you can understand why: the bullet clearly went into the lower abdomen and was headed up & in - directly towards and through pretty much all of the major organs in its line of flight. He would have had a better chance with a straight-on shot. Sad.

[Scoundrel]

I forgot to mention in my recent range report on the Barska vs. NCStar scopes that I had my first oops. It was the closest thing to an "accidental discharge" I have had yet. I explained this scenario to a friend, and he doesn't think it qualifies as an AD.

Here is what happened:

I like to leave a shooting range with full magazines (and, for my CCW, one in the chamber). So when I've burned up most of the ammo I brought with me, I count out what I will need to fill up the magazines and set it aside. Then I shoot the rest.

I had emptied the M&P 15/22, removed the empty magazine, refilled all of the magazines and slipped them into their pouches in the gun bag. I was getting ready to disassemble the M&P for transport, but I decided to drop the hammer first. I pointed the thing downrange (without really aiming at anything), put my finger on the trigger, squeezed, and it went bang!

What the hell? Where did that bullet come from? I would have sworn that the bolt had locked back on an empty magazine, and that there was nothing in the chamber.

But I don't know if I would call it "accidental" or "negligent". I pointed the thing in a safe direction. I intentionally put my finger on the trigger, and intentionally squeezed it in a very deliberate action. It's just that I was expecting a click and a bang happened instead.

[Bawanna]

Your a wise man scoundrel. By doing what you did it doesn't matter what you want to call it. Nothing got hit, nobody got hurt, all good.

Many would have just dropped the hammer at the bench behind the lanes and things could have been very very ugly.

[wyntrout]

A mental slip up saved by safety practices. You did the safe thing, though you can never check the chamber enough. I don't know about you, but I have these little short episodes of memory loss... C.R.S. In my case, it's part of getting old, I guess. I might have counted up to empty chamber, but if the slide is in battery, I pull the trigger while aiming at the target. It's usually a bad count because it goes bang most of the time... sometimes 2 or 3 more times!:eek: I'm still shooting at the target, though.

Wynn:)

[Rainman48314]

Your a wise man scoundrel. By doing what you did it doesn't matter what you want to call it. Nothing got hit, nobody got hurt, all good.

Many would have just dropped the hammer at the bench behind the lanes and things could have been very very ugly.That would get you banned at all my local ranges, even if it went "click".

And for Scoundral, leaving the range with all loaded mags is asking for trouble. Are you using SD rounds for range practice or are you loading your CCW with FMJs?

[Scoundrel]

Bawanna, wyntrout, thanks for the reassurance. I wish there was a way to let the hammer down gently in the M&P without having first cracked it in half. I do the chamber check on pistols instinctively, but am new to rifles and haven't made that a habit yet. I keep forgetting I can do that - I don't see the right side of the rifle much. I really need to practice that, especially since S&W says I should NEVER dry fire the M&P 15/22.
Mental note: Need to do some searches and see if I can find out why S&W felt it necessary to make that point so strongly in the manual, and whether they really mean NEVER, or just not habitually, hundreds of times.


Rainman48314 -

I contemplated simply not responding to your post, because its tone sounded very judgmental, with questions that seemed as if they might lead to more judgments, with no "safe" answer. But I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Smileys or not, the tone of online communication is often misinterpreted by the reader. So here goes:

Yeah, having some idiot pull the trigger anywhere but in a booth with the gun pointed downrange is the nightmare of every range master, and of every range customer. Good thing that's not what I did.

Regarding leaving with loaded magazines, I think that "asking for trouble" is a pretty harsh thing to say about having a loaded CCW when you leave the range, or loaded magazines safely tucked into pouches inside your range bag. You just never know when aliens will invade or the zombie apocalypse will occur, and luck favors the prepared.

Regarding what's in my CCW, well, that's really between me and my CCW. No offense, but I just don't feel inclined to discuss it. Threads about what ammo should be used in what circumstances are easy to find, and we don't need to start another one here.

[Scoundrel]

Mental note: Need to do some searches and see if I can find out why S&W felt it necessary to make that point so strongly in the manual, and whether they really mean NEVER, or just not habitually, hundreds of times.

Update: A quick search found that there is in fact a way to let the hammer down gently without taking it apart. I was simply not doing it right. What I was doing wrong was pulling the bolt all of the way back, pulling the trigger, and letting the bolt forward slowly (like I would do with a revolver or pistol with an exposed hammer). When I do this with the M&P 15/22, the disconnector holds the hammer to the rear until I release the trigger at which point the hammer drops onto the trigger sear (and is still cocked).

To do it correctly, I just need to pull the bolt partway back (about an inch and a half) until I feel the resistance increase (or if I am looking at the bolt, when about 1/2" of the bolt is still visible). At that point, pulling the trigger releases the hammer, which travels a VERY short distance to the underside of the bolt, and you can let it down gently.

Oh, and the dry fire thing is just the usual concern about the firing pin repeatedly smacking the rear of the breech and making a divot there, which makes the chamber smaller.

