Relaod night-stand gun each night?

[CarlCyrus]

I always put my loaded MK9 on the night stand along with a very bright hand-held light each night before I go to bed.

For a while I racked the slide ejecting a round, pulled the mag and put the round back into the mag.

Lately I've gotten used to checking the extractor (rides high when a round is in the chamber), rather than racking the slide.

What say ye? Should I deliberately reload it each night, or is checking the extractor for the presence of a round sufficient?

Carl

[JFootin]

There is another thread where it is discussed how dangerous it can be to load a round into a semi-auto multiple times because the bullet can get shoved beck into the case, increasing pressure dangerously. Also, the bullet can get dinged and damaged. If you eject a round, DO NOT put it back in the top of the mag. Put it in a box and use it at the range, or at least wait until the next time you are loading a mag and put it in the bottom so it doesn't get chambered and ejected multiple times.

[Thunder71]

What Tucson said.

Goes to bed loaded, wakes up loaded... I know it's loaded, saves me from messing with it.

[Unythios]

I always unload my CM9 every morning and put it away and chamber a round every night before bed. Mainly because I don't want the wrong hands getting on it and I don't carry yet. Sent my paper work out today when I get it back it will stay loaded.

I've never thought about it ramming the projectile down into the casing causing pressure issues. Hmm might have to be more careful.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

[Michael W.]

I always unload my CM9 every morning and put it away and chamber a round every night before bed. Mainly because I don't want the wrong hands getting on it and I don't carry yet. Sent my paper work out today when I get it back it will stay loaded.

I've never thought about it ramming the projectile down into the casing causing pressure issues. Hmm might have to be more careful.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

Bullet set back is a very real danger if you are in the habit of
repeatedly running the same round into the chamber.

Having said that, drilling into my family Jeff Coopers first rule of gun
handling, I make my kids and wife religiously press check even if they
just watched me unload a weapon and hand it to them. This habit
cannot be stressed enough. I press check all my guns every single
time I pick them up. If I have to eject a round for whatever reason.
(I'm taking the gun to the range etc) I use a black Sharpie and mark
the round that gets ejected. That round never goes back in the chamber
but goes down into the mag in rotation and a fresh round gets chambered.
When I get enough "marked" rounds to fill a mag I'll just take them to
the range and shoot them off.

Since I keep many guns loaded in the house in various safes around
the house, this system keeps me from getting too confused about what
gun is loaded and what is not, and also to keep from re-chambering the
same round more than once.

Michael-

[tv_racin_fan]

Bullet setback is very real indeed. Yet I loaded and reloaded and reloaded a few rounds to test it out and not one of them moved 1000th that I could determine. Still I look very closely when I eject and reload a round and after a few reloads (generally they get a bit scratched up) they get put into a box for range fodder regardles.

I do not rely on the loaded chamber indicator, I press check.

I generally remind people who I hand a firearm to of their need to check to make sure it is or isn't loaded.

[MW surveyor]

Bullet setback is very real indeed. Yet I loaded and reloaded and reloaded a few rounds to test it out and not one of them moved 1000th that I could determine. .

Did you measure with a caliper? Some rounds seem to move more than others and it might take a while before you can really notice any difference using a MK1 mod 2 eyeball. :D

[muggsy]

Not to be a wet blanket, but if recoil doesn't cause bullet setback then I highly doubt that chambering a round will. Scratches have no effect at practical effect on bullet accuracy.

[MW surveyor]

Not to be a wet blanket, but if recoil doesn't cause bullet setback then I highly doubt that chambering a round will. Scratches have no effect at practical effect on bullet accuracy.

Beg to differ with you on this. There are numerous threads on multiple forums that have discussed the set back of bullets in rounds that are being continuously re-chambered. Just do a google search and you will see that this is a real event. Single chambering, no problem, multiple, problems can develop.

[Rubb]

Some guns/ammo are more prone than others, the only way to know for sure is to test your ammo in your gun…even then there could be variations in ammo IMO. I use the same method as Michael, 4 chamberings max for the PM9 and 1 for the LCP.

[Rainman48314]

Some guns/ammo are more prone than others, the only way to know for sure is to test your ammo in your gun…even then there could be variations in ammo IMO. I use the same method as Michael, 4 chamberings max for the PM9 and 1 for the LCP.I have had some concern since I first read about this earlier this year. I'm going with 2 chamberings and marking with a sharpie.

