To Kahr: Fix the P380 or quit selling it.

[TheTman]

The P380 is really giving Kahr a black eye, I would suggest you either
fix the pistol so that it runs well or else take it off the market until you
can get it to run reliably. I'm looking for a .380, but after reading all the
horror stories about the P380, and repeated trips back to the factory,
there is no way I am going to spend extra money on a P380, when I can
get an LCP or other RELIABLE .380 for about half the price of a P380.
I have a Kahr CW40 and CW45 and really like them both, even though
the CW45 had to go back to the factory once. It was fixed and back in
my hands exactly one week later, and has been flawless since.
Why can't you get the P380 to run properly? I'd sure take it off the market until such time as you can produce a reliable product that one can
depend on to possibly save his life. As it is, I'd rather have a box of rocks than the P380 as it's for the most part just something to throw at a Bad Guy.

[jocko]

that outta make someone's pecker flutter at kahr. Only thing I can fault u with is that it should have every signature of this kahr talk forum besides yours..

[TheTman]

Well Jocko, hopefully people will see the thread and voice their agreement.

[TheTman]

You know, I think I'm gonna buy one of those Hellcats, it's about the cheapest .380 I can find, and see how reliable it is, compared to a $500 gun.

[knkali]

I know it seems like a sore subject and one that has been brought up here a lot recently, BUT are there as many complaints about other brands of guns on websites dedicated to that specific brand also? I do not frequent other sites to know.
It seems like there are a lot here. Therefore, I have purchased a holster and mag pouches and I am going to use my P40 in an IDPA drill or two to see if this gun really does perform as well I as I think it would. At the range it seems fine but with the added stresses of competition, I want to see if I get any FTF or FTRB or ?? It might not be the gun at all if problems happen but the shooter/gun combo not a good fit. Either way, I have to know

I guess I agree with the OP that the .380 is getting a lot of heat here. My wife is looking for a .380 and the Kahr would be ideal. I have been wondering what is up with this model myself recently due to the press here at this forum.

[FLBri]

a strong second, from me. The bad reviews on repetitive issues is what has kept me from owing one ... and as well putting one in my wife's hands.

[JFootin]

+1 on buying a P380. No way, Hose, am I going to wager that kind of money hoping I will get a properly functioning gun. The P380 is beautiful, but with the high dissatisfaction with the P380, some other options need to be looked at. This, IMO, looks like a viable alternative, and even more concealable than the others. Much less expensive than the P380, too.

It is the new .380 from Magnum Research, the Micro Desert Eagle. It is an all metal gun with a gas delayed blowback system, and it is quite a bit smaller than the rest of the .380 crowd. It is a licensed copy of the Czech ZVI Kevin, with minor cosmetic changes, made in the U.S. by Magnum Research. So, it is not a brand new, unproven design. Jeff Quinn does a good report on it, saying the accuracy was quite surprisingly good from a 2.3" barrel: http://www.gunblast.com/MicroDesertEagle.htm

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/MRBabyDesertEaglewithBullets.jpg
http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Miscellanious%20Guns%20and%20Holsters/MRBabyDesertEagle.jpg

Here is a review where a guy put 1000 rounds through one. 500 dirty reloads before he stopped to clean it, although it was cleaned and lubed before the range session. It was flawless. http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1230

And I just looked and Jet Guns has it in stock for $389 - http://www.jetguns.com/magnum-resear...nkl-p-351.html (http://www.jetguns.com/magnum-research-micro-de-380-nkl-p-351.html)

There are a lot of things to like about this design: it has a metal frame; no offset feed ramp; strait blowback with gas retardation - allowing for low felt recoil, a lighter recoil spring and easy racking; very easy disassembly by rotating the barrel 180°; no complicated reinsertion of a slide lock lever, being sure to get the end of a spring on a shelf; noticeably shorter in length and height than any other micro .380; no DIY modifications to springs, and mags and followers, polishing this, removing burrs from that to make it work right; and from the test reported above, this is a gun that you can use and abuse and run dirty, and it'll never let you down.

The only minuses that I see are it isn't a pretty gun and the slide doesn't lock back on an empty magazine. Big deal. I'm going to be carrying it in a pocket, not looking at it. And the slide racks easily, so not having a slide stop is no biggie.

JMHO, but I am about decided on this as my pocket .380.

[Bawanna]

Your really drinking the same kool aid too as MRI is a Kahr owned product.

Just to show the other side of the coin I got one of those a couple years ago for trial and eval for the officers to consider. We could not get a full mag shot without jams. We tried a full box and sent it back in frustration. It was a loaner so I couldn't play with it or try to cure anything.
I'm pretty sure the newer ones are much better, at least thats the rumor and apparently based on reviews it must be true.

Not throwing the wet blanket just letting you know that none of these little 380's are completely without issue in some part of their lives.

The guys incidently went with the Taurus 738? Much to my dismay. I tried to discourage but they like them, I think there are about 5 of them floating around here now. Like rabbits I guess.

[TheTman]

That is a nice pistol JFootin, but I'm curious as to how a pistol selling for under $200 will compare problem wise to the P380 selling for over $500. On a less than $200 gun you might expect a few problems, you pay $500 for something, you expect it to run pretty good right out of the box.

[jocko]

let me understand this bawanna, if you put a couple of rabbits together, they are gonna make a Taurus 738. Where can I buy these rabbits?//

understand now that I only am allowed one knife in my drawer so alittle explanation might help. I might have missed a word or two in ur comments that was important..

[knkali]

what is the weight difference from the MRI .380 and P.380?

