New CM9 range first range report

[markrb]

First off I must say I was pleasantly surprised at the recoil. I expected it to be much worse for such a small gun.

I had to get used to the sights as I never had a bar/dot sight before and had expected to have to make it a continuous line, but that caused all my shots to go way low. I adjusted my aim so there was a gap between them and the dot lined up with the top of the cross and my aim improved greatly. I still haven't read the manual on this so shame on me.

I was pretty happy with my groupings, especially for the fist time out.
I had zero failure to fire.
I was able to slingshot without issue the couple of times I tried.
I think the magazine release button is a bit stiff and sometimes takes two hands to get the magazine to completely release (not the drop issue others spoke of). I am hoping this will correct itself with use.

I did experience the nose dive issue on the second round almost half the time. I was using the only magazine I had which is the 6 round one. I used primarily federal 115gr target ammo that has been flawless in my other guns.
I am going to look into doing the sanding on the follower that is posted here somewhere to see if that solves it.

It is truly disappointing that this issue seems to be common enough to warrant some sort of design change, but I haven't seen evidence that it is happening.
I did check the spring before I went to the range and it appears to be installed correctly.
This issue has me a little worried about making this my CCW. I will be giving this gun more scrutiny and it will have to prove itself reliable beyond reason before I will trust it.

Mark

[Bill K]

Hi Mark,

I feel you're justified in being worried. You need to get that nose dive issue fixed/resolved and then build your confidence in the guns reliability before making it your CCW. Folks here will help you get that nose dive issue resolved.

[jocko]

MARKB; the magazine follower is grabbing the magazine release. go to the kahr tech section and hit on the sticky propper prepping of ur new kahr and scroll on down. It will tell u how to see if that is theissue and how to fix it in 5 minutes. We aren't sure if it is the follower or the mag butto a tad out of spec but the sanding of the follower is the easiest andless intrusive AND IT WORKS. Might take you 10 minutes.

The stiff mag button, . look in the kahr tech section under cw45 fixes by GB6491 (it s a sticky also) he has a photo tutorial of how to see that mag button spring which is realy just aone peace rod. It could be that the rod is not fully inserted in the slot p[roperly and causing this stiffness. again aa 5 minute thing and more than likely just needs reinserted correctly.

[markrb]

I sanded the follower and took the gun to the range this morning.

The first 65 rounds were flawless and I was starting to think I had fixed it.
The following magazine proved me wrong as the second round nose dived.

I shot another 3 magazines after that without issue, but it still shows me there is still something that is not right. A great improvement over the 50% nose diving I had before, but still not carry worthy, yet.

I will sand a little more and if that still doesn't fix it I will trim the recoil spring a bit to see if that solves it like it did for hoghunter.

Mark

[pilotmattk]

Try to pay attention to which round in the mag is hanging up and if you have multiple mags, keep track if it's one or both. Then set the gun up in that configuration continually to test it. I figured out that it's always the 2nd round on mine (both mags) and it would happen a 2-3 times on a 50 round box. By continually topping off the mag I could re-create the problem more often on less ammo. Additionally, the more rounds I've run through mine, the worse it has become.

I've run 6 ammo types through mine for various reasons (Blazer, WWB, Fed Campion, Fed HST JHP, Speer Lawman, UMC) and verified nosedives on them all.

Sound like yours will be in line behind mine at Kahr for a warranty repair.

-Matt

[gb6491]

I sanded the follower and took the gun to the range this morning.

The first 65 rounds were flawless and I was starting to think I had fixed it.
The following magazine proved me wrong as the second round nose dived.

I shot another 3 magazines after that without issue, but it still shows me there is still something that is not right. A great improvement over the 50% nose diving I had before, but still not carry worthy, yet.

I will sand a little more and if that still doesn't fix it I will trim the recoil spring a bit to see if that solves it like it did for hoghunter.

Mark
Mark,
Here is some info from pilotmattk's thread that might be of interest to you in regards to second round nose dives:

First post, first Kahr. Super disappointed right now with the unreliability of my CM9 at 600 rounds (well past break in). It consistently nosedives on the 2nd round out of the mag on both the 7 and 6 round mags. It sometimes has problems feeding the first round (both when releasing slide lock and when slingshoting). Looks like it's going back to Kahr next week. It's not the follower hanging up because at round 2 it is still way below the mag catch hole. I'll follow up here when it gets back from Kahr.