[Popeye]

I know for a fact that my RIA 1911 will knock the bullet back into the case if you keep trying to put it back in the barrel to many times. The .380 Hornadays HP's in my P3at have are made so this problem does not happen. I have seen some 9mm WWB target ammo push back also if chambered to many times.

[Rainman48314]

I know for a fact that my RIA 1911 will knock the bullet back into the case if you keep trying to put it back in the barrel to many times. The .380 Hornadays HP's in my P3at have are made so this problem does not happen. I have seen some 9mm WWB target ammo push back also if chambered to many times.
What design feature in Hornady prevents this? I use Gold Dots exclusively. Not wanting to switch but curious if the design is shared.

[BEARDOG]

Not to be a wet blanket, but if recoil doesn't cause bullet setback then I highly doubt that chambering a round will. Scratches have no effect at practical effect on bullet accuracy.

Muggsy,
I wasn't going to post on this thread, as the question has been answered correctly, and I don't usually just parrot what other guy's already said.
But you seem to not believe that set back happens, and you are just wrong.

To try to save you from a dangerous mishap, that could harm yourself or others I took this pic for you. I hope seeing is believing. It does not always happen or even happen a lot, but it only takes one time to really do some harm.

This pic is of a factory .40 S&W Ranger T 165 gr. That was chambered in my XDM. It was not chambered repeatedly. When I took it out this is how far it had been pushed back compared to a normal one. Normal OAL is 1.120ish this one got pushed back to 1.062.
As .40 S&W is a high pressure cartridge already, I will not even fire this one for range ammo.
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/PA180257.jpg

[Rainman48314]

Muggsy,
I wasn't going to post on this thread, as the question has been answered correctly, and I don't usually just parrot what other guy's already said.
But you seem to not believe that set back happens, and you are just wrong.

To try to save you from a dangerous mishap, that could harm yourself or others I took this pic for you. I hope seeing is believing. It does not always happen or even happen a lot, but it only takes one time to really do some harm.

This pic is of a factory .40 S&W Ranger T 165 gr. That was chambered in my XDM. It was not chambered repeatedly. When I took it out this is how far it had been pushed back compared to a normal one. Normal OAL is 1.120ish this one got pushed back to 1.062.
As .40 S&W is a high pressure cartridge already, I will not even fire this one for range ammo.
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/BeardogV1/PA180257.jpgAny type or manufacturer less prone to this phenomena?

[MW surveyor]

Thanks for the photos beardog. I was too busy this morning to get out the camera, take a few photos, post, etc.

[BEARDOG]

Any type or manufacturer less prone to this phenomena?

I am not really sure of a specific brand Rainman. Sorry

Here is some info that you may find interesting. It will help explain types of crimping, cannelures, etc. And why they are used.
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/crimp.

[Popeye]

From what I can see on the Hornadays or at least appears to be is that the back end of the bullet that goes into the casing is a little smaller in dia. than the part of the bullet that sticks out the front of the casing,forming a sort of step if you will and not letting the nose of the bullet be pushed back into the casing. I've had 45 cal Lawman FMj's push back into the casing. It has never happened to the 45 cal Hornadays Hp's or the 45 Golden sabers that I've shot. I'm not saying this happens with the more expensive ammo like Hornadays or Federal Premium HST +p rounds in 9mm either . At least I've never seen it happen with those those brands,but I'm not saying it couldn't happen either. We should always remember these rounds are mass produced and with that comes different tolerences. I have seen it more than once with cheaper practice ammo. This is just another good reason I guess to use a good quality brand name round for your defensive needs especially if your going to be loading and unloading your guns on a daily basis. Just my .02

[Rubb]

Any type or manufacturer less prone to this phenomena?

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5688

[Popeye]

Well that sounds like four brands that we know of that seem pretty good

Hornaday
Remington Golden Sabers
Speer Gold dots
Federal Premium HST's
I'll admit I have wondered if the particular design or contour of the feed ramp has anything to do with it from brand to brand. For example My PM9 although it does chamber the round everytime it does seem to be a little jerky doing so when I compare it to my CZ75B a much bigger pistol that seems to sent them home smoothly and with very little effort. :confused:
FWIW, I never put a round in the chamber unless it came from the mag. Our Company Commander in boot camp would have had our head on a plate and JMB's pride and joy shoved up our *****if he saw us do that.:eek:

[340pd]

Not to be a wet blanket, but if recoil doesn't cause bullet setback then I highly doubt that chambering a round will. Scratches have no effect at practical effect on bullet accuracy.

