PM9 trigger question

[IraIII]

Hi new member here. I just traded into a like new PM9094. I really like it's size, and weight. I am used to S&W j frames for ccw, and intended this to possibly replace my 640. I am different than most, and find the trigger lighter than I like for ccw use. I like the stock j frame trigger weight, which is more like 10 lbs. The trigger on my PM9 is smooth, but I wish it were heavier. I know if I keep my booger picker of the trigger, it won't go bang, but I traded out my Glock 19 as I did not like no external safety. I was hoping for a more revolver like trigger on the PM9, are there any springs available to increase trigger pull, or am I destined to trade this off also?

[jocko]

kahr triggers are around 7-7.5# trigger weight and ur pm9 has a 3/8" trigger travel. If u wanbt a revolver trigger like what ur referring to, u best buy a revolver. The kahr trigger is alot heavier than a glock out of box trigger and is in line with most all other semi's. I would suspect if you could find a bunch of different striker springs that wolffs gunspsringmakes u might find what please u,but I have never seen any "for sale" heavier kahr springs. guessur destned to trade it, ur glock is about 50%+ precocked and is not like a kahr trigger. It might be 10%+ precocked and ur gonna have to pull the triger the full3/8" to get a bang thing to happen. It is as safe as any revolver and if ur gonna pocket carry it a nice holster that covers the triger area is amust "for any pocket gun" I think u need togive the gun a few hundred rounds before making a rash judgement. doesn't sound tome like u have even shot it any....

[Popeye]

Don't believe I ever heard this question before. Going to agree with Jocko here and say get comfortable with the pistol before you do anything. If the trigger was to be harder to pull I believe accuracy would go down the drain even if you are used to a heavier trigger pull of a revolver. The overall design of the Kahr PM9 is not designed for a heavier trigger pull. I do not think any auto pistol is designed for or has a 10# trigger pull. I have been known to be wrong before though.:o

[jocko]

let me know what the date and time was u have been wrong before, for IMO ur dead on track with this comment..

[FLBri]

I agree with the voices of experience here. Like you, I moved to a PM9 from a Smith 640 that I REALLY liked ... but since than I have not looked back. I carry my PM9 most everyday and once you get used to the trigger, you will likely forget about it. Bottom line, you have a fantastic carry weapon and might want to give yourself a little time to acclimate to.

[JFootin]

That trigger at 6.5 lb and 3/8" travel absolutely will not go off accidentally. I wouldn't try it with a loaded gun, but you could pull my CM9 out of my pocket holster or my OWB holster by lifting it using only my finger on the trigger, and it will not come anywhere near going off. Of course, I cannot place my finger on the trigger without partially removing the gun from either holster, as it should be. Now, my Kydex IWB holster holds the gun tight enough that it would make the trigger go off with a quick enough pull, but again, I can't reach the trigger when the gun is holstered. Of course, I draw my pistol with the trigger finger straitened out beside the trigger guard. Just making a point about the safety of the Kahr trigger. The gun weighs less than 1.5 lb loaded, so handling it with the 6.5 lb trigger is very safe.

[jocko]

kahrs tends to say 7 to7.5# trigger but most owners report 6+, so I guess it depends who makes what and how they measure. being wolffs makes the springs for kahr and reports that they are 6 to6.5# I tend to go with what JFpottin is saying backed by wolffs gunsprings. I have had the wolffs 5# striker spring in my PM9 since the git go and I can bet it no longer tests out at 5# either,but I trust it completley, as it is pocket carried in a desantis and that covers the entire trigger guard, and one still has to pull it 3/8". that tome is the winning clue for the great kahr trigger system. KISS comes into play here IMO.:third:

[Popeye]

I think the triggers with, and contour combined with it's smooth operation I think gives it a feel of a much lighter pull. The trigger on the PM9 feels lighter than the trigger on my Glock 26 or the XD9sc that I once owned. But I doubt it really is. To me the trigger was one of the main reasons I bought a PM9 in the first place. A smooth trigger goes hand in hand with accuracy. The PM9 put my XD9sc which I loved on the shelf, because I shoot it just as good as the XD but it carries on the hip better. I eventually sold the XD because I don't do safe queens.
I know of no other pistol in it's size where the trigger is even close to the smoothness of the PM9.