[knkali]

Remember the Colt Pocketlite .380. I have one for 20 years now. Never cleaned it yet. Put approx 800 rnds through it. Still fires every time. I think the desighn was sold to Sig because their .380 looks just like it. Too heavy though for my wife's intended carry.

[beatlesfan]

I'm just gonna go ahead and throw my vote in here. I've wanted a p380 for over a year now. It's smaller and more concealable than my ppk/s. I'm just waiting for Kahr to fix the design before I buy one.

Sent from Tapatalk

[jocko]

as much as I like the P380 in looks design etc and own one myself (that has gone back once), I could not recommend one to buy it, unless I wanted to loose a friend. A new right now means nadda to me as if this "IS THE FIX". Give it a year IMO.

I could certainly recommend every other model that kahr makes and feel good about it..

[Bawanna]

let me understand this bawanna, if you put a couple of rabbits together, they are gonna make a Taurus 738. Where can I buy these rabbits?//

understand now that I only am allowed one knife in my drawer so alittle explanation might help. I might have missed a word or two in ur comments that was important..

I'm still researching the rabbit effect along with airport toilet seats causing children, I'll share that theory another time.

They took away my one and only knife I had in the drawer and now all I'm allowed is a spoon so I'm slightly below you in the edge department.

[jocko]

thank u, I knew u would ge to the bottom of this subject.. with only a knife in the drawer, I have a hell of a time with a bowl of chili.. maybe we could work out some trade for that spoon, say maybe AN ALBINO HORSE HEAD.:cheer2:

think it over and u can pm me:2eek:

[Zippo Guy]

I have had a P380 for a couple of years now. I guess I'm one of the lucky few that have one that works. It really bothers me to read about all of the problems everyone is having. I find myself expecting them to happen to me every time I take mine out, but so far, so good, no problems at all after about a 1,000 rounds. I am in agreement with you, get it working or stop until you can get it right.

[JFootin]

what is the weight difference from the MRI .380 and P.380?

It is 13.5 oz with the mag. The P380 is about 11 oz.

[KahrOwner]

I have to concur 100% with the original author and the subject of this thread.

Had I see all these P380 reports on here prior to dropping nearly $700 on my own P380 then I would certainly have gone running to the nearest SIG or Glock dealer instead.

So far the Kahr P380 totally sucks in my experience! I have spent well over $1000 on it now if you include all the ammo wasted in my many attempts to "break it in".

I have yet to see if my repaired P380 will be any more reliable but based on all these reports I am not at all hopeful at this time.

Currently I am having to wait another 10 days to get my own gun back thanks to its new frame and serial number (and silly California laws).

My range report on it is coming a.s.a.p (and then a possibly amazing deal on a slightly used P380 might be following that).

But it probably makes most sense to sell it elsewhere where buyers don't know very much about the P380.

Bob

[knkali]

Bob, can you please outline the probs ect or add a link to your post if possible.

[knkali]

It is 13.5 oz with the mag. The P380 is about 11 oz.

I will have the pocket lite weighed tonight for a comparo

[KahrOwner]

Bob, can you please outline the probs ect or add a link to your post if possible.

Hopefully this will work:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8417

Hopefully you can see the thread that I started (above) where I originally described the problems here:

**Brand new P380 with enough rounds thru to say "fully broken in".

FTF, FTE, FTRTB, stovepipes, having to "slam" the slide onto the round several times like a hammer to properly chamber it etc....

It reads just like a list of nearly everything that CAN malfunction with a semi-automatic pistol.

Would have loved to have changed it for a PM9 (and pay any difference) but Kahr refused.

And... I almost forgot - there is a bump in the steel inside the barrel bore that Kahr tells me is "visible but acceptable".

Oh well.... my first and LAST Kahr for sure! I'm thinking of posting a video on YouTube.

Bob.

[JFootin]

Here are details about the Micro Desert Eagle: http://www.magnumresearch.com/Micro_Eagle_specs.asp

[knkali]

hopefully this will work:

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8417

hopefully you can see the thread that i started (above) where i originally described the problems here:

**brand new p380 with enough rounds thru to say "fully broken in".

Ftf, fte, ftrtb, stovepipes, having to "slam" the slide onto the round several times like a hammer to properly chamber it etc....

It reads just like a list of nearly everything that can malfunction with a semi-automatic pistol.

Would have loved to have changed it for a pm9 (and pay any difference) but kahr refused.

And... I almost forgot - there is a bump in the steel inside the barrel bore that kahr tells me is "visible but acceptable".

Oh well.... My first and last kahr for sure! I'm thinking of posting a video on youtube.

Bob.

wow!

[knkali]

Here are details about the Micro Desert Eagle: http://www.magnumresearch.com/Micro_Eagle_specs.asp


I am liking this gun! Weight is everything for me and wifey though. She wants to be able to jog with it.

[Bill K]

I pretty much agree with the OP. I've a PM9 which I really like and two .380s of a different brand, but wouldn't consider the P380 based on what I've read about it here on KahrTalk. What a shame as a reliable pocket .380 is a treasure to own and carry.

[JFootin]

I am liking this gun! Weight is everything for me and wifey though. She wants to be able to jog with it.

A belly band ought to hold it for jogging.

Here is another review with some interesting comments. Interesting that he was in the LGS getting a credit for a returned Kahr 9mm when he saw it, could see the quality and bought it. He loves it!
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/25/micro-desert-eagle-pistol-review/

EDIT: Nice pics here showing the quality and simplicity of this gun.

