Recoil assembly comparison

[JimC]

As I was getting my stuff ready for a range session tomorrow, I thought I might change out the original recoil assembly in my PM9 which has 967 rounds on it and check the function with a new assembly.

When comparing the two SxS, I was a little surprised to see the drastic difference between them.

When I ordered the replacement I asked Kahr customer service how often they recommended replacing it. I was told 1200-1500 rounds or every couple years if the weapon is used for carry.

I'll first shoot it with the original assembly. It has been running 100% and then I'll decide from there if I will change it out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_0351_975x731_txtcopy.jpg

[gb6491]

The "set" of the used spring doesn't surprise me much, but the difference in coil count would give me some concern.
Regards,
Greg

[OldLincoln]

I'd say shoot the old spring tomorrow if all has been right with it. Call Kahr and ask about the 12 coils in the old vs the 14 in the new springs. Be sure to describe your slide to them as they made a change resulting in an "old" and a "new" recoil spring.

[JimC]

The set didn't surprise me either until I saw the two SxS and the difference in length.

The reason that I figured that I would change the assembly out is that I plan on shooting enough rounds to go over the 1200 min. set by Kahr for a carry gun.

I figured I would do most of my shooting with the original assembly and then replace it and run 50 or so rounds on the new one to check function.

I want to chronograph some loads thru the PM9.

That's my plan anyway. ;)

[JimC]

I'd say shoot the old spring tomorrow if all has been right with it. Call Kahr and ask about the 12 coils in the old vs the 14 in the new springs. Be sure to describe your slide to them as they made a change resulting in an "old" and a "new" recoil spring.

Originally I orderd the PM Series Spring Maintenance Kit. It was listed as the new style spring(s).

Kahr's description has the older style w/13 coils and the new style w/15 coils. Mine actually has 14.5 coils.

[knkali]

will the spring even fit?

[LordJ]

Doesn't the top one only have 2 more coils than the bottom one? I say it's fine, difference seems drastic only because the older one is more compressed.

[Ikeo74]

Another thought, there could be a difference in the stiffness of the spring itself. The new one may have less compression, thus the extra length.

[JimC]

will the spring even fit?

It will fit. It's very hard to get it to seat. I seriously doubt if it will run 100%. :confused:

I can hardly work the slide. It's way stiffer than the pistol was NIB.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_0353_975x731.jpg

[jocko]

give it 50- rounds down range and I bet it will shoot itself in..

[JimC]

give it 50- rounds down range and I bet it will shoot itself in..

I hope your correct if for no other reason just to make my life a lot easier. :D

I ordered two additional recoil assemblies this afternoon from Kahr for inventory.

[jocko]

well they ship um wsith that strong assembly in the guns so they must work, we have as u know read of owners who get a new one and can't lock the slide back etc and tend to panic. Now IMO it should lock back from the git bo but I would bet if you take a new recoil outter spring and lay it on a peace of paper and measure it correctly and then after shooting 50 to 100 rounds down range that spring will have taken a pre-designed set of at least 1/2". We know after owners shoot their kahrs a few rounds down range they say it is much easier to rack. IMO it is now that recol spring has taken its designed set and all is well. I don't want to add to your stress Jim, so take my word for it, it will be OK. Maybe even if my theory is right, u outta take those two new outter springs and "shoot um in" so as to when u need it, it wll be ready to go.

I must say the ol 13 coil blunt nose PM9 never seemed to have any complaints like we do read with the beveled slide recoil assembly. I do remember though saying my PM9 at first was a real bit-h to hand rack, but after awhile it was OK. I just figured I learned how to hand rack my kahr better than at first. Probalby the spring took its set and I didn't realize what good it had done for me.

[rjt123]

It will fit. It's very hard to get it to seat. I seriously doubt if it will run 100%. :confused:

I can hardly work the slide. It's way stiffer than the pistol was NIB.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_0353_975x731.jpg


I just replaced the recoil assembly in my PM9 and took it to the range. I put 100 rounds through it, and it ran great!

