P380 new frame-old gun, ongoing range report

[rogerthedodger]

I report the following:

80+ rounds of Remington UMC
50 rounds of Independance(Blazer)
12 rounds Fiocchi
18 rounds PMC Bronze
4 rounds Winchester White Box (Walmart)

The good:No lite strikes. I even fired 7 rounds that would not fire w/old frame
The bad:Still not locking open on last round. Also 2 stovepipes on last round.
The ugly:It will not feed WWB flat nose bullets. The first round fires, ejects, then it jams with 2nd bullet still on feed ramp. Both 6 and 7 round mags.
Because it has a new frame serial#, I also had to re-qualify to place the gun on my CCW(conceal carry weapon permit). 36 rounds, 12 at 3 yds, 12 at 7 yds, and 12 at 11 yds, and I put them in a 4" group. This little gun puts em where you aim. Of course I cheated, I have a CT laser, sure helps for these 72 yr old eyes.LOL

My plan is to shoot another 50 rounds of FMJ, then try my carry rounds, Hornady CD.
The not locking back on last round not a big deal, my LCP does not either.
Roger

[jocko]

but it should lock back....how about getting another set of recoil springs and then with the set u have now cut off a half coil on the outter spring ans see if that helps any.

[rogerthedodger]

Hmmm, I have the old recoil spring I could try, what do u think, Jocko?? Cut the old one? They sent it to me for the lite strike prob, which it didnt help.

[rogerthedodger]

I polished the inside of the barrel, where the round contacts it, and did some polishing on the breech face, in the area where the round is gripped, oposite the extractor. Went to the range, another 50 blazer, 32 PMC. All feeding and firing well, but then I found I could not remove an unfired round, so quit for the day.
I replaced the new recoil spring that came with the new frame, with the original spring that was in the gun when I bought it, now I can remove unfired rounds.
Went back to the range today, fired 14 blazer, 7 WWB, 18 Hornady FTX, 6 Gold Dot GDHP, and 6 Hornady XTP. This gun now fires everything I put in it, 297 rounds total, on the new frame. I put 600+ rounds thru the slide(old frame), so I have a total of 900 rounds thru it, and it is starting to gain my trust.
Still have not resolved completely last round lock open, but save that for another thread.
Roger

[KahrOwner]

I think that you may have convinced me to go buy some more .380 ammo and to try again.

I think that we may be on to something here - polishing up these rough unfinished areas seems to be the way to go. I'm going to play around some more and see how much I can improve things.

Kahr's repair department is just time wasted IMO. They'll simply swap out some parts and hope for the best - instead time needs to be spent sorting things out properly like a REAL gunsmith does.

I'm not sure that I will EVER really trust my P380 as a defensive handgun but as a fun hobby type project it now has potential since I have recently just written off the $1000+ that I have wasted on it.

Bob

[Whaleman]

Try a new magazine spring or a Wolffs +5% magazine spring for a Kel Tec P3AT. It will lock back better. Dan

[rickdm]

Thanks to all the posts on this forum I was able to figure out that my problems with my P380 were not unique and so I sent it off about six weeks ago. I just got it back. After 100 rounds of mixed Fiocchi, Remington , and WWB it had no problems. I am afraid to keep shooting it because it is doing so well.

The gun came back with a note telling me they had replaced the frame, recoil springs, extractor, ejector, and striker block. The gun came back quite dirty and it appeared that they had done some tuning; polishing had been done at the chamber and feed ramp area of the barrel, there was grinding on the lower barrel bushing opening in the slide, and the interior projecting tab on the slide hold open lever seems to have been ground and polished. So I am pleased that someone seemed to have spent some time with the gun to make sure it operated. I love the gun and hope that I will now be able to carry it with confidence.

rickdm

[KahrOwner]

Thanks to all the posts on this forum I was able to figure out that my problems with my P380 were not unique and so I sent it off about six weeks ago. I just got it back. After 100 rounds of mixed Fiocchi, Remington , and WWB it had no problems. I am afraid to keep shooting it because it is doing so well.

The gun came back with a note telling me they had replaced the frame, recoil springs, extractor, ejector, and striker block. The gun came back quite dirty and it appeared that they had done some tuning; polishing had been done at the chamber and feed ramp area of the barrel, there was grinding on the lower barrel bushing opening in the slide, and the interior projecting tab on the slide hold open lever seems to have been ground and polished. So I am pleased that someone seemed to have spent some time with the gun to make sure it operated. I love the gun and hope that I will now be able to carry it with confidence.

rickdm

It sounds to me like they may be reading our posts!