[LMT42]

In fairness to the P380, without statistics on numbers sold vs. numbers of problem guns, this thread is useless. We have to remember that happy owners don't seek out Kahr Talk to tell everyone about their great 380. Most people stumble on or seek out this site because of their problems, which makes it appear as if all P380s have problems.

Just an objective observation - not meant to tick off you guys that have dropped a grand in a gun that won't work.

[Bawanna]

It's just me and I don't want to rile folks either but I question spending any amount of money on a 380 at all. There's plenty of guns now in almost real calibers that even the girliest girly man, or petitiest female can handle with ease and aren't that much bigger.

We're stuck in the my wife is a girl, so I have to get her a girly man gun that doesn't make her flinch and scratch her fingernail polish.

Wives need a real caliber even more than guys since they don't practice as much and they don't like to fight.

Might as well give em a 22 like I do. She likes it, I tried to get her a 32 Beretta just today and she didn't want it.

Gotta go now my eye shadow is running.

I really tried to make myself not post this all day long but I just couldn't hold out any longer.

[TheTman]

I'm just going by the number of problems that show up here for the P380, versus the complaints on all other models Kahr sells. It seems like there are 5 or 6 complaints on the P380, versus ALL the other Kahrs together.
I would like to know the number sold versus the number that come back for repairs. Question for you. Would you recommend one to a friend? I don't think I could.

[BEARDOG]

I am liking this gun! Weight is everything for me and wifey though. She wants to be able to jog with it.

If weight is everything, then I don't think you want a Micro desert eagle. It is all most 5oz heavier then a Ruger LCP... 14oz. vs 9.4 oz. It is also thicker and taller then the LCP.

I have a LCP and it is a nice lightweight carry. I have handled the MDE and it is a heavy chunk of a gun for a .380 IMO.

http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/LCP-MicroDesertEaglecomparisonchart-1.jpg

[LMT42]

It's just me and I don't want to rile folks either but I question spending any amount of money on a 380 at all. There's plenty of guns now in almost real calibers that even the girliest girly man, or petitiest female can handle with ease and aren't that much bigger.


I bolded the part I take issue with - get a PM9 it's just a little bigger - get a PPS it's just a little bigger than the PM9 - get a G26 it's just a little bigger than the PPS - get a G19 it's just a little bigger than the G26 - etc.

It's not just the size of the gun, but also the weight. Every millimeter and ounce matters to some of us. Please remember that you're talking to people that live in all parts of the US (hot and cold) and people that have different professions and body types. I live in Texas and am not a large man. I also don't want to buy a whole wardrobe to work around a gun - I want a gun to work with my wardrobe. With that being said, 380s are some of the lightest and smallest guns on the market. I carry my jframe when weather/clothing permits, but there are times when all I can carry is a little 380.

Now, let me flip this around; I don't understand the issues with the 380 caliber. I fail to see many instances where a 9mm, traveling the exact same path as a 380, would cause that much more damage. If you hit someone in the CNS or major artery/organ, I'd think that any caliber would do the job. Also, there are plenty of people that have been hit multiple times with 9mm/.40 and lived to tell about it. I guess I buy more into the meme of shot placement than stopping power - at least when talking about handguns. As far as barriers and multiple determined suspects, I'm not a cop. My gun is for stopping or deterring a threat until I can get away.

Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance of ballistics, but plenty of people have been killed by small calibers. In fairness, I have to remember that some of you live in cold climates and need a more powerful round to penetrate heavy winter clothing. I guess to each their own depending on their needs/lifestyle.

[LMT42]

Question for you. Would you recommend one to a friend? I don't think I could.

No, not without a heavy dose of warnings. I would also like to see the stats on guns sold v. returned. You're correct that Kahr has more problems with their small offerings. I had a PM9 that made me miserable. I guess I knew what I was getting into when I bought the 380 and was prepared for trouble.

[knkali]

If weight is everything, then I don't think you want a Micro desert eagle. It is all most 5oz heavier then a Ruger LCP... 14oz. vs 9.4 oz. It is also thicker and taller then the LCP.

I have a LCP and it is a nice lightweight carry. I have handled the MDE and it is a heavy chunk of a gun for a .380 IMO.

http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/LCP-MicroDesertEaglecomparisonchart-1.jpg


I heard the LCP is problematic though but the weight is next to nothing.
Will check that gun out as well.

The Micro is out since my Colt Pocketlite weighed in at 14 oz too.

Not sure if you guys agree but guns can get too small and their use becomes more difficult. IMHO

[knkali]

looks Like Nutnfancy on YouTube likes the Ruger. Dont know how you guys feel about his reviews. Either guys like him or they dont, but I think the guy is solid.

[HadEmAll]

My P380 is off to Kahr for the third time, and I'm really not missing it a whole lot. Not sure it deserves to be hanging around my other GOOD guns so long. I've been screwing with it for 6 months, and am kind of tired of it. My RUGER LCP and S&W Bodyguard are filling in quite nicely. I don't waste any ammo with those two. They feed, fire, extract, and eject boringly reliably as they have out of the box and through 300 rounds each.

When the P380 gets back, I'll break it in again, and give it every opportunity to be good.

[beatlesfan]

looks Like Nutnfancy on YouTube likes the Ruger. Dont know how you guys feel about his reviews. Either guys like him or they dont, but I think the guy is solid.

I prefer his Knife reviews over his gun reviews. He's a bit full of himself, but I like him. I was a bit opposed to him for a bit, but I cam around in the end. Check out Hickok45 on youtube if you haven't yet.