Welcome to the forums!
Sorry to hear about the issue with your new pistol.
You might want to look over some threads started by Hoghunter. He had similar issue with his CM9.
Kahr fixed it by trimming the recoil spring. Here is the post where he talks about what Kahr did: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8657
Here's the thread about the results: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8657
Regards,
GregYes that was me. I did everything I could with the followers and no luck. I had EXACTLY the same issue you had. I put 400 rounds down the pipe before I gave up and sent it back to Kahr. All they did was snip the recoil spring (I have no idea how much because I did not take a pic before I sent it) and it works flawlessly now. No issues at all. 100% PERFECT. If you have not done so, I would recommend at least checking the mag springs first to ensure they are not backwards. When you get it back from Kahr you MUST check you mag springs. All three of my mags were assembled backwards when I got them back from Kahr. You have got a great gun on your hands. I know it does not feel that way right now. I went through the same emotions you are going though. But once you get it back from Kahr it will be fixed and you will love the CM9. Stay positive, let the experts at Kahr fix it for you, and you will be rewarded with a fine pistol.
Feel free to send me a PM if you have questions.
HOGHUNTER
Regards,
Greg

[markrb]

It is always the 2nd round and I only have one magazine.

I bought mine through Davidson so forget warranty repair I will just get a replacement and keep getting a replacement until the thing works correctly. That is why I bought it through them. Lifetime replacement warranty.

Mark

[markrb]

I have decided that if this continues I will not be doing the mod myself. I will either get a replacement through Davidson or send it to Kahr to have it fixed.

I don't like the potential legal issues a "modified" gun may cause. Also if we do this ourselves and don't make it more trouble then it's worth the root cause will never be solved.

Mark

[Rainman48314]

It is always the 2nd round and I only have one magazine.

I bought mine through Davidson so forget warranty repair I will just get a replacement and keep getting a replacement until the thing works correctly. That is why I bought it through them. Lifetime replacement warranty.

Mark
Do you know for a fact that the Davidson warranty works that way? My understanding was guns currently produced went back to the manufacturer. The only time you got a new gun was if it could not be fixed and was out of production.

My unsolicited advice is get it flawless with 300 FMJ rounds and then follow that with 300 of your intended SD ammo before you carry it for SD. If a gun is perfect out of the box, I feel good about reducing the number of trial rounds to 250 FMJ and 100 HP.

[harvs12]

I have purchased my first Kahr and it too is a new CM9. I have nothing but worries with this gun before I even shoot it. I've spoke to jocko here already about all the fixes and what to do to prep it, but my god this really is rediculous. I've never purchased a handgun and read soo many issues with it. I'm thinking about selling it before I even use it:( Does the PM9 have these issues as well? Maybe I should just upgrade? I'm not one who really wants to start modifying a handgun either for obvious reasons, not to mention Kahe should be taking care of this not US.

[Rainman48314]

I have purchased my first Kahr and it too is a new CM9. I have nothing but worries with this gun before I even shoot it. I've spoke to jocko here already about all the fixes and what to do to prep it, but my god this really is rediculous. I've never purchased a handgun and read soo many issues with it. I'm thinking about selling it before I even use it:( Does the PM9 have these issues as well? Maybe I should just upgrade? I'm not one who really wants to start modifying a handgun either for obvious reasons, not to mention Kahe should be taking care of this not US.The PM9 and CM9 share the design and same internals. You will lose close to 40-50% of what you paid as the only way to upgrade is to sell your CM9 as a used gun.

Service from gun manufacturers is pretty good (be sure they pay shipping), give it a shot. There's only upside to where you are now.

[JFootin]

I have purchased my first Kahr and it too is a new CM9. I have nothing but worries with this gun before I even shoot it. I've spoke to jocko here already about all the fixes and what to do to prep it, but my god this really is rediculous. I've never purchased a handgun and read soo many issues with it. I'm thinking about selling it before I even use it:( Does the PM9 have these issues as well? Maybe I should just upgrade? I'm not one who really wants to start modifying a handgun either for obvious reasons, not to mention Kahr should be taking care of this not US.

They are essentially the same gun. Plus, you will most likely be among the large, large majority of CM9 owners who never have a problem with their gun. Don't get paranoid from reading the problems on a gun forum. For every one person who has a problem and posts here to get some help or a sympathetic ear, there are hundreds of people who are enjoying their guns and see no reason to ever come on the forum. That's what you see mostly on every gun forum - problems. What is amazing is that the majority of posts about CM9s and PM9s here are positive! Great range reports, happy owners! Ask Bawanna, or Jocko or any of the regulars and they'll tell you how unusual this is, and how it speaks to what a great gun the CM9 is!

Like Jocko says, do the stuff in the prep stickies and go shoot it like you stole it!

[harvs12]

The PM9 and CM9 share the design and same internals. You will lose close to 40-50% of what you paid as the only way to upgrade is to sell your CM9 as a used gun.