Bob

[Ikeo74]

I report the following:

80+ rounds of Remington UMC
50 rounds of Independance(Blazer)
12 rounds Fiocchi
18 rounds PMC Bronze
4 rounds Winchester White Box (Walmart)

The good:No lite strikes. I even fired 7 rounds that would not fire w/old frame
The bad:Still not locking open on last round. Also 2 stovepipes on last round.
The ugly:It will not feed WWB flat nose bullets. The first round fires, ejects, then it jams with 2nd bullet still on feed ramp. Both 6 and 7 round mags.
Because it has a new frame serial#, I also had to re-qualify to place the gun on my CCW(conceal carry weapon permit). 36 rounds, 12 at 3 yds, 12 at 7 yds, and 12 at 11 yds, and I put them in a 4" group. This little gun puts em where you aim. Of course I cheated, I have a CT laser, sure helps for these 72 yr old eyes.LOL

My plan is to shoot another 50 rounds of FMJ, then try my carry rounds, Hornady CD.
The not locking back on last round not a big deal, my LCP does not either.
Roger
Advice, Quit trying to shoot WWB flat nose. Many other guns won't shoot them reliably either. When your gun doesn't like a bullet, there is nothing you can do but never chamber another one in the gun.:music:

[KahrOwner]

BTW rickdm, do you have scratches on the bottom surfaces of your slide?

Did they polish around that left breech area?

Just curious...

Bob

[rickdm]

Let me check this evening when I have a little more time.

rickdm

[KahrOwner]

It is my understanding that the slide should run almost solely on the grooves (a Glock slide for example even has a small visible gap underneath it between the slide itself and the frame).

If you are seeing contact scratches in there (as I still am) then there may be some binding between the frame body and the slide.

Even with my new frame and all Kahr's "fixes" my P380 slide still seems to move quite "stickily" compared to the silky ball-bearing smoothness of my Glock slides (this was in my letter to Kahr but they seem to have ignored it completely).

Something (somewhere) is causing that extra friction and I am trying to pin it down to see if I can polish it out.

Bob

[rogerthedodger]

Advice, Quit trying to shoot WWB flat nose. Many other guns won't shoot them reliably either. When your gun doesn't like a bullet, there is nothing you can do but never chamber another one in the gun.:music:
I agree. WWB flat nose now reserved for my LCP, which eats everything!!

[KahrOwner]

Doing a little more poking and I can even see "cutter swirl" marks inside the slide grooves on mine.

No wonder this thing is quite sticky and needs about a gallon of oil to (almost) move smoothly!

So... it is basically like sandpaper riding on sandpaper inside those rail grooves.

I'm now wondering how to polish inside those tight areas.... :rolleyes:

Clearly Kahr doesn't waste any time finishing off these metal and plastic surfaces properly despite the hefty price tag on the P380. My Glock and SIG slides have very smooth internal grooves by comparison.

Bob

[rickdm]

"BTW rickdm, do you have scratches on the bottom surfaces of your slide?

Did they polish around that left breech area?

Just curious..."

No there are no scratches on the bottom of the slide, and they did not seem to polish around the left breech area. However they seemed to have ground down and polished the bottom corner of the new extractor.

I agree that they slide does not feel silky smooth, but it does seem to be operating reliably now.

rickdm

[KahrOwner]

"BTW rickdm, do you have scratches on the bottom surfaces of your slide?

Did they polish around that left breech area?

Just curious..."

No there are no scratches on the bottom of the slide, and they did not seem to polish around the left breech area. However they seemed to have ground down and polished the bottom corner of the new extractor.

I agree that they slide does not feel silky smooth, but it does seem to be operating reliably now.

rickdm

I disassembled my P380 this evening and with some very fine paper (2000 grit) wrapped around small sticks I was able to reduce those cutter swirl (tooling) marks inside the slide grooves quite a bit.

I also polished the inside fine groves at the front of the slide and then their thin rails.

With a jewelers magnifier I was able to see that the insides of the P380 slide grooves are really quite rough and unfinished - the surfaces in there almost look like a file!