[Bawanna]

I prefer his Knife reviews over his gun reviews. He's a bit full of himself, but I like him. I was a bit opposed to him for a bit, but I cam around in the end. Check out Hickok45 on youtube if you haven't yet.

You can check out Hickok45 on Kahrtalk too, he's a member but his youtube videos are even better.

[BEARDOG]

Knkali,
As far as the .380's go LCP's are generally well reviewed and reliable, I would also bet they out sell the rest of the .380's big time.

[beatlesfan]

You can check out Hickok45 on Kahrtalk too, he's a member but his youtube videos are even better.

No kidding! That's awesome! I wanna go to "The Compound" and shoot with him sometime lol. I highly doubt if I could hit the gong with a .380, he can though.

[kahrlover123]

Personally, I have not heard / witnessed anything but good things about Taurus TCP. As matter of fact, I know a few guys switching LCP to TCP.
I might get one of those for pocket carry.

[Ol'coot]

I am a huge Kahr fan and own a PM9 and a K40 both run flawlessly. I was in the market for a .380 that I could easily back pocket carry in a wallet holster wearing my Dockers or other dress pants when my crossbreed IWB just does give me the concealment necessary. I spent consider time and effort studying the current crop of .380 available to me and it all came down to the Kahr P380, and the Ruger LCP. I know 6 people in our club with the Ruger LCP none of them have had any issued and 2 with the Kahr P380 both have been back for service at least once and neither are still considered reliable enough now for daily carry. About 2 months ago I was at my LGS and they had one of the distributor special LCP with the engraved slide and while looking at the dealer offer it to me at the same price as the non-engraved model so I purchased it. I have now run over 500 rounds through it a mix of brands and bullet weights, everything has fed and cycled perfectly. I added a CT laser to it and have less money in the total set up than the P380 was going to cost me alone. To summarize I still prefer the look, feel and sights on the P380 over the Ruger LCP but reliability out of the box was the decision maker for me on this purchase. I am very happy with the performance of the LCP and it is surprisingly accurate considering the minimal sights.

[JFootin]

looks Like Nutnfancy on YouTube likes the Ruger. Dont know how you guys feel about his reviews. Either guys like him or they dont, but I think the guy is solid.

Good reviews. I watched both the range report and the tabletop report. The LCP is a good looking pistol, and feather light. And even though it is longer, the melting and rounded edges make it less chunky than the MDE. It has been out long enough for them to work through and fix problems with the design. Definitely a good choice in the current pocket gun market. I might lean back in that direction for my .380 BUG.

[joe d]

I purchased an LCP about a year ago...It's one of the most reliable pistols I've owned...

[jocko]

nice gun, it will go bang, not the best trigger system but it will do the job, I gave mine to my son.

[TheTman]

I just called my LGS, they have a pink frame TCP that they think I should get. LOL.
Told em it would clash with my Mauve Teddi.
They did have a S&W Bodyguard .380 for a good price I'm gonna check out.

[JFootin]

Here is a forum post comparing the S&W Bodyguard with the LCP with the CT laser.

LCP VS S&W Bodyguard 380 at the range.
I was at an indoor range today and the Smith & Wesson rep was there letting the employees use the Bodyguard 380 and 38 special he brought with him. I got to try the 380 and did a comparison with my chrome slide LCP with a Crimson Trace laser on it. We all agreed the LCP had a much lighter and better trigger and hence more accurate than the S&W. With my LCP, I'm able to keep groups sizes to around 2 inches or smaller at 8 yards, but with the S&W, they opened up to 4 inches or larger. Also, the laser button was difficult to get to function. There's no way to use it in a hurry and it's supposed to work from either side, but the left side did not work.

Everyone there who shot them agreed that the LCP with a CT was far, far superior to the S&W Bodyguard 380 in function and accuracy.

[kahrlover123]

Anyone has any article that compares LCP vs TCP?

[JFootin]

Just Google search for "LCP vs TCP" and you'll be reading for a long time.

[JFootin]

Gun Websites 10 gun 380 Shootout, 1 of 5 videos in series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N16eTHbTNH0&feature=related

[TheTman]

I just like the fact that the Bodyguard has a safety, you can slip it in your pocket without a holster. Not recommended, but doable.

[knkali]

Funny, I do not like safeties on my carry gun. Dont want to forget during an adrenalin dump that it is on.

[HadEmAll]

I checked the safety on my BG380 to see if it worked after taking it out of the box. I've never touched it since in 300 rounds and 3 months.

There is no real reason to ever use it with that trigger pull. Must have been put there to make it sellable is some of the states with repressive gun laws. It's small, unobtrusive, easy to forget it's there, and a non-issue in my opinion.

[JodyH]

My P380 is on its way back from Kahr with its third frame (original plus two replacements) if it doesn't work this time around I'm going to request (demand is more like it) that my P380 be replaced with a PM9 (or CM9) with night sights and 3 magazines (the same configuration as my P380).
This is their last chance to make it work as far as i'm concerned.

[carnesee]

Try the Taurus TCP .380, themanski. I have one and it has been flawless. It's one of the early "A" series, too.

[TheTman]

I skipped on the .380, and wound up with a Ruger LC9. Fits in pocket and cost the same as what I got out of the pistol and accesories I sold. Has a safety so can be pocket carried without a holster.
For $120 more I could have got a CM9, probably would have got it if they'd had a pocket holster for it. But not about to carry that in my pocket without something to protect the trigger.
I think they'll trade up to the CM9 if I can find a pocket holster somewhere.

