Recoil Spring Life.

[Hognutz]

What is the life span of a recoil spring in a PM9? I know that Jocko has 32,000 rounds through his. How many spring changes has this gun seen? Do you just replace the spring, or the whole guide assembly, as well? Thanks, Mike

[Thunder71]

He should have about 45 old ones lying around (or tossed in the garbage) by now :)

I believe Kahr recommends between 700 and 1000 rounds for a self defense gun.

Me personally, I ordered one to keep as an SD assembly and the factory one I'll just keep using until it no longer functions properly (at the range).

[jocko]

i GO AROUND 2k BEFORE changing only the outter spring.. actually what Thunder stated is not a bad guide to go by. "shoot it umtil it starts to act up then change um. Kahrs dual recol springs are very durable. This is not a Rohrbaughg whgere they recommend 200 rounds and change um

[Thunder71]

I plan to cycle them...

New (SD) spring assembly will become my range assembly once the old range one wears out. This way I'll always have a new one on hand to keep in the gun (after a 100 round break in period) to make sure it functions well.

[MikeG]

How do you tell when they're worn out? I have a ten year old s&w .45 with around 5000 rounds through it and same factory springs (dual setup) and never a problem yet. Though I have three spares just in case... Only about two bucks each

[jocko]

some guns will let u know, some will not and your gun can take some unnecessary beating due to lack of spring changes. For two bucks, why test it??? recoil springs were never designed to be NEVER REPLACED. I am not targeting u but I can't see anyone bragging about "well I have 10K and never replaced them "

[Hognutz]

Can you buy, just the main recoil spring? In the parts list schematic, they show them as one part number. Maybe, if you call them they separate them? Mike

[Thunder71]

You can get them from Wolff (I think that's what the factory spring is anyway).

Just got my new one today and it seems like it's the wrong one :( The guide rod is too short, spring seems like the right length however.

Weird.

[jocko]

sounds like u got the recoil asembly for the older style blunt nose kahrs instead of the newer style beveled slides, which takes the longer assembly. The newer style has a 15 coil count where as the older style has the 13 count outter springs. neither will interchange.

[jocko]

Can you buy, just the main recoil spring? In the parts list schematic, they show them as one part number. Maybe, if you call them they separate them? Mike

kahr wants to rip u off to buy the entire assembly which is not needed. I have written to them about it and was told they would look into it. no doubt fell on deaf ears. When they only made the blunt noxe version slides, one could buy the outter springs from kahr and even from wolffs but no more. Wolffs right now does not make the outter recoil spring for the new style slides with 15 coils--sorry folks

maybe enough of u guys bit-h to kahr about this, they might listen up.

[Thunder71]

I have the short spring and the long rod (no long rod jokes please), guess I'm special. Last time I ordered the long spring version and it didn't work either.

9093A S/N IC45XX

[jocko]

did it come that way, I mean with the short spring on UR LONG ROD., short spring being 13 coil version. ne should never joke a bout a fella's long rod.

[MikeG]

some guns will let u know, some will not and your gun can take some unnecessary beating due to lack of spring changes. For two bucks, why test it??? recoil springs were never designed to be NEVER REPLACED. I am not targeting u but I can't see anyone bragging about "well I have 10K and never replaced them "

Wasn't bragging, just sayin' I honestly don't know what to look for to tell when it's time. Other than an old ruger .22 that smith is the only autoloader I've ever owned and I've never had to fiddle with or fix anything, it's always just worked. The only reason I bought springs is because I know they're supposed to be replaced every so often. What kind of failures do you get when they're worn out?

[Thunder71]

Yep, haven't messed with it. So now what? Hahaha.

Posted from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk.

[jocko]

shoot the fokker like u stole it!! Maybe kahr got smart!!!

naw, probably not.

[Thunder71]

Maybe it's the magic combo ;-)

As you can see, here is the new style recoil spring setup on the left from a previous attempt, and my setup on the right.

One on the left has 15 coils, one on the right has 13 coils, but the rods are the same length.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3015/5765092914_bc8eb84779_b.jpg

[Bawanna]

I should probably be ashamed of myself but I've never replaced a recoil spring on any of my auto's. I keep meaning to order one for all of them just in case but I never seem to get it done.
I had a Smith 4516 that I shot a ton, never replaced the spring.