Multiple chamberings of a round, especially a handloaded round, can definitely cause setback of the bullet. It is a wise idea to check the OAL of rounds that have been chambered and hand ejected multiple times. No loader, be it factory or handloader, makes 100% perfect rounds. I may chamber a round a couple of times and visually check for length and rotate the round to the bottom of the magazine or throw it into a range ammo box. Just my 2¢

[JFootin]

There is a solution. Quoting OldLincoln from this post: http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=102244&postcount=73

"Extractor and Placing Round in Chamber:
Anyway, I cleaned it up and polished the forward sloped face of the extractor very well and rubbed TW25 into it. Why?? To see if I could lay the slide against a chambered round and have the extractor slip around it. Worked like a charm. I just nuzzle it up there and easily push it forward with very little pressure and it just opens up and swallows the rim. I don't recommend doing this with a mag release type action, but fail to see how my thing can injure the extractor.

So you say, why do this? I'd rather do that than rack a round then drop the mag and top it off. It's simple and quick and hopefully harmless. Also, it eliminates the wear and tear on repeatedly chambering the same round."

[SD976]

Always a round in the chamber, never a doubt, no need to "rack a round"....

[jmurch]

I have a p220 by the front door, another in the garage and another in the nightstand. I know they're loaded.

[Rainman48314]

http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5688Thanks. I feel much better.

[CarlCyrus]

Wow, I learned something I hadn't thought I would with this thread. I was only interested in the daily discipline of ensuring the pistol was "condition one."

Guess I'll have to rethink my actions. Will probably start doing the pinch test.

Carl

[yatyas42]

Well I feel dumb, I have years of military/lawenforcement firearms training and I have never heard of this. I can't believe how much I have learned from this forum in my short time reading it. Thanks to all of the wisdom givers. I am accepting this as fact, but for the sake of argument....Beardog shows his damaged round that was only chambered once. That leads me to believe his firearm probably does it somewhat frequently and he doesnt realize it, and the round functions fine. I will only chamber my rounds once from now on, just in case though.

[OldLincoln]

Hi Carl... May or not fit in with your setup, but I have a Nano Vault a keyed lockbox with a cable wrapped around my heavy bed frame. I keep my house pistol in it chambered and ready to go. It's keyed with the key on my car key ring. I unlock the box at night leaving the key in place. I can't leave in the car if I don't remove the key the next morning and so lock it then. Small kids don't get into it and big kids have to seriously try. If your big kids are a problem you need more safe or less kids.

Now I'll admit I don't do that much with no kids or grandkids during school season, but I do lock it and push it under the bed when going for a time.

[340pd]

It is ok to chamber them more than once. Just check the ejected round and measure the overall length compared to a fresh factory round. Some guns are harder on cycled ammo than others. I never drop a round in the chamber and then close the slide on that pre- chambered round. I think that is a bad practice for a lot of reasons.

[OldLincoln]

As far as setback, some do and some don't. I have extra strong recoil springs on my PM9 and have re-chambered Federal HST +P 147gn many times and checked it several times and it hasn't budged. My particular box may be set tougher, who knows, but you can't really trust it, so check it to find if it happens.

[BEARDOG]

Well I feel dumb, I have years of military/lawenforcement firearms training and I have never heard of this. I can't believe how much I have learned from this forum in my short time reading it. Thanks to all of the wisdom givers. I am accepting this as fact, but for the sake of argument....Beardog shows his damaged round that was only chambered once. That leads me to believe his firearm probably does it somewhat frequently and he doesnt realize it, and the round functions fine. I will only chamber my rounds once from now on, just in case though.

You make a good point, and one I have thought about too.
I just did a little test. I tried another round out of the mag I keep loaded in the XDM. I measured it before and after racking it in and did it 2x in a row with no change in OAL. I then dug out a brand new box of Ranger T 165gr. picked one out at random, measured it, then racked it in 2x. It did not change OAL either.
So with that, I don't think it is a repetitive problem with this gun or this ammo. I think/hope it was just a fluke and doesn't happen when firing the gun. I will check the next time I take it to the range after a couple cycle through during live fire.
Like I said it doesn't happen all the time but it is something you must watch for.

[Barth]

Tried to read previous posts but didn't make it - LOL!