[jocko]

probably to the simplest designed trigger system that I have ever seen...... I have no safe queens either, actually no safe!!

[royal]

People will call me crazy but that's why I love my MA compliant PM9 with thumb safety. I carry chambered and can disengage it with my (thumb) knuckle in less than a second.

Maybe you'd be better off with that solution.

[jocko]

I think had they offered thqat back when I bought my PM9 5 years ago, I would have bought ur model. I have no quarrels with a manual safety. I can leave it on or off, where as my PM9 has nadda other than finger in my nose instead of the trigger area..

I do not like that LRI though, and all that printing on top of the slide just turns my stomach. I am told that was mandated by the state of Mass for it to be accepted as legal...

[IraIII]

Thanks for all the replys. I really like the smoothness of the PM9 trigger, but that is a different thing than the trigger pull weight. I know the Glock trigger system is different from the Kahr, and just used that as an example that if I am not comfortable with a trigger system, I won't carry the gun, and that is it's purpose. I am used to the heavy double action trigger pull of a revolver, and like the extra safety that I think it gives me. Many fullsize pistols have heavy da triggers such as Beretta 92 about 12 lbs, and Smith 5906 about 12-14 lbs. It is easier to handle the higher trigger pull with a full size grip though. Negligent/accidental discharges are most likely to happen in a pocket carrying situation when reholstering and catching something in the trigger, not when drawing as long as you keep your finger off the trigger. I have heard of glocks that had nd/ad when string of windbreaker gets caught when reholstering, and a moment of inattention.
I knew I would be swimming against the crowd with this question, but wondered if anyone had information on the possibility of increasing trigger pull slightly, without giving up the smoothness in the Kahr design.
I was wondering about the Mass. compliant version that Royal has, as it takes a different striker, and sear block spring from the more common PM9. Mass. requires a 10 lb trigger pull, but with the external safety, I think you do not need the heavier trigger pull.
I do need to fire my PM9 more, but I will not be carrying it until I am comfortable with it.
I was not able to find much specific information on trigger pulls for Kahrs, but Gunblast measured his PM9 trigger pull at 5 lbs 2 oz.

[royal]

My MA compliant model has around a 5.5# smooth PM9 pull. And like jocko mentioned it has the LCI which looks a lot worse than it actually is. It's just "there" and doesn't obstruct but yeah it's silly. I've worked the thumb safety so that it now clicks nice and smooth with a nudge but wouldn't occur accidentally. I live in a nanny state filled with lunatic anti's, but I'm very happy with this model PM9. Seems to have what I like in a handgun and very little of what I don't.

[wyntrout]

Wolff springs only sells a 5-lb spring in addition to the normal or standard 6-lb spring:

http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=29

I don't see any reason for a STRONGER spring. The trigger pull is long and smooth... pretty safe.

That's how you get "comfortable" with a firearm... shooting and handling it!

Wynn:)

[Lobo_79]

Hi new member here. I just traded into a like new PM9094. I really like it's size, and weight. I am used to S&W j frames for ccw, and intended this to possibly replace my 640. I am different than most, and find the trigger lighter than I like for ccw use. I like the stock j frame trigger weight, which is more like 10 lbs. The trigger on my PM9 is smooth, but I wish it were heavier. I know if I keep my booger picker of the trigger, it won't go bang, but I traded out my Glock 19 as I did not like no external safety. I was hoping for a more revolver like trigger on the PM9, are there any springs available to increase trigger pull, or am I destined to trade this off also?

