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TheTman
10-11-2011, 01:06 PM
I know this is a controversial subject, but many cancer patients use the herb for relief from the side effects of chemotherapy. I know it's misused a lot by people just wanting to get high, but there are some valid medical uses for it, it helps with glaucoma, and certain other medical conditions:
Today it's Medical Marijuana, tomorrow it might be any other prescribed drug such as pain meds, anti-anxiety medicine. Great way to disarm hundreds of thousands of people at a time.

"

ATF Ruling Disarms All Medical Maurijauna Users



Agency Sends Open Letter to All Gun Dealers
by John Velleco




The Obama administration is at it again.

With the stroke of a pen, the U.S. Justice Department has just subjected hundreds of thousands of Americans to a lifetime gun ban.


In an open letter to all licensed firearms dealers, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) unilaterally decided that any person who is prescribed marijuana for medical purposes is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

That means over 300,000 people in the states that allow medical marijuana suddenly cannot buy or possess a gun. Oh yeah, and for the many who already own firearms, watch out. They are now felons and could be subject to lengthy prison terms of up to ten years.

Gun Owners of America is not going to wade into the marijuana debate, but the fact that such a large group of people are losing their constitutional rights without even seeing the inside of a courtroom leaves a lot of people scratching their heads.

After all, this is the same Justice Department that, in 2009, basically advised federal prosecutors to turn a blind eye to medical marijuana use.

And, in a bit of twisted irony, the ATF itself has helped thousands of guns to get into the hands of known and dangerous drug cartels in Mexico through their operation “Fast and Furious,” which has led GOA to call for anti-gun Attorney General Eric Holder’s resignation.

The Justice Department makes it perfectly clear in the letter what it expects from gun dealers and gun purchasers, even though the Department and ATF obviously consider themselves above the law—both at the federal and state levels. According to the agency:

"Any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medical purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition."

Notice that persons need not be regular users of the prescribed drug; just the mere possession of a prescription card from a doctor is sufficient to trigger the gun ban. Firearms dealers are further instructed by the ATF:

"If you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have 'reasonable cause to believe' that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance."

As far as the overbearing, overreaching federal government is concerned, there is no need for a finding in a court of law that the person is a criminal, and there is no need for a finding that a person is a danger to self or others.

In fact, the gun ban is not even limited to when a person is actually using the drug for medical purposes. If you have the prescription card, you can’t own a gun—period.

This is just one example of how the government uses various existing laws to sweep people onto its gun prohibition list. The same thing occurred over the past decade to more than one hundred thousand military veterans who were prohibited from owning guns because of ailments such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)—in this instance, too, without the benefit of due process of law.

The fact that the ATF is acting against a state-sanctioned medical issue is also particularly troubling. The reason Gun Owners of America has opposed ObamaCare so vociferously is over the concern that medical records databases could be abused by the government.

How many other heretofore legally prescribed drugs could be frowned upon by federal agencies and subject masses of people to a lifetime gun ban?

If the ruling in the ATF letter is allowed to stand, we will have allowed the federal bureaucracy to arbitrarily carve out—with no input from the peoples’ representatives in Congress—an entire class of persons for whom civil rights may as well not exist.

And, to make matters worse, this letter looks like more proof that the ATF is doing all it can to draw attention away from its own “gunrunning” scandal and to avoid investigating and punishing official wrongdoing along the U.S.—Mexico border.

John Velleco (jvelleco@gunowners.org) is Director of Federal Affairs for Gun Owners of America, a grassroots lobbying organization with over 300,000 members nationwide. GOA spokesmen are available for comment.

Mr. Velleco is director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, a 300,000-member national gun-rights lobbying organization. More information about GOA is available at:http://gunowners.org/ (http://gunowners.org/)"

jocko
10-11-2011, 01:30 PM
next will be aspirins!!!

Thunder71
10-11-2011, 01:36 PM
I'm OK with chemically altered minds not being in control of deadly weapons (I didn't say just firearms either).

I believe this should be treated just like alcohol, but it will take someone much smarter than myself to figure out how.

Mind altering drugs and guns do not mix, regardless of the reason.

wyntrout
10-11-2011, 01:54 PM
I'm OK with chemically altered minds not being in control of deadly weapons (I didn't say just firearms either).

I believe this should be treated just like alcohol, but it will take someone much smarter than myself to figure out how.

Mind altering drugs and guns do not mix, regardless of the reason.

That's how gradualism and grandfathering work... "as long as it doesn't affect me... for NOW".

The camel's nose is well under the tent now... probably part of Obama's "Under-the-Radar" gun control program. What's next... any and all prescription drugs for pain, headaches, panic attacks, depression, or whatever... just another excuse to ban guns with gradualism. They will keep broadening the ban... just another good, common-sense approach to keeping guns out of the wrong hands... any one's but the government's.