As far as will it fit, you're right...it was a real booger to get that new spring in there, and it was super-tight. But as I said, it shot great at the range. I will say, however, that the coil count on my old and new springs matched (I checked). This may have to do with the relative age of our two pistols (my serial number is ID###). And I made sure to order the "new style" assembly.

[JimC]

I just replaced the recoil assembly in my PM9 and took it to the range. I put 100 rounds through it, and it ran great!

As far as will it fit, you're right...it was a real booger to get that new spring in there, and it was super-tight. But as I said, it shot great at the range. I will say, however, that the coil count on my old and new springs matched (I checked). This may have to do with the relative age of our two pistols (my serial number is ID###). And I made sure to order the "new style" assembly.

My PM9 is also the newer version ser.# ID17XX and the recoil assembly you see in my upper is the new style.

Unfortunately I have not yet been able to test fire the pistol with the new assembly in place.

[MrToad]

FWIW, I've seen this with my K40 and had a thread a while backing with regard to the obvious discrepancy between an older recoil spring and Kahr's newest version (purchased earlier this year) for that model. I'd be curious if all or most newer recoil springs from Kahr have a higher coil count than previous versions.

[JimC]

Originally I orderd the PM Series Spring Maintenance Kit. It was listed as the new style spring(s).

Kahr's description has the older style w/13 coils and the new style w/15 coils. Mine actually has 14.5 coils.

Well, now I'm slightly confused as far as coil count goes. :confused:
I received my two recoil assemblies last week from Kahr.
They are listed as SKU# 005PM9BS-N (new?) and I count 13.5 coils on each.
The description indicates Recoil Assembly New Style.
Some here are of the opinion that the older assemblies were 13 coils and possibly they were but the NEW ones that I received are 13.5.
So much for 14 or 15 coil count for the PM9 I guess.

[Rubb]

I’m nearing 1500 rounds and have been looking into replacing mine.
I have the older(less than 15) spring.
The question I have…which one is Wolff shipping :confused:

[jocko]

Well, now I'm slightly confused as far as coil count goes. :confused:
I received my two recoil assemblies last week from Kahr.
They are listed as SKU# 005PM9BS-N (new?) and I count 13.5 coils on each.
The description indicates Recoil Assembly New Style.
Some here are of the opinion that the older assemblies were 13 coils and possibly they were but the NEW ones that I received are 13.5.
So much for 14 or 15 coil count for the PM9 I guess.

got this answerr back from kahr:

Good morning. I do not work in the parts department but likely he received
an old style by mistake. 13 coils is the old assembly and 15 is the new
style. If he emails sales@kahr.com I am sure they will simply send him a
replacement. I hope this information helps.
sincerely,

[jocko]

I’m nearing 1500 rounds and have been looking into replacing mine.
I have the older(less than 15) spring.
The question I have…which one is Wolff shipping :confused:

if u have the older style slide, with ther blunt noxe (glock style) version u recoil system takes the 13 coil outter spring. Ucan go direct to wolffs (gunsprings.com) and 9order that outter sprng only in 18# factory or 20.5 spring strength.

If u have the beleveld slide version which is now on all new kahrs and has been for the past couple of years, then you cannot order an poutter spring from wolffs (yet) as that spring is the 15 coil count version and none are available yet. so uy must order the complete recoil assembly from kahr at a cost of around $25 plus postage, IMO a rip off but that is the wayit is. Also if you order from kahr the older style recoil assembly you must also order the complete recoil assembly for the older style at a cost of $25 plus postage. again IMO a rip off, as kahr used to just sell the outter recoil spreing which is all that is needed to bne replaced.

Thi8s also is the same for all PM40 kahrs to, as they use the exact same recoil spring assembly .

IF U HAVE THE BLUNT NOSE KAHR BUY UR SPRINGS DIRECT FORM WOLFFS AND SAVE BIG BUCKS.