Interesting question for sure. Most PM9 owners seem to agree that the trigger is smooth and consistent. One thing I'd recommend is always using a good quality leather, reinforced holster that does a great job protecting the entire trigger guard. A Don Hume or a Galco would work well. There are others too but to minimize your concerns I would avoid these softer holsters that really don't provide all that much protection (no offense to Uncle Mike).

I'm sure you already do this but you might also consider avoiding pocket carry or at least ensuring that the only thing you carry in that pocket in your holstered PM9. IMHO pocket carry is safe if not convenient. But if you are concerned about the light trigger pull than you could minimize that risk by paying close attention to how you carry it.

I understand your concern but I think you may regret selling your PM9. I won't bad mouth the J-Frame but I also think that in terms of pure self defense potential the PM9 is a more effective carry gun than the J-Frame. Perhaps a blinding flash to the obvious but the PM9's strengths include better controllability for follow up shots when using PD ammo, a higher round count, and comparable reliability, assuming you keep it properly serviced. I'd give the performance edge to the PM9 using PD ammo, when compared to the standard J-Frame, based on the PM9's 3" barrel. This is really a case of finding the next decimal in terms of performance but I still believe the PM9 has the edge.

All this is highly subjective of coarse. I own two J-Frames and a Ruger SP101 with a 3" barrel. IMHO my SP101 with a 3" barrel is more powerful than the PM9 but it's not as easy to carry. Keep your PM9; keep your J-Frame.

[jocko]

Thanks for all the replys. I really like the smoothness of the PM9 trigger, but that is a different thing than the trigger pull weight. I know the Glock trigger system is different from the Kahr, and just used that as an example that if I am not comfortable with a trigger system, I won't carry the gun, and that is it's purpose. I am used to the heavy double action trigger pull of a revolver, and like the extra safety that I think it gives me. Many fullsize pistols have heavy da triggers such as Beretta 92 about 12 lbs, and Smith 5906 about 12-14 lbs. It is easier to handle the higher trigger pull with a full size grip though. Negligent/accidental discharges are most likely to happen in a pocket carrying situation when reholstering and catching something in the trigger, not when drawing as long as you keep your finger off the trigger. I have heard of glocks that had nd/ad when string of windbreaker gets caught when reholstering, and a moment of inattention.
I knew I would be swimming against the crowd with this question, but wondered if anyone had information on the possibility of increasing trigger pull slightly, without giving up the smoothness in the Kahr design.
I was wondering about the Mass. compliant version that Royal has, as it takes a different striker, and sear block spring from the more common PM9. Mass. requires a 10 lb trigger pull, but with the external safety, I think you do not need the heavier trigger pull.
I do need to fire my PM9 more, but I will not be carrying it until I am comfortable with it.
I was not able to find much specific information on trigger pulls for Kahrs, but Gunblast measured his PM9 trigger pull at 5 lbs 2 oz.

me to hear Mass has a 10# trigger mandatgory. Where did u read that?/ I would be the kahr Mass complaint is not 10# trigger but again I loose alot of bets. If ur not comfortable with the kahr peddle it, no sense u or I or anyone arguining with u as u have it set in ur mind that the kahr trigger pull now is not what u want and u want to doctor it up some to get your revolver pull. Makes no sense, IMO u should have thought about all of this before u bought a kahr. U are the very first I have ever read anywhere where one wanted a heavier trigger pull that what comes from the factory. That should tell u something. an AD (accidental discharge is really a NG neglient discharge, A 2 foot trigger pull and 30# trigger can't offset STUPIDITY. U should realy look at the Mass. PM9 with a manual safety and if it has a 10# trigger pull which I doubt, then this gun should fit u to a tee..:third:

kahrs do not come with a 5.2# trigger. I can measure mine with my trigger gauge 5 times and get a different reading. Glocks I thinkj are 5# factory, ....

[Alfonse]

I don't re-holster with the holster in my pocket. That would be hazardous. I put the pistol back in the holster, than put the whole thing back in my pocket. Pocket carry is not like a duty holster.