But now we're drifting off topic, so let me nudge it back that way. The girl at the end with the casing down her shirt is not a gun idiot, and she proves it several times in the full video, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWO-EzoIbSs&feature=relmfu
I did catch one slip at :39. She had her finger inside the trigger guard when she cocked the hammer, and it wasn't pointed in a safe direction. But, that clip was clearly done for cinematic effect, and it was probably empty at the time. I say this because I'm pretty sure she's not dumb.

Here she is again with a 10 gauge shotgun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhqexbt3i0&feature=fvsr

I've watched a handful of her videos in the past. She's a redneck, yes. From some angles, she starts to look a little like a meth freak, but most of the time she's pleasant to look upon. And her videos are usually at least somewhat entertaining.

[LaP]

But now we're drifting off topic, so let me nudge it back that way. The girl at the end with the casing down her shirt is not a gun idiot, and she proves it several times in the full video, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWO-EzoIbSs&feature=relmfu
I did catch one slip at :39. She had her finger inside the trigger guard when she cocked the hammer, and it wasn't pointed in a safe direction. But, that clip was clearly done for cinematic effect, and it was probably empty at the time. I say this because I'm pretty sure she's not dumb.

Here she is again with a 10 gauge shotgun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhqexbt3i0&feature=fvsr

I've watched a handful of her videos in the past. She's a redneck, yes. From some angles, she starts to look a little like a meth freak, but most of the time she's pleasant to look upon. And her videos are usually at least somewhat entertaining.

Her videos are entertaining and help to demonstrate (at least to my wife.) that women can handle some serious weapons when using the proper technique. Is she perfect?..... I'm not sure...read my by-line.;)

[Scoundrel]

Getting back to the guy in Iran and his kid shooting him:

Here's the full clip, showing what happened beforehand:
http://www.shimshon9.com/kid-shoots-dad-wedding/12/12/2008

Looks like the dad fired it, then fiddled with it, presumably to make it "safe" and then handed it to his kid. It's hard to say for sure because the video quality's not great, there's a chair in the way, the camera moves around and pans away for a few seconds, and there's no frame-by-frame capability.

The internet comments are, of course, brutal.

[Rainman48314]

Rainman48314 -

I contemplated simply not responding to your post, because its tone sounded very judgmental, with questions that seemed as if they might lead to more judgments, with no "safe" answer. But I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Smileys or not, the tone of online communication is often misinterpreted by the reader. So here goes:

Yeah, having some idiot pull the trigger anywhere but in a booth with the gun pointed downrange is the nightmare of every range master, and of every range customer. Good thing that's not what I did.

Regarding leaving with loaded magazines, I think that "asking for trouble" is a pretty harsh thing to say about having a loaded CCW when you leave the range, or loaded magazines safely tucked into pouches inside your range bag. You just never know when aliens will invade or the zombie apocalypse will occur, and luck favors the prepared.

Regarding what's in my CCW, well, that's really between me and my CCW. No offense, but I just don't feel inclined to discuss it. Threads about what ammo should be used in what circumstances are easy to find, and we don't need to start another one here.Perhaps I misunderstood you re loaded mags or you misunderstood me. Of course you should have your CCW loaded, chambered and a loaded extra mag at the ready. I do the same thing. I was referring to taking the time to load mags to other guns you are just transporting home.

I did make a judgemental comment but it was directed at the people referenced who pull the trigger outside the shooting station as another poster commented. You, while being surprised, still did the right thing.

:):):)

[Scoundrel]

I was referring to taking the time to load mags to other guns you are just transporting home.
:):):)

It seems that we still have one thing to disagree about. I feel that having a gun on hand which does not have any ammo available for it is like having a flashlight with no batteries. At least two people I go shooting with feel the same way. So we don't shoot every bullet we bring for each gun. we save out the last few, reload the magazines, case them up, and take them home.

I'm talking about not only the CCW, but any other guns I have with me too.

I did, however, run into a practical problem with this plan. With the CCW and the other pistols I have fired, the magazines very infrequently need cleaning. With the M&P, the magazines need cleaning pretty much after every shooting session. Man, that .22 ammo is filthy. So now I have a bunch of full magazines that need to be unloaded before they can be cleaned, then reloaded again.

So maybe I'll just load up ONE magazine for it next time.

...but I'm not sure if one 25-round magazine will be enough to handle any zombie attacks that might befall me on the way home.

[Bawanna]

Perhaps I misunderstood you re loaded mags or you misunderstood me. Of course you should have your CCW loaded, chambered and a loaded extra mag at the ready. I do the same thing. I was referring to taking the time to load mags to other guns you are just transporting home.

I did make a judgemental comment but it was directed at the people referenced who pull the trigger outside the shooting station as another poster commented. You, while being surprised, still did the right thing.

:):):)

I'm glad you clarified that Rainman, I figured from the get go there was some misunderstanding here. We do see some very unsafe and stupid things at ranges. I like to shoot out in the woods or a gravel bit by myself or just me and my own people but it's getting harder and one has to drive alot further to find a place anymore. Find a good place and then everyone else finds it and they close em down.