[yqtszhj]

Anyone wanting to buy a recent made .380, go get 2 LCP's. Not a P380. My LCP has been basically flawless. I have even shot junk ammo through it. I would buy another one in a minute.

I have not seen such negative reviews on a pistol since visiting the KT reviews. There have been a few issues with the CM9 but mine has been excellent. I don't recall seeing even one good post on the P380 in recent months. It's an embarrassment.

[TheTman]

I was sitting here thinking about trading up to the CM9, but I kinda like the idea of having a safety on a gun in my front pocket that's pointed in the general direction of Richard and the twins. I do like the Kahr trigger much better, but am having a tough time with the manual safety issue.

[Ljutic]

I had to buy two P380's before getting one that worked reliably. The first went back to the factory (on my dime since they wouldn't send me a call tag as it was still a very new model and they were still arrogant and claiming the gun model was problem free), but still had occasional pre-mature slide lock back even after return and trying a 3rd slide stop.

The second has been fantastic as have my CW45, P45, and PM9.

I agree they need to fix the issues.

[Longitude Zero]

Anyone who relies on a 380 to defend themselves has little/no regard for their safety. At least get a 9mm.

[TheTman]

I was just looking for something to slip in my pocket for a quick run to the kwik mart or dollar store, where I'm pretty certain I wouldn't need it here in my small town. My EDC is a CW45.

[WMD]

I carry my PM9 in my pocket all of the time. No safety! You do not need a safety with the striker block system and the fact that the Kahr is a DAO pistol. Another way of looking at it is....

Carrying a Kahr in your pocket is no diffrent then carrying a revlover in your pocket (which I occasionally carry as well!) :)

[JFootin]

Anyone who relies on a 380 to defend themselves has little/no regard for their safety. At least get a 9mm.

It worked for James Bond. (Licensed to kill.) :9:

[knkali]

I carry my PM9 in my pocket all of the time. No safety! You do not need a safety with the striker block system and the fact that the Kahr is a DAO pistol. Another way of looking at it is....

Carrying a Kahr in your pocket is no diffrent then carrying a revlover in your pocket (which I occasionally carry as well!) :)


actually I think the Kahr is a little safer to carry like that than the revolver is unless the revolver is hammerless.

[TheTman]

Yes the Kahr is different from carrying a revolver. The trigger is much smoother on a Kahr, and you can't feel the cylinder turning.

[WMD]

OK OK...., When comparing to a revolver, I was only thinking about the safety factor of putting a gun without a safety lever in your pocket (remember Richard and the twins?) :D

I do occasionally carry my revolver (with hammer) in my coat pocket. Certain not any pocket that is tight fitting like you find on dungarees. Then again, with a body like mine, one is not apt to wear "tight fitting" clothes....

I am off to the gym.....:(

[TheTman]

I just feel better having a safety on a gun in my front pocket. I do carry my revolver in my front pocket occasionaly, but the trigger pull is much heavier, and I'm sure I'd feel the cylinder turning if the trigger or hammer got hung up. The safety on the LC9 is right where it should be, same place as a 1911, so it shouldn't be a problem. Everyone I've showed it too has said they really liked it, one of them said he'd found the pistol he wants. If I could get a Mass. model PM9 that would work, but that's a lot more $$$. The manual safety is a big deal to many people. I had some really liking my CW40 and 45 until they got to looking for the safety, then told me they wouldn't own a pistol without a manual safety. I've explained the safety of the Kahr Trigger system, but some folks just HAVE to have that manual safety. The LC9 cost me exactly what I got out of the gun I sold, so that worked out well. Didn't have to spend extra money. I have 2 Kahrs that I really like, why not give Ruger a chance?
I notice Mr. Hickock45 sure liked the PM9 better than the LC9 though. My Kahrs will continue to be my EDC pieces, the LC9 is just something to slip in the pocket for a quick run down to the market. Much better than the .32 I had to do the same thing with.

[GOOFA]

I find it funny that no one remembers the MDE having a history of the slide cracking at the muzzle. I experienced two of them myself. I now have an LCP thats been flawless through 500 rounds and what I've found to be the best of the bunch accuracy wise and again with just over 600 rounds is the S&W BG .380 . It has been flawless, recoil similar or a tad less than the LCP, much better sights if you use them and as far as the laser goes there is a workaround that has made mine 100% operative. Remember these .380's are designed to be "point and shoot" . BTW, I have also had 2 frame replacements with my P380. Check out the forums, I think you'll find the happiest of all owners will be the BG .380 if you overlook the laser problem and fixed it yourself.

[JFootin]

I find it funny that no one remembers the MDE having a history of the slide cracking at the muzzle. I experienced two of them myself. I now have an LCP thats been flawless through 500 rounds and what I've found to be the best of the bunch accuracy wise and again with just over 600 rounds is the S&W BG .380 . It has been flawless, recoil similar or a tad less than the LCP, much better sights if you use them and as far as the laser goes there is a workaround that has made mine 100% operative. Remember these .380's are designed to be "point and shoot" . BTW, I have also had 2 frame replacements with my P380. Check out the forums, I think you'll find the happiest of all owners will be the BG .380 if you overlook the laser problem and fixed it yourself.

:third: I think GOOFA wins the 1st prize for finest photos around here! The link to the Kahr album is broken, but you can go to his public profile and click there to see 3 pages full of photos. And the Flicker Photostream is non-ending.

Gliffe, do you own ALL of those guns? If so, is your gun safe the size of Fort Knox? Did you win a record amount in the lottery or something? What about long guns? I didn't see any. ..... LOL! You are under no compulsion to answer these questions. Just ribbing you! :) Nice guns and photos!