Wynn:rolleyes:

TheTman
10-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Ok, say you had to have a license to buy alcohol, and they yanked gun ownership priveliges for anyone with an alcohol license, no matter if you hadn't had a drink in weeks, you have a license so you can't own a gun.
I don't know if just because you have a medical marijuana card, that you sit around stoned all day or not. And what about people with cancer and stuff that have a valid reason to smoke the stuff. They surely ought to be allowed to defend themselves.
If you ever have a beer and then carry a gun, you have a chemically altered mind and should put the gun away.

Thunder71
10-11-2011, 02:01 PM
I would prefer to have my mind as clear as possible when making life and death decisions, but that's just me.

DA: Says here you were on marijuana at the time of the shooting, is that correct?
Defendent: Yes, but...
DA: Thank you

That will go over well with a jury... I guess the way I look at it, the more cut and dry the situation the better, I would like all advantages to be in my court.

BrewerGeorge
10-11-2011, 02:14 PM
IMO, CCW carry is for law-abiding people. Using MJ is still illegal, whether you agree with that or nor - and I happen to disagree with it - the law's the law. If you don't like a law, you should work to change it, not just ignore it.

tv_racin_fan
10-11-2011, 02:49 PM
I'm OK with chemically altered minds not being in control of deadly weapons (I didn't say just firearms either).

I believe this should be treated just like alcohol, but it will take someone much smarter than myself to figure out how.

Mind altering drugs and guns do not mix, regardless of the reason.

Check out the effects of coffee on the human mind... you saying that coffee drinkers should not be allowed to own firearms now? Or Beer drinkers? One thing to say do not operate while under the influence and a whole nother thing to claim that if you use something you can never own a firearm.

Sure there are those who will say yeah but it is only weed smokers they want to outlaw.. next thing it will be something else where will you draw the line?

Just for the record, my mother has suffered from breast cancer... the drugs she took caused her to be very queezy... bit of weed and she was able to cope... guess her life wasn't worth her having the ability to defend herself for some. I take exception to that idea and would love to gut those people and allow their bodies to rot in the sun.

tv_racin_fan
10-11-2011, 02:54 PM
I would prefer to have my mind as clear as possible when making life and death decisions, but that's just me.


Better hope the criminals feel the same way or you never ever have cause to drink or take any sort of medicine.

I would prefer the sheeple would understand it aint the drug nor the gun that causes the issue. Punish those who do bad things for the bad things they do not those who wish to defend themselves regardless of the circumstance for something someone else might do.

Thunder71
10-11-2011, 02:54 PM
Sorry to hear it, but imagine an innocent life killed because someone was high and not thinking properly.

It's unfortunate situation, no doubt about it.

It's not up to me, nor does it matter what I say - laws are laws, break them and pay the consequences, don't like them - vote for someone who shares your beliefs and hope they get elected and do something to change it.

For what it's worth, I can't stand coffee and I no longer drink now that I carry - I practice what I preach.

I sure hope you weren't referring to me as someone you'd like to gut and let rot in the sun. I understand your feelings (I have family with cancer as well), but let's keep it civil.

tv_racin_fan
10-11-2011, 03:00 PM
Nice to know you never have cause to do medicine sir. One can only hope everyone never has cause for such.

There were suuposed gun advocates that had the same sort of thought as you not so long ago. They said so long as the anti's don't go after my guns it is ok with me. They said who needs a semi auto to hunt with anyway and who needs more than ten rounds in a magazine to defend themselves with... Those people helped to get an assault weapons ban passed into law. The lates version of that assault weapons ban includes far more firearms than the original and there are those who wish to see it passed into law, I sure hope those gun advocates learned their lesson but I doubt it.

Thunder71
10-11-2011, 03:03 PM
Where did I say I never have cause to take medicine? If I was taking medication that was mind altering it would:
1. Be legal
2. Cause me to not carry while taking it

I also don't operate machinery when the need for prescription or over the counter drugs occurs. That means I don't drive, I don't mow the lawn, I don't use my Skilsaw and I definitely do have a gun in my possession.

It's not rocket science... medicine can hamper your ability to think clearly or act in an appropriate manner, motor skills are affected... critical components to carrying a firearm!

Until they change the classification of marijuana it's going to be an issue.

I realize this is a sensitive issue, and people are upset (understandably so, it's a difficult topic). I don't take anything said here personally and would hope that everyone realizes in a perfect world the right to protect yourself should always be there, unfortunately in my mind there are times when you are not capable of making a life and death decision let alone acting on it.

OldLincoln
10-11-2011, 03:27 PM
The matter of it is the phrase "mind altering." On a strict term, smoking is mind altering. One may not have a prescription for it but it still alters the mind, Rx or not. Further, I understand many police officers take meds that could be classified as mind altering. I suppose they will loose their jobs because they will no longer be able to own a firearm.