I was not able to completely remove the machine cutter marks as it would require much more aggressive scrubbing than I was willing to do - but with a bit of Flitz polish to finish things off it all looked markedly much smoother when I was finished.

I cleaned it all up and then re-lubricated the pistol before reassembly.

During all this I also found two more rough sharp edges right inside the barrel hole of the slide. (More calling Kahr names followed that discovery)

My reassembled pistol and slide now moves much more smoothly than it did before. (Although still not as smoothly as one of my Glock or SIG pistols).

But this is clearly attacking another P380 problem area IMO.

At this time it remains to be seen what effect this smoothing and polishing will have on shooting reliability but I suspect that all the extra slide friction from these rough surfaces is a cause of some of the P380's problems (like stovepipes for example).

Not the way that I wanted to learn gunsmithing Mr. Kahr!

Bob

[rogerthedodger]

Yesterday I shared my P380 with OldLincoln at the range. We put 75 rounds of Blazer Independence, then I ran my carry stuff 12 rounds of Hornady CD(FTX), 12 rounds of Hornady XTP, and 12 rounds of Gold Dot GDHP. All ran well. Before range time, I placed a 7 round spring in each of my (2) 6 round mags, which gave approx. +10% more spring. Only had failure to lock open once, I now ordered the Wolff springs +10% for all my 6 round mags. Next trip, carry rounds only, with full mag + 1 chambered, final test before carry time.:D
Roger

[rogerthedodger]

Another trip to the range, 50 rounds of Hornady CD, had 1 fail to fire, but round looked like it had a decent indent from the firing pin so I fired it again and it went bang. Also, one fail to lock open last round. Time to retire the beast to gun safe duty.

[Bawanna]

Yesterday I shared my P380 with OldLincoln at the range. We put 75 rounds of Blazer Independence, then I ran my carry stuff 12 rounds of Hornady CD(FTX), 12 rounds of Hornady XTP, and 12 rounds of Gold Dot GDHP. All ran well. Before range time, I placed a 7 round spring in each of my (2) 6 round mags, which gave approx. +10% more spring. Only had failure to lock open once, I now ordered the Wolff springs +10% for all my 6 round mags. Next trip, carry rounds only, with full mag + 1 chambered, final test before carry time.:D
Roger

I've heard a rumor that Old Lincoln is a Tom Selleck look alike. Since you met him in person can you verify or confirm that?

[rogerthedodger]

Who's Tom Selleck? Oh yea, that New York Cop. No, I don't think so. Old Lincoln is thinner, gray, and no mustache.:eek:

[Ed Carneal]

Had I read these threads on Kahrtalk prior to purchasing my P380, I probably would not have made the purchased. I bought mine on 31-Dec-11. I've shot three boxes of PMC hardball thru it, plus around 25 rounds of Hydra-shok. The only malfunction I've experienced is two failures to lock open on the last round. Everything else has been flawless thus far.

[Cokeman]

And it will probably get better from here.

[Disapointed]

I think that you may have convinced me to go buy some more .380 ammo and to try again.

I think that we may be on to something here - polishing up these rough unfinished areas seems to be the way to go. I'm going to play around some more and see how much I can improve things.

Kahr's repair department is just time wasted IMO. They'll simply swap out some parts and hope for the best - instead time needs to be spent sorting things out properly like a REAL gunsmith does.

I'm not sure that I will EVER really trust my P380 as a defensive handgun but as a fun hobby type project it now has potential since I have recently just written off the $1000+ that I have wasted on it.

Bob

I'm sorry you and countless others have wasted money on the hereby known as "Piece of Crap p380". Do even the 4 or 5 satisfied owners here trust their life with it? Why won't kahr do the right thing and recall this error?

[CJB]

[QUOTE=rogerthedodger;101988]I report the following:

The bad:Still not locking open on last round. Also 2 stovepipes on last round.
The ugly:It will not feed WWB flat nose bullets. The first round fires, ejects, then it jams with 2nd bullet still on feed ramp. Both 6 and 7 round mags./QUOTE]

A lot of folks have issues with those flat nose WWB... not only with Kahr, but...Bersa, Beretta, the little Sig. Seems a quirky round.