[JFootin]

I find it funny that no one remembers the MDE having a history of the slide cracking at the muzzle. I experienced two of them myself. I now have an LCP thats been flawless through 500 rounds and what I've found to be the best of the bunch accuracy wise and again with just over 600 rounds is the S&W BG .380 . It has been flawless, recoil similar or a tad less than the LCP, much better sights if you use them and as far as the laser goes there is a workaround that has made mine 100% operative. Remember these .380's are designed to be "point and shoot" . BTW, I have also had 2 frame replacements with my P380. Check out the forums, I think you'll find the happiest of all owners will be the BG .380 if you overlook the laser problem and fixed it yourself.

Can you detail what the problem was with the laser on the BG .380 and what you did to fix it? Is it the built in laser that improves its accuracy over the LCP? Would not an LCP with a CT laser do as well?

[GOOFA]

Jfootin...
The buttons to operate the laser are much too soft to consistently operate the laser. S&W will send you replacements which work fine but they lose their rigidity quite fast and the operation of the buttons becomes to inconsistent. Inside the rubber buttons there is a little nib, when you depress the button the nib presses against the membrane which in turn operates the laser. The workaround is to take a thin pen refill and cut it the depth of the rubber button and place it around the nib, this gives the nib the rigidity it needs to consistently press against the membrane to operate the laser. I have done three of these with great success. The procedure can be time consuming because the depth of the pen refill around the nib needs to be somewhat exact to work properly. It shouldn't take more than a half hour and once done it operates the laser very easy. Also, if the laser is removed for service, the pistol operates just fine without it. The BG .380 has sights that actually work if needed. Once you get used to the pistol you will probably shoot well enough to employ the "point & shoot" method at close distances. It's really a great gun for its price, with or without its laser.

Thank you for the compliment on my photos, and yes those are all my pistols. I do not own any long guns at this time, I'm a pistol man.

[Cookster]

to add my $0.02, and perhaps some useful feedback for Kahr in case they happen to read posts here and/or participate. . .

I am a fan of Kahr's. I have an MK9 that I really like and is a daily carry. Based on my experience with it, three other friends of mine have bought Kahr pistols (non-P380) and are very happy with them.

For at least a year, probably a bit more actually, I have been doing the research to upgrade to a .380 pocket pistol (from a P-32, that I am happy with). I regularly monitor this web-site and others, for any sign that the reliability, etc., of the P380 was improving.

I REALLY wanted to jump on the P380 for many reasons. I felt that the perceived design, workmanship, features, shootability, real sights, sweet trigger, Kahr C.S., etc., was an easy justification for me to spend the extra dollars for it.

I am tired of waiting, Kahr. I respect and admire the level of support that Kahr has put forth to help folks out with bad P380's, but for me, I am not about to commit my resources of money and time on a roll of the dice.

While I do recognize that product reviews on the internet can tend to be biased towards the negative, I really do not see the same level of negative issues on the forums where the other pocket .380's are discussed.

Sorry Kahr, I absolutely did want to buy a P380, but my decision has been made to not get the P380. I will be picking up .380 pocket pistol from a manufacturer that seems to be able to produce a reliable weapon out of the box, starting with the very first round.

Respectfully,

Rob

P.S. - To the members of this forum, especially the P380 owners, thank you for all of your straightwarding reporting and experiences with your P380's. I found this information to be very helpful. Best Regards to everyone.

[JodyH]

If I had it to do all over again, I'd buy a Ruger LCP or a S&W 642 J-frame.
I'm tired of being nickle and dimed to death on an unreliable gun.
$20 transfer fees and $30 boxes of ammo start to add up when they are nothing but frustration.

[jocko]

COOKSTER: IMO a very wise decision on ur part. IMO u made a very nice non vindictive statement of FACT;


When the finaly get it right, then maybe u will consider. I think many owners wish they could be saying what your saying now..

[Cookster]

When the finally get it right, then maybe u will consider. I think many owners wish they could be saying what your saying now..

jocko,

I would absolutely consider taking another look at buying the P380 if Kahr can "finally get it right", as you say.

Rob

[TominCA]

I agree - mine are "running" now but the effort to get them to go was, overall, beyond what was reasonable. One went back with cracked frame and was replaced, the second one went back for something or other and came back not really running right - I fixed it myself, and the third one ( I have two) ran good after about 200 rounds. But they are still finicky and difficult to shoot little guns. I still like them but overall the factory seems to be having a lot of trouble making them run right.

In conrast the PM9 is great and not all that much bigger. My MK9 is also great.

I was going to get a Kahr in 45 ACP but decided against it because of my experience with the p380's. Only 1 out of 3 did what it was supposed to.

[Finnster]

I would not give praise to the LCP or the LC9. I recently returned 3 new LC9's that were defective. I bought a MK9 instead and I don't regret it one bit. It shoots perfectly, absorbs recoil(within reason) and conceals better than any 9mm I have tried.

[HadEmAll]

I would not give praise to the LCP or the LC9. I recently returned 3 new LC9's that were defective. I bought a MK9 instead and I don't regret it one bit. It shoots perfectly, absorbs recoil(within reason) and conceals better than any 9mm I have tried.

What does you returning 3 LC9s have to do with the LCP?

[Squib]

Manski - I think you'll be good if the mauve is dark enough.:rolleyes: As for the P380, Kahr has got to be aware by now that they have a problem. So, it appaars as though they have their collective heads in the sand hoping it will go away. Not a good sign. In the meantime, Sig has fixed their problems on the 238, and now it is hard to find one.