[JimC]

got this answerr back from kahr:

Good morning. I do not work in the parts department but likely he received
an old style by mistake. 13 coils is the old assembly and 15 is the new
style. If he emails sales@kahr.com I am sure they will simply send him a
replacement. I hope this information helps.
sincerely,

E-mail sent to address above inquiring about my order.

[DJK11]

Contrary to Jocko's comments, the Wolffs PM9 recoil springs will function perfectly in the new slide PM9. I have the Wolffs springs installed in my new slide PM9 with over 2500 rnds fired without a malfunction. I ran the OEM springs about 1600 rnds before the change. Total 4100 rnd count.

I phoned Wolffs back in February and they said it will work so I purchased two sets. When Jocko contacted them, they told him they won't work.

Soooo the discussion continues.

Until next time.

[jocko]

oh they will work, but according to kahr they are not the correct springs. I have no doubt ANY SHORTER recoil spring will work in most any semi, but not vice versa. U can't get the 15 coils sprngs in the old style kahr slide. so I am not arguing ur point. Wolffs when I had contacted them, HAD NO knowledge even of a kahr slide change So there has to be a reason why kahgr went with the 15 coil recoil sprngs in the newer slide and that one reason is .20 longer slide. One cannot use the shorter version old style recoil tube in the new style kahrs.

In my case I am just the messenger here. I am quoting what kahr told me, one can travel at his own pace in which way to go. I have no doubt wolffs will eventually come out withy the 15 coil outter spring for the new style kahr slides, and again there is a reason for that to. I donot see them saying in their description on their webb site that the outtr springs they are selling now will fit the new style longer slides. To me it would just make sense that a longer slide would require a longer recoil spring, but again I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer either..:banplease:

[Ressom]

I ordered a recoil spring assembly for my CM9 last week. They sent a 15 coil spring. My previous one was 14.5 coils. Put it in and it was pretty tight. I forgot how tight this gun was when new. I opened up the last coil a little and that smoothed the racking.

Went to the range on Saturday. 100 rounds through it without any issues.

[jocko]

I guess it is all how one counts, 14.5 sound stome like a 15 coil spring. U did the right thing, they might be a real bit-h to install but they will shoot themselves in after 50 rounds, and, probably locking the slide back over night or a few days certainly as to help somewhat. Notning better than the actual "bang" thing though to work a recoil spring set in the way they are designed. Opening up that end was a wise move to. This little tid bit of info came from this forum buy members who figured out this stuff themselves. That to mer is wha tthis forum is all about..

[jocko]

yup sure is compare it to the new version and the front of the slide is beveled. IMO the blunt nose version is the "cream de cream". I guess my point was the PM9 and PM40 was made to be as small as possalbe and concealable as possable and then kahr changes the slide to a length of .20 which ain't much but it is more than what you have now, which my question was "what did they gain from this"??? Now we have two sets of different recoil spring assemblies, which not only confuses the owners but also the kahr order people to, for they seem to send the wrong sets to many, now we have a tad longer barrel and a heavier gun and a bigger gun and WHY??? Your gun pictured takes the 13 coil recoil assembly. 15 or 14.5 will not begin to fit and the 15 coil recoil rod also sticks out beyound the end of ur slide also..

Hold on to what u got for IMO that gun i9s a dandy.

[Rubb]

yup sure is compare it to the new version and the front of the slide is beveled. IMO the blunt nose version is the "cream de cream". I guess my point was the PM9 and PM40 was made to be as small as possalbe and concealable as possable and then kahr changes the slide to a length of .20 which ain't much but it is more than what you have now, which my question was "what did they gain from this"??? Now we have two sets of different recoil spring assemblies, which not only confuses the owners but also the kahr order people to, for they seem to send the wrong sets to many, now we have a tad longer barrel and a heavier gun and a bigger gun and WHY??? Your gun pictured takes the 13 coil recoil assembly. 15 or 14.5 will not begin to fit and the 15 coil recoil rod also sticks out beyound the end of ur slide also..