Indoor ranges are really nice for wheelchair access but you gotta pay attention to the other shooters. I usually take my son and we share a lane so we can watch each others backs.

I've been known to wear a vest on occasion and borrow one for my son from time to time too. Course when the slip comes I'll probably get it in the head, Murphy stays pretty close to me.

[jlottmc]

It seems that we still have one thing to disagree about. I feel that having a gun on hand which does not have any ammo available for it is like having a flashlight with no batteries. At least two people I go shooting with feel the same way. So we don't shoot every bullet we bring for each gun. we save out the last few, reload the magazines, case them up, and take them home.

I'm talking about not only the CCW, but any other guns I have with me too.

I did, however, run into a practical problem with this plan. With the CCW and the other pistols I have fired, the magazines very infrequently need cleaning. With the M&P, the magazines need cleaning pretty much after every shooting session. Man, that .22 ammo is filthy. So now I have a bunch of full magazines that need to be unloaded before they can be cleaned, then reloaded again.

So maybe I'll just load up ONE magazine for it next time.

...but I'm not sure if one 25-round magazine will be enough to handle any zombie attacks that might befall me on the way home.

I just carry a weapon that is dedicated to the role for that day. I don't shoot it that day, but will rotate among my carry guns so eventually it will be fired. I keep that one and the gear for it under wraps, then after I clean my guns I can move on to another. That way I get to have my cake and shoot all the ammo I bring.:D Not knocking any one's ways just sayin' it's nice to have options.

[Scoundrel]

I just carry a weapon that is dedicated to the role for that day. I don't shoot it that day, but will rotate among my carry guns so eventually it will be fired. I keep that one and the gear for it under wraps, then after I clean my guns I can move on to another. That way I get to have my cake and shoot all the ammo I bring.:D Not knocking any one's ways just sayin' it's nice to have options.

Options are good.

I just bring more ammo than I think I want to shoot, so I'll have some left over. Judging from the reactions of some over in the "new recoil spring for CM9" thread, I have been shooting more ammo than a lot of posters here.

[Bawanna]

Thats pretty much what I do also. I always have one fully loaded and on me at all times during a range session, especially out in the woods in case anyone drives up.
I may shoot the one I'm carrying but I'll have another loaded and on me while it's being shot. Never without one ready to go.
Don't want to get caught unprepared.

[Rainman48314]

It seems that we still have one thing to disagree about. I feel that having a gun on hand which does not have any ammo available for it is like having a flashlight with no batteries. At least two people I go shooting with feel the same way. So we don't shoot every bullet we bring for each gun. we save out the last few, reload the magazines, case them up, and take them home.

I'm talking about not only the CCW, but any other guns I have with me too.

I did, however, run into a practical problem with this plan. With the CCW and the other pistols I have fired, the magazines very infrequently need cleaning. With the M&P, the magazines need cleaning pretty much after every shooting session. Man, that .22 ammo is filthy. So now I have a bunch of full magazines that need to be unloaded before they can be cleaned, then reloaded again.

So maybe I'll just load up ONE magazine for it next time.

...but I'm not sure if one 25-round magazine will be enough to handle any zombie attacks that might befall me on the way home.
Maybe we disagree because I started going to the range before I ever had a CPL (CCW). Our laws require unloaded transport and if a full mag and matching gun are in a same range bag, its a violation.

I often load mags at home to bring TO the range. It saves time. I do it immediately before leaving, and, of course, it's all in the trunk and I have a CPL anyway. I don't want loaded mags in the house in the event of a break-in. It would be too convenient for a bad guy to go to my range bag and load my guns.

When I expect possible Zombie attacks, its a 30 round mag of 5.56 at the ready. I'm new to rifles too. Will a .22 finish a Zombie?:)

[Scoundrel]

Maybe we disagree because I started going to the range before I ever had a CPL (CCW). Our laws require unloaded transport and if a full mag and matching gun are in a same range bag, its a violation.

That's a very good reason, and once you'd gotten used to doing it that way, well, we're creatures of habit.




When I expect possible Zombie attacks, its a 30 round mag of 5.56 at the ready. I'm new to rifles too. Will a .22 finish a Zombie?:)

The way I see it, there is a lot of speculation about what will take out a zombie, and very little hard data. Also, I've heard it said over and over that shot placement is equally important, or perhaps more important, as what ammo you are using.

So I figure with a .22 and a bunch of loaded magazines, I can be very accurate at 50 yards or so, and will have a lot of rounds with which to experiment and find out what works for taking them out. I can also afford to stock up on the ammo. How many .22lr rounds can you buy with the cash spent on 30 rounds of 5.56? How many rounds of well-placed .22lr does it take to disable a zombie, compared to how many rounds of 5.56? I don't know, and I don't have a 5.56 yet. But a lot of .22lr is pretty inexpensive to start out with.

In fact, I think I'll order up a 50-round drum today.

[Scoundrel]

50-round drum ordered. In fact, I ordered two of them. I'm a firm believer in "Why buy one when you can buy two for twice the price?"

I figure when there are multiple zombies converging on my home, I might need a spare.