This will be challenged quickly because they a) cannot isolate one drug on the basis of it being mind altering, and b) they cannot specifically define where mind altering begins and ends.

It's like the new CA Gun Control laws that take effect 1/1/2014 will probably be challenged and defeated before they take effect.

Thunder71
10-11-2011, 03:31 PM
"ATF disarms medical marijuana users."

That's the problem.

Marijuana is a Schedule I drug, which means it's not accepted as having medicinal use.

Join the effort to get it changed to a Schedule II drug instead of threatening the lives of people who understand what's going on and why. Until then it is not considered a medicinal drug and is not accepted as treatment.

I'm only trying to steer your anger in the right direction... of course the ATF is doing this, it's illegal. Point your finger on the right target and you might have more success in your efforts.

Schedule I Drugs
Schedule I drugs have a high tendency for abuse and have no accepted medical use. This schedule includes drugs such as Marijuana, Heroin, Ecstasy, LSD, and GHB. Recent activists have tried to change the schedule for Marijuana citing the possible medical benefits of the drug. Pharmacies do not sell Schedule I drugs, and they are not available with a prescription by physician.

Schedule II Drugs
Schedule II drugs have a high tendency for abuse, may have an accepted medical use, and can produce dependency or addiction with chronic use. This schedule includes examples such as Cocaine, Opium, Morphine, Fentanyl, Amphetamines, and Methamphetamines. Schedule II drugs may be available with a prescription by a physician, but not all pharmacies may carry them. These drugs require more stringent records and storage procedures than drugs in Schedules III and IV.

Schedule III Drugs
Schedule III drugs have less potential for abuse or addiction than drugs in the first two schedules and have a currently accepted medical use. Examples of Schedule III drugs include Anabolic steroids, Codeine, Ketamine, Hydrocodone with Aspirin, and Hydrocodone with Acetaminophen. Schedule III drugs may be available with a prescription, but not all pharmacies may carry them.

Schedule IV Drugs
Schedule IV drugs have a low potential for abuse, have a currently accepted medical use, has a low chance for addiction or limited addictive properties. Examples of Schedule IV drugs include Valium, Xanax, Phenobarbital, and Rohypnol (commonly known as the "date rape" drug). These drugs may be available with a prescription, but not all pharmacies may carry them.

Schedule V Drugs
Schedule V drugs have a lower chance of abuse than Schedule IV drugs, have a currently accepted medical use in the US, and lesser chance or side effects of dependence compared to Schedule IV drugs. This schedule includes such drugs as cough suppressants with Codeine. Schedule V drugs are regulated but generally do not require a prescription.

Bawanna
10-11-2011, 04:05 PM
For the record I love coffee. I rarely drink and when I do it's at home, never out. I do not have my gun(s) on me when I drink.
I've never smoke the wacky backy or sniffed glue, or huffed the blow cans you clean your keyboard with.
I did sniff the natural gas meter at our rental house in my youth and it gave a pleasant sensation which could possibly and probably explain why I am the way I am.

I gotta go with no guns while drinking, or smoking the wild wood weed. I don't go with taking away your rights to own a gun. I also do adamantly NOT support legalizing the crap. At first it would be a wonderful thing for LE but then we'd have to deal with all the collateral damage and side effects, like the history teacher instructing your students high as a proverbial kite and the students hovering at the same level.

For medicinal purposes, prescribed by a doctor, I'm ok with that. We're dealing with fraud sellers claiming they are medicinal marijuana growers. Grow your own if you got the card or make it available thru the pharmacy so you can pay 50 times what it's worth, they gotta eat too. Eat very well, better than most.

We really don't need anymore federal legislation, we need to put a ban on bad guys and call it a day. By their very nature, criminals don't follow rules, so smoking weed and packing a gun is probably in their everyday regimen anyhow.

Keep it civil and polite folks, bawanna got his eyes on this one.

wyntrout
10-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Wow! Now your avatar makes sense... you look like you're smug and sanctimonious... very fitting. You're just too "perfect" in your own mind... you can do no wrong, evidently.

Wynn:hippie:

Thunder71
10-11-2011, 05:17 PM
Do drugs and guns mix? I don't believe they do, so I don't mix them.

It's a big responsibility and one I don't take lightly.

Call me what you want on an internet forum if it makes you feel better. I however will choose not to participate.



Posted from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk.

Bawanna
10-11-2011, 05:20 PM
Wow! Now your avatar makes sense... you look like you're smug and sanctimonious... very fitting. You're just too "perfect" in your own mind... you can do no wrong, evidently.

Wynn:hippie:

I surely didn't see no cause for this name calling and mud slinging. Consider yourself on report. I want that kitchen and dining room spotless before your wife gets home. Got it?

My fingers over the drain the tub button, if we don't level off or climb it's going down.

Bawanna
10-11-2011, 05:21 PM
Call me an a hole, I'm having a crappy day. This ones done.