Hold on to what u got for IMO that gun i9s a dandy.

Ok……thank you :)

[JimC]

got this answerr back from kahr:

Good morning. I do not work in the parts department but likely he received
an old style by mistake. 13 coils is the old assembly and 15 is the new
style. If he emails sales@kahr.com I am sure they will simply send him a
replacement. I hope this information helps.
sincerely,

This is the response that I received from Kahr on the spring issue.


Good afternoon.

Our recoil assemblies now go out with the same external spring. The determining factor is the length of the guide rod. If the guide rod fits and the firearm functions there is no issue. If there are failures with the firearm we will be able to go from there.

Have a good day from Kahr.

Eoin Pryal.
Kahr Arms.

Now it seems that all the conversation about coil count has a new twist (no pun intended). They are with the same exact spring but, the guide rod is the determining factor wether or not the pistol functions.

Next...;)

[Rubb]

So if the average Joe buys a used PM9 that had the old style recoil assembly replaced already ….he’ll surely order
the wrong assembly when he replaces it himself…and guided to do so by Kahr:confused:




Recoil Spring Guide Assembly for Old Style PM9. To determine old and new you need to count the coils on the outer recoil spring. Old style outer spring has 13 coils. New style outer recoil spring has 15 coils.

http://www.kahr.com/Pistol-Parts/Kahr-005PM9-Recoil-Assembly-Old-Style.asp

[jocko]

JUST BUY THE SPRINGS FROM WOLFFS DIRECT AND SAVE BIG BUCKS u don'tneed the entire assembly, just replace the outter spring and wiolffs sells um.. I a sure if u call kahgr and need the entire assembly and tell them specifically what you want etc, you will get the right one???

[jocko]

well Jim C, if what that fella is saying,m then I wonder what outside spring is now the correct one. I just don't think one can put a 15 coil springin the old style blunt nose slides, so to me it would make some sense if that is their game plan to now ship um with the 13 coil spring which we know will work in both, but as u know their order site shows two different outter coils. wow, what a mess.

I am at a loss to explain why two people insode at kahr cannot get their stories correct and then they expect us to operate correctly with false information. I will get the correct information in the next couple of days. sorry if I confused anyone, as I am merely the messenger here with what I get from people inside at kahr. Guess it now depends on what day u call and who answers the phone as to what story ur gonna get..

[jocko]

Well, now I'm slightly confused as far as coil count goes. :confused:
I received my two recoil assemblies last week from Kahr.
They are listed as SKU# 005PM9BS-N (new?) and I count 13.5 coils on each.
The description indicates Recoil Assembly New Style.
Some here are of the opinion that the older assemblies were 13 coils and possibly they were but the NEW ones that I received are 13.5.
So much for 14 or 15 coil count for the PM9 I guess.

going back to Jim C post, that he is now receiving the new set up for all new style kahr slides. They must have went back to the old style outter recoil spring which if so, then one can just go on line and order the outter recoil springs direct from wolffs and save big bucks, plus u have the option to order the factory 18# or the 20.5# recoil springs

Thanks Jim for I think putting some more clarity to this recoil thing...

[JimC]

IMO. two things have led to the confusion in regard to this issue as well as others when it comes to Kahr pistols.

One, getting info directly from Kahr Arms which may change as to whom you speak with either on the phone or via e-mail.

Kahr needs to get their s#*t together as far as what they tell their customers. :mad:

Two, opinions from posters here and other forums and for the most part, those opinions being just that, opinions and we all know what opinions are like. :eek:

For myself, I will replace my original assembly with one of the three new ones that I have when the time comes. I will hope that the pistol runs 100% and if not...Kahr Arms will be hearing from me.