[KahrOwner]

Just like gambling you just have to know when to quit. I will be getting mine back in a couple of days and I have already bought 200 rounds of .380 WWB ready for the range this weekend.

THIS IS ITS LAST CHANCE AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED!

If I still get issues it is NOT going back to Kahr again and I will do my best to let other folks know that Kahr sucks. I really don't need all this pain and hassle Mr. Kahr!

I have other pistols that shoot just fine and I will look for a replacement to fill the role that I had identified for the P380.

My (short) experience of Kahr has really been a nightmare experience that I have no wish to repeat. $700-$1000+ wasted if you include all the ammo!

Range report coming soon!

Interesting - nobody has ever mentioned how stupid you feel at the range standing there holding this little tiny gun that keeps jamming! If that is how my weekend is going to be again then it is also going to be the last time.

Bob

[TheTman]

I hope they get your P380 right this time KahrOwner. After buying a Ruger LC9 and putting over a hundred rounds through it without a hiccup, it has me thinking if I want to keep fooling with Kahrs or get something less finicky. Trouble is no one makes anything as compact as the CW40 and CW45 and that double action trigger is SOOO smooth when the guns are running right.
My first outing with the CW40 was a nightmare, I guess that was my fault for limp wristing it. But the LC9 didn't bat an eye when I limp wristed it far beyond what would have caused the Kahr to jam or not return to battery. Anyway I got the CW40 running well enough that I wanted to try the CW45, (my preferred SD caliber) and it broke on the first outing with a trigger that wouldn't reset. I have to give kudos to Kahr customer service, they had it fixed and back in my hands in a week, and it's been running great as long as I use the 6 round mags and the right ammo. Last Saturday I took the CW45 and tried some +P ammo and it was a jam-o-matic. I was using 185gr Golden Sabre and 230gr Ranger T-series +P and neither would work reliably. Kahr is sending me a new recoil spring in case that was the issue. Then I tried my reliable WWB ammo in some 7 round mags and none of the 3 I had would work worth a damn. Kahr wants me to send the CW45 and the three 7 round mags in, if I can't get them to work. I took them apart and lightly oiled them inside, and made sure the springs were put in correctly before the range trip. They cycle perfectly by hand, but not when firing them. Ian at Kahr said to check for excessive verticle play in the mags, and there is some, but no more than with the 6 round mags. Anyway the round would either get jammed up against the top of the breech, or else they wouldn't get picked up at all. I suppose I'll send it back to Kahr if they'll pick up the shipping if the recoil spring doesn't help. After I get the new spring I think I'll take a camera and take photos to document the problems if I am still having them. You'd expect a $700 .380 to work better than they do. Frustrated, not stupid is what I'd call my feelings when my Kahrs act up.
Anyway I hope they get you fixed up KahrOwner.

[garflys]

Wow to all of you who have sent your guns back 2 and 3 times, and still sticking with them. Kahr should send you guys all new guns, 45s,40s 9s whatever your choice. I sent mine back to Davidsons and got another glock. I still have a sig 238 that has always been great. I hope Kahr sees how loyal you all are and does the right thing.

[KahrOwner]

It is not really loyalty IMO - it is just like you are trying to salvage something useable and reasonably reliable for all your effort, time and $$$$ spent.

Had this not been a handgun (with all the legal buy/sell problems) and been some other equally pricey but faulty item I would just have returned it to the store and gotten something else long ago.

Bob

[harvs12]

Another thumbs up here for the LCP .380, great little gun!

[jocko]

Wow to all of you who have sent your guns back 2 and 3 times, and still sticking with them. Kahr should send you guys all new guns, 45s,40s 9s whatever your choice. I sent mine back to Davidsons and got another glock. I still have a sig 238 that has always been great. I hope Kahr sees how loyal you all are and does the right thing.

indeed some of us kahr owners have indured alot to get our guns right. Also please rememberr the sig 238 was a problem child at first...

[PETE14]

Anyone who relies on a 380 to defend themselves has little/no regard for their safety. At least get a 9mm.

So a .380 is no better than not carrying at all?

A .380 is perfectly acceptable with the right ammo and if you hit what you are shooting. My P380 is the second most accurate gun next to my .44 mag with the 10 inch barrel and scope.

I have a Kahr P380, Kahr MK9, Ruger TCP and a Glock 27 that I carry depending on the situation and every one of them except the MK9 (slight problem but not after the break-in) have given me any problems. I carry depending on the situation.

I respect your comment but disagree with your comment.

[Cokeman]

He came over to the P380 thread to save us all from ourselves. Be nice to him.

[jocko]