Over the years I've settled on sleeping with my loaded S&W 342 ti.
Laying on a white hand towel with it's XS Systems Big Dot glowing.
It's quite comforting....
Don't tell her but the S&W 640-1 may take her place after I get the action job.
And have a stainless trigger, Eagle Secret Service grips and XS Big Dot installed.
Looks like I have specific taste when it comes to my girls right? LOL!

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo10/40/6d/2f91bc77e62d__1310338634000.jpeg

[tv_racin_fan]

Did you measure with a caliper? Some rounds seem to move more than others and it might take a while before you can really notice any difference using a MK1 mod 2 eyeball. :D

Oh but of course I used a fancy digital caliper and calibrated it before the measuring... I measured several rounds out of a brand new box and chose those which measured the same for the test.

LOL!

After ten reloads I stopped, noticed that all those rounds had extractor marks easily noticed. Now I feel the rounds after ejecting them and if they have noticable markS they go in the range box.

[yatyas42]

Bear dog, thanks for taking the time to test that out. I find the whole very interesting. I am definitely going to keep a closer eye on my rounds.

[Russ]

Get a low profile Gunvault. I have a 45 XD 13 round ready at all times. In 3 seconds in the dark I can have access right from my bed. When I recently traveled to California it fit perfectly under the front seat of my Honda Accord and I had all my cash safely secured. I bought the box on Amazon for $80. Peace of mind with children and always got a chambered full size 45 and enough room to store a loaded cm9. I never mess with racking. Keep it loaded in a Gunvault and forget about it.

[knkali]

Wow I have been traveling a lot lately and having to take my rnds out and have gun checked by TSA before flights, then plut the same rnds back in and racking. I have done this enough times to know that several of the rounds have been rechambered. I better chk em and then burn them up at the range. I learned a lot here. Thanks to all.

[HDoc]

Get a low profile Gunvault. I have a 45 XD 13 round ready at all times. In 3 seconds in the dark I can have access right from my bed. When I recently traveled to California it fit perfectly under the front seat of my Honda Accord and I had all my cash safely secured. I bought the box on Amazon for $80. Peace of mind with children and always got a chambered full size 45 and enough room to store a loaded cm9. I never mess with racking. Keep it loaded in a Gunvault and forget about it.

Do you secure it with a cable?

[muggsy]

I would like to know how many of you check for bullet set back every time you chamber a round? It seems to me that the practice would definitely be detrimental to rapid fire. Yes, bullet setback can occur, but it is a very rare occurrence with quality ammunition. If it's a concern to you only chamber a round once. The only time in my 50 years of shooting that I experience bullet set back was after a misfeed. Bullet set back can also occur with rimmed straight walled ammunition in revolvers if the ammo isn't properly crimped and that ammo is chambered by hand.

[Michael W.]

I would like to know how many of you check for bullet set back every time you chamber a round? It seems to me that the practice would definitely be detrimental to rapid fire. Yes, bullet setback can occur, but it is a very rare occurrence with quality ammunition. If it's a concern to you only chamber a round once. The only time in my 50 years of shooting that I experience bullet set back was after a misfeed. Bullet set back can also occur with rimmed straight walled ammunition in revolvers if the ammo isn't properly crimped and that ammo is chambered by hand.

I think that you are making an absurd straw man argument.
No one in this discussion has advocated checking for bullet setback
for every single time a round is chambered.

This thread was in response to the OP who was ejecting and re-chambering
the same round every night as he put his gun on his nightstand, and then
later instead of chambering the round with the slide he was dropping a round in
the chamber then dropping the slide. He was asking the forum's opinion
if it was ok to do this.

The former practice MAY VERY WELL lead to bullet setback regardless what
ammo so the advice was to stop doing it. The latter practice MAY VERY WELL lead to a broken extractor so the advice was to stop doing it.

A few of us relayed how we dealt with it. Bullet setback may be a rare
occurrence but so are AD's, ND's, Kaboom's etc. But yet we drill
and practice safe gun handling and advise not to shoot range reloads
to prevent those rare occurrences. Advising folks not to repeatedly
chamber the same round goes into that same category of safe gun
handling.

Michael-

[OrlandoChuck]

When I come home from work, my CW9 comes off my hip and into the nightstand where I can reach it easily. Always have one in the pipe and a full mag. I think there is more of a chance of AD if you are constantly loading and unloading.

[JFootin]

I think there is more of a chance of AD if you are constantly loading and unloading.