The lock open problem... somehow I think this is going to go away. One thing to check. Make sure the slide moves as far backward with the recoil spring in it, as with the spring out of it. Keep the guide in when doing the test. Extra coils may prohibit the slides full reward movement. Half a coil (or more) too long could do that. The stovepipes are part of the lock back problem. With only the follower under them, and not the top of a round, they're not getting that little extra oomph to actually eject. They shouldn't need that extra oomph, so again... something may be disallowing full travel - check that recoil spring. I only say that because I've seen my share of 1911's do EXACTLY that, under recoil, where the spring was a good two coils longer than the room in the slide would allow - so it would try to kink upon shooting, cause all sorts of issues. Not locking was one of 'em.

[rogerthedodger]

[QUOTE=rogerthedodger;101988]I report the following:

The bad:Still not locking open on last round. Also 2 stovepipes on last round.
The ugly:It will not feed WWB flat nose bullets. The first round fires, ejects, then it jams with 2nd bullet still on feed ramp. Both 6 and 7 round mags./QUOTE]

A lot of folks have issues with those flat nose WWB... not only with Kahr, but...Bersa, Beretta, the little Sig. Seems a quirky round.

The lock open problem... somehow I think this is going to go away. One thing to check. Make sure the slide moves as far backward with the recoil spring in it, as with the spring out of it. Keep the guide in when doing the test. Extra coils may prohibit the slides full reward movement. Half a coil (or more) too long could do that. The stovepipes are part of the lock back problem. With only the follower under them, and not the top of a round, they're not getting that little extra oomph to actually eject. They shouldn't need that extra oomph, so again... something may be disallowing full travel - check that recoil spring. I only say that because I've seen my share of 1911's do EXACTLY that, under recoil, where the spring was a good two coils longer than the room in the slide would allow - so it would try to kink upon shooting, cause all sorts of issues. Not locking was one of 'em.
With the new recoil spring, stovepipes are gone. With a little buffing, slide locks back 9 out of 10. 1 lite strike in 50 rounds makes it a fun gun, and safe queen, a carry gun? No way.

[TominCA]

Winchester white box won't feed in my P380 and it is the most common "bad feeding" p380 ammo I see on the forum. I have good luck with Fed red Box and UMC - Be aware tht all the range ammo (50 to a box under 20 bucks) is not that consistent. You will occasionally get a stovepipe or FTF a next round simply because a cartridge doesn't have the full ampunt o powder in it. On you heavy slide and frame Bersa these will cycle right on through but on the heavy spring P380 there may not be enough ooomph. Or even a marginal limp wrist can catch a low powered cartridge ejecting in a light, heavy spring pistol. I use Cor Bon and Speer Gold Dot as the reliability standard. The most accuratre round I have found? - Suprise - the low powered Prvi 95g FMJ - but there isn't much oomph in them (probably why is they are so easy to control)

[Cokeman]

I just got Prvi and haven't shot it yet. I guess the slide won't be locking back. :mad:

[rogerthedodger]

I agree, and I tried Speer Gold Dot, 50 rounds, 1 lite strike, back to square one with this gun after 1000+ rounds. I had lite strikes before the new frame. So, safe queen, fun gun, gone.

[josp]

I'm sorry you and countless others have wasted money on the hereby known as "Piece of Crap p380". Do even the 4 or 5 satisfied owners here trust their life with it? Why won't kahr do the right thing and recall this error?

Do you still have your P380? You always complain about it and the service you recieved, but have never posted about any other Kahr's good or bad. Seems that's all the experience you have.
To answer your question, yes, I carry mine all the time for my protection. Mine works great. It might be nice to set up a poll of "Good" and "Bad" P380's to set the record straight instread of words like "countless".......

[wlc]

My P380 works well. I have had no issues, my wife had a couple of premature lock backs. Maybe thumb placement? She will need to shoot it more to find out.

[TominCA]

I just got Prvi and haven't shot it yet. I guess the slide won't be locking back. :mad:

Most of them will lock back the slide but some won't especially as the gun gets dirty. I notice as my springs get softer the Prvi shoots better. I actually like the stuff -

The most annoying problem with it isn't the lockback - its the stovepipes as the little case doesn't have enough force when it its the ejector. But hey, it's cheap and I'm the best stovepipe clearer you have ever seen. Fed red box is more powerful.