I've replaced duty gun springs on a few here at work just cause the seemed really short compared to the one I used to judge that had taken the preset but I knew was still good.

I may pay someday but I've had no issues, and I look for unnecessary wear on the guns frequently. I don't shoot hot loads, with a 45 you don't need to.

I better start making a list and get some springs on hand or I'll be kicked to the curb for being stupid.

[yqtszhj]

I should probably be ashamed of myself but I've never replaced a recoil spring on any of my auto's. I keep meaning to order one for all of them just in case but I never seem to get it done.
I had a Smith 4516 that I shot a ton, never replaced the spring.

I've replaced duty gun springs on a few here at work just cause the seemed really short compared to the one I used to judge that had taken the preset but I knew was still good.

I may pay someday but I've had no issues, and I look for unnecessary wear on the guns frequently. I don't shoot hot loads, with a 45 you don't need to.

I better start making a list and get some springs on hand or I'll be kicked to the curb for being stupid.

No curb for you there chief. You can just be the control in our little experiment. It will all work out fine. :)

[jocko]

thunder: It would make sense the 13e coil uit would work in your new style slide bu the slide is .20 longer than the blunt nose version that uses the 13 coil as stock and which works fine by the way for insertion and shooting to.

I still think that the 15 coil is the proper set up even though some have a hell of a time inserting it. It does come factory out of the box with the 15 coil set up. IT SHOULD WORK, but as we know some seem not to. I would think cutting one coil down to 14 would even be a better trade off than the 13 coil. just my two cents on this. I just think the longer slide dictates a longer recoil spring to offset the length and absorb some of the slide enertia also..

course after reading bawanna factoids, I could be way off base on this and it just might not mean jack sh-t about the length or actual rounds down range either.

[ltxi]

I should probably be ashamed of myself but I've never replaced a recoil spring on any of my auto's. I keep meaning to order one for all of them just in case but I never seem to get it done.
I had a Smith 4516 that I shot a ton, never replaced the spring.

I've replaced duty gun springs on a few here at work just cause the seemed really short compared to the one I used to judge that had taken the preset but I knew was still good.

I may pay someday but I've had no issues, and I look for unnecessary wear on the guns frequently. I don't shoot hot loads, with a 45 you don't need to.

I better start making a list and get some springs on hand or I'll be kicked to the curb for being stupid.

Holy crap....you're old, you're a life long .45 gun guy, and you've never replaced a recoil spring? This is Twilight Zone and Ripley's Believe It Or Not material.

[Thunder71]

I thought the 9093A was the short nose and the 9093 was the long nose?

[jocko]

hell I forgot what the model numbers were. what do u have the blunt version or the tapered. Not sure what that A means even. 9093 is PM9.

If u look at the kahr webb site they still show the PM9 as the old style blunt nose version model 9093 stainless slide finish... The A on the end in their description category is not even listed as anything. Why the cojtinue to show the blunt ose picture that they no longer makes beat me but if u order a 9093 ur gonna get a beveled stainless finish slide PM9..

[Thunder71]

In that case it's the beveled version.


Posted from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk.

[JimC]

What is the life span of a recoil spring in a PM9? I know that Jocko has 32,000 rounds through his. How many spring changes has this gun seen? Do you just replace the spring, or the whole guide assembly, as well? Thanks, Mike

This is the answer that I received from Jay at Kahr CS when I asked this very question:

Good afternoon. Thank you for the question. If the firearm is used as
a carry weapon, we would recommend changing the recoil spring every
1200-1500 rounds or every couple of years (whichever comes first) as
preventative maintenance. If this firearm is just used for range use, we
would recommend changing it whenever you start to see failure to feed or
return to battery issues. I hope this information helps.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919

Also:

Good afternoon. We would recommend changing the entire assembly. I hope
this information helps.
sincerely,
Jay
Kahr Customer Service
508-795- 3919


Their response is good enough for me. ;)

[jocko]

naturally they will say the last part as they want that 25 bucks. very odd that in the beginning the pM9 and pM40 owners were once allowed to buy onlyt the outter spirng. IMO kinda shoot that saying square in the ass, but again what do I know. We old style blunt version PM9 and PM40 can still buy our outter ecoil springs from wolffs and by pass the $25 rip off. again just my 2 cents.