[IraIII]

I seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot here in the Kahr forum, and I will be backing out, and lurking to try to find answers to any questions I may have. I prefer a heavier trigger, you may not. I like the Kahrs smoothness, and size. A revolver barrel is measured from the forcing cone to the muzzle, not including the cylinder. An automatic barrel is measured from the breech to the muzzle including the chamber. This makes a 2 inch revolver about the same as a three inch automatic, although there is loss in a revolver due to the gap between cylinder and barrel.
There are two heavier than factory triggers which are used in Glocks NY1, and NY2, these were installed by the police dept to help ensure no accidental discharges/ negligent discharges. I am not trained as well as a police officer.
I did not say the Massachusetts compliant Kahr had a 10 lb trigger, I said Massachusetts requires a 10 lb trigger pull to be compliant Unless you meet some other regulations such as multiple motions to fire the handgun.
Here is a link to the Massachusetts law http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagoterminal&L=3&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=AG%27s+Regulations&sid=Cago&b=terminalcontent&f=government_Regulations_940CMR16&csid=Cago
As far as measuring the Kahr trigger pull at 5lb 2 oz here is a link to the article on Gunblast where I got this information, please see the bottom of the fifth paragraph.
I have not measured mine, as I do not own a trigger pull gauge.
http://www.gunblast.com/Kahr-PM9.htm
My Kahr came with a Mika pocket holster, and a Mika IWB, I agree that to reholster pocket carry you will remove the holster from your pocket, but I doubt that you will remove your IWB every time to reholster.
Again I apologize for this thread becoming a contentious thread, I did not mean it to be. Thank all who replied in a civil manner, and this will be the last post for me.

[OldLincoln]

IraIII, NJ you aren't getting off on the wrong foot! Some folks are just saying to shoot it a bit then decide. We like contrarians, at least I hope so because I am surely one myself. If you want a stiffer trigger by all means see if you can adapt another spring to the cause. Jocko has a 5lb reduced pressure striker spring he swears by - well he swear at about everything. I thought about trying one just for yucks, spring, not swearing.

I suspect you will need to measure up yours for size and compression then go hunting. Gary (gb4691) can likely help as he seems to do a lot of gunsmithing.

Let us know how you are doing with this as curious minds want to know. Oh, and a big welcome to the forum, we really are glad you're here!

[Bawanna]

Absolutely. No need to run off. I don't have a viable solution for you but perhaps there is one out there.
At the risk of taking up sides on an issue that shouldn't require choosing sides I think you seek a solution for a non existent problem.

That being said it appears to be a significant issue for you so lets find a solution. Would'nt hurt to send off an email to Kahr expressing your concerns. Since this is the first time I've heard of anyone wanting a heavier trigger maybe they have a fix we're unaware of.

Your not the first to take a negative vibe from Jocko. Many before you have come to be good friends once they get to know him. I'm still a bit intimidated myself but I have a trophy room full of horse heads too.

Stick around, don't lurk.

[Popeye]

No need to bail out, there are a lot of good people here who only mean well. Also we're all from different parts of the country and sometimes the written word can be misunderstood and comes across sometimes in a manner that we're quite not used to. I grew up in Philly and I'm sure I say things on this forum that people from other parts of the country might take as a liitle rough or blunt at times,but I mean no harm or insult anyone, but it is what it is, and certainly nothing to get upset about. I'm sure knowone here on this forum is trying to insult you in anyway or come across as being rude. It 's just that there is an adjustment period that comes from shooting a revolver with a hammer to and auto pistol with a striker and being comfortable with it.
I'm sure you'd be doing yourself a great injustice by leaving. Stick around and I'm sure over time you'll come to enjoy this cast of characters we have here on Kahr Talk. I know I sure do, even if we might not always agree:7: on certain issues. I have thick skin with more than a few lifes scares on it and a thicker scull and can handle it.:) Speaking only for myself, but I'm sure I'm not the only member who comes to this forum and will say this is one of the best gun forums on the net.