That's one of the best statements I have seen on this thread. Keep it loaded and don't mess with it.

If there are kids at home or other people in the house at times that you have to worry about, put the loaded gun in one of those lock boxes with a cable attached to the bed frame, and shove it under the bed out of sight. But keep the gun loaded and treat it that way all the time. K.I.S.S.

If you want to dry fire or do anything at all with the gun, make doubly sure it is unloaded and put a snap cap in it.

[muggsy]

Michael,
I'm all for safe gun handling. Please send me any ammo that you have chambered more than once, if it's a safety concern for you. I'll dispose of it for you in a safe manner.
Muggsy

[Bawanna]

Goggles in place, have a surplus so I'm calling in an airstrike of flame retardant maranque. Taste good, feels good. Feel free to pig out and waller around in it. Biodegradeable and non fat too.

[muggsy]

Gentlemen,
I may be new to this forum but I'm not new to the world of shooting sports. I've been an avid shooter for more than 50 years. My father was a gunsmith. I've been a life member of the NRA since 1971. I have been reloading ammunition since 1975. During my fifty years in the shooting sports I have never seen a catastrophic failure of a firearm due to bullet setback. Most guns that fail do so, because of a double charge of gun powder, an overcharge of gun powder, or due to a bore obstruction. I'm not saying that bullet set back doesn't occur, but rather that it isn't the problem that it's portrayed as being. A 110 gr. 9mm projectile is quite a bit shorter than a 147 gr 9mm projectile yet both are seated to the same OAL. Obviously the 147 gr projectile impinges on the case more than the 110 gr projectile. In my experience deeper seating of bullets can and does raise chamber pressures, but not, in my opinion, enough to cause a catastrophic failure of a pistol. Rimless pistol cases are not crimped as they headspace on the case mouth. Having said that, the repeated chambering of a round is not a sound practice and should be avoided. I hope that this puts the issue to rest.

[Thunder71]

I just give mine a hug and a kiss goodnight and tuck it in.

[Bawanna]

No one is questioning your integrity, knowledge, or experience, I don't think muggsy. I know I'm not.

It seems to me we're all saying the same thing here. Rechambering a round over and over is not a good thing.

[Popeye]

I don't unload mine except for when I put them in the safe.

I'll admit that sometimes I give the round a quick looking at to see if it's set back. I'll also admit to emptying the mag and reloading it in no particular order to mix them up a bit from time to time. No big thing. I think part of the reason my RIA Gi 45 does it to Lawmans is because when you knock the slide release off or slingshot the slide that slide runs foward like a run away train.

[CarlCyrus]

Well the spring on my MK9 and PM9 are strong enough and the pistols are small enough that I need to "pinch" the searations on the back of the slide and pull it back a bit to check for the presence of brass being pulled out of the chamber.

The pistols are so small that there is no way in hell I'm going to get my fingers up near the muzzle of a loaded pistol. There is no "dust cover" like my 1911 Combat Commander. Therefore the only way I see to do it is from the rear of the slide.

This was a great thread...learned much more than I had anticipated.

Carl

[CarlCyrus]

This thread was in response to the OP who was ejecting and re-chambering
the same round every night as he put his gun on his nightstand, and then
later instead of chambering the round with the slide he was dropping a round in
the chamber then dropping the slide. He was asking the forum's opinion
if it was ok to do this.

The former practice MAY VERY WELL lead to bullet setback regardless what
ammo so the advice was to stop doing it. The latter practice MAY VERY WELL lead to a broken extractor so the advice was to stop doing it...
Michael-

I don't think I said I was placing a round in the chamber and closing the slide on it. I used to do that, until I learned that it could damage the extractor. But this thread was specifically about ejecting a round, reloading it into the mag and re-inserting the mag each night.

Carl

[OldLincoln]

Muggsy and Carl; Nobody questions your experience and Carl, your question was a good one. Folks may have a difference of opinion but aren't challenging anything.

Some forums are death about setback like it's the devil itself, so it gets repeated here and there. I've read threads with pictures of setback and had to wonder about it myself. I think one should occasionally look at rounds they re-chamber a lot just to check it's condition. If it's a normal load it should be okay in a Kahr even if it were to have higher pressure as they are built for that. I just want my first shot in a self defense situation to be a healthy one and so will look mine over.

[mywytefeet]

What Tucson said.

Goes to bed loaded, wakes up loaded... I know it's loaded, saves me from messing with it.


what he said.