[JimC]

going back to Jim C post, that he is now receiving the new set up for all new style kahr slides. They must have went back to the old style outter recoil spring which if so, then one can just go on line and order the outter recoil springs direct from wolffs and save big bucks, plus u have the option to order the factory 18# or the 20.5# recoil springs

Thanks Jim for I think putting some more clarity to this recoil thing...

If I use my best imagination when counting the new assemblies, I MAY be able to see 14 coils but, the coils on either and are not full and that is how I have come up with 13.5 coils.

[Ressom]

I ordered a recoil spring assembly for my CM9 last week. They sent a 15 coil spring. My previous one was 14.5 coils. Put it in and it was pretty tight. I forgot how tight this gun was when new. I opened up the last coil a little and that smoothed the racking.

Went to the range on Saturday. 100 rounds through it without any issues.

Just to clarify, I ordered the CM9 recoil assembly (part number 005CM9 Recoil Assembly) and it was 15 coils.

You guys with newer PM9's might just want to order the CM9 one.

[Kenjs2]

Maybe I'm just dense because I have a hard time following all of this. I am wondering if there is anyway we could get a blueprint of the actual design and operation for these various problem models? I remember back to my racing days when one of the first things we did was have the engine "blueprinted". Does anyone here know the actual specs (with tolerances) on any of these models? It's one thing to take an individual pistol and grind, polish, snip or bend here or there to fix an individual pistol but that won't necessarily help all of us. If it works for your pistol it may just "muddy up the water" for someone else. How about a blueprint thread that we can all use to at least get all our pistols up to spec.? I realize that some specs would be impossible for some of us to verify but a lot of this is verifiable.
I think we would all agree that sometimes this can get very irrating.
Just a thought...

[jocko]

Just to clarify, I ordered the CM9 recoil assembly (part number 005CM9 Recoil Assembly) and it was 15 coils.

You guys with newer PM9's might just want to order the CM9 one.

got this today from a kahr tech person

I will have to look into this. I am not aware of any engineering or
production changes

[jocko]

Maybe I'm just dense because I have a hard time following all of this. I am wondering if there is anyway we could get a blueprint of the actual design and operation for these various problem models? I remember back to my racing days when one of the first things we did was have the engine "blueprinted". Does anyone here know the actual specs (with tolerances) on any of these models? It's one thing to take an individual pistol and grind, polish, snip or bend here or there to fix an individual pistol but that won't necessarily help all of us. If it works for your pistol it may just "muddy up the water" for someone else. How about a blueprint thread that we can all use to at least get all our pistols up to spec.? I realize that some specs would be impossible for some of us to verify but a lot of this is verifiable.
I think we would all agree that sometimes this can get very irrating.
Just a thought...

arenot engines, kahr is not goinbg to release any "blueprint" stuff to us or anyonje else. try it with any gun maker, just an't gonna happen.

U HAD UR ENGINE BLUE PRINTED, not the maker and as u know a blue printed engine for u i9s not the same as a blue printed engine from the same maker either. Yes it gets irritating but we are tryinbg to get a positive answer and so far it has not been good. certrainl.y some people in departments that I think should know whgat they are talking about are not on the same page with eachother, so irt leaves us totally in the dark to..

[jocko]

Just to clarify, I ordered the CM9 recoil assembly (part number 005CM9 Recoil Assembly) and it was 15 coils.

You guys with newer PM9's might just want to order the CM9 one.

actually the same part.

[jocko]

Just to clarify, I ordered the CM9 recoil assembly (part number 005CM9 Recoil Assembly) and it was 15 coils.

You guys with newer PM9's might just want to order the CM9 one.

just got this today from kahr tech, whoim I will not mention;


Good afternoon. I have talked with our department head and he has told me
there are 13 coil assemblies (old style) and 15 coil assemblies (new
style). I hope this information helps.
sincerely


now if ur getting a new style reecoil rod assemblyt with the 13 coil outter sprng on it for your new style kahrs according to this: THAT IS WRONG.