[rogerthedodger]

Since this is my thread, I want to respond to all of you about my P380 and my attitude to Kahr in general.
My first Kahr was a CW9. It was, and still is the best handling and shooting handgun I have owned.
I purchased the P380, knowing well the problems, from others on this website. I still made the decision, and don't regret the P380 purchase.
I recently purchased a PM9, and it is now becoming my fav as well.
If any of you have purchased a P380 and regret it, sell it and move on, we don't need to hear your regrets over and over. Get over it.
I also hang out on Ruger, and Glock sites, they also have their problems, so go there and do your grumbling.
Roger

[Disapointed]

Do you still have your P380? You always complain about it and the service you recieved, but have never posted about any other Kahr's good or bad. Seems that's all the experience you have.
To answer your question, yes, I carry mine all the time for my protection. Mine works great. It might be nice to set up a poll of "Good" and "Bad" P380's to set the record straight instread of words like "countless".......

Still have the p380 because Kahr has done nothing to contact my wife about it. They have had the gun for 2 weeks now, and nothing. No contact, no gun returned, nothing. I understand there are a lot of happy and loyal Kahr owners on this site. In light of that I have chosen to no longer be negative about anything. Wasn't here to troll or rile anyone up. Her gun was sold severely defective. End of story. A full refund should have been in order, as she requested. The gun was lubed, prepped, shot, broke in correctly, multiple shooter shot it, multiple ammo was ran through it, and it had nothing but problems. Had Kahr issued a full refund on that defective product, I just know she would have purchased a 9mm from them. I guess we've just been lucky because we've purchased well over 20 guns and have never had an "out of the box" issue like this one, except for Taurus. Had 2 issues with them, and have never bought one since, and never will again. I suppose our expectations are high, I would think that is ok with a brand new out of box firearm...

[JodyH]

If any of you have purchased a P380 and regret it, sell it and move on, we don't need to hear your regrets over and over. Get over it.
Get over it sounds good... until its YOU stuck with the $500+ lemon.
Sell it and move on sounds good... until it's YOU taking the $200+ loss.

Try having $1200 worth of guns sitting in Kahr's warranty department for MONTHS at a time only to come back to you still malfunctioning.

:mad:

[CJB]

1. They have had the gun for 2 weeks now, and nothing. No contact, no gun returned, nothing.

2. A full refund should have been in order, as she requested.

3. Had Kahr issued a full refund on that defective product, I just know she would have purchased a 9mm from them.

1. Two WHOLE weeks!!!! OMG OMG OMG OMG... TWO WHOLE F'n WEEKS!!!!!!
Patience is a virtue.

2. Why? Where is that stated anywhere in Kahr's warranty?

3. And why Kahr? Did you/she buy it from Kahr? No. You/She got it from a dealer. Take the blasted thing back to the dealer... or since they sent it to Kahr for you, tell them, just give me a refund or credit, or whatever, and they can keep the gun when it comes back from Kahr.

Kahr owes you a working gun, not money my friend. All the arrogance, impatience and self pity in the world will not change that. How about you go down to the local supermarket, get yourself a box of Wheaties and man up a little bit?

[jjmc2001]

Since this is my thread, I want to respond to all of you about my P380 and my attitude to Kahr in general.
My first Kahr was a CW9. It was, and still is the best handling and shooting handgun I have owned.
I purchased the P380, knowing well the problems, from others on this website. I still made the decision, and don't regret the P380 purchase.
I recently purchased a PM9, and it is now becoming my fav as well.
If any of you have purchased a P380 and regret it, sell it and move on, we don't need to hear your regrets over and over. Get over it.
I also hang out on Ruger, and Glock sites, they also have their problems, so go there and do your grumbling.
Roger
Thanks for saying that. In fact I should have said it myself. My story is just like yours except I haven't bought the PM 9 yet. I am rarely without a Kahr.

[rogerthedodger]

Went to the range today after lots of polishing of frame and rails trying to remove all binding of slide. I shot 30 blazer, one fail to go into battery, I pushed it into battery then fired ok. Shot 70 rounds of Hornady CD, only fail to go into battery once was on first round(My thumb dragged on the slide). No lite strikes, but I kept my eye on the frame to see if it failed to go completely into battery. No failures with the Hornady CD. No lite strikes out of a total of 100 rounds. I think I am close to getting it 100%. I believe the next thing is to polish the hood. I also am just using 6 round mags with the Keltec/Wolff + springs. Locks open last round every time. The 7 round mags didnt alway lock open because of the weaker spring.