[MikeG]

Thanks for passing that email along!

[Thunder71]

$25 isn't unreasonable though, just the front spring alone is $9. I guess I look at it different and put it in terms of the fact that I'm carrying mine for protection and I don't want to take any chances when it comes to that. If that means I pay $25 every 2 years for a new recoil spring assembly, fine - I've wasted way more than that along the way.

[DJK11]

Just as I said here before, I now have over 2,500 rnds. on my new style slide PM9 USING the Wolffs 20.5# recoil springs with 13 coils and it has yet to malfunction.

Odd that now we hear of some 14 coil springs. Well, I don't think it's odd when the 13 coil works fine on my PM9.


Kahr CS says to cut the coils until the slide will lock back. I say trim an extra 1/4 to 1/3 coil to assure full slide movement.

if you remove the slide and clamp it site side down to a bench and pull the barrel forward while observing the recoil assembly. The outer spring will fully compress before the slide would be to the rear of it's travel in fire mode. If the outer spring is tooo long the slide won't lock back.

Now throw in a limp wrist, low power round or a long bullet and you have a malfunction.

[JimC]

$25 isn't unreasonable though, just the front spring alone is $9. I guess I look at it different and put it in terms of the fact that I'm carrying mine for protection and I don't want to take any chances when it comes to that. If that means I pay $25 every 2 years for a new recoil spring assembly, fine - I've wasted way more than that along the way.

Kind of the way that I look at it also.
I ordered two recoil assemblies from Kahr just to have in my parts inventory.
In fact, they should be here today.
When I was carrying my G27, I "rebuilt" it every two years no matter how much I didn't shoot it.

[Thunder71]

Got a response from Kahr:


Good morning. Thank you for the question. Likely your firearm has a
longer recoil spring that was trimmed at the factory to make disassembly
and reassembly easier. I would simply order the new style assembly and trim
it half a coil at a time until you no longer have an issue. I hope this
information helps and I apologize for any inconvenience.
sincerely,
Jay

My question is... why don't they sell the dang things to fit in the first place!? It's not like every PM9 using the 'new style assembly' is different.

[mightymouse]

Do what I did and ask Wolff to make the new springs. They said they would look into it.
I would think if they had enough requests they would start production.

[racuda]

Wolff has 18 and 20.5 pound spring. Which do you use?

[jocko]

Ihad let wolffs know about the slide change son the kahrs when they made the change. they were unaware of it and said back then they wold look into it. Been well ovber ayear, it takes themt ime to get things done but I think it will have to happen, for that is what kahrs is selling today, not a year ago.



racuda: I shoot the 20.5 recoil springs in my old style slide. please remember those springs that wolffs sells are ONLY MADE FOR THE OLD STYLE KAHR SLIDES.

Now here is what I have given some thought to lately. We have seen many cm9 owners who for some reason can't get kahrs factory recoil springs to work right and kahr has even snipped off a half coil on some tomake um work. I would think the wolffs 20.5
# recoil spring that is made for the old style slides would work just perfect in the new kahr slides. I would think this slight increase in poundage would well over come any shorteninbg of the coils from the old style tothe new style. To me would save a new style slide owner some nice vbucks to as he now has tobuy only the outter 20.5# recoil spring instead of paying over 25 bucks tokahr for the complete assembly that many hav eto shorten anyhow to make um work right. Think about it!!! does it make some sense here.

[Thunder71]

What is the inner spring for anyway?

[jocko]

captive dual recoil springs are needed for some of these small guns, and trying to make a one peace recoil spring for some of these guns would probalby make for a very stiff spring indeed. The innder spring does not take the beating the outter one takes. One can if he so desires change um both. I think I did that one time in all of my 32K rounds shot. forgot how many outter springs I have replaced. They are easy to replace and I think the gun itself will let one know if springs need to be changed. Kahrs recoil system is actually a very good and high quality system..

[Thunder71]

Yeah, I was impressed with it - I thought maybe the inner one was some sort of recoil reduction spring or something, but then I don't really know squat.

I'm going to exchange this 'old model kit' for a 'new model kit' and then keep that for carry purposes while only changing the outer spring for my range assembly.

There, I think that sounds friggin' brilliant.