I hope they get your P380 right this time KahrOwner. After buying a Ruger LC9 and putting over a hundred rounds through it without a hiccup, it has me thinking if I want to keep fooling with Kahrs or get something less finicky. Trouble is no one makes anything as compact as the CW40 and CW45 and that double action trigger is SOOO smooth when the guns are running right.
My first outing with the CW40 was a nightmare, I guess that was my fault for limp wristing it. But the LC9 didn't bat an eye when I limp wristed it far beyond what would have caused the Kahr to jam or not return to battery. Anyway I got the CW40 running well enough that I wanted to try the CW45, (my preferred SD caliber) and it broke on the first outing with a trigger that wouldn't reset. I have to give kudos to Kahr customer service, they had it fixed and back in my hands in a week, and it's been running great as long as I use the 6 round mags and the right ammo. Last Saturday I took the CW45 and tried some +P ammo and it was a jam-o-matic. I was using 185gr Golden Sabre and 230gr Ranger T-series +P and neither would work reliably. Kahr is sending me a new recoil spring in case that was the issue. Then I tried my reliable WWB ammo in some 7 round mags and none of the 3 I had would work worth a damn. Kahr wants me to send the CW45 and the three 7 round mags in, if I can't get them to work. I took them apart and lightly oiled them inside, and made sure the springs were put in correctly before the range trip. They cycle perfectly by hand, but not when firing them. Ian at Kahr said to check for excessive verticle play in the mags, and there is some, but no more than with the 6 round mags. Anyway the round would either get jammed up against the top of the breech, or else they wouldn't get picked up at all. I suppose I'll send it back to Kahr if they'll pick up the shipping if the recoil spring doesn't help. After I get the new spring I think I'll take a camera and take photos to document the problems if I am still having them. You'd expect a $700 .380 to work better than they do. Frustrated, not stupid is what I'd call my feelings when my Kahrs act up.
Anyway I hope they get you fixed up KahrOwner.

CHECK TO SEE IF YOUR INTERFACE BAR/PICK UP BAR ON THE BOTTOM OF TH ESLIDE HAS A SLIDGHT BEVEL AT THE VERY FRONT OF IT There is a fix for that if not there, I think it was wyn who discovaered it and it is prevelant in the 45 kahrs for some reason over all other calibers. With the mag loaded and the slide locked up, insert and see where that pickup bar is in reliation to that top round....

I think wyn when he reads this can post some photos of what I am talking about

[jocko]

So a .380 is no better than not carrying at all?

A .380 is perfectly acceptable with the right ammo and if you hit what you are shooting. My P380 is the second most accurate gun next to my .44 mag with the 10 inch barrel and scope.

I have a Kahr P380, Kahr MK9, Ruger TCP and a Glock 27 that I carry depending on the situation and every one of them except the MK9 (slight problem but not after the break-in) have given me any problems. I carry depending on the situation.

I respect your comment but disagree with your comment.

have a 380 owner on this forum who had to fire his gun in self defense. He is alive, the BG is in jail. END OF STORY..

IUf my P380 was as reliable as my PM9 I would indeed carry it more, but my PM9 just fi9ts every place I canput my P380 and I know this gun works and no doubt 9 mm trumps a 380 any day, all day..

Hell of alot of 380's sitting in people pockets that is for sure. Kel tek cut their eye teeth selling the P3AT. In my opinion is a cheap ass gun but it will go bang, it is low in price and they do stand behind it.

[getsome]

Wow, I have been thinking about picking up a p380 as I foolishly traded my perfect Ruger LCP on another gun and I really miss it not to mention back when .380 ammo started to show up again I bought a ton of it and now don't have a .380....

That was my 2nd LCP and both were well under $300.00 and worked flawlessly with anything I put through them....I am currently pocket carrying my PM40 and it has had no problems since day one but sometimes having the LCP made carrying so much easier...Would I take a .380 to a gang fight? No but a .380 in the pocket is perfect for a trip to the grocery store and for the record I have tested several brands of .380 carry ammo and all were very impressive in wet newsprint and would definitely change a BG's mind about bothering you any more....

After reading this thread there is no way I would pay over $700.00 for a p380 that is almost sure to have issues....I think if you pay premo bucks for a Mercedes automobile you shouldn't have to bring it home and pull the heads and fiddle with cam timing or anything else for that matter to get the thing to run right...You expect it to be perfect as a brand new p380 should also be...

There is definitely a problem with the design and QC with this pistol and in my opinion Kahr should just bite the bullet like Ruger did when the LCP first came out and offer a general recall and fix the problems and once they figure out how to do that then transfer that knowledge back to the assembly line and get it done right from the get go as well as do at least a 100 round test fire of every new gun before shipment...If Kahr doesn't do this and correct the situation they may get so much bad blood in the market place to ever recover their good reputation...

There are too many options in the small and less expensive .380 market place that work right out of the box and at this point I wouldn't advise anyone else I know to purchase a P380....Come on Kahr, enough is enough, how about doing the right thing and correcting this on going problem OK!!!!

[jocko]

ur dead right. ruger's recall on the lcp was a safety issue, not a reliablility thing like the kahr P380 is. It is a ultra safe gun but IMO it is very unreliable and if u want a 380, best go back and buy the lcp. It is a dandy gun, it will work and it will do the job at 7 yards and under. IO gave my lcp to my son after I got it back form their recall, I kept the P380 because it is just so much nicer but I don't carry it hardly at all and I personally do not trust if, like I would my lcp.

by theway I have a 2010 Mercedes glk and trust me this is my second Mercedes in 4 years and it will be my last. It sure an't what it should be. Kahr is no doubt working to get this P380 on the right track, they are not dragging their feet, IMO, I am just not sure they hav ehit on the right fix yet. It could just be that this gun is so so small and so so tight that it might just never be reliable.

I really want to (I think) takemy P380 back out with 200 rounds of fmj american brand ammo and if I can get 200 flawless rounds out of it, I will then brag on it, but to be honest, I just don't think that is gonna happen. Mine has been backonce and mine is one of rthe first 200 made, so if there are any bugs left in it, I will find them.

I wonder why we dohn't hear much aobut the komifornia legal P380 with a LCI and magazine disconnet and safety on them. good or bad we don't hear much about this model.. Againb makes me leary as lots of other things are now squeezed into this little pee shooter...