Service from gun manufacturers is pretty good (be sure they pay shipping), give it a shot. There's only upside to where you are now.


It's not used it has never been shot.

[harvs12]

They are essentially the same gun. Plus, you will most likely be among the large, large majority of CM9 owners who never have a problem with their gun. Don't get paranoid from reading the problems on a gun forum. For every one person who has a problem and posts here to get some help or a sympathetic ear, there are hundreds of people who are enjoying their guns and see no reason to ever come on the forum. That's what you see mostly on every gun forum - problems. What is amazing is that the majority of posts about CM9s and PM9s here are positive! Great range reports, happy owners! Ask Bawanna, or Jocko or any of the regulars and they'll tell you how unusual this is, and how it speaks to what a great gun the CM9 is!

Like Jocko says, do the stuff in the prep stickies and go shoot it like you stole it!


Ahh...I like the sound of that better:music:

[markrb]

Do you know for a fact that the Davidson warranty works that way? My understanding was guns currently produced went back to the manufacturer. The only time you got a new gun was if it could not be fixed and was out of production.

My unsolicited advice is get it flawless with 300 FMJ rounds and then follow that with 300 of your intended SD ammo before you carry it for SD. If a gun is perfect out of the box, I feel good about reducing the number of trial rounds to 250 FMJ and 100 HP.

Direct from Davidson's web page and I have had one replaced already as it had a crack in the slide before I even shot it.

It works like this......

If anything ever goes wrong with any gun you buy with the Davidson's GuaranteeDSM Lifetime Replacement Warranty, it will be replaced. If no replacement is available, it will be repaired at no charge to you. Simple, just return it to the GuaranteeDSM retailer where you purchased it, pay for the return shipping and upon receipt Davidson's will ship you * BRAND NEW GUN.

[markrb]

I went to the range this weekend with a co-worker who is a former full time gun smith and shot the CM9.
Nose dive issues on the second round on 50% again. Each time my buddy looked at it and tried to see if he could find an obvious root cause. He had theories, but from looking couldn't pick out one thing that was a surefire fix. He did call the issue "troubling" and said he would not trust this gun and that I should send it back and not to trust a replacement until I have had hundreds of issue free rounds through it.

On Monday I am bringing it back to my dealer to get my second replacement in about a month.

I am really starting to regret getting this.

Mark

[Rainman48314]

I went to the range this weekend with a co-worker who is a former full time gun smith and shot the CM9.
Nose dive issues on the second round on 50% again. Each time my buddy looked at it and tried to see if he could find an obvious root cause. He had theories, but from looking couldn't pick out one thing that was a surefire fix. He did call the issue "troubling" and said he would not trust this gun and that I should send it back and not to trust a replacement until I have had hundreds of issue free rounds through it.

On Monday I am bringing it back to my dealer to get my second replacement in about a month.

I am really starting to regret getting this.

MarkIs going to the dealer for an exchange a routine practice in your State? Its impossible here in Michigan. Dealers refer you to deal direct with the manufacturer on NEW guns. I submitted a gun to Sig thru my dealer (dealer sent it and obtained RMA #) because I bought it used and their tech guy was not a Sig Certified Armorer. Sig questioned why I went thru a dealer. Told me to deal direct. On a new Sig I returned, I did go direct, the same dealer said they were not involved. Same message at S&W.

[Rainman48314]

Direct from Davidson's web page and I have had one replaced already as it had a crack in the slide before I even shot it.

It works like this......

If anything ever goes wrong with any gun you buy with the Davidson's GuaranteeDSM Lifetime Replacement Warranty, it will be replaced. If no replacement is available, it will be repaired at no charge to you. Simple, just return it to the GuaranteeDSM retailer where you purchased it, pay for the return shipping and upon receipt Davidson's will ship you * BRAND NEW GUN.That's a good guarantee except for the shipping. I just paid $61 to ship my HK to GA from MI. Initially, FedEx wanted over $200 when I declared a value of $799.

[Rainman48314]

It's not used it has never been shot.
Some would accept that logic, many feel once its registered to a buyer, its used for the next guy. Kinda like a car you drive 10 feet off the lot. You'd get a better price than truly used guns and a dealer could want to maintain a relationship and give you full value. Keep us posted.

[jocko]

That's a good guarantee except for the shipping. I just paid $61 to ship my HK to GA from MI. Initially, FedEx wanted over $200 when I declared a value of $799.

not issue a pre paid pickup???

[Rainman48314]

not issue a pre paid pickup???
Nope, they knew it was used (30years old gun) because it was there for service in 2008 by a different owner. HK warranty is for the lifetime of the original owner. I may yet have more to pay. They didn't like that it had been hard chromed.

[jocko]